Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[jojothai]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

There is no information on this subject to find or share.

It's totally imaginary.

 

Retired Expats in Thailand have not been asked to pay Thai tax.

And if you haven't worked here, you are unlikely to ever be asked to pay tax.

Yes, that may have been the situation in the past.

The tax requirement on remittances change is from 1st jan 2024.

So its only after the end of this tax year that we will find out how if and what happens.

[jojothai]

11 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Actually, remittance earned in the same year was always taxable.

Yes, you are correct . I stand to be corrected, but we are talking about the new rule changes here and if tax returns will now be required.

There is likely to be a lot more attention from the TRD for any remittances.

Edited 2 hours ago by jojothai
Add text

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, jojothai said:

Why would they have declared the remittances?

The remittance tax change was from 1st jan 2024. So there has been no need for the retirees using the income method to file tax returns previously.

But the remittances became a taxable amount this year, then the retirees soon have to decide what to do.

Next year we should expect to start to see how this develops.

I recall from previous year posts about visa's and living costs that a fairly large number of members were having their overseas pensions remitted directly to Thailand each month, they needed the money to qualify for their visa and also to live on. Even today, my pensions are remitted directly to Thailand as they have been for many years. I don't do it that way for any reason other than it's convenient and most years I don't have to pay any tax. I recall others saying that convenience was the biggest reason it meant not having to worry about exchange rates and trying to time them. A lot of expats got burned by exchange rates from 2010 onwards, they were used to seeing 60 and 70 to the Pound and all of sudden it ended up in the 50's. Thereafter, many said screw it, just send it to me every month so I don't have to worry about it.

[cowellandrew]

So if you leave Thailand after staying 179 days then re enter for another 179 days

Are you liable for tax?

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, cowellandrew said:

So if you leave Thailand after staying 179 days then re enter for another 179 days

Are you liable for tax?

Yes, the 180 days is cumulative in any given calendar year. Six months in , six months out, would work.

[scottiejohn]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Expats are required to hold between 400k and 800k per year in a bank account, in order to qualify for a visa. The amount is indicative of the cost to live here for a year and by all accounts isn't too far off the mark.

So you now agree that just because you have that money in a bank account is NOT a reason to file a tax return?

[jayboy]

35 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Actually, remittance earned in the same year was always taxable.

 

They were and I think most sentient retirees were aware of this.However given that inward transfers were fungible and (a) earnings from previous years were not taxable and (b) no checks were ever made which years transfers related to and (c) no system for making checks existed and (d) the TRD wasn't interested - the vast majority of non working retirees without Thai income did not file tax returns.Many including myself tried to keep in mind it would be best not remit current income.But it wasn't a big deal if one did and certainly the idea of submitting a tax return never entered the mind.All changed now of course.

 

So I don't think many people in the category I described were submitting tax returns in the past.Can I prove it ? No other than anecdotally and the application of common sense.I put this matter to a senior foreign tax/accountancy guy (well known firm) and he agreed my assessment - though making the point that the situation has now changed.

 

I'm aware that a few people submitted returns to claim back interest on savings.One struggles to understand why they would want to enter the tax system for miserable financial returns given the interest rates payable - but perhaps they had astronomical holdings.

 

There is a certain sort of person that loves to have every remote possibility covered.They derive pleasure from completing and submitting tax returns even when there was no real need.Even more they enjoy the virtuous feeling and the potential ability to rebuke others for their shortcomings/incomprehension.It takes all sorts.

 

Anyway the matter is excellently covered in the recent PWC tax publication for which there is a link elsewhere.Pay attention to that and not to people like me and certainly not the Eeyores out there.

[JimGant]

15 minutes ago, jayboy said:

They derive pleasure from completing and submitting tax returns even when there was no real need

Naaaaa. That would really be retarded.

[Captor]

21 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Sure, continue complain. If you wish to live in Thailand, that´s what you need to do. Stop whining about it. It´s another option. Go home and get something for you paid tax.

Who is whining? I just answered your question.

[thailand49]

 

 

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The problem is that it has started but you don't seem to understand that. What hasn't started yet is the tax on world wide income or the negative income tax proposals, they are not still being discussed. But the rule change regarding remittances was put into effect last October using Por 161 and became effective on 1 January this year, the first day of the new tax year.

Ok if that is the road you want to travel down and understand knock yourself out I dont plan to jump and obtain an tax ID, until Im force to do it is that just too hard to understand for you. 

Im not confused but I do wonder if Im talking to a wall?

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

should retitle the thread "Pot Boiler"

Other suggestions

1 Ex  pats shot at dawn for failing to register with TRD

2 ex pats to be deported  if  tax forms  not  filled in

3 ex  pats to be strip searched to find  hidden arssets

4 My life in hell because i didnt fill in tax  forms

5 Trump condemns Thai Tax laws

6 Trans allowed to declare half their income untaxable as theyre in 2  minds about it

[JimGant]

21 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Is this the same tax adviser who was telling Americans that their IRA/401k withdrawals were not subject to US Federal income tax due to the operation of the Thai-US DTA and also were not subject to Thai taxation due to the prior-year remittance rule?

Yep. He "interpreted" (misrepresented for profit is a better descriptor) the Thai-US DTA's "saving clause" as NOT being applicable to remitted IRA proceeds -- making Thailand the only country where US persons, being tax residents of Thailand, did not have to declare their IRA income on their US tax return -- because the DTA gave Thailand "exclusive taxation rights" on IRAs. And not having to pay Thai taxes, 'cause of the "not remitted in year earned" rule. Result: Pay no one any taxes on your annual IRA RMD cashout, if you spend 180 days in Thailand, and don't remit that RMD cashout until the next year. Too good to be true? Duh.

 

And, yes, the DTA does say Thailand has "exclusive taxation rights" on private pensions and IRAs. But, the US inserts a "saving clause" into every one of its DTAs, allowing in all but a few situations (e.g, alimony, child support) US taxation authority override of DTA language. Sounds arrogant, right? But in actuality it doesn't override any of the spirit of a DTA, namely prevention of double taxation. What it does do, however, is prevent double No taxation. For example, in this case, where Thailand doesn't take advantage of its exclusive taxation right of IRAs -- the "saving clause" allows the US to tax this IRA -- and keep all the proceeds. No double taxation violation here. But if Thailand did tax the IRA, then the US would have to absorb a tax credit for this Thai taxation -- again, no double taxation. The OECD loves the concept of the saving clause, as it prevents a no no taxation situation, which is at the heart of the OECD's new Model Tax Treaty language.

 

I won't belabor the point -- this IRA "saving clause" situation was settled in similar situation involving Switzerland -- and can be found at the below link. But Thomas Carden has successfully sold the IRA tax avoidance scheme to, apparently, many Yanks here in Thailand -- and the scheme is, apparently, too complex for the GS-11 at the IRS to see through (the Swiss example was solved by the senior lawyer on the IRS staff).

https://aseannow.com/topic/1008555-tax-specialist-in-chiang-mai/page/2/

 

But now with all remittances, regardless of year remitted, being taxable -- Carden's snake oil bubble regarding IRAs has burst. Good. He's a licensed Enrolled Agent for the IRS -- and like with CPAs, he takes a fiduciary oath to protect his clients, and the US. Some of us take that oath seriously -- others apparently don't. So, beware of anything Carden is selling.