German State Elections

[maesariang]

5 minutes ago, mdr224 said:

Nationalism and ethnic superiority was what made them far right. Socialism is what made them far left

What has racism got to do with capitalism? Haven't communist leaders wiped out millions of ethnic minorities?

Edited September 3 by maesariang

[riclag]

1 minute ago, mdr224 said:

Nationalism and ethnic superiority was what made them far right. Socialism is what made them far left

Im talking present day , that sounds like the 30’s 40’s!

 

 

[norfolkandchance]

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

looks like maesariang will be the top poster in this one.

 

And on others.

[stevenl]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

Im not into German politics but this has gone unnoticed! <snip>

 

 

In respectable and reliable media it hasn't gone unnoticed at all.

[Cameroni]

6 hours ago, riclag said:

Im not into German politics but this has gone unnoticed! Your thoughts!
 

All three parties in Scholz's centre-left coalition suffered painful losses while the nationalist Alternative for Germany (AfD) and a new anti-establishment populist party booked record gains in the eastern states of Thuringia and Saxony on Sunday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germanys-scholz-worried-by-far-right-surge-regional-elections-2024-09-02/

 

 

 

This is clearly a protest vote, as evidenced by the fact that the nutjob BSW also got a fair number of votes.  Basically voters are so angry with the incompetent mainstream parties' never ending display of idiotic policies that they will vote for anybody but the Linke, CDU and SPD.

 

However, just as in 1929 the SPD, who won by far the most votes in Thuringia, was ignored leading to a backdor state government negotiated by politicians which included the NSDAP and therefore the first meaningful NSDAP participationg in state government, so will the AfD be ignored, as the CDU is already gearing up to form a coalition with anyone else but the party that won the most votes. So the AfD voters may as well have thrown their ballot straigt into the garbage. That's how much democracy is worth in Germany today.

Edited September 3 by Cameroni

[Lokie]

Is not gone unnoticed by Most Europeans... Across the continent people have had enough... May be unnoticed by Non Europeans who are not having the same ol BS Rammed down your throat daily by the MS politicians...

 

Charity begins at home... About covers the real issue

[Caldera]

7 hours ago, riclag said:

Im not into German politics but this has gone unnoticed!

 

Unnoticed by who?

 

Those results came in very close to pretty much all the polls done since the EP election in May. No real surprises. 

[Berkshire]

3 hours ago, maesariang said:

So you freely admit you don't know what capitalism is? 

 

Free market (opposed by Hitler)

Free speech (opposed by Hitler)

Freedom of religion (opposed by Hitler)

Freedom of expression (opposed by Hitler)

Lack of regulations (opposed by Hitler)

 

 

This headline pretty much contradicts all that you say....

 

[German far-right party wins a state election for the first time since the Nazis]

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-elections-far-right-rcna169139

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is clearly a protest vote, as evidenced by the fact that the nutjob BSW also got a fair number of votes.  Basically voters are so angry with the incompetent mainstream parties' never ending display of idiotic policies that they will vote for anybody but the Linke, CDU and SPD.

 

However, just as in 1929 the SPD, who won by far the most votes in Thuringia, was ignored leading to a backdor state government negotiated by politicians which included the NSDAP and therefore the first meaningful NSDAP participationg in state government, so will the AfD be ignored, as the CDU is already gearing up to form a coalition with anyone else but the party that won the most votes. So the AfD voters may as well have thrown their ballot straigt into the garbage. That's how much democracy is worth in Germany today.

 

If at first you don't succeed ....

 

There is a thread about the election in Thuringia elsewhere on the forum where this view is debunked.

 

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, maesariang said:

https://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Was-Socialist-NAZI-Socialism-Marxism-Socialism/dp/1942612176

 

In the unlikely event that anyone is interested, you may wish to know that the author has produced another colouring book (presumably to complement this one on his "Political Philosophy"?).

 

https://sandru.com/

[soalbundy]

9 hours ago, riclag said:

Im not into German politics but this has gone unnoticed! Your thoughts!
 

All three parties in Scholz's centre-left coalition suffered painful losses while the nationalist Alternative for Germany (AfD) and a new anti-establishment populist party booked record gains in the eastern states of Thuringia and Saxony on Sunday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germanys-scholz-worried-by-far-right-surge-regional-elections-2024-09-02/

 

 

Not unlike why there are protests in the UK, its all about immigration, the whole of Europe is sick of it and the established political class aren't listening so people will vote for extreme parties who will listen, they have no other reason to be voted in other than to stop illegal immigration.

[Cameroni]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Not unlike why there are protests in the UK, its all about immigration, the whole of Europe is sick of it and the established political class aren't listening so people will vote for extreme parties who will listen, they have no other reason to be voted in other than to stop illegal immigration.

Bizarrely they're also voting for parties that want extreme immigration, ie totally open borders, like the BSW.

[maesariang]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

This headline pretty much contradicts all that you say....

 

[German far-right party wins a state election for the first time since the Nazis]

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/germany-elections-far-right-rcna169139

Free market capitalists are they?

 

Nbc?

[soalbundy]

Just now, Cameroni said:

Bizarrely they're also voting for parties that want extreme immigration, ie totally open borders, like the BSW.

Yes, I noticed that but they weren't as large as the AFD, it just replicates the UK and else where, protests for and against immigration. I think in general people are just fed up with useless governments, inflation, financial hardship, falling energy security, high taxation, war and fear that the long held idea of the West's superiority is proving to be an illusion, even the much vaulted unbeatable Industrial might of Germany is faltering. To be fair to today's politicians it's a case of geopolitics rapidly changing, things have started to come apart in our comfortable world, even the Dollar has become suspect. I suspect this started with global warming, realization of poor demographics (what about my pension) and covid shut downs, we haven't recovered and the hope that things will get back to normal is fading.

[Cameroni]

14 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, I noticed that but they weren't as large as the AFD, it just replicates the UK and else where, protests for and against immigration. I think in general people are just fed up with useless governments, inflation, financial hardship, falling energy security, high taxation, war and fear that the long held idea of the West's superiority is proving to be an illusion, even the much vaulted unbeatable Industrial might of Germany is faltering. To be fair to today's politicians it's a case of geopolitics rapidly changing, things have started to come apart in our comfortable world, even the Dollar has become suspect. I suspect this started with global warming, realization of poor demographics (what about my pension) and covid shut downs, we haven't recovered and the hope that things will get back to normal is fading.

Indeed things seem to be coming apart in Germany. When the foundation of German prosperity, the German economy is lagging behind other countries like France, UK etc, I think that's the point when everyone realises that what has been done in Germany is leading the country into an abyss.

 

Covid lockdowns and the kneejerk reaction of Red, amber, Green to ban all Russian energy imports, while of course importing Russian gas through the backdoor from Belgium and Holland, all this has led to inflation. Many Germans are hurting.  Meanwhile the Jens Spahns of this world are fiddling while Germany burns.

 

VW has just announced it will embark on a redundancy program due to the inability to save the 5 billion Euro it thought it had to save to be competitive.

Edited September 3 by Cameroni

[maesariang]

Can someone list a few "far right" policies

[Cameroni]

AfD was initially founded as a liberal conservative party of the middle class,^[156] with a tendency toward soft Euroscepticism,^[157] being supportive of Germany's membership in the European Union but critical of further European integration, the existence of the euro currency and the bailouts by the Eurozone for countries such as Greece.^[158] At that time, the party also advocated support for Swiss-style semi-direct democracy, major reforms to the Eurozone, opposition to immigration, and opposed same-sex marriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

 

[Enoon]

Marxism, Nazism, Fascism are all "Collectivist" political philosophies.

 

Something that they have in common, probably their most unifying characteristic, is their hatred of Liberalism.

 

 F A Hayek describes their origins and their characteristics very well in his  book "The Road To Serfdom"

 

Liberalism is an "Individualist" political philisophy.......he makes that very clear.

 

Conservatism is also an Individualist philosophy.

 

There seem to be a depressing number of ignorant Americans who do not understand  what Liberalism means,  and how far removed it is from Collectivism........they, for sure, are the people who have "not done their research".

 

Show me a Liberal hater and I will show you a Collectivist.

 

Nazi, Marxist, Fascist, MAGAist.........they are all as bad as each other.

 

 

 

Edited September 3 by Enoon

[Enoon]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Not unlike why there are protests in the UK, its all about immigration, the whole of Europe is sick of it and the established political class aren't listening so people will vote for extreme parties who will listen, they have no other reason to be voted in other than to stop illegal immigration.

 

"they have no other reason to be voted in other than to stop illegal immigration."

 

Some people never learn.

 

 

[novacova]

13 hours ago, heybuz said:

Is this a joke.

Why a joke? Because you know that your ideology stems from Marxism and that reality frightens you perhaps?

[pacovl46]

23 hours ago, mdr224 said:

Things must be really bad there if voters dont mind germany going back to naziism. Its almost as if they dont have a choice

The eastern part of Germany is notorious for its right wing tendencies. So this doesn't come as a surprise to me. Having said that, 70% dis not vote right wing and it's the majority that rules. So there's that...

[stoner]

19 hours ago, maesariang said:

19 hours ago, riclag said:

So why are they called far right as opposed to the right?

 

Is it because they espouse Nationalism?

 

Anybody care to answer?

Is North Korea far right now? 

 

woah woah woah mister.

 

we here at the farm in NK categorically deny any involvement in your weak divisional society.

 

we stand united behind our dear leader. 

[riclag]

17 hours ago, Cameroni said:

AfD was initially founded as a liberal conservative party of the middle class,^[156] with a tendency toward soft Euroscepticism,^[157] being supportive of Germany's membership in the European Union but critical of further European integration, the existence of the euro currency and the bailouts by the Eurozone for countries such as Greece.^[158] At that time, the party also advocated support for Swiss-style semi-direct democracy, major reforms to the Eurozone, opposition to immigration, and opposed same-sex marriage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_for_Germany

 

This seems to be the most logical explanation of why the progressives 

are opposed to the far right advances.

 Opposition to eurozone’s immigrations  policies  imop.

It looks like they are  fed up with being part of the solution, to fix world humanitarian crises. A world in which refugees are welcome!

https://globalcompactrefugees.org/

 

https://civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu/what/humanitarian-aid/forced-displacement_en

 

[riclag]

14 hours ago, Enoon said:

Marxism, Nazism, Fascism are all "Collectivist" political philosophies.

 

Something that they have in common, probably their most unifying characteristic, is their hatred of Liberalism.

 

 F A Hayek describes their origins and their characteristics very well in his  book "The Road To Serfdom"

 

Liberalism is an "Individualist" political philisophy.......he makes that very clear.

 

Conservatism is also an Individualist philosophy.

 

There seem to be a depressing number of ignorant Americans who do not understand  what Liberalism means,  and how far removed it is from Collectivism........they, for sure, are the people who have "not done their research".

 

Show me a Liberal hater and I will show you a Collectivist.

 

Nazi, Marxist, Fascist, MAGAist.........they are all as bad as each other.

 

 

 

it aint the liberalism as much , its how the party of Liberals( JFK) have involved into Marxist activist!  Such as DEI and attempts of suppressing freedom of speech!

https://everyblm.com/marx-infects-diversity-equity-and-inclusion/

 

 

Your hero died in the 90’s.

30 years later i think he would be shocked to see the attacks on Freedom’s and the replacement  of tradition with DEI , Socialism and other left causes such as woke.

Section 1 was a good example .

https://press.uchicago.edu/books/excerpt/2011/hayek_constitution.html

Edited September 4 by riclag

[Cameroni]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

This seems to be the most logical explanation of why the progressives 

are opposed to the far right advances.

 Opposition to eurozone’s immigrations  policies  imop.

It looks like they are  fed up with being part of the solution, to fix world humanitarian crises. A world in which refugees are welcome!

https://globalcompactrefugees.org/

 

https://civil-protection-humanitarian-aid.ec.europa.eu/what/humanitarian-aid/forced-displacement_en

 

 

In a way the left knows that immigrants will mostly vote left. So it makes sense they support immigration.

 

For the same reason they support lowering the voting age to 16.

[PuiPuiHarry]

On 9/3/2024 at 12:36 AM, mdr224 said:

Things must be really bad there if voters dont mind germany going back to naziism. Its almost as if they dont have a choice

There is a H U G E distance between the Nazism phylosophy and the ideas of AfD. A   H U G E.

 

THE problem, because so many Germans vote for Afd, or French for Le Pen, of Dutch for Wilders of Italians for meloni, or... is the noin-integration of MILLIONS of Muslims,who came to our countries. Even in Hamburg there was a Muslim demonstration as they want to found a Caliphate in Europe, inclusive Sharia, so an Afghanistan / IS here. Second the killings my IS etc followers, living here for years.

 

But as usual, Americans do not have the slightest idea about these. That's why Trump can call Harris a Marxist.

[riclag]

1 hour ago, PuiPuiHarry said:

There is a H U G E distance between the Nazism phylosophy and the ideas of AfD. A   H U G E.

 

THE problem, because so many Germans vote for Afd, or French for Le Pen, of Dutch for Wilders of Italians for meloni, or... is the noin-integration of MILLIONS of Muslims,who came to our countries. Even in Hamburg there was a Muslim demonstration as they want to found a Caliphate in Europe, inclusive Sharia, so an Afghanistan / IS here. Second the killings my IS etc followers, living here for years.

 

But as usual, Americans do not have the slightest idea about these. That's why Trump can call Harris a Marxist.

Freedom to protest or freedom of speech is being used by the International Marxist and the pro Islamist extremist to the detriment of nationalists in every country its infected with forced migration or of the plight of humans being oppressed .

 

Here Marxist theories combine with the dominant cluster of theories in academic institutions in Western countries this century, critical theories. Critical theories are largely based on Marx's view that any struggle can be summed up as the oppressor versus the oppressed but add a dichotomous view in which once a person belongs to one of the camps, he is either an oppressor or oppressed. All the oppressed desires is equality, while the oppressor's sole desire is to preserve his privilege.

 

 

https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/05/15/what-is-the-real-motivation-behind-the-pro-palestinian-protests-on-campus/