Window Seat for Sleeping.

[Keith5588]

I am confused after speaking with a friend.
I am a UK citizen, I have lived in Thailand for the past 7 years with my Thai gf. I have been and still am renting a house but next year I might consider buying a house.
If I bought a house + land 15 years ago for 4 million THB with a 30 year lease on the land. The 30 year land lease costing 1 million THB so the house value would be 3 Million THB. Let's assume house prices have stayed the same over the 15 years.  What is the situation if I wanted to sell my house now.
My friend said
1. I would probably have a land lease contract for 30+30+30 years.
2. The seller (me) would have to pay for a new land lease of 30 years.
3. If unable to obtain a new 30 year land lease I could not transfer the remaining 15 years of the land lease to a buyer. Basically I would be unable to sell it.
My thoughts
1. I think it is Thai law that a farang cannot lease land for more than 30 years. So these 30+30+30 years are not guaranteed. Also each time a land lease is renewed then there will be a fee paid to the land owner.
2. I guess the seller needs to pay for the new 30 year land lease simply because most houses prices advertised are for the house + a 30 year land lease.
3. I think I read that a land lease can be passed on but that was when I was writing my Thai Will and so it was a bit different. But I find it hard to believe that if I bought a house + 30 year land lease. If 1 year after buying it I wanted to sell it and the land owner would not form a new land lease contract with the buyer then I could simply not sell it. If I moved away then the only option would be to rent it out for 29 years?

4. Could I sell the house with the remaining 15 years land lease?  If so how much would it be valued at? Does anyone sell a house with less than a 30 year land lease remaining?
 

On a slightly different note I would now probably look to buy a house freehold, my gf buying the land freehold, plus have a Usufruct contract. If a house + 30 year land lease is being sold for 4 Million would you expect to pay more if you bought that same house freehold?

Any advice to clarify any of the about greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Keith
 

[Will B Good]

17 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

I am confused after speaking with a friend.
I am a UK citizen, I have lived in Thailand for the past 7 years with my Thai gf. I have been and still am renting a house but next year I might consider buying a house.
If I bought a house + land 15 years ago for 4 million THB with a 30 year lease on the land. The 30 year land lease costing 1 million THB so the house value would be 3 Million THB. Let's assume house prices have stayed the same over the 15 years.  What is the situation if I wanted to sell my house now.
My friend said
1. I would probably have a land lease contract for 30+30+30 years.
2. The seller (me) would have to pay for a new land lease of 30 years.
3. If unable to obtain a new 30 year land lease I could not transfer the remaining 15 years of the land lease to a buyer. Basically I would be unable to sell it.
My thoughts
1. I think it is Thai law that a farang cannot lease land for more than 30 years. So these 30+30+30 years are not guaranteed. Also each time a land lease is renewed then there will be a fee paid to the land owner.
2. I guess the seller needs to pay for the new 30 year land lease simply because most houses prices advertised are for the house + a 30 year land lease.
3. I think I read that a land lease can be passed on but that was when I was writing my Thai Will and so it was a bit different. But I find it hard to believe that if I bought a house + 30 year land lease. If 1 year after buying it I wanted to sell it and the land owner would not form a new land lease contract with the buyer then I could simply not sell it. If I moved away then the only option would be to rent it out for 29 years?

4. Could I sell the house with the remaining 15 years land lease?  If so how much would it be valued at? Does anyone sell a house with less than a 30 year land lease remaining?
 

On a slightly different note I would now probably look to buy a house freehold, my gf buying the land freehold, plus have a Usufruct contract. If a house + 30 year land lease is being sold for 4 Million would you expect to pay more if you bought that same house freehold?

Any advice to clarify any of the about greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Keith
 

 

 

Doesn't everything you have just written scream.....rent?

 

 

[rocketboy2]

Quote

1. I would probably have a land lease contract for 30+30+30 years.

 

 Lost interest at that point.

Good luck. 

[simon43]

A land lease contract for 30+30+30 years is 100% illegal and, from my knowledge of Thai law, the existence of such a written contract actually nullifies the complete contract, including for the first 30 years.

 

Rent!!

[MalcolmB]

Just buy house and land in a company setup.

 

Leasing is just a scam. They will want it back after 30 years.

[jvs]

You can buy a condo 100% in your name.That is one thing.

Yes you can buy a house in your gf name but how much do you trust her?

30+30+30 year lease,forget about that .

When you lease it will be harder to sell on.

Is your gf working?

Would you buy the house you are living in now?

 

[newnative]

       Your safest option if you want to own property would be to buy a condo in foreign quota.  Your name would be on the title deed and you would be the sole owner of the condo, with all that entails.   Foreign quota condos are often easier to sell, as they are seen as more desirable for a foreign buyer. This is especially true if foreign quota becomes full in a project, which can happen with some projects popular with foreign buyers.

      I would in most cases not buy a condo in Thai or Company name.   Several posters have said only rent but if you think you will be here for the long haul, buying can have some advantages.  I always like paying myself each month, rather than the landlord. 

      As we have seen with a recent thread of a buyer complaining about airport noise after he bought his condo, it's important to take your time before any condo purchase.  Do your homework and find out as much as you can about the project you are interested in, including condo fee, foreign quota availability, project financials, observations of project maintenance, condition of pool, gym and other amenities, ratio of owner-residents to renters, any problems with illegal daily renters, abundance of, or lack of, parking.  If possible, talk with some residents and make a number of visits to the project at different times of the day.  

      Buying property is a big purchase, at least it is for me.  Select the area you want to live in and then see as much property available for sale as you possibly can.  Again, go slow and gather all the information you need before purchase--it's too late to check on airport noise after you have bought the property. 

     As the buyer, you are in the driver's seat.  Don't be rushed by agents into making a purchase, whether condo or house.   I would not even consider buying a house on leased land.  Leasing is renting and I'm not a renter--but that's me.  If you are only interested in a house purchase, buying in company name is an option. 

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

       Your safest option if you want to own property would be to buy a condo in foreign quota.  Your name would be on the title deed and you would be the sole owner of the condo, with all that entails.   Foreign quota condos are often easier to sell, as they are seen as more desirable for a foreign buyer. This is especially true if foreign quota becomes full in a project, which can happen with some projects popular with foreign buyers.

      I would in most cases not buy a condo in Thai or Company name.   Several posters have said only rent but if you think you will be here for the long haul, buying can have some advantages.  I always like paying myself each month, rather than the landlord. 

      As we have seen with a recent thread of a buyer complaining about airport noise after he bought his condo, it's important to take your time before any condo purchase.  Do your homework and find out as much as you can about the project you are interested in, including condo fee, foreign quota availability, project financials, observations of project maintenance, condition of pool, gym and other amenities, ratio of owner-residents to renters, any problems with illegal daily renters, abundance of, or lack of, parking.  If possible, talk with some residents and make a number of visits to the project at different times of the day.  

      Buying property is a big purchase, at least it is for me.  Select the area you want to live in and then see as much property available for sale as you possibly can.  Again, go slow and gather all the information you need before purchase--it's too late to check on airport noise after you have bought the property. 

     As the buyer, you are in the driver's seat.  Don't be rushed by agents into making a purchase, whether condo or house.   I would not even consider buying a house on leased land.  Leasing is renting and I'm not a renter--but that's me.  If you are only interested in a house purchase, buying in company name is an option. 

Add: Don't buy a unit that gets the afternoon sun.

[newnative]

9 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Add: Don't buy a unit that gets the afternoon sun.

Yes.  After owning a number of sea view condos facing west (we only buy sea view), we finally wised up and our final two condos in Pattaya had sea views facing north.  Much better--we could use the balconies from morning through evening.

[johng]

It's quite simple  apart from very very  rare circumstances involving lots of money

you  (foreigner  not Thai) can not own land in Thailand..yes you can own the house built on the land you do not own  for what that's worth 

 

As said above  you can fully 100% legally own a condo in the foreign quota

or you can rent a nice house for a small (comparative) amount of money  and have the option to move immediately when a karaoke bar,pig farm or motorcycle dyno testing facility opens next door.

[LukKrueng]

14 hours ago, newnative said:

Foreign quota condos are often easier to sell, as they are seen as more desirable for a foreign buyer.

That's a misconception. The units are not marked as foreign\Thai quota units. Every time a unit is to be sold to a non Thai person the condo management had to issue an official letter indicating the % of units owned by non Thais and only if it is less than 49% the unit can be registered to a foreigner. As the letter is valid for a period of time and the transfer at the land office + notification to the condo management might be done at the end of that period, other letters indicating less than 49% foreign ownership might be issued and it can happen that foreign ownership will exceed the 49% for a while, meaning that a foreign owned unit would not be allowed to sell to a foreigner.

[LukKrueng]

18 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

land lease contract for 30+30+30 years.

As was already mentioned - such a lease is not legal and can be annulled including the 1st period of 30 years.

As for the sale of lease options and who paid for what, under what terms - this is up to what you agree with the land owner and put on the lease contract.

[baansgr]

20 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

I am confused after speaking with a friend.
I am a UK citizen, I have lived in Thailand for the past 7 years with my Thai gf. I have been and still am renting a house but next year I might consider buying a house.
If I bought a house + land 15 years ago for 4 million THB with a 30 year lease on the land. The 30 year land lease costing 1 million THB so the house value would be 3 Million THB. Let's assume house prices have stayed the same over the 15 years.  What is the situation if I wanted to sell my house now.
My friend said
1. I would probably have a land lease contract for 30+30+30 years.
2. The seller (me) would have to pay for a new land lease of 30 years.
3. If unable to obtain a new 30 year land lease I could not transfer the remaining 15 years of the land lease to a buyer. Basically I would be unable to sell it.
My thoughts
1. I think it is Thai law that a farang cannot lease land for more than 30 years. So these 30+30+30 years are not guaranteed. Also each time a land lease is renewed then there will be a fee paid to the land owner.
2. I guess the seller needs to pay for the new 30 year land lease simply because most houses prices advertised are for the house + a 30 year land lease.
3. I think I read that a land lease can be passed on but that was when I was writing my Thai Will and so it was a bit different. But I find it hard to believe that if I bought a house + 30 year land lease. If 1 year after buying it I wanted to sell it and the land owner would not form a new land lease contract with the buyer then I could simply not sell it. If I moved away then the only option would be to rent it out for 29 years?

4. Could I sell the house with the remaining 15 years land lease?  If so how much would it be valued at? Does anyone sell a house with less than a 30 year land lease remaining?
 

On a slightly different note I would now probably look to buy a house freehold, my gf buying the land freehold, plus have a Usufruct contract. If a house + 30 year land lease is being sold for 4 Million would you expect to pay more if you bought that same house freehold?

Any advice to clarify any of the about greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Keith
 

The house is not worth 3 million, it's worth nowt absolutely nothing without the land it's built on

[Thingamabob]

Either rent, or buy in your wife's name if that suits.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

That's a misconception. The units are not marked as foreign\Thai quota units. Every time a unit is to be sold to a non Thai person the condo management had to issue an official letter indicating the % of units owned by non Thais and only if it is less than 49% the unit can be registered to a foreigner. As the letter is valid for a period of time and the transfer at the land office + notification to the condo management might be done at the end of that period, other letters indicating less than 49% foreign ownership might be issued and it can happen that foreign ownership will exceed the 49% for a while, meaning that a foreign owned unit would not be allowed to sell to a foreigner.

       My Thai spouse and I have owned 18 condos in foreign quota and 2 condos in Thai name.   We never had a problem selling any of the 18 foreign quota condos to another foreign buyer, while keeping the foreign quota.  With a number of these condos, the foreign quota was full in the project.  These condos were easy sells, each at a profit.  What you describe in your post never happened with any of our sales.

      The two condos in Thai name were bought in projects where the foreign quota was full.  They were more difficult sells, although one was easier than the other as the condo was in one of the most desirable projects in Pattaya.  Buyers will buy there even without foreign quota, as we did, because they want to be in that specific project, which is in a superior location with few other condo projects as competition.  With this project, foreign quota condos are priced higher than other units not in foreign quota.  Both condos eventually sold at a profit but they took longer to sell.

      Unless a buyer is in a situation such as the above where they absolutely must be in a specific project, I would still recommend buying in foreign quota.   You own the condo in your name, there's no Thai company directors to deal with, and no annual company paperwork you are hassled with every year.   Easier to buy, easier to sell with more potential buyers, easier to own with no annual paperwork.  

       

[KhunLA]

This why you don't get advice from friends, but strangers on a forum are so much better 

 

As @Will B Good pointed out, all great reasons to rent.

 

1.  You aren't buying anything. (unless it's a condo)

2. If relationship fails, you have no rights to sell. It's his / hers, not yours

3. Only an idiot buys a house on leased land, as only an idiot would buy it from you.

Most idiots don't have money to buy stuff.

 

Your options, rent, or buy a condo.

 

You're not even married.  How old are you , and do you plan on living 30 more years. Have kids, as who are you passing it on to?

 

Your post screams of a relationship, that you're not sure will last, and statistical wise, it probably won't.

 

Tell her you decided to buy a condo, in your name only, as see how she reacts.  That might be very telling.

Edited 1 hour ago by KhunLA

[crazykopite]

I have owned a number of properties at the moment I have two by way of company ownership ! Why lease land for 30 years then build on it only to hand it back “ crazy “  if you dont want to go down the company route consider buying a Condo that you can own 100% under the foreign ownership  I have lived in Thailand for 20 years I have never had any issues going down the company ownership route and don’t believe this 30+30+30 leasehold its total BS whatever you do make sure your in a desirable area should you need to sell my properties are beach front which are a very easy sell and also achieve a high rental . Have a good accountant and ensure you have your accounts submitted at the end of each financial year . I have a friend who put everything in his Thai partners name as they have a child  she has now kicked him out of the property and allows very limited time to see his child as they were not married he has zero rights 

Edited 18 minutes ago by crazykopite