Your Two Months Rental Deposit

[JimHuaHin]

I rented a high-end condo on Sukhumvit, Bangkok for 7 months (on a monthly basis agreement) back in 1997.  I informed the management 2 months in advance that I would be checking out on date x.  Upon checkout, the management informed me that they were waiting for approval from the owner to return my 2-months deposit, and would send me a cheque.  It never arrived.

 

I rented a house in Hua Hin starting about 11 years ago; about 5 years ago the house sold.  The new owner, a farang, from a small northern European country, who wanted to move into the house with his family, drew up a new lease permitting me to stay for a few months while I searched for new accommodation.  No damage was done to the house, and I paid for house cleaning upon departure.  The new farang owner claimed there was damage to the house facilities, which he could not identify (the house was in exactly the same condition when he inspected the house prior to purchase), so he only repaid half my 2-months deposit.

[J Branche]

Just Saturday my girlfriends Thai son contacted us about moving.  Stated the landlord did not fix a badly broken bathroom door and when the Air Conditioner was not cooling informed him to pay to fix it.

 

He stated it is common on cheap rooms for a Thai tenant to Not pay the last month' rent and then move out.

The landlord keeps only 1 month's rent and tenant considers the lost month of deposit as acceptable.

 

I informed him that Section 547 of Thailand Civil and Commercial code states "The lessor is responsible for reimbursing the lessee for any essential and reasonable expenses the have accrued."

 

I consider repairing a broken AC as a reasonable expense and informed him if it happens on future rentals to message the landlord, state the Code 547 and inform the landlord you will deduct it from the rent that is owed.

 

I also advised him to be careful when signing agreement. To check any statements regarding what the tenants obligations will be if something is broken, what amount a tenant may be expected to pay for a repair and at what level the landlord would pay.

[Hugh Jarse]

On 9/28/2024 at 8:00 AM, marin said:

What is your source for this statement? 

Just returned deposit to tenant after deducting a charge for professional cleaning. Many tenants in the past carry outa perfunctory clean only and expect new tenant to put up with that. Few do. And what about the tenant from hell?

[marin]

1 minute ago, Hugh Jarse said:

ust returned deposit to tenant after deducting a charge for professional cleaning. Many tenants in the past carry outa perfunctory clean only and expect new tenant to put up with that. Few do. And what about the tenant from hell?

Dont know as I was not talking to you. Was talking to Kool Karl. My wife and I own apartments as well. 

[Kinok Farang]

On 9/28/2024 at 8:00 AM, marin said:

What is your source for this statement? 

Common knowledge but of course it has never happened to you has it?

[marin]

7 minutes ago, Kinok Farang said:

Common knowledge but of course it has never happened to you has it?

I only rented 3 apartments in Bangkok, got my deposit back. My wife and I have had our house for 27 years and its well paid for. We have 18 units of apartments as well. 1-10 tenants who move out will have not cleaned well enough and be charged for cleaning.  

 

Decent people keep their apartment in good shaped, seems others dont.  Check you tenants well before renting to them. 

[Tropicalevo]

On 9/28/2024 at 12:16 PM, RichardColeman said:

The way round this is to tell your landlord when you intend to move out and ask them to come and inspect the property beforehand so you can put anything wrong with the house correct, then tell them to keep the deposit as the last 2 months rent - or simply do not pay it

All of the leases that we provide state that the rent must be paid within 7 days of due date.

Not paid? - evicted.

In 20 years, we have only held back the deposit once.

That renter still has an outstanding bill for items that were no longer in the villa as well as unpaid utilities.

I am not holding my breath for the payment of that bill.

[thesetat2013]

On 9/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, koolkarl said:

Apparently it is a national past time in Thailand for landlords to keep the 2 months deposit.  Has this happened to many of you and if so, what did you do?

My landlord tried this and even tried to make me pay for the last month on top of it. It is illegal to charge more than a months rent for damages. So your deposit pays for last months rent also. So when the owner asked for the last months rent, I refused quoting the contract. She tried to say i misinterpreted it but the local police read it in Thai the same as my interpretation. I had the police on my side which made me allowed to stay longer even though the owner kept the damage deposit

I would suggest a good translation of what the deposit entails. I would be sure your 2 months deposit is really half for last months rent and half for damages. And then expect to lose your damage deposit part. 

but if you are a patsy, let them take it all. That way they can continue to cheat foreigners on their deposits.

[JBChiangRai]

32 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

My landlord tried this and even tried to make me pay for the last month on top of it. It is illegal to charge more than a months rent for damages. So your deposit pays for last months rent also. So when the owner asked for the last months rent, I refused quoting the contract. She tried to say i misinterpreted it but the local police read it in Thai the same as my interpretation. I had the police on my side which made me allowed to stay longer even though the owner kept the damage deposit

I would suggest a good translation of what the deposit entails. I would be sure your 2 months deposit is really half for last months rent and half for damages. And then expect to lose your damage deposit part. 

but if you are a patsy, let them take it all. That way they can continue to cheat foreigners on their deposits.

Landlord can charge the full amount of the damages, even if they are 100 times monthly rental income.

 

I think you are referring to the advanced deposit, some landlords can only charge one month deposit, others can charge two months deposit.

 

The deposit is never to be used as the last month’s rent, that is breaking the terms of the lease.

[Kinok Farang]

1 hour ago, marin said:

I only rented 3 apartments in Bangkok, got my deposit back. My wife and I have had our house for 27 years and its well paid for. We have 18 units of apartments as well. 1-10 tenants who move out will have not cleaned well enough and be charged for cleaning.  

 

Decent people keep their apartment in good shaped, seems others dont.  Check you tenants well before renting to them. 

Sorry mate,i didn't realise you were talking from the landlords point of view.Seems like you have a fair decent business there.Nice one.

[thesetat2013]

11 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Landlord can charge the full amount of the damages, even if they are 100 times monthly rental income.

 

I think you are referring to the advanced deposit, some landlords can only charge one month deposit, others can charge two months deposit.

 

The deposit is never to be used as the last month’s rent, that is breaking the terms of the lease.

wrong.. Thai law says that not more than one months rent can be charged for damage deposit. Also wrong. The amount of deposit is dependent on the renter but, only one months rent can be placed for damage deposit. The other is for last month or first month rent. If the contract is different from this then the renter has issued an illegal contract and can be fought and won by the renter. I spent months with government agencies and the police over thai laws and the contract issued to me. How much have you checked?

If they charge 2 months advanced deposit. It must be broken down to first or last month rent and damage deposit. 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

wrong.. Thai law says that not more than one months rent can be charged for damage deposit. Also wrong. The amount of deposit is dependent on the renter but, only one months rent can be placed for damage deposit. The other is for last month or first month rent. If the contract is different from this then the renter has issued an illegal contract and can be fought and won by the renter. I spent months with government agencies and the police over thai laws and the contract issued to me. How much have you checked?

If they charge 2 months advanced deposit. It must be broken down to first or last month rent and damage deposit. 

Sorry but as I said before, only some landlords can only charge one month deposit. Specifically, those with 5 or more rental units.

 

Those with less than 5 units can charge 2 months deposit as the new law doesn’t apply to them.

 

I am advised by my lawyer, however you can get free here…

https://www.sunbeltasia.com/new-rental-laws-in-thailand

[G_Money]

Happened to me.  It is what it is.

 

A nice 2 br condo.  Not a guesthouse.

 

Not the first time.  I always received my deposit back as I “take care “.

[NicoBKK]

I did stay in three condos in 10 years and always got deposit back in full. They might keep some last month unpaid bills or if something is damaged (e.g. furnitures, walls, floors..), but usually refund.

[Metapod]

always got my deposit back but i don't think my current landlord will give it back as they have always been super difficult to deal with.

 

 

[koolkarl]

13 minutes ago, Metapod said:

always got my deposit back but i don't think my current landlord will give it back as they have always been super difficult to deal with.

 

 

Just apply your deposit for your last months rent and tell them to inspect the place the day you move out.  Can also offer to let them show the place for rent while you are there, provided adequate notice is given. Don't give in.

[Bill97]

1 hour ago, NicoBKK said:

always got deposit back in full

 

1 hour ago, NicoBKK said:

usually refund.

???

[wombat]

If they can get away with it it it is normal.

[Presnock]

On 9/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, koolkarl said:

Apparently it is a national past time in Thailand for landlords to keep the 2 months deposit.  Has this happened to many of you and if so, what did you do?

Nope, never.  We always leave any rental in at least as good as if not better than that  it was when we moved in.  I have also seen too many "after" videos in which the

landlords complained and agree that no refund was due yet amazing that so many that did leave the rental in horrible condition demand the refund.

[itsari]

On 9/28/2024 at 8:15 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

I stayed in one apartment for many years. There was certainly some repair to be done when I left. Was this normal use? Or am I responsible for the damage? I guess part/part.

I didn't pay the last month rent and didn't expect to get the deposit back.

 

I rented the next apartment for about 2 years. I returned it as good as I received it. I got my whole deposit back.

 

I guess in part it has to do with us and our attitude and in part with the owner. And then obviously possible damages.

If people behave like they have to fight the owner than they should not be surprised if the owner also fights.

 

In my case, with my second apartment, I cleaned it thoroughly and agreed with the owner when she will inspect it.

She inspected it and didn't find any problems. And then I asked her about the return of my deposit, and she agreed and deposited it to my account in the next days.

If I would have told her: I want my deposit back now, otherwise I won't even clean the place, then I guess she would not have returned the money. 

Any damage above general wear and tear then the renter is responsible for the cost of repairing.

Not paying the rent to be sure you recover your original deposit is not following your rental contract and could give you problems with a new rental contract as often a landlord will check with your previous landlord.

[cdemundo]

On 9/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, koolkarl said:

Apparently it is a national past time in Thailand for landlords to keep the 2 months deposit.  Has this happened to many of you and if so, what did you do?

Keep the deposits after you moved out?

No, this is not normal.

As others have said, my Thai landlord is very fair, very diligent about needed repairs.

 

[cdemundo]

On 9/28/2024 at 12:44 PM, ThaiFelix said:

Wow havnt you been lucky, certainly not the case among people I know and worked with nor a lot of the posts you read here.

People who have a good relationship with their landlord don't start threads on that fact.

 

[ricklev]

For more than ten years a group of renters in my condo used an agent located in the building for leases, maintenance, and paid the agent our rent.  Unfortunately, the owner a couple months ago claimed that the agent did not forward some money to her and claimed that the agent had no authority to collect the rent and therefore all of her renters needed to pay one month's rent for December rent which was not forwarded to her.  It was an absurd argument and demand.  The owner claims that for the last 10+ years she never noticed that only the agent was depositing money into her account.  

 

It was ultimately resolved without the renters paying (as far as I know) but not before spreading anxiety and anger to all her renters.  

 

I teach Thai agency law and business law at a university in Bangkok!  The law makes no difference to a landlord intent on keeping deposits and stealing money.  

[black tabby12345]

On 9/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, koolkarl said:

Apparently it is a national past time in Thailand for landlords to keep the 2 months deposit.  Has this happened to many of you and if so, what did you do?

 

2 Month's Rent as the Security Deposit.

Often heard common in Thailand.

But not in my case.

When I checked in at my apartment years ago,  that deposit was only 2000B(less than one month rent itself).

And even when the property owner collects 2 months on guests'  c/in, it is usually fully refundable on their c/out.

Unless any damages are done to the property.

Or any money is owed to the landlord.

While some places come with the condition it is not returned to the tenants if the tenancy period is less than 3 months(unsure how common this practice is).

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Any damage above general wear and tear then the renter is responsible for the cost of repairing.

Not paying the rent to be sure you recover your original deposit is not following your rental contract and could give you problems with a new rental contract as often a landlord will check with your previous landlord.

In theory you are right. But probably you know that this is a common way to do this in Thailand.

My ex-landlord could have asked that I pay the last rent. He didn't even ask.

 

And about renting a new place. It seems to me that in Bangkok there are lots and lots of places to rent. If a landlord found someone who wants to rent a place and has the two months deposit ready, then I guess very few will do a background check on the new renter first. That's just reality. 

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 9/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, koolkarl said:

it is a national past time in Thailand for landlords to keep the 2 months deposit...

I rented 4 apartments, condos or houses before eventually buying a house.  Only one landlord kept any of my deposits and that was only about 1/5, as I recall, so he could paint a wall behind the washer and dryer area.  I/we always left the accommodation as clean or cleaner than it was when I/we moved in.  So no, it's not a national past time.

[ThaiFelix]

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

People who have a good relationship with their landlord don't start threads on that fact.

 

That has no connection to my response? Sure that was meant for me?

 

 

[itsari]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In theory you are right. But probably you know that this is a common way to do this in Thailand.

My ex-landlord could have asked that I pay the last rent. He didn't even ask.

 

And about renting a new place. It seems to me that in Bangkok there are lots and lots of places to rent. If a landlord found someone who wants to rent a place and has the two months deposit ready, then I guess very few will do a background check on the new renter first. That's just reality. 

The landlord v tenant can become difficult when one side does not want to play fairly .

I appreciate your point how reality of renting can be .

It is best to know how the agreement is meant to work before deciding to break the agreement so you are aware of the possible consequences.

[cdemundo]

23 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

That has no connection to my response? Sure that was meant for me?

 

 

 

I was responding to this.

"Wow havnt you been lucky, certainly not the case among people I know and worked with nor a lot of the posts you read here."

 

Wasn't meant to be personal towards you.

I guess I wasn't explicit enough.

 

The point is there is a naturally occurring bias towards negative feedback on some issues.

People whose experience with their landlord was positive (or just as expected) typically don't post.

So naturally we can expect to see more negative posts.

 

 

 

[Umlungu]

On 9/29/2024 at 5:11 PM, thesetat2013 said:

My landlord tried this and even tried to make me pay for the last month on top of it. It is illegal to charge more than a months rent for damages. So your deposit pays for last months rent also. So when the owner asked for the last months rent, I refused quoting the contract. She tried to say i misinterpreted it but the local police read it in Thai the same as my interpretation. I had the police on my side which made me allowed to stay longer even though the owner kept the damage deposit

I would suggest a good translation of what the deposit entails. I would be sure your 2 months deposit is really half for last months rent and half for damages. And then expect to lose your damage deposit part. 

but if you are a patsy, let them take it all. That way they can continue to cheat foreigners on their deposits.

What you say is wrong. The local police agreeing with you is irrelevant - they are not the ones to adjudicate rental law and potential legal issues. It is the law - and you should spell this out in a rental contract - that 2 months rent as a deposit is a security deposit. It does not include any amount for rent (last month) or utility bills. It covers damage only, which, btw, can exceed the secure original deposit amount and can be recovered from the tenant as well. I had a tenant who stopped paying his utility bills two months out fromthe end of contract. This was deliberate as he might have known that the MEA onloy disconnects power supply after two unpaid bills. Unbeknown to the tenant, I was able to see his conduct on the MEA app. So, two months not paid, plus pro rate for last days not paid, breach of contract, entire deposit forfeited. He did pay the final month's rent , but it was late. Breach of contract. The place was a mess, and items were missing also. He demanded his full deposit back. He did not front up for a final handover, neither did his agent. Keys were not returned and kept back on his part as 'security'. He then went to the police who took a statement that he was now, 6 weeks after having left, willing to pay for 2 month's electricity. By that stage the place had been cleaned by me / contractor, new locks installed, new and happy tenants in the property (just going into their third consecutive year, a lovely young Thai couple, professionals). The original dirty, thieving and deceiving tenant was a US American. He forfeited his entire deposit.