4 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

you need to learn to post Not assumption nor bs Facts are what is required or don't post just learn

I am very sorry that I did not sufficiently respect the dignity and wisdom of a 'Gold Member'. 
I vow never to contradict such a high-ranking member again!

There is no room in Thailand for law abiding business to operate, until Authorities do not consistently enforce laws and regulations.

There is no way companies, operating new, law compliant fleets of busses or trucks, can compete against companies operating 50-year-old vehicles, paid in ful, with no leasings to burden them, possibly illegally modified to further reduce the operating costs (such as doubling the number of CNG bottles installed on the vehicles).

 

It is ridiculous the focus on busses especially carrying school students, as if Thais are not killed every day by trucks losing their brakes (I saw firsthand such an accident in Bangkok: nobody got hurt because of the slow speed, but two cars were turned into wrecks), overloaded beyond reasonable, running on worn out tires, experiencing sudden catastrophic failures, or driven by drivers assuming illegal substances to withstand dangerously long work shifts.

 

I heard about some new absurd regulation proposals, such having an additional safety operator on each bus carrying children, or giving a safety demonstration before each trip (like airlines do before take-off), etc. All measures that have no equivalent elsewhere in the world and for a very simple reason: elsewhere in the world vehicles circulating on public streets are expected to be compliant with safety and emissions regulations.

If the cause of the fire that killed 20 students and three teachers really was a gas leak, the bus turned into a ball of fire at such speed that none, no young, no adult, no elderly, coud easily survive, no matter the evacuation training they may have received, and notwithstanding the presence of a "safety operator".

 

Freight and transport in Thailand are cheap. But the low cost of freight and transport in Thailand comes at the dear price of human lives lost, every single day, on the Thai roads. 

And the issue is not confined to transports only. There is almost no business that see a consistent enforcement of laws and regulation in the country. Legitimate businesses constantly face the unfair competition of businesses, which cut corners in order to keep prices low, at the expense of safety and of employees. 

 

It is time for Thailand to turn the page, if it really aspires to a place among the most advanced economies. 

31 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

Is that inside the passenger compartment itself?

 

Do bus drivers always drive the bus?.....or are they required to inspect each bus they get assigned to? I assume they are given the appropriate training to know what to look for during each inspection.

 

 

 

 

SAME bus...doh!!!

49 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Do bus drivers always drive the bus?.....or are they required to inspect each bus they get assigned to? I assume they are given the appropriate training to know what to look for during each inspection.

 

5 additional tanks, permanently installed on a bus, which has passed the mandatory inspection, are not comparable to a worn out tire, to a leaking air brakes pipe, or to a leaking fuel tank. How may a bust driver refuse to drive his employer's approved bus and hope to keep his job, especially in Thailand?

 

5 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

Will never happen, Culture needs to change

 

Culture really is the wrong word sometimes. I've seen more culture in my fridge at times! 

8 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

 

5 additional tanks, permanently installed on a bus, which has passed the mandatory inspection, are not comparable to a worn out tire, to a leaking air brakes pipe, or to a leaking fuel tank. How may a bust driver refuse to drive his employer's approved bus and hope to keep his job, especially in Thailand?

 

Everybody is picking on the Individual which is wrong  it is the collective People,  without a collective change in peoples attitude towards safety nothing will happen  its going to be hard but people should say NO that is unsafe not going to do that !! the government should help these people who say NO to unsafe practices its called backing them up  Normally it would be the unions, there has been nothing from the unions in regard to the bus fire very shame full

The blame for the deaths (murders) of those innocents must be and should be laid at the feet of corrupt officials  and the corrupt Keystone brigade, plus a  bus operator who ignored the regulations in a myriad of ways.

There is nothing more blind than those that do not want to see. It shouldn’t take a tragedy like this to wake up. 
Sadly things will never change. 
My heart goes out to the beautiful people who perished in an unnecessary incident caused by neglect. 

In other countries the transport minister would be held responsible but here the guy makes a grandiose statement such as this believing he’s fantastic. Shameful. 

6 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

I believe you mean a Culture war

 

 

Not a war.  Just a gradual change in people's attitudes and ideas about what is normal/accetable behaviour.

 

Even though we consider Western societies to be more advanced when it comes to safety, transparency and accountability, it wasn't always like that.

 

This is challenging for Thais, however, as non-accountability and non-criticism form such a central part of their customs and culture.  As I said in another comment, there would need to be a huge shift in the idea of what it means to be Thai and to live in Thailand for things like this to become a thing of the past.

18 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Not a war.  Just a gradual change in people's attitudes and ideas about what is normal/accetable behaviour.

 

Even though we consider Western societies to be more advanced when it comes to safety, transparency and accountability, it wasn't always like that.

 

This is challenging for Thais, however, as non-accountability and non-criticism form such a central part of their customs and culture.  As I said in another comment, there would need to be a huge shift in the idea of what it means to be Thai and to live in Thailand for things like this to become a thing of the past.

This gradual change could take generation by doing this it would still cost lives not that i am disagreeing with you but I can not see Thais doing this over a generations it need hard action now it does not mean to change any laws or protocols Thailand has be enforcing these by the government police and the unions. the unions have not said anything do not know how strong they are here but they can do a lot to ensure safety protocols are implemented  

48 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

without a collective change in peoples attitude towards safety nothing will happen 

 

I agree and I would say "without a collective change in people's attitude towards the rule of law nothing will happen".

As the Minister of Transport sinks into his Plush Armchair, Brandy Glass in hand, inside his 10 Million Baht home, Benz parked on the spacious Drive along with other high priced Cars owned by the Family, ask him what he is going to do about it and/or if he is going to lose any sleep over what happened !!

One thing needs to be done in very short order. Anyone in any position of management or supervisory status in that bus company, should be facing a 30 year prison sentence with no parole or any chance of early release. Anyone who took back handers to facilitate blind eye inspections, should be facing at least 20 years in prison. Make an example of these underhand schnides and it may possibly make others think twice.

8 minutes ago, Surasak said:

One thing needs to be done in very short order. Anyone in any position of management or supervisory status in that bus company, should be facing a 30 year prison sentence with no parole or any chance of early release. Anyone who took back handers to facilitate blind eye inspections, should be facing at least 20 years in prison. Make an example of these underhand schnides and it may possibly make others think twice.

And What does that achieve nothing there are men /woman behind them waiting there chance at the trough  need to take away the trough

 you have a hang them high attitude which will get you no where

6 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

And What does that achieve nothing there are men /woman behind them waiting there chance at the trough  need to take away the trough

 you have a hang them high attitude which will get you no where

Its nice to see them kicking for a minute or more though!

12 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

You can start with retraining your police force.

 

Cops turning a blind eye to violations is giving the wrong impression to road users. 

 

Minor violations like overloading, at times I see riding 4 on a motorcycle without helmets. 

 

Many times I see cops riding their white Nmax and PCX ignoring other riders breaking the law. 

 

 

100% correct! I commented similar on another post like this. You can make any law(s) you want, but they are worthless unless enforced. If this (and other accidents) had been in a western country, all who were involved would be going to jail immediately. So, in addition to consistent enforcement, the court system needs to be overhauled as well. There are minimal consequences for offenders, and everyone knows it. The justice system here is lengthy and complicated. The whole system needs to be trashed and started over. But sadly, that might never happen. 

15 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

100% correct! I commented similar on another post like this. You can make any law(s) you want, but they are worthless unless enforced. If this (and other accidents) had been in a western country, all who were involved would be going to jail immediately. So, in addition to consistent enforcement, the court system needs to be overhauled as well. There are minimal consequences for offenders, and everyone knows it. The justice system here is lengthy and complicated. The whole system needs to be trashed and started over. But sadly, that might never happen. 

all who were involved would be going to jail immediately. This is NOT true, even in western country' s their  is the process of Law which can take months or years  you need to stop posing bs

16000 inspections in 60 days.   No way

9 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

I don't think Thai people fundamentally even understand the value of road safety. They've been driving for decades and still can't figure out what a safe speed limit is and even how to enforce it. In my area we have cars doing 90km/hour in front of a university where girls are riding without helmets and trying to dodge speeding cars while doing U-turns. This is a totally reasonable situation in their minds.

 

If they haven't learned these ABC's of driving in decades I see no reason that they will ever change their attitude.

 

Yeah, I think they basically see using the road the same as we do walking.  Not requiring any great levels safety, care or attention, not really having to follow any rules or worry about where you are on the road, and if you have an accident - bumping into someone else or falling over - you just kind of think "Oh well, these things happen".

 

I imagine that changing Thai people's minds about driving, would be like if we in the West were suddenly expected to wear safety gear and start using speedometers and rear-view mirrors when we go for a walk.  We just wouldn't see the need for it and would find it mildly ridiculous.

Now the schools are supposed to be involved and make sure that only "properly inspected" buses are used for excursions! Isn't that the job of the official inspection offices of the government or the provinces or municipalities?! How is a school supposed to check that? Should future accidents then be attributed to the school's negligence? This is where the government's back and forth wrangling over responsibility begins...

34 minutes ago, Franky0815 said:

Now the schools are supposed to be involved and make sure that only "properly inspected" buses are used for excursions! Isn't that the job of the official inspection offices of the government or the provinces or municipalities?! How is a school supposed to check that? Should future accidents then be attributed to the school's negligence? This is where the government's back and forth wrangling over responsibility begins...

Schools are supposed to have an Occupational Health and Safety Officer   it would be his or her job to put together a Risk management Plan for the school and for each school trip conduct a Risk assessment of the trip. now what goes into Risk management Plan and assessment you can Google it as they can be a bit complicated,  you are taking the words " properly inspected" as a physical inspection, that is Not what is intended,  Risk management should be part of Every Job  It does save lives  

On 10/8/2024 at 8:54 AM, BangkokReady said:

Thai society would need to fundamentally change it's attitude towards accountability for anything like this to improve.

 

Thai people simply don't like to hold people/be held accountable for any wrong doing.  The standard is to not criticise anyone or point out wrong doing, quite the opposite in fact.

 

Until the culture of "not wanting to upset anyone in case something bad happens to you" changes, these things will keep happening.

You are exactly right. Until the culture changes then the road deaths won't change either.

 

The bottom line is a Thai people are happy with the death and Carnage that they experience every day and have no impetus to change. If loss of loved ones isn't enough then nothing will be.

Pessimistic, yes. Realistic, yes.

Additionally, the Transport Ministry has urged schools to ensure that buses used for field trips are checked by qualified inspectors.

 

Talk about "passing the book", Its now the school's job to ensure that the buses are now safe?

Roads being inanimate cause no failures ,. the FAILURES are in Enforcement by Inspectors, RTP, and other agencies concerned with Passenger Transportation. The failure of systematically checking on Transport Companies so they abide by the rules, and would lose licences to operate if even ONE mode of transport found to be illegal in any way.

Finally driver training it is apparent that many drivers are poorly trained in basic road safety and ways to deal with accidents including blown tyres. But then GOOD MAINTAINANCE  would ensure GOOD TYR ES are on ALL COMPANY VEHICLES. 

ROADS DO NOT FAIL, PEOPLE FAIL PEOPLE through INCOMPETENCE, CORRUPTION , GREED AND COMPLETE L;ASCK OF EMPATHY FOR THE TRAVELLING PUBLIC WHO PAY money to go from A to B safely.  

2 minutes ago, Frankie baby said:

Additionally, the Transport Ministry has urged schools to ensure that buses used for field trips are checked by qualified inspectors.

 

Talk about "passing the book", Its now the school's job to ensure that the buses are now safe?

read my post above  it should have been the schools job to conduct a risk assessment, and in that assessment the school is to assure the Inspectors were Qualified to do the Job, in other words check his or hers Qualifications   

On 10/8/2024 at 12:47 PM, Will B Good said:

 

 

Not jumping to his defence......but would the driver know about improperly retrofitted gas tanks or leaking gas tanks?

 

Initially he did run to get a fire extinguisher to try to put out the blaze....... before realising the enormity and horror of the situation....and then ran away.

I would think that before leaving a driver would check his vehicle for safety. But maybe that's just me being pedantic and, you know, safe!

19 minutes ago, Cereal said:

I would think that before leaving a driver would check his vehicle for safety. But maybe that's just me being pedantic and, you know, safe!

You are correct A normal driver in a western world would have done a Risk assessment before leaving the depot which would have included All safety equipment 

On 10/8/2024 at 7:54 AM, AndreasHG said:

5 additional tanks, permanently installed

 

One of these 5 wasn't permanently instaled, the one that came loose and caused the fire

“prompted questions about Thailand's road safety regulations and their enforcement”

hmmm…. sums it all up?