Having kids when old

patman30 · October 5

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I personally think that too.... but wouldn't pass judgement on a 60 year old having a child, if they were financially stable, could provide solid education (international standards in Thailand), and were healthy and energetic... they'd be 80 when their child is 20 years old... thats not so bad.

yes, exactly this, 60 is fine providing there is a very good chance you will see 80
and you are very secure financially.

As for education....
my personal view from my own experience is schools slow down the learning process, and teach us to remember and repeat, more than to think for ourselves.
that is just my experience though, i dropped out of high school at 14, last employed at 25 and retired in my 30s
but that is not for everyone, and home schooling is not for every parent either.

richard_smith237 · October 5

8 minutes ago, patman30 said:

yes, exactly this, 60 is fine providing there is a very good chance you will see 80
and you are very secure financially.

As for education....
my personal view from my own experience is schools slow down the learning process, and teach us to remember and repeat, more than to think for ourselves.that is just my experience though, i dropped out of high school at 14, last employed at 25 and retired in my 30s
but that is not for everyone, and home schooling is not for every parent either.

I completely disagree - you maybe describing rubbish schools.

Its certainly different at top-tier international schools.

I agree that home schooling is not for any parent, its not for the vast majority of parents given the experiences I have with the standards and knowledge I see in others around me.

It could be argued that home schooling should be banned... (that depends on the available options though - home schooling could be a better option than sending a kid to the local temple school - but then going back to the UK and putting a child in a free school here is the better option).

I'm not an educated educator - I'd be doing my son a disservice attempting to 'home-teach' him Maths, English, English Literature, Biology, Chemistry, Physics etc... Though I was very strong in those subjects... I've never been 'taught how to teach them'.... I'd fail my son and thus have to rely on and defer to the professionals, just as my employers do me....

Edited October 5 by richard_smith237

Euroboy123 · October 5

I did the opposite, I was 24 when I fathered my first child with a 36 year old thai woman. Wasn't something planned and it was rough but it all worked put in the end.

Edited October 5 by Euroboy123

brianthainess · October 5

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Do dads really do that?

My dad never did, and I never have either.

Think you've never had kids and believing the Hallmark channel.

I have no Idea what the 'hallmark channel' is, I guess it's an American thing. So you don't wish your dad had been more proactive, I wish my dad had been, but he was always working.

brianthainess · October 5

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I completely disagree - you maybe describing rubbish schools.

Its certainly different at top-tier international schools.

I agree that home schooling is not for any parent, its not for the vast majority of parents given the experiences I have with the standards and knowledge I see in others around me.

It could be argued that home schooling should be banned... (that depends on the available options though - home schooling could be a better option than sending a kid to the local temple school - but then going back to the UK and putting a child in a free school here is the better option).

I'm not an educated educator - I'd be doing my son a disservice attempting to 'home-teach' him Maths, English, English Literature, Biology, Chemistry, Physics etc... Though I was very strong in those subjects... I've never been 'taught how to teach them'.... I'd fail my son and thus have to rely on and defer to the professionals, just as my employers do me....

I agree,

JAS21 · October 5

Hell NO … when my kids from my first marriage went to university I sold their beds and changed the door locks.

When I married my present wife … who is a Thai … she was 48 and I was 57, neither of us had any desire to have any more children …… that was twenty two years ago and our opinions haven’t changed …. Don’t do it ….

4MyEgo · October 5

7 hours ago, Celsius said:

'm 51, so still got some time to think about it, but I think that's the way to go.

I had my 1st child to my X wife when I was 37.

My 2nd child with my Thai wife when I was 49, the 3rd came along when I was 54, we had both agreed to have kids, albeit it, I was ageing, however wife is 20 years younger than me, and I am in a financial position to help them in life.

Kids provide you with a lot of joy, and a lot of headaches, for without kids, life would be pretty bland in my opinion.

Then came the dog, now that's another story, I can get rid of that, I think ?

My advice to you is, if your fit and active, that's a bonus, if you are financial, that's another bonus.

The rest comes as you age, aches and pains, and of course watching your funds deplete 🙂

Oh and having kids means you are restricted in doing a lot of things, that you wouldn't be restricted in doing if you didn't have kids.

Think long and hard, before you blow that load 🤑

Edited October 5 by 4MyEgo

JBChiangRai · October 5

2 hours ago, patman30 said:

i believe the the traditional family unit, The Male/father should lead and his wife support him while they both fulfil their roles

Fulfilling our roles is how we have historically had and raised children and if you’d asked me if this was the best way 30 years ago, I wouldn’t have been able to suggest any alternative.

I wasn’t a very present parent, initially I was climbing the corporate ladder and later building my own businesses. My wife was the same, she did what was required, but she wanted her own life too.

After coming to Thailand, a failed relationship left me with my partner’s 5 year old child. I wasn’t going to throw the child out of international school and walk away. I knew from the start that letting the child aged 4 live with us was a lifelong commitment whatever happened.

Second time around with kids, I did have the financial security to raise her and later her cousin. However, I also had the “ability“ to make my time available to put them first.

First time around, I didn’t have the “ability” to do that, and I didn’t want to, my priorities were business, wife, kids in that order.

Second time around, my priorities were kids, business in that order with a very heavy weighting on kids.

I got the kids up in a morning, fed them, got them to school. Picked them up after school, got them dinner and put them to bed.

I have been very much present and I think I’ve done a much better job than my wife and I did together when we had to fulfill our own roles.

I couldn’t even have understood that 30 years ago.

richard_smith237 · October 5

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

Hell NO … when my kids from my first marriage went to university I sold their beds and changed the door locks.

When I married my present wife … who is a Thai … she was 48 and I was 57, neither of us had any desire to have any more children …… that was twenty two years ago and our opinions haven’t changed …. Don’t do it ….

Really ?? ... thats quite sad.

The implication is that you cut ties with your children, but that may just be the character of your response lending to that assumption - I apologise if I'm mistaken.

My childhood bedroom is now my Sons room when we go back to the UK and visit my folks a couple of times per year.... my family home has always felt like my family home, both my Wife, Son and I have belongings and clothes there... its our home in the UK and always will be for as long as my Parents live there.

That said... I do have desire to have more children, as does my Wife as it was and still is so much fun the first time around..... But there is firm element of realism as we are now in our late 40's... and we both agree its a bit to late for more (thats just a personal perspective).

save the frogs · October 5

9 hours ago, Celsius said:

I am starting to think that maybe for a man it is a good idea to have kids in late 60's early 70's.

You get to spend your hard earned money on them without a care in the world. You get to see them when they are the cutest. They will keep your brain active because you want to be there for them and teach them new things. Hopefully you croak once they reach 15 years of age so the chances of them giving you heart attack or dementia at that age are low.

I'm 51, so still got some time to think about it, but I think that's the way to go.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

We've been brainwashed to have kids when we're younger and marry a woman the same age in the West.

Marry a younger woman and have kids when you're older, have savings, and can semi-retire to spend a lot of time with them in the most important years of their lives and development . As opposed to when you're younger and have to work all the time.

And really, it's ok if you croak when they're 16. They don't need you anymore.

I don't particularly like you, but on this issue we're on the same page.

john donson · October 5

what will the world be like when the woke snowflake generation of now will have kids...

richard_smith237 · October 5

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

We've been brainwashed to have kids when we're younger and marry a woman the same age in the West.

Have we really ??.... I thought it was the other way round... have kids later on in our 30's & 40's once our career has kicked off, compared to earlier generations when 20's was the age to start a family...

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Marry a younger woman and have kids when you're older, have savings, and can semi-retire to spend a lot of time with them in the most important years of their lives and development . As opposed to when you're younger and have to work all the time.

This might stretch back to the 'security' argument - are younger women really interested in older men if all other things are equal, i.e. is a self funding 25 year old woman really interested in a 50 year old male ??... he'd have to have looked after himself and have exceptional game !...

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

And really, it's ok if you croak when they're 16. They don't need you anymore.

No, its really not... Is a child's life not so much richer for having grandparents ?

Is early adulthood not so much more enjoyable when you can finally look at your parents, not as disciplinarians, tyrants, dictators or those who make the rules to be followed, but with an understanding of them as someone who has guided you so well though the narrows...

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I don't particularly like you, but on this issue we're on the same page.

Hearts and minds - classy !!!

richard_smith237 · October 5

3 minutes ago, john donson said:

what will the world be like when the woke snowflake generation of now will have kids...

..... the same as it was when the sweeping generalisation wannabe self appointed alpha generation had kids...

Do you not think generations before you were making sweeping generalisations and berating your generation for its perceived weaknesses ? and generations before that ???

Such narrow-mindedness... as if 'your generation' were the best ever and every onward generation is a step backwards....

riclag · October 5

When you get old & grey , toddlers make those grey hairs disappear!

Theres a special place in heaven for older bald headed guys who can put

up with the crying And whining!

I know one guy who let his young Thai

wife convince him to let her try to get pregnant! Him 60 her 38!His first kid her second!

The boy is a 6 year old hellion now and has divided the marriage!

He’s so unhappy , he gets falling down drunk every nite .He has no patience to be around the little terror as She yells don’t do that again , and again and again , as the youngest tears into everything.

Justmyopinion

Ben Zioner · October 5

7 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

The chances of a child having autism have increased worldwide but not because of age of a parent. 1 in 36 born now has autism, up from 1 in 44 not too long before.

The thing is that the definition of Autism has changed. Asperger is included. E. Musk is a case in point.

JAS21 · October 5

36 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Really ?? ... thats quite sad.

The implication is that you cut ties with your children, but that may just be the character of your response lending to that assumption - I apologise if I'm mistaken.

My childhood bedroom is now my Sons room when we go back to the UK and visit my folks a couple of times per year.... my family home has always felt like my family home, both my Wife, Son and I have belongings and clothes there... its our home in the UK and always will be for as long as my Parents live there.

That said... I do have desire to have more children, as does my Wife as it was and still is so much fun the first time around..... But there is firm element of realism as we are now in our late 40's... and we both agree its a bit to late for more (thats just a personal perspective).

Yes of course it was a ‘throw away’ comment. I very much enjoyed my children … when they were into judo took them everywhere …we lived in Kent and two years in succession took them to I think to Southport for a weeks special training. When they moved onto model car racing we even went to Whales two weeks in succession for them to compete in some competition. etc etc played squash with them …was even on their grammar school PTA committee.

Now my youngest ( born ‘75) lives in Adelaide, oldest (born ‘72) still lives in the UK, and in contact via LINE with them every week or two.

So done it and got the T-shirt …we left the UK for good in 2007 and have never been back. Now we do what retired people do …potter around the house … play golf normally three times a week … go away for a few days every two or there weeks …etc etc.

This time of the year we are normally in Chiang Mai golfing …gave it a miss this year though…..

So WTF would I want to do such a silly thing …………….

TedG · October 5

Some studies suggest that older parents may be associated with poorer child outcomes:

Cognitive ability

A study found that older paternal age was associated with poorer performance on neurocognitive measures and reading difficulty in children.
Adult health

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10233307/#:~:text=Again%2C very few studies have,replicating with larger%2C contemporary samples.

Children born to older or younger mothers have worse adult health, are shorter, and have higher mortality than those born to mothers aged 25–34.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881604/#:~:text=Consistent with prior literature%2C we,age up to age 45.

Children's feelings
Children born to older parents may feel different from peers with younger parents, regret having no siblings or living grandparents, and fear premature parental death.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10688717/#:~:text=Their main findings included that,premature parental death%2C (iv)

Children's expectations
Children of older parents may be expected to act much older than their actual age.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/people-were-raised-older-parents-031603226.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJm34lPmeaLi-xGyOw8yg1z3NFGxKwg_qQiGo9afEalF8vY5s7srxSZ6fLq-b5VDOrFcu_a-7w475gECO7HYM_KlZ0akSD4dIVYrxatmbUuxvTKNyUQ817ViGQjC2haOx0BC6puCk-rdIdk_C57kh4eqm8HTM3hCXa9uKG118M9M#:~:text=21.,meet them in the past."

patman30 · October 5

9 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I have been very much present and I think I’ve done a much better job than my wife and I did together when we had to fulfill our own roles.

i agree with your post, except this line where you contradict yourself trying to use my words
or maybe you misunderstood my point
but from my pov
first time around, you and your wife did not fulfil your family roles as you both were prioritising business over family

but you do reinforce the point i was making that young people are too busy with work
and waiting till in a better position can be beneficial to the child, no matter how you raise your child.

fredwiggy · October 5

8 hours ago, riclag said:

When you get old & grey , toddlers make those grey hairs disappear!

Theres a special place in heaven for older bald headed guys who can put

up with the crying And whining!

I know one guy who let his young Thai

wife convince him to let her try to get pregnant! Him 60 her 38!His first kid her second!

The boy is a 6 year old hellion now and has divided the marriage!

He’s so unhappy , he gets falling down drunk every nite .He has no patience to be around the little terror as She yells don’t do that again , and again and again , as the youngest tears into everything.

Justmyopinion

If he gets falling down drunk nightly obviously that's what he's always been, and maybe is the reason he can't discipline his child. Letting any child get over on you s wrong, especially at such a young age. You're the parent, they listen. Better to have your kids not like you into their adults years by doing the right things than raising someone who will be a narcissist and go out into the world thinking they are entitled , and hurt others. Patience surely goes away as we age, but the job doesn't.

mdr224 · October 5

18 hours ago, Celsius said:

I am starting to think that maybe for a man it is a good idea to have kids in late 60's early 70's.

You get to spend your hard earned money on them without a care in the world. You get to see them when they are the cutest. They will keep your brain active because you want to be there for them and teach them new things. Hopefully you croak once they reach 15 years of age so the chances of them giving you heart attack or dementia at that age are low.

I'm 51, so still got some time to think about it, but I think that's the way to go.

Not a good idea. I knew an old guy that had a daughter and he passed away when she was 6. Not a good way to start your life

richard_smith237 · October 6

11 hours ago, TedG said:

Some studies suggest that older parents may be associated with poorer child outcomes:

Cognitive ability

A study found that older paternal age was associated with poorer performance on neurocognitive measures and reading difficulty in children.
Adult health

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10233307/#:~:text=Again%2C very few studies have,replicating with larger%2C contemporary samples.

Children born to older or younger mothers have worse adult health, are shorter, and have higher mortality than those born to mothers aged 25–34.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3881604/#:~:text=Consistent with prior literature%2C we,age up to age 45.

Children's feelings
Children born to older parents may feel different from peers with younger parents, regret having no siblings or living grandparents, and fear premature parental death.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10688717/#:~:text=Their main findings included that,premature parental death%2C (iv)

Children's expectations
Children of older parents may be expected to act much older than their actual age.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/people-were-raised-older-parents-031603226.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJm34lPmeaLi-xGyOw8yg1z3NFGxKwg_qQiGo9afEalF8vY5s7srxSZ6fLq-b5VDOrFcu_a-7w475gECO7HYM_KlZ0akSD4dIVYrxatmbUuxvTKNyUQ817ViGQjC2haOx0BC6puCk-rdIdk_C57kh4eqm8HTM3hCXa9uKG118M9M#:~:text=21.,meet them in the past."

A valid points... but on the 'spectrum of life' there's a lot of 'whatabouttery' involved in those case studies... and far bigger factors are at play in the upbringing of a child than the single issue of age of parents.

Lacessit · October 6

Personally, I could not think of anything worse than fathering a child in my sixties or seventies. Having to deal with parenting a teenager when I could cark it any point in that period would be unfair on both of us.

I can understand people who want their genes to go on. Mankind probably won't miss mine, or theirs either if they don't procreate.

NanLaew · October 6

21 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

IMHO, before 30 is the way to go. My son was born when I was 29 and his mother was 25. Now, he is 28 and a new father. So I get to enjoy my retirement years spoiling my grandson. Not worrying about paying college tuition for my own kids. Basically, my wife and I can live a carefree life. Another bonus is that the great-grandparents can see their great grandson! They are in their late 70s and still active. What a great gift for their later years.

That's the "standard" model, where seeing the grandkids is pretty much limited to holidays and when you want to see them. Unfortunately for my mate who is retired in Malaysia, it also means being a 24/7 day-care center for his granddaughter AND the two dogs that his grown up married daughter and grown up divorced son are way too busy to look after.

My sister started her family rather late when she was around 40, and I recall my dad complaining, partly in jest, that being a grandparent would be more fun if he wasn't already the average age of a great-grandparent.

Then we had had our first boy when I was about 50 but with us living in Thailand, our visits were less frequent, less taxing but immensely rewarding for all of us. Dad passed away before the birth of our second boy when I was about 60, but I am sure he would still have enjoyed being a pseudo great-grandparent once or twice a year.

There's a lot to be said for your kids (grandkids, great-grandkids) keeping you young, but if I have timed this right, and the oldest boy behaves himself, I should just about dodge being a grandparent.

BritManToo · October 6

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Personally, I could not think of anything worse than fathering a child in my sixties or seventies. Having to deal with parenting a teenager when I could cark it any point in that period would be unfair on both of us.

I can understand people who want their genes to go on. Mankind probably won't miss mine, or theirs either if they don't procreate.

"Having to deal" sounds like you think looking after your children is a chore!

I've always had very well behaved kids with a minimum effort, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Hummin · October 6

Some fathers is great no matter age, and some is not,

To young, not good, to old not good, there is no good one standard only, but what's important, you lead with an good example, teach them the valuable lessons they need to be good examples themselves for their kids.

Patong2021 · October 6

23 hours ago, mokwit said:

The chances of them being autistic are high and they will likely experience the wrench of the death of a parent while still a child/young.

Stop with the thinking only about yourself and start thinking about the consequences for the children.

You are correct.

Some people will attack you for this common sense and factual statement, but you are right.

Birth defects are more likely with older parents because the parents DNA is more likely to be damaged and unrepairable.

As we age, the human body healing mechanisms slow down. More errors are likely to be made during cell reproduction. Sperm is more likely to be deficient and weak. Those are the facts that many will deny because to accept it is to accept their own mortality.

It is a gross act of cruelty to have a child and not be there when the child is growing. Most of the geriatric farangs who have kids are not in the best of financial situation which is a double whammy. Not only will they not be around to provide support and counsel, they won't be able to ensure that the child has a good start in life.

Lacessit · October 6

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

"Having to deal" sounds like you think looking after your children is a chore!

I've always had very well behaved kids with a minimum effort, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I take it as a responsibility. I enjoyed fatherhood at age 30, I very much doubt I would enjoy it now.

If you got lucky with your kids, good for you. It doesn't always turn out that way, it's a lottery.

BritManToo · October 6

47 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I take it as a responsibility. I enjoyed fatherhood at age 30, I very much doubt I would enjoy it now.

If you got lucky with your kids, good for you. It doesn't always turn out that way, it's a lottery.

Nah, almost every bad/wild kid has obviously 'wrong uns' as parents.

(from 10 years teaching in the very worst of UK council estate and mining town schools)

I only ever encountered one parent who wasn't obviously at fault, but she was a single mom which might have been the fault in itself.

I guess it's possible to have a bad kid with two good parents, but I never met one.

Edited October 6 by BritManToo

Hanaguma · October 6

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I take it as a responsibility. I enjoyed fatherhood at age 30, I very much doubt I would enjoy it now.

If you got lucky with your kids, good for you. It doesn't always turn out that way, it's a lottery.

Good Lord, we agree on something...time to buy a lottery ticket.

But you are right. Kids don't care about how much money their parents have, barring abject poverty. They crave time and energy. I could teach my son how to throw a football, how to tackle correctly, etc. We went on hikes and adventures and got filthy dirty. Being a father takes good health and time more than financial resources IMHO.

KhunLA · October 6

31 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Good Lord, we agree on something...time to buy a lottery ticket.

But you are right. Kids don't care about how much money their parents have, barring abject poverty. They crave time and energy. I could teach my son how to throw a football, how to tackle correctly, etc. We went on hikes and adventures and got filthy dirty. Being a father takes good health and time more than financial resources IMHO.

Yea ... they don't know the value, until out of Uni, and have to support themselves. Daughter realized now haw much living expenses are, now working vs parental support while in Uni. Since not local school, and needing housing, it added up.

Still cheap, western comparison, but more than most locals make a month. Best part, she appreciated the support, and tells me how she benefitted from it, vs her friends, who didn't have the extra opportunities of choices.

Now she values money, and understands finances. Little bi-atch knows she's #1 with me. Had a conversation recently on that subject. Asking how'd I do it, not realizing, I have a few more baht than she was going through while at Uni.

Little Bi-atch ... I know what growing up poor is like. Not for my kid ... no silver spoon for her, but no struggles either.

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