Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[Danderman123]

7 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

What makes you think it isn't? This is the first year of the remittance change and nobody can file a tax return until next year.

I have yet to meet a bargirl who has a clue that such remittances would be accessible. Or a bar patron, for that matter.

 

And that brings us to prior earnings by bargirls, payable by bank transfer. Why aren't those taxable income?

[gamb00ler]

7 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'n a bit more optimistic in that, but I do see your point.  I think the TRD will recognize these accounts as self-directed pensions and that any income within the account isn't taxable. only distributions. 

The US/Thai DTA actually gives Thailand primary taxing rights on the IRA's and 401k's.  That's why I hold the opinion I do.  Thankfully, so far TRD has not taken advantage of that clause.

 

I think the Thai gov't/TRD are unlikely to formulate regulations that confer tax deferment status to foreign accounts.  First they would have to understand all the details and probably not just for a single country.

[Danderman123]

5 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I'n a bit more optimistic in that, but I do see your point.  I think the TRD will recognize these accounts as self-directed pensions and that any income within the account isn't taxable. only distributions. 

If we live in a world where TRD has insight into undistributed income within foreign bank accounts, we're dead any way.

 

You guys are living in a dream world where Somchai down at the local TRD office is an international tax expert.

 

BTW, let me know when Somchai discovers million baht remittances to bargirls in the village.

 

[gamb00ler]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

 

BTW, let me know when Somchai discovers million baht remittances to bargirls in the village.

 

We're counting on your passion about these circumstances to diligently follow up on it.

[ukrules]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I have yet to meet a bargirl who has a clue that such remittances would be accessible. Or a bar patron, for that matter.

 

And that brings us to prior earnings by bargirls, payable by bank transfer. Why aren't those taxable income?

 

All that matters is what the RD thinks and the fines they impose down the road.

 

Uneducated morons or not - if it's owed and they decide to come after it then they will pay one way or another.

[Danderman123]

13 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

All that matters is what the RD thinks and the fines they impose down the road.

 

Uneducated morons or not - if it's owed and they decide to come after it then they will pay one way or another.

I suspect that TRD will fine someone prominent in the hopes that the publicity will provoke compliance.

 

But I don't see TRD scrounging up bank records for Bob in the village.

[Danderman123]

22 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

We're counting on your passion about these circumstances to diligently follow up on it.

I will be happy to post news about bargirls who are required to file  a tax return for their million baht income streams.

 

Just don't hold your breath, since this goes under the category of Things That Will Never Happen.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, FruitPudding said:

 

What did you mean? Can you formulate a clear sentence for once?

You already have my original post as well as an explanation after. I can explain, but it´s your job to understand it. My job is done.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my sentences. Right now it looks like 15 people have no problem understanding my post, and you seem to be the only one that have problem with it. Also, you are hooked on it. Now, go get yourself a hobby, and you will see how great your life will be.

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

You're scaremongering without any basis in fact or current reality, you're hypothesising to scare people. Why do you care, you've already said you won't be tax resident.

The reverse is true:

 

You are describing these new tax proposals as both inevitable and sure to be enforced. That is scaremongering.

 

My position is that they will be enforced rarely and mostly for high profile cases. So everyone can take a chill pill.

[motdaeng]

18 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

My position is that they will be enforced rarely and mostly for high profile cases. So everyone can take a chill pill.

 

it might be enforced rarely, but personally, i wouldn’t take it lightly if i committed tax evasion, even if i am only low-profile case.

 

i prefer to follow the rules, and i’m confident it will pay off. the past 20 years in thailand confirms me that this is the right approach for the next 20 years ...

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

51 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

If we live in a world where TRD has insight into undistributed income within foreign bank accounts, we're dead any way.

 

You guys are living in a dream world where Somchai down at the local TRD office is an international tax expert.

 

BTW, let me know when Somchai discovers million baht remittances to bargirls in the village.

 

 

I don't think it is likely that the TRD will seek to tax undistributed income within US IRA and 401k accounts, although I don't think there is anything in the US-Thai DTA that expressly precludes it. I think it is technically a possibility, but I don't see it as likely. But who knows?

 

I tend not to underestimate the capabilities of the TRD if they want your money, Somchai or not. I have heard people who have been audited say that the Thai tax net isn't very wide, but it is very deep.

 

I think that the TRD has the ability to obtain transaction data from the BoT with respect to inward foreign remittances. Somchai won't find anything, but the TRD computers might. But I don't think the TRD has the resources or perhaps the political will now to chase bargirls upcountry with foreign remittances. 

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

it might be enforced rarely, but personally, i wouldn’t take it lightly if i committed tax evasion, even if i am only low-profile case.

 

i prefer to follow the rules, and i’m confident it will pay off. the past 20 years in thailand confirms me that this is the right approach for the next 20 years ...

I presume you are filing a tax return in Thailand, and have for 20 years.

 

But....

 

 

You don't work in Thailand, and

 

Remittances haven't been taxable until now, and 

 

Therefore, the only reason to file a tax return is because you are receiving interest in a bank account sufficient to warrant filing a tax return to try to get a refund.

 

Most people are not in that situation.

[Danderman123]

Just now, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I don't think it is likely that the TRD will seek to tax undistributed income within US IRA and 401k accounts, although I don't think there is anything in the US-Thai DTA that expressly precludes it. I think it is technically a possibility, but I don't see it as likely. But who knows?

 

I tend not to underestimate the capabilities of the TRD if they want your money, Somchai or not. I have heard people who have been audited say that the Thai tax net isn't very wide, but it is very deep.

 

I think that the TRD has the ability to obtain transaction data from the BoT with respect to inward foreign remittances. Somchai won't find anything, but the TRD computers might. But I don't think the TRD has the resources or perhaps the political will now to chase bargirls upcountry with foreign remittances. 

Great.

 

Then bargirls who are receiving remittances from their overseas boyfriends should be flagged by TRD, as you suggest.

 

Except, this is Thailand.

 

When I hear about bargirls being audited by TRD, I will file my tax return.

[BangkokHank]

7 hours ago, retarius said:

I'm a 179 dayer. A mate of mine that hates paying taxes and who pays no taxes at all, tells me I'm stupid, and that Thais cannot possibly tax income from abroad because they are too stupid. He's taking zero precautions. I just smiled. 

Better safe that sorry I say. I'm also 179 dayer this year, because I don't wish to file a tax return for 2024 taxes even though all the remittances made were from savings. For those that file a tax return this year, you do realise you are giving all of your details to the tax people here, which I think means they can question your taxes any time they wish to in the future.

I feel rather safe than sorry should be the policy here.  

I'm doing exactly the same thing. Technically they should not tax the money I remitted to Thailand this year because it was earned in past years. But how do I prove that to them? So I'm also opting for the "better safe than sorry" approach by spending less than 180 days in the country this year.

[connda]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If I 45 years old again, and was looking for a place to retire in 2025, it certainly wouldn't be Thailand.

Nor I.

[rastlin]

 

I think many people are in denial over this issue. And I can understand why. Who likes taxes?

 

Will Thailand implement a tax on worldwide income? I don't know. Could they? Absolutely. We just need to see if this legislation moves forward. It might, or then again, it might not. This is Thailand.

 

Will Thailand actually enforce the current law which already requires a tax return and tax paid on "assessable income?" I don't know. Could they? Absolutely. We will just need to see what happens as this tax year closes out. This is Thailand.

 

Collecting taxes is what governments everywhere do. If anyone thinks for a moment that if Thailand, or any other country, is unable through vigorous enforcement, audits, computerized data collection and other such modern tools to collect tax due and enforce whatever laws they have on the books, they are wrong. It can be done. But will Thailand actually do this? No one at this point, probably not even the Thai government, knows exactly how this will play out. This is Thailand.

 

But Thailand, like many countries, is hungry for revenue. Thailand tax revenue as a percent of GDP in 2023 was just 13.4%. Compare this to the US at 16.4% (2023) or the EU 19.8% (2021) and you can see why Thailand is looking to increase tax collection which is behind many other countries as a percent of GDP. Given this fact, various news articles, and change in rule interpretation regarding assessable income put forth last year, it seems likely that Thailand is indeed moving toward increasing their tax base and this will likely in some fashion or another, at some point in the future, impact foreign tax residents in some way.

 

If you are concerned about this, you should plan accordingly, now. In the next few years it is possible that the tax landscape could be very different to what it has been in the past.

 

Then again, maybe it won't change at all.

 

This is Thailand.

[lordgrinz]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If I 45 years old again, and was looking for a place to retire in 2025, it certainly wouldn't be Thailand.

 

If I could go back to 2015, I would have stopped my wife from going back to Thailand, and I wouldn't be in this mess. Though if she didn't go back, paying back half a million dollars to her Thai University for her degree would have been a ball-buster.

[Ben Zioner]

44 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Remittances haven't been taxable until now

You know that's plain wrong, any income remitted the year of earning has always been taxable. For instance anyone who got his pension transferred directly has always been liable to pay IT on that income. For that reason I have always "seasoned" my pension and continue to do so as RD 743 in ambiguous in that regard.

[Ben Zioner]

8 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If I 45 years old again, and was looking for a place to retire in 2025, it certainly wouldn't be Thailand.

Definitely not AFAIAC. Anyone thinking of retiring in Thailand now would have to be brain dead.

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

If it is a gift, it isn't taxable income to the bargirl.

If the bargirl is the spouse, mother or daughter of the remitter - yes.

But somehow I think,  these are not the typical cases.

 

In other cases, there must be a moral obligation for the gift, and it should be customary.  You could argue,  that gifts to your dek are customary in Thailand,  but the TRD would not appreciate you saying this. 

 

Money given to bargirls, as well as to freelancers with a day job, no matter remitted from where,  is taxable income. 

@Danderman123has a point here. 

Tomorrow I will apply at Soi 6, seems to be an easy way to avoid taxes. 

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I will be happy to post news about bargirls who are required to file  a tax return for their million baht income streams.

 

Just don't hold your breath, since this goes under the category of Things That Will Never Happen.

This bargirls thing is funny. May all lovers who send money to there country girls from abroad, should write on there transfer banking slips: Credit for sick buffalo. Or Credit for ill grandmother in hospital. Then it would not be taxable income. 😁 Easy.

[tomacht8]

10 minutes ago, Lorry said:

If the bargirl is the spouse, mother or daughter of the remitter - yes.

But somehow I think,  these are not the typical cases.

 

In other cases, there must be a moral obligation for the gift, and it should be customary.  You could argue,  that gifts to your dek are customary in Thailand,  but the TRD would not appreciate you saying this. 

 

Money given to bargirls, as well as to freelancers with a day job, no matter remitted from where,  is taxable income. 

@Danderman123has a point here. 

Tomorrow I will apply at Soi 6, seems to be an easy way to avoid taxes. 

To make it more spicy. Do not declare it as a gift, if the girl is not married with you. Declare it as a credit on your transfer slips.

Credits are not income. Credits are not taxable. 

[Lorry]

5 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

This bargirls thing is funny. May all lovers who send money to there country girls from abroad, should write on there transfer banking slips: Credit for sick buffalo. Or Credit for ill grandmother in hospital. Then it would not be taxable income. 😁 Easy.

In my home country, bar girls do pay taxes,  like everybody else who works. 

It doesn't matter at all whether the money they receive comes from abroad or not. If they receive a gift,  they don't have to pay tax on it (no conditions like "customary" etc, as in  Thailand - but the threshold is much lower than in Thailand)

My tax advisor in my home country also has clients who are bar girls.

[tomacht8]

10 minutes ago, Lorry said:

In my home country, bar girls do pay taxes,  like everybody else who works. 

It doesn't matter at all whether the money they receive comes from abroad or not. If they receive a gift,  they don't have to pay tax on it (no conditions like "customary" etc, as in  Thailand - but the threshold is much lower than in Thailand)

My tax advisor in my home country also has clients who are bar girls.

Yes, in Europe this applies to professional sex workers who also have social insurance and can also deduct the costs of their profession, such as room rent, advertisements and lubricants, from their tax burden. But Thailand is not yet ready with legalization. Prostitution is still banned in Thailand and the activities are not recognized as professional job. Due to morale, it will probably take decades for Thailand to get there. That the TRD will put tax on illigal activities will not happen.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

 

If it is a gift, it isn't taxable income to the bargirl. If it is for "services rendered" then it would potentially be taxable income to the bargirl. I have no idea how the TRD would determine the latter.

 

If the the funds are remitted from abroad by someone who is tax resident in Thailand, then the funds may be taxable income for the remitter depending upon the source of funds, timing, etc. 

Great.

 

When the bar girl files her Thai tax return, she can indicate she received big money as a gift.

 

Oh, wait. She never filed, despite TRD allegedly having access to all overseas remittances.

 

Unless you are aware of bar girls filing taxes.

 

Editorial note: for some reason we get a lot of comments in the Thai tax topics that are disconnected from the real world, particularly about TRD auditing capabilities.

 

Thailand can't enforce helmet laws for motorcycles, let alone complicated tax laws.

[Danderman123]

7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes, in Europe this applies to professional sex workers who also have social insurance and can also deduct the costs of their profession, such as room rent, advertisements and lubricants, from their tax burden. But Thailand is not yet ready with legalization. Prostitution is still banned in Thailand and the activities are not recognized as professional job. Due to morale, it will probably take decades for Thailand to get there. That the TRD will put tax on illigal activities will not happen.

But remittances from overseas should be easily monitored, and TRD won't care how the money was earned.

 

In that world where Thai tax laws are enforced.

[tomacht8]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

But remittances from overseas should be easily monitored, and TRD won't care how the money was earned.

 

In that world where Thai tax laws are enforced.

Right. So if you declare your money transfers as a credit, then it isn't taxable. 

[Rob Browder]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:12 PM, CharlieH said:

even if that income is not brought into Thailand.

I predict this part will not happen.  It would drive out everyone but pensioners, who are protected by double-tax treaties, in the case of most. 

[Rob Browder]

1 hour ago, BangkokHank said:

Technically they should not tax the money I remitted to Thailand this year because it was earned in past years. But how do I prove that to them?

For proof, provide a list of your investment-valuations / account-totals as of Dec 31, 2023.  Anything you bring in up to that limit, starting from Jan, 1 2024, until you have remitted all of that sum, is not taxable.

 

Edit: unless they start taxing income not remitted.

[Danderman123]

13 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Right. So if you declare your money transfers as a credit, then it isn't taxable. 

Great.

 

All my remittances from the US to my Thai bank are credits, so I owe zero in taxes.

 

What's a credit?