Looking to buy a new SUV - any recommendations?

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:24 AM, Cameroni said:

 

I would say the Volvo is miles better than any Chinese car out there, but as you say fantastically overpriced.

 

And that's also for parts and servicing, just like the Porsche. Those costs are indeed ruinous.

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Volvo is a Chinese car, I don't think it's any higher quality that a BYD for example, it is different however and the spec can be higher.

[motdaeng]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:24 AM, Cameroni said:

 

I would say the Volvo is miles better than any Chinese car out there, but as you say fantastically overpriced.

 

And that's also for parts and servicing, just like the Porsche. Those costs are indeed ruinous.

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volvo is a chinese made car ... 5555

[Yellowtail]

So Toyota, Ford, BMW, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Mercedes, Mazda and Volvo are all Thai cars, got it. 

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:31 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Volvo is a Chinese car, I don't think it's any higher quality that a BYD for example, it is different however and the spec can be higher.

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Volvo is a Swedish car. Volvo Cars has managed to stay separate from Geely despite having its majority shares owned by this Chinese multinational corporation.

 

The specs of a volvo are definitely higher than on BYD cars.

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:42 AM, Cameroni said:

 

Volvo is a Swedish car. Volvo Cars has managed to stay separate from Geely despite having its majority shares owned by this Chinese multinational corporation.

 

The specs of a volvo are definitely higher than on BYD cars.

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It's made in China, it's a Chinese car.  The quality is no better than BYD though the specs may be higher

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:57 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's made in China, it's a Chinese car.  The quality is no better than BYD though the specs may be higher

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No, Volvo is not a Chinese car. It always was and today continues to be a Swedish car. Mercedes makes some cars in the USA, that does not make Mercedes an American car. Volvo cars are made in Sweden, and some, for the Asian market, are made in China, but according to Swedish designs and following directions from Sweden.

 

"Volvo Cars has managed to stay separate from Geely despite having its majority shares owned by this Chinese multinational corporation.

 

"This ownership structure has allowed Geely to support its resources behind Volvo’s global ambitions while enabling them to remain true Swedish brands at heart."

 

https://www.autocango.com/blog-detail/Volvo-cars-ownership-Geely-connection

 

Volvo is not the same as Britain's MG, which was completely transformed by the new Chinese owners. In the case of Volvo Geely is not a 100% owner and has decided to let Volvo act independently of the Geely brand. Volvo is very much separate from Geely.

 

Volvo cars are still designed and made in Sweden. Only models for Asia are made in China.

 

As you rightly observed, the specs on Volvos tend to be higher than on BYD cards, especially the safety specs. The higher specs, in my view, make Volvo better cars than BYD.

[Yellowtail]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:57 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's made in China, it's a Chinese car.  The quality is no better than BYD though the specs may be higher

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So Toyota, Ford, BMW, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Mercedes, Mazda and Volvo are all Thai cars as well, yes? 

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 4:02 AM, Cameroni said:

 

No, Volvo is not a Chinese car. It always was and today continues to be a Swedish car. Mercedes makes some cars in the USA, that does not make Mercedes an American car. Volvo cars are made in Sweden, and some, for the Asian market, are made in China, but according to Swedish designs and following directions from Sweden.

 

"Volvo Cars has managed to stay separate from Geely despite having its majority shares owned by this Chinese multinational corporation.

 

"This ownership structure has allowed Geely to support its resources behind Volvo’s global ambitions while enabling them to remain true Swedish brands at heart."

 

https://www.autocango.com/blog-detail/Volvo-cars-ownership-Geely-connection

 

Volvo is not the same as Britain's MG, which was completely transformed by the new Chinese owners. In the case of Volvo Geely is not a 100% owner and has decided to let Volvo act independently of the Geely brand. Volvo is very much separate from Geely.

 

Volvo cars are still designed and made in Sweden. Only models for Asia are made in China.

 

As you rightly observed, the specs on Volvos tend to be higher than on BYD cards, especially the safety specs. The higher specs, in my view, make Volvo better cars than BYD.

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Both Volvo & MG are Chinese cars.

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 4:50 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Both Volvo & MG are Chinese cars.

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No. Volvo cars continue to be Swedish cars. Designed in Sweden, manufactured in Sweden and to the extent they're assembled in China, manufacturing directions are emanting from Sweden.  Unlike MG, Volvo has scucceeded in retaining independence from Geely.

 

You can certainly say MG cars are now Chinese cars, as they have nothing in common with previous British MG cars apart from the badge, design and manufacturing are directred from China. This is not the case with Volvo.

 

When and if Volvo cars are ever designed in China and directions for manufacturing come from China, you can claim Volvo cars are Chinese cars. As of today Volvo cars very much continue to be Swedish cars. Even if a key shareholder is Chinese.

[Photoguy21]

Honda CRV. Reliable, cost around 1.6 million and lots of room inside

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 4:59 AM, Cameroni said:

 

No. Volvo cars continue to be Swedish cars. Designed in Sweden, manufactured in Sweden and to the extent they're assembled in China, manufacturing directions are emanting from Sweden.  Unlike MG, Volvo has scucceeded in retaining independence from Geely.

 

You can certainly say MG cars are now Chinese cars, as they have nothing in common with previous British MG cars apart from the badge, design and manufacturing are directred from China. This is not the case with Volvo.

 

When and if Volvo cars are ever designed in China and directions for manufacturing come from China, you can claim Volvo cars are Chinese cars. As of today Volvo cars very much continue to be Swedish cars. Even if a key shareholder is Chinese.

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Volvo has no experience with batteries or electric motors, do you seriously believe that is all Swedish?

 

Volvo's are Chinese cars.

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:06 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Volvo has no experience with batteries or electric motors, do you seriously believe that is all Swedish?

 

Volvo's are Chinese cars.

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No car in the world is "ALL" Swedish. Or "ALL" German. Or "ALL" Chinese. Or "ALL" Japanese". Every single car in the world contains components from various countries. Including Chinese cars.

 

However, Volvo cars are designed in Sweden, as before. The manufacturing direction and supervision comes from Sweden, as before. This is not the same case as MG. Geely has, smartly, allowed Volvo considerable independence to continue to retain the value of the Volvo brand. Volvo has retained independence from its Chinese shareholder which MG never had. 

[josephbloggs]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:57 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's made in China, it's a Chinese car.  The quality is no better than BYD though the specs may be higher

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Actually if we are talking second hand it probably would have been assembled in Malaysia (as mine was). I think it is only the BEVs that are made in China and the Malaysian factory has now been closed.

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:16 AM, Cameroni said:

 

No car in the world is "ALL" Swedish. Or "ALL" German. Or "ALL" Chinese. Or "ALL" Japanese". Every single car in the world contains components from various countries. Including Chinese cars.

 

However, Volvo cars are designed in Sweden, as before. The manufacturing direction and supervision comes from Sweden, as before. This is not the same case as MG. Geely has, smartly, allowed Volvo considerable independence to continue to retain the value of the Volvo brand. Volvo has retained independence from its Chinese shareholder which MG never had. 

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We will have to disagree on that.

 

MG's design team is in London, but they are still Chinese cars.  It's doubly true since they went plug-in Hybrid.  Polestar cars are also Chinese, though it's owned by Volvo which is owned by Geely.

 

Made in China, Chinese cars.

[josephbloggs]

  On 8/23/2024 at 3:23 AM, Cameroni said:

 

Totally agree, they are fantastic cars, well specced cars. It's just the pricing would put me off, since it's not just the purchase price, but also a review found that maintenance of a volvo was about 100 USD above normal rates. The Volvo now is overpriced and expensive to maintain. But yes, a good price for a used one is definitely worth a look.

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I can't tell you about servicing costs as I am still under the five year free servicing period. Ay my last service they even replaced all the brake pads for free which really surprised me as usually that is normal wear and tear and not covered under warranty.

Four years ago when I bought mine they were good value for money for the Thai market. Cheaper and much better specced than the equivalent BMW, Audi, Lexus etc. I've never been one to pay a premium for a badge.

But definitely now they are overpriced as are many of the other legacy marques. If buying new now I would only go Chinese, and I would only go BEV. BEVs don't work for everyone but they would suit my needs perfectly.

Anyway don't want to hijack this thread with irrelevant Volvo talk any more.

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:30 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

We will have to disagree on that.

 

MG's design team is in London, but they are still Chinese cars.  It's doubly true since they went plug-in Hybrid.  Polestar cars are also Chinese, though it's owned by Volvo which is owned by Geely.

 

Made in China, Chinese cars.

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MG cars are now indeed Chinese cars. 

 

"MG Motor cars were once engineered by SAIC at the Longbridge facility in Birmingham, UK. Longbridge was formerly home to Austin, British Leyland, Rover Group and, later, the MG Rover Group. Currently, most of the design, development and R&D takes place in China by SAIC Motor R&D Innovation Headquarters (SRIH)."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Motor#:~:text=MG Motor cars were once,R%26D Innovation Headquarters (SRIH).

 

However, this is very different in the case of Volvo.

 

Volvo's biggest factory is Torslanda in Sweden. It's main design studio is in Sweden, though it has design subsidiary studios in Camarillo and Shanghai.

 

It is completely FALSE to say all Volvo cars are made in China. The majority of Volvo cars are made outside of China.

 

https://www.motortrend.com/features/where-is-volvo-made/

 

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:33 AM, josephbloggs said:

I can't tell you about servicing costs as I am still under the five year free servicing period. Ay my last service they even replaced all the brake pads for free which really surprised me as usually that is normal wear and tear and not covered under warranty.

Four years ago when I bought mine they were good value for money for the Thai market. Cheaper and much better specced than the equivalent BMW, Audi, Lexus etc. I've never been one to pay a premium for a badge.

But definitely now they are overpriced as are many of the other legacy marques. If buying new now I would only go Chinese, and I would only go BEV. BEVs don't work for everyone but they would suit my needs perfectly.

Anyway don't want to hijack this thread with irrelevant Volvo talk any more.

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Yes, Volvo is still cheaper than the big BMW SUV, that's true. 

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:39 AM, Cameroni said:

 

MG cars are now indeed Chinese cars. 

 

"MG Motor cars were once engineered by SAIC at the Longbridge facility in Birmingham, UK. Longbridge was formerly home to Austin, British Leyland, Rover Group and, later, the MG Rover Group. Currently, most of the design, development and R&D takes place in China by SAIC Motor R&D Innovation Headquarters (SRIH)."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Motor#:~:text=MG Motor cars were once,R%26D Innovation Headquarters (SRIH).

 

However, this is very different in the case of Volvo.

 

Volvo's biggest factory is Torslanda in Sweden. It's main design studio is in Sweden, though it has design subsidiary studios in Camarillo and Shanghai.

 

It is completely FALSE to say all Volvo cars are made in China. The majority of Volvo cars are made outside of China.

 

https://www.motortrend.com/features/where-is-volvo-made/

 

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I never said all Volvo cars are made in China, though I'm fairly sure all those destined for Thailand are.

 

MG have a design team in London too, they designed the Cyberster there, it's still a Chinese car.

 

The Volvo cars sold in Thailand are Chinese, they may have been designed in Sweden but last time I checked, the Swedish end was run by a Chinese guy.

 

All Electric Volvo's are Chinese, would you dispute that?

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:30 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Made in China, Chinese cars.

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  On 8/23/2024 at 7:23 AM, JBChiangRai said:

I never said all Volvo cars are made in China

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  On 8/23/2024 at 7:23 AM, JBChiangRai said:

last time I checked, the Swedish end was run by a Chinese guy.

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The Global Head of Design at Volvo is a delightful Brit called Jeremy Offer. The CEO of Volvo is a Scottish chap called Jim Rowan. He succeeded Håkan Samuelsson in 2022. As for Volvo's board of directors, you can see they are almost all Swedish and listed here:

 

https://www.volvogroup.com/en/investors/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.html

 

Volvo's head designer, the guy doing the actual work, is Thomas Ingenlath. He's Swedish.

 

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/volvos-head-designer-explains-future-of-the-iconic-swedish-brand

 

  On 8/23/2024 at 7:23 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

All Electric Volvo's are Chinese, would you dispute that?

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Yes, I would. Volvo has shifted production of EV cars from China to Belgium. The reason was EU tariffs.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volvo-shifting-ev-production-belgium-evade-china-tariffs-times-reports-2024-06-09/#:~:text=Regulatory %26 Policy-,Volvo shifting EV production to Belgium,China tariffs%2C The Times reports

[vinny41]

  On 8/23/2024 at 7:23 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

I never said all Volvo cars are made in China, though I'm fairly sure all those destined for Thailand are.

 

MG have a design team in London too, they designed the Cyberster there, it's still a Chinese car.

 

The Volvo cars sold in Thailand are Chinese, they may have been designed in Sweden but last time I checked, the Swedish end was run by a Chinese guy.

 

All Electric Volvo's are Chinese, would you dispute that?

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Volvo build Electric cars in many diifferent countries not just China

Here an old article march 2022 where they announce production of EV in Malaysia

Volvo Car Malaysia Announced To Produce Its First Assembled Electric Vehicle (EV) In Malaysia

https://www.mida.gov.my/media-release/volvo-car-malaysia-announced-to-produce-its-first-assembled-electric-vehicle-ev-in-malaysia/

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 7:40 AM, Cameroni said:

 

 

 

The Global Head of Design at Volvo is a delightful Brit called Jeremy Offer. The CEO of Volvo is a Scottish chap called Jim Rowan. He succeeded Håkan Samuelsson in 2022. As for Volvo's board of directors, you can see they are almost all Swedish and listed here:

 

https://www.volvogroup.com/en/investors/corporate-governance/board-of-directors.html

 

Volvo's head designer, the guy doing the actual work, is Thomas Ingenlath. He's Swedish.

 

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/volvos-head-designer-explains-future-of-the-iconic-swedish-brand

 

 

Yes, I would. Volvo has shifted production of EV cars from China to Belgium. The reason was EU tariffs.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volvo-shifting-ev-production-belgium-evade-china-tariffs-times-reports-2024-06-09/#:~:text=Regulatory %26 Policy-,Volvo shifting EV production to Belgium,China tariffs%2C The Times reports

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Volvo are shifting some production of the EX30 and EX90 to Belgium.

 

Would it surprise you to know that the EX90 was predominantly designed in Shanghai?  I don't have the figures for the EX30 but I strongly suspect it was too.

 

You are clinging onto the hope that Volvo is Swedish, it isn't it's Chinese.

[Cameroni]

  On 8/23/2024 at 7:49 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

Volvo are shifting some production of the EX30 and EX90 to Belgium.

 

Would it surprise you to know that the EX90 was predominantly designed in Shanghai?  I don't have the figures for the EX30 but I strongly suspect it was too.

 

You are clinging onto the hope that Volvo is Swedish, it isn't it's Chinese.

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Sorry, I'm not Swedish. And I could care less if Volvo is Swedish, Chinese or Angolan. However, it is simply not true to say that Volvo cars are Chinese. They are not.

 

The head of design at Volvo, Thomas Ingenlath, is Swedish. Almost the entire board of directors of Volvo is Swedish. It's main factory is in Sweden. 

 

Volvo is not MG. Volvo has retained considerable independence from Geely. 

 

MG cars are Chinese. Absolutely. Volvo most definitely are not. They are conceived, designed and manufactured in Sweden to the largest extent, though some are made in the US, Belgium, Malaysia and China. But Volvo cars are still Swedish.

 

It looks like the excellent, and fantastically expensive EX90, costing 105,000 Euro and thus more than the electric BMW SUV, was designed by a team lead by Robin Page in terms of styling, who has since moved to Bentley, but Swede Tomas Ingenlath retained overall responsibility for the design of the EX90. Though clearly the Shanghai studio must have had some input, it is not clear if they played a leading role.

 

The EX90 is manufactured in South Carolina and China, that much is true.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

  On 8/23/2024 at 5:30 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

We will have to disagree on that.

 

MG's design team is in London, but they are still Chinese cars.  It's doubly true since they went plug-in Hybrid.  Polestar cars are also Chinese, though it's owned by Volvo which is owned by Geely.

 

Made in China, Chinese cars.

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So Toyota, Ford, BMW, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Mercedes, Mazda and Volvo are all Thai cars as well, yes? 

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 11:08 AM, Yellowtail said:

So Toyota, Ford, BMW, Honda, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Mercedes, Mazda and Volvo are all Thai cars as well, yes? 

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You raise an interesting point (repeatedly).

 

What makes a car Thai? or Chinese? or Swedish?

 

Is it ownership of the company? where it's designed? where the parts come from? 

 

Does it make a difference whether it's a CKD (complete knock down) or a full assembly?

 

In the case of Volvo, it's Chinese owned, designed partially in Sweden and partially in Shanghai. I don't have an analysis of where the parts come from but I suspect Thai models are mostly Chinese parts assembled in China.

 

In the case of MG, it's Chinese owned, designed partially in the UK and partially in China, in the Thai market the parts come from China where it's assembled.

 

How can one of these be Chinese and not the other?

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

  On 8/23/2024 at 11:16 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

You raise an interesting point (repeatedly).

 

What makes a car Thai? or Chinese? or Swedish?

 

Is it ownership of the company? where it's designed? where the parts come from? 

 

Does it make a difference whether it's a CKD (complete knock down) or a full assembly?

 

In the case of Volvo, it's Chinese owned, designed partially in Sweden and partially in Shanghai. I don't have an analysis of where the parts come from but I suspect Thai models are mostly Chinese parts assembled in China.

 

In the case of MG, it's Chinese owned, designed partially in the UK and partially in China, in the Thai market the parts come from China where it's assembled.

 

How can one of these be Chinese and not the other?

 

 

 

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You said: "Made in China, Chinese cars." . 

 

The Airbus A320 is made in China, Chinese aircraft, right? 

 

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 1:20 PM, Yellowtail said:

You said: "Made in China, Chinese cars." . 

 

The Airbus A320 is made in China, Chinese aircraft, right? 

 

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I may be mistaken, correct me if I’m wrong, but was I talking about Volvo cars or Airplanes?

[mogandave]

  On 8/23/2024 at 2:02 PM, JBChiangRai said:

I may be mistaken, correct me if I’m wrong, but was I talking about Volvo cars or Airplanes?

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We were talking about your claim that because something is made in China, it is Chinese. 

 

Sorry for the confusion, but you keep dodging the question and refusing to support your claim. 

[motdaeng]

  On 8/23/2024 at 2:43 PM, mogandave said:

We were talking about your claim that because something is made in China, it is Chinese. 

 

Sorry for the confusion, but you keep dodging the question and refusing to support your claim. 

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who owns volvo? isn't it that geely is the majority owner of volvo? and geely does have the final say (also business wise) ...

 

may we can agree, volvo is a former swedish car company owned since many years by the chinese geely holding group ...

[JBChiangRai]

  On 8/23/2024 at 2:43 PM, mogandave said:

We were talking about your claim that because something is made in China, it is Chinese. 

 

Sorry for the confusion, but you keep dodging the question and refusing to support your claim. 

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No, I never said "because something" is made in China, it's Chinese.

 

You're trying to turn something specific I said into a general rule.

[Ralf001]

  On 8/23/2024 at 4:59 AM, Cameroni said:

 

No. Volvo cars continue to be Swedish cars. Designed in Sweden

 

 

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MG cars continue to be British cars, Designed in Birmingham UK.