Don’t kill the golden goose! Tax reforms may drive away expats

[webfact]

File photo courtesy: Triaster

 

Thailand's potential tax policy changes could have a significant impact on expatriates and investors

 

A new proposal from the Thai Revenue Department seeks to tax both Thai and foreign residents on their worldwide income, regardless of whether that income is brought into Thailand.

 

Currently, only income transferred into Thailand is taxed, with the new regulations set to take effect in January 2024.

 

A prominent law firm network with a presence in the USA and Asia has strongly opposed this proposal.

 

They argue that taxing worldwide income would deter investment in Thailand and that the Thai Revenue Department lacks jurisdiction to control assets outside the country. Implementing such a drastic policy change would require a formal amendment to Thai law, which is a complex process.

 

Finance Minister Pichai Chunhavajira, at the Shaping Tomorrow summit, suggested that personal and corporate income tax rates in Thailand are higher than those in competing countries and might benefit from adjustments, reported Barry Kenyon for Pattaya Mail.

However, he did not address the issue of worldwide income taxation for residents. No government spokesperson has yet endorsed or commented on the proposal, leaving the expatriate community uncertain.

 

There is speculation on social media that annual stay extensions might soon require income tax clearance in Thailand. This rumor has not been confirmed by the Cabinet or immigration authorities and could create issues for long-term visa holders who spend less than six months per year in Thailand.

 

Meanwhile, tourists might exploit new visa-exempt rules to stay beyond 180 days in a calendar year, complicating the tax landscape.

 

As the Thai Revenue Department works to enhance national tax income, the strong warnings against this proposal emphasize the need for a thorough discussion.

 

With many expatriates considering leaving and economic challenges looming, a comprehensive debate on the proposed tax changes is crucial.

 

-- 2024-09-11
 

 

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[zakalwe]

The golden goose is the stupid tourist, not the savvy expat.

[save the frogs]

5 minutes ago, zakalwe said:

The golden goose is the stupid tourist, not the savvy expat.

maybe tourists are smarter.

they extol the virtues of the country and get out before getting entangled in its problems. 

[norsurin]

30 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

maybe tourists are smarter.

they extol the virtues of the country and get out before getting entangled in its problems. 

Agree..i used to stay about 180 days before.Had a house.Now i dont owing anything and just rent or stay in hotel 3-4 months a year I dont take any chances about Thailand anymore.

[NemoH]

The problem is that the Thai government have never cherished or respected this golden goose.
 

Expats are a silent minority in Thailand that is totally ignored by Thai government except when it comes to taking money from us.. we are discriminated against in pricing, enjoy no benefits as citizens but yet we directly n loyally support the entire Thai economy with our consistent spendings from Bangkok to Issan.

By shrinking Expat spendings, the whole Thai economy will now have to depend on the whimsical, seasonal and unpredictable tourism where all other countries will be competing with them. This tax will be the government ‘robbing’ from the very same support from which Thai economy gets its support and the ultimate real losers will be the Thai economy n the Thai common folks. 
 

The immediate glee n greed for this tax will bring long term repercussions spread to the entire Thai economy. 
 

At the end of the day, it’s just another transfer of wealth n robbing from the spendings to be earned by the Thai common folks to the government.

Edited September 10 by NemoH

[FridgeMagnet1]

Ha ha, good lord. Describing the sad old soaks who retire to Thailand as the “Golden Goose”

Edited September 10 by FridgeMagnet1

[Homburg]

Thailand doesn't want the goose, only the golden egg.

[Ralf001]

14 minutes ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Ha ha, good lord. Describing the sad old soaks who retire to Thailand as the “Golden Goose”

 

Yes, very cringeworthy !

[Jonsin]

Well now…Im outta here til the dust settles…pay tax on my income in states…no deductions?…ouch…

[Ben Zioner]

28 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Yes, very cringeworthy !

Let him vent, ageism is the only ism left.

 

But aren't we glad we are Boomers, I would want to get old in 10  years..

[Johno57]

Obviously this has not been thought about in depth, and their was the idea of charging the tourist a small amount to enter the country which was dismissed as it might affect tourism, and now this idea will really hurt the common thai business as NO retired person will accept a double tax and make thailand home..

[nickmondo]

should listen to the lawyer that stated this.  he knows his stuff

not in a million years will Thailand be able to tax our worldwide income.

its just crap, and we should take no notice.

its just designed to create debate and give us ex pats something more to moan about

[bdenner]

Those of us that do our annual visa extensions by the book will be looking at what the dodgy visa agents and corrupt IO's will be doing to circumvent this BS.

[Shocked farang]

1 hour ago, norsurin said:

Agree..i used to stay about 180 days before.Had a house.Now i dont owing anything and just rent or stay in hotel 3-4 months a year I dont take any chances about Thailand anymore.

The same here, I just don't trust the government's greedy behavior towards farangs. 

[Badrabbit]

1 hour ago, FridgeMagnet1 said:

Ha ha, good lord. Describing the sad old soaks who retire to Thailand as the “Golden Goose”

What an idiotic comment from I dare say an idiot.

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

A new proposal from the Thai Revenue Department seeks to tax both Thai and foreign residents on their worldwide income, regardless of whether that income is brought into Thailand

Ridiculous policy

[Andycoops]

How the hell are they going to find out what your worldwide income is?

 

As a expat here.

 

If you have multiple bank accounts in multiple countries, like some people I know and you tell them you have 1 account in 1 country.

 

They have no way of knowing anything different.

 

Totally absurd.

[ikke1959]

They just realize this??? It is normal to see what they are doing and the impact of things when it is too late.. and than they want to turn it back which will never be able.. Tourism they have broken down several years ago already and look how they struggle to get it resolved now.. Now the tax is again a problem that they first do and when the expats and  retirees are gone they realize they had made a mistake but they can't correct it anymore and so there are many many other things they do by not proper investigation and thinking of consequences... I know several sold their house already and left the country and more will follow as i hear in the expat community last week... Myself I am considering too what to do 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

How the hell are they going to find out what your worldwide income is?

 

As a expat here.

 

If you have multiple bank accounts in multiple countries, like some people I know and you tell them you have 1 account in 1 country.

 

They have no way of knowing anything different.

 

Totally absurd.

Why not tell them you have no bank accounts outside Thailand?

If they were to ask (unlikely).

[WoodyKenny]

Oh it's on.. They just killed their future to Build and Buy housing. Gotta be more than 500 homes on the market for sale in Hua Hin area alone.  And to you that feel we don't pay our fair share. In 2022 alone Thailand Tourist brought in 1.2 TRILLION Thai Baht to the GDP.  Let's say you now as we don't contribute. I'm sure the Philippines or Vietnam would love that cash!   With a Failed system you get Greed...

[Badrabbit]

15 minutes ago, bdenner said:

Those of us that do our annual visa extensions by the book will be looking at what the dodgy visa agents and corrupt IO's will be doing to circumvent this BS.

16 extensions and all by the book, pay tax in the UK on my 3 small pensions, so they want to tax me again, unfortunately I'm not in the position to leave so I will have to do what they decide to do in the future, doubt I would be able to afford 2 tax bills.

Just done my new extension so I'm okay untill 2025.

I don't have any bank accounts in the UK only Thailand.

Edited September 10 by Badrabbit

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, NemoH said:

The problem is that the Thai government have never cherished or respected this golden goose.
 

Expats are a silent minority in Thailand that is totally ignored by Thai government except when it comes to taking money from us.. we are discriminated against in pricing, enjoy no benefits as citizens but yet we directly n loyally support the entire Thai economy with our consistent spendings from Bangkok to Issan.

By shrinking Expat spendings, the whole Thai economy will now have to depend on the whimsical, seasonal and unpredictable tourism where all other countries will be competing with them. This tax will be the government ‘robbing’ from the very same support from which Thai economy gets its support and the ultimate real losers will be the Thai economy n the Thai common folks. 
 

The immediate glee n greed for this tax will bring long term repercussions spread to the entire Thai economy. 
 

At the end of the day, it’s just another transfer of wealth n robbing from the spendings to be earned by the Thai common folks to the government.

Spending by Western expats is miniscule by comparison to the larger picture, many have an unrealistic view of our worth. By various estimates there are around 300k Western expats in Thailand as well as 2.7 million other foreigners, mostly from neighbouring countries. Some seem to think that just because a foreigner spends 100k a month and their Thai neighbour earns only 35k a month that it makes a difference to GDP or the national economy. At best that impact is only 3% of GDP and that is if all 300k leave tomorrow. Those people living in tourist ghettos such as Pattaya probably don't see that because they think they are in the majority, elsewhere the picture is very different.

[Luuk Chaai]

it seems to fit ...

 

What does see beyond your nose mean?

or not see beyond the end of your nose. to think only about yourself and your immediate needs, rather than about other people or wider and longer-term issues.

[StevieAus]

10 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

How the hell are they going to find out what your worldwide income is?

 

As a expat here.

 

If you have multiple bank accounts in multiple countries, like some people I know and you tell them you have 1 account in 1 country.

 

They have no way of knowing anything different.

 

Totally absurd.

You are correct most countries have legislation preventing the disclosure of information. 

I rightly have to go through a rigorous check list if I ring my pension fund in Australia.

I rang my Aus bank recently and was on speaker they heard my wife and said she had to leave the room while they spoke to me. 

That's why the income method for the retirement extension stopped most countries including  Australia wouldn't disclose the information for  Thai Immigration

[thailand49]

" Thought in Dept " 

Not happening in Thailand in my lifetime it begins and ends with Greed 🤑

[ukrules]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Spending by Western expats is miniscule by comparison to the larger picture, many have an unrealistic view of our worth. By various estimates there are around 300k Western expats in Thailand as well as 2.7 million other foreigners, mostly from neighbouring countries. Some seem to think that just because a foreigner spends 100k a month and their Thai neighbour earns only 35k a month that it makes a difference to GDP or the national economy. At best that impact is only 3% of GDP and that is if all 300k leave tomorrow. Those people living in tourist ghettos such as Pattaya probably don't see that because they think they are in the majority, elsewhere the picture is very different.

 

If I stayed in Thailand this year my Thai tax bill on global earnings would more than $400k USD if I remitted it all because I sold something of value which I got far cheaper many many years ago- there was zero chance I would pay that to them, so I left and became a non resident.

 

How many people in this kind of situation do you think will take avoidance measures? My guess is all of them.

 

Just selling a house in a country where there are zero percent gains tax on your main residence (many countries I believe) can make a liability on that capital gain in Thailand for the rest of your life if you don't plan it right and are a resident in the year it's realised, and that's under the current rules introduced on Jan 1 2024, never mind if the global taxation change comes in - that's infinitely worse for investors if that is ever enacted.

 

[Lopburikid]

23 minutes ago, bdenner said:

Those of us that do our annual visa extensions by the book will be looking at what the dodgy visa agents and corrupt IO's will be doing to circumvent this BS.

It hasn't even been passed through yet. This was proposed by a PM and a deputy PM who really didn't like farangs. They say it won't even be debated until the beginning of 2025, plus, there is quite a lot of opposition to is as it will effect Thais as well as foreigners. The PM of today and her family were always very farang friendly. So wait and see. As for the agents and IOs they will always find away round it.   

[KannikaP]

19 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I don't have any bank accounts in the UK only Thailand.

So where do either your monthly transfer, or your living expenses come from please?

Pension into a Thai bank directly?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, ukrules said:

 

If I stayed in Thailand this year my Thai tax bill on global earnings would more than $400k USD if I remitted it all because I sold something of value which I got far cheaper many many years ago- there was zero chance I would pay that to them, so I left and became a non resident.

 

How many people in this kind of situation do you think will take avoidance measures? My guess is all of them.

 

Just selling a house in a country where there are zero percent gains tax on your main residence (many countries I believe) can make a liability on that capital gain in Thailand for the rest of your life if you don't plan it right and are a resident in the year it's realised, and that's under the current rules introduced on Jan 1 2024, never mind if the global taxation change comes in - that's infinitely worse for investors if that is ever enacted.

 

You are not typical or average of the Western expat community.....you're special. 🙂

[chiang mai]

Just now, KannikaP said:

So where do either your monthly transfer, or your living expenses come from please?

Pension into a Thai bank directly?

Mine do, everything is paid directly to Thailand. I only use my UK account to receive monthly rent payments from my agent and pay HMRC any tax due,