Thai American lawyer advises that it is illegal for non-Thais to give Thai tax advice

[Jingthing]

This seems to me to be a big deal.

Tax advice given by non Thais is basically what we've been seeing online, here, youtube, facebook, etc. in the wake of the TAX HYSTERIA unleashed by the announcement of one change in Thai tax law about timing of transferred funds.

I tend to believe that information is true -- that it is illegal.

So all of you that have been swept up in the hysteria -- it seems to me you've mostly been listening to illegally given advice.

Sure personally I'm paying some attention to news about tax situation going forward, but I'm also concerned about what seems to me a budding huge industry in selling advice about an only possibly changing situation that nobody really knows enough about to be an expert about, foreigner or Thai.

On the other hand, I think there might be something to getting advice on structuring your finances proactively with consideration to how this might all eventually shake out.

 

 

[JimHuaHin]

If the heading is correct, then all the legal firms in Thailand that employ foreigners who provide tax advice are breaking the law.

[topt]

1 hour ago, JimHuaHin said:

If the heading is correct, then all the legal firms in Thailand that employ foreigners who provide tax advice are breaking the law.

You will probably find that they all have a resident Thai lawyer under who's auspices any "advice" rather than an opinion is given.

 

Unfortunately The Pattaya Mail has published at least 2 articles supposedly written by Thai tax "experts" that were at best misleading and in one case factually incorrect.......

[topt]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I tend to believe that information is true -- that it is illegal.

See my comment above - purely my opinion 

 

However this guy is conflating 2/3 issues - change to tax regs, advice and NIT. Personally I found the article on NIT he refers to a bit of a storm in a tea cup and there has been little comment about it which I believe is as it should be.

 

 

[Everyman]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This seems to me to be a big deal.

Tax advice given by non Thais is basically what we've been seeing online, here, youtube, facebook, etc. in the wake of the TAX HYSTERIA unleashed by the announcement of one change in Thai tax law about timing of transferred funds.

I tend to believe that information is true -- that it is illegal.

So all of you that have been swept up in the hysteria -- it seems to me you've mostly been listening to illegally given advice.

Sure personally I'm paying some attention to news about tax situation going forward, but I'm also concerned about what seems to me a budding huge industry in selling advice about an only possibly changing situation that nobody really knows enough about to be an expert about, foreigner or Thai.

On the other hand, I think there might be something to getting advice on structuring your finances proactively with consideration to how this might all eventually shake out.

 

 

 

At this point, I’m mostly interested in the psychological aspects of how the hysterical people will react next year when nothing at all happens. Will they double down? Or “memory hole” it as if it  never happened, like the 5G tower conspiracy theorists did? 

[Smokin Joe]

The Drama Queen topic heading makes it sound like people discussing the Thai Tax Rules on this forum would be breaking the law and also the bar room talk. Total rubbish.

[Liverpool Lou]

11 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

The Drama Queen topic heading makes it sound like people discussing the Thai Tax Rules on this forum would be breaking the law and also the bar room talk. Total rubbish.

No one said that discussing the subject was illegal, it is the giving official advice (as an advisor) on the subject that would be considered illegal.

[BritManToo]

19 minutes ago, Smokin Joe said:

The Drama Queen topic heading makes it sound like people discussing the Thai Tax Rules on this forum would be breaking the law and also the bar room talk. Total rubbish.

No, I took it to mean foreigners publishing video advice while fronting for companies in Thailand were breaking the law. If you ain't being paid, you aren't breaking the law.

 

But foreigners are prohibited from working in Financial and legal services in Thailand.

Obviously they can work as office managers, but once interacting with the public are obviously criminals. 

[Theforgotten1]

The above video is tax news ,not advice, read the headline

[Thingamabob]

On 10/23/2024 at 2:28 AM, Jingthing said:

This seems to me to be a big deal.

Tax advice given by non Thais is basically what we've been seeing online, here, youtube, facebook, etc. in the wake of the TAX HYSTERIA unleashed by the announcement of one change in Thai tax law about timing of transferred funds.

I tend to believe that information is true -- that it is illegal.

So all of you that have been swept up in the hysteria -- it seems to me you've mostly been listening to illegally given advice.

Sure personally I'm paying some attention to news about tax situation going forward, but I'm also concerned about what seems to me a budding huge industry in selling advice about an only possibly changing situation that nobody really knows enough about to be an expert about, foreigner or Thai.

On the other hand, I think there might be something to getting advice on structuring your finances proactively with consideration to how this might all eventually shake out.

 

 

Thank you for this sensible and balanced advice. Way too much uninformed noise and chatter on this subject.

[Thingamabob]

3 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Thank you for this sensible and balanced advice. Way too much uninformed noise and chatter on this subject.

Further, and slightly contradictory, it is foreign tax lawyers who have tried to sell the idea, to the Thai authorities, of taxing remissions from abroad. They are, basically. grubbing around for business. They are not on the side of those of us who live in Thailand. Never forget that.

[Gobbler]

10 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Further, and slightly contradictory, it is foreign tax lawyers who have tried to sell the idea, to the Thai authorities, of taxing remissions from abroad. They are, basically. grubbing around for business. They are not on the side of those of us who live in Thailand. Never forget that.

In this case, American Lawyer  Benjamin Hart is a Thai Citizen. 

 

 

[Thingamabob]

Just now, Gobbler said:

In this case, American Lawyer  Benjamin Hart is a Thai Citizen. 

 

 

I know.

[Gobbler]

On 10/23/2024 at 2:28 AM, Jingthing said:

This seems to me to be a big deal.

Tax advice given by non Thais is basically what we've been seeing online, here, youtube, facebook, etc. in the wake of the TAX HYSTERIA unleashed by the announcement of one change in Thai tax law about timing of transferred funds.

I tend to believe that information is true -- that it is illegal.

So all of you that have been swept up in the hysteria -- it seems to me you've mostly been listening to illegally given advice.

Sure personally I'm paying some attention to news about tax situation going forward, but I'm also concerned about what seems to me a budding huge industry in selling advice about an only possibly changing situation that nobody really knows enough about to be an expert about, foreigner or Thai.

On the other hand, I think there might be something to getting advice on structuring your finances proactively with consideration to how this might all eventually shake out.

 

 

I gift all my money to my Thai child. Done. 

[chiang mai]

Well thats Jim Gant screwed then.

[Gobbler]

It's A Gift. 

 

[Dan O]

On 10/23/2024 at 2:28 AM, Jingthing said:

This seems to me to be a big deal.

Tax advice given by non Thais is basically what we've been seeing online, here, youtube, facebook, etc. in the wake of the TAX HYSTERIA unleashed by the announcement of one change in Thai tax law about timing of transferred funds.

I tend to believe that information is true -- that it is illegal.

So all of you that have been swept up in the hysteria -- it seems to me you've mostly been listening to illegally given advice.

Sure personally I'm paying some attention to news about tax situation going forward, but I'm also concerned about what seems to me a budding huge industry in selling advice about an only possibly changing situation that nobody really knows enough about to be an expert about, foreigner or Thai.

On the other hand, I think there might be something to getting advice on structuring your finances proactively with consideration to how this might all eventually shake out.

 

 

Its not completely accurate to say non Thai's are acting illegally if they give tax advice as you outlined. It may be illegal to charge for Tax Advice or act in that capacity officially but comments and discussions on Social Media platforms are not the same and not subject to the legal requirements. Saremongering post.

[Dan O]

27 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Further, and slightly contradictory, it is foreign tax lawyers who have tried to sell the idea, to the Thai authorities, of taxing remissions from abroad. They are, basically. grubbing around for business. They are not on the side of those of us who live in Thailand. Never forget that.

No its not foreigner lawyers that sold the idea to Thailand, it's the Thai govt that's struggling financially because they have no idea what they are doing to fix the mess they are in now. They are trying to play in the adult financial pool and they don't know how to swim yet. Foreigner lawyers, like lawyers everywhere, jumped on the bandwagon as they see $$$ in the offing. 

[bkk6060]

They seem all so screwed up, promoting business, and giving different information.  They should be arrested and jailed.

[Thingamabob]

I repeat, it was foreign (American) lawyers who suggested to the Thai authorities that taxing remissions from abroad would help to reduce the Thai govt's deficit.

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Its not completely accurate to say non Thai's are acting illegally if they give tax advice as you outlined. It may be illegal to charge for Tax Advice or act in that capacity officially but comments and discussions on Social Media platforms are not the same and not subject to the legal requirements. Saremongering post.

 

It's illegal for any foreigner to work in this sector, there doesn't have to be payment made. The definition of work is anything paid or unpaid.  It's not the average Joe's on here discussing things but it is any foreigner soliciting business or giving professional advice.

 

A foreigner acting as a tax adviser would be an illegal activity.

[chiang mai]

There is no issue if people are only being informed what the rules and regulations are, the problem happens when people overstep the mark and start to advise others what to do and how to do it, eg, you don't need to file a tax return.

[Dan O]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

There is no issue if people are only being informed what the rules and regulations are, the problem happens when people overstep the mark and start to advise others what to do and how to do it, eg, you don't need to file a tax return.

Giving opinions, advice or suggestions as part of any discussion is of no legal concern. Charging for services or presenting your service as a tax advisor or representing yourself in an official capacity is the only time that any legal issue would arise. 

[jayboy]

23 hours ago, topt said:

You will probably find that they all have a resident Thai lawyer under who's auspices any "advice" rather than an opinion is given.

 

Unfortunately The Pattaya Mail has published at least 2 articles supposedly written by Thai tax "experts" that were at best misleading and in one case factually incorrect.......

 

It's not that hard.Advice provided by recognized accountancy and tax specialist firms can be regarded as credible.The large number of dodgy Thailand based advisors generally cannot.These shysters have clocked there are many foreigners concerned about tax matters and are looking to feed off those concerns.It's not that they give poor advice - although sometimes they do - but they are not professionals, the very type that used to sell double glazing door to door.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Giving opinions, advice or suggestions as part of any discussion is of no legal concern. Charging for services or presenting your service as a tax advisor or representing yourself in an official capacity is the only time that any legal issue would arise. 

I agree with the second part of what you wrote but I'm unsure about the first part. I think the point may be moot however since most of the tax firms I have seen have Thai tax consultants as co-owners and the foreigner is not employed in that capacity.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

 

It's not that hard.Advice provided by recognized accountancy and tax specialist firms can be regarded as credible.The large number of dodgy Thailand based advisors generally cannot.These shysters have clocked there are many foreigners concerned about tax matters and are looking to feed off those concerns.It's not that they give poor advice - although sometimes they do - but they are not professionals, the very type that used to sell double glazing door to door.

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh, how many members would use Big 4 accountants for tax advice in their home country? About 1%! Everyone else uses, somebody else!

 

I've looked at one relative newcomer here quite closely, the firm is prominent with a farang male in front but behind him is a series of Thai trained and certified tax accountants, some are ex-Big 4. It may be convenient in the current climate to try and accuse these "nerecommers" as opportunist and unqualified but that's not necessarily always the case.

 

I think everyone needs to do their own research and draw their own conclusions rather than rush to judgement on the easy answer..

 

 

[BruceWayne]

On 10/23/2024 at 4:01 AM, topt said:

However this guy is conflating 2/3 issues 

 

Exactly - new Tax of WW income, Negative tax, advice and so on.

 

On taxes =

"You're not necessarily going to be assessed or taxed in Thailand"

Same as saying:

"You're not necessarily NOT going to be assessed or taxed in Thailand"

 

And don't u dare go thinking for yourself or discussing your thoughts on these changes (that NO ONE understands) - That's what we equally baffled & clueless tax lawyers get so handsomely paid to do. 

Er, OK mate. 

 

The video is clear as mud so offers no insights - zero value add.

Just even more confusion.

 

Guy comes across as a stereotypical waffling blowhard yank.

He just spent 12 mins saying nothing of value so if you pay him by the hour be careful.

Fake reassurances, come to Thailand, use my services blah blah blah.

 

No thanks pal.

 

 

 

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

It's illegal for any foreigner to work in this sector, there doesn't have to be payment made. The definition of work is anything paid or unpaid.  It's not the average Joe's on here discussing things but it is any foreigner soliciting business or giving professional advice.

 

A foreigner acting as a tax adviser would be an illegal activity.

I was speaking to the original post saying you cant speak on Social Media or its illegal. I believe what I wrote said the same that your saying, if you read it. Discussion or giving opinions does not qualify as being a tax advisor. But if you engage in providing official tax services it is illegal. I stand by what I wrote.

[jayboy]

50 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh, how many members would use Big 4 accountants for tax advice in their home country? About 1%! Everyone else uses, somebody else!

 

I've looked at one relative newcomer here quite closely, the firm is prominent with a farang male in front but behind him is a series of Thai trained and certified tax accountants, some are ex-Big 4. It may be convenient in the current climate to try and accuse these "nerecommers" as opportunist and unqualified but that's not necessarily always the case.

 

I think everyone needs to do their own research and draw their own conclusions rather than rush to judgement on the easy answer..

 

 

 

I don't disagree with any of this.The comparison with the home country is however rather misleading as there is an established architecture of reliable accountants/tax specialists which does not really exist in Thailand.I would still recommend anyone with complicated tax issues to use an internationally credible firm in Thailand.

 

The example you provide of a relative newcomer is interesting, and reassuring given the relevant background of the Thai staff.I would definitely want to know exactly the past experience and qualifications of the farang in charge. Sparing your blushes, given your posting record, you have the sophistication to apply some decent due diligence.But many don't.

 

 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I don't disagree with any of this.The comparison with the home country is however rather misleading as there is an established architecture of reliable accountants/tax specialists which does not really exist in Thailand.I would still recommend anyone with complicated tax issues to use an internationally credible firm in Thailand.

 

The example you provide of a relative newcomer is interesting, and reassuring given the relevant background of the Thai staff.I would definitely want to know exactly the past experience and qualifications of the farang in charge. Sparing your blushes, given your posting record, you have the sophistication to apply some decent due diligence.But many don't.

 

 

Prior to the emergence of the current tax issue, only a small handful of members had ever dealt with tax accountants here, nobody else had the need to. That means that very few of us understand what accountancy and tax infrastructure already exists here, because we've never needed to or bothered to find out. Now that we do have a need and we have started digging, we have come down critically on the "industry" because it contains some farangs who speak to us in our native language....shock and horror that. 🙂

 

FWIW if I were looking for a tax consultant, in the new year, I wouldn't dismiss ExpatTax for any reason I can think of.