UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[Liverpool Lou]

15 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

once you leave the country why should you be entitled to anything? 

Because we paid for it!   The state UK pension is not something that is payable if no contributions have been made, it is not a benefit.

Edited November 17 by Liverpool Lou

[James9999]

11 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

I know how they can fix the issue, just allow expats in Thailand to have the same rights as expats in foreign countries that the UK government doesn't currently discriminate against. Why have different laws based on where someone decides to live? They earned it, stop trying to steal it back!

Well said.

[Nick Carter icp]

20 hours ago, James9999 said:

Do you own the house in the UK? If you do then surely you are maintaining a UK address but you might not be the the council tax payer as that would be the occupier. If I ever move to Thailand I don't intend to sell up and my son will be living in the house that I own. Whether I visit frequently as a tourist or fully go and live there I have no idea. But I am concerned with the current anti pensioner attitude of the Government they will be looking for any excuse to stop annual rises and stop access to the NHS. Anybody know what the current rules are to maintain getting the annual increases. I assume that you can't be classed as "living" in Thailand if you only ever enter visa exempt or on a tourist visa.

 

   Charge you Son the going rental rate and you wont need to be concerned about minimal pensions rises 

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because we paid for it!

No, you paid for the pensioners at the time. Not for your own pensions. Imo there is a moral obligation, but you didn't pay for it. You paid for private pensions, if any.

[James9999]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because we paid for it!

Exactly. Can you imagine a company or private pension company saying you have left the country so you don't get your pension. But you would think that they would want to encourage people to leave not stay. On the plus side not a burden on the NHS. Free up housing. Not use other resources from the UK. Still pay UK tax on your pension. Make living space for an immigrant. Seems encouraging pensioners to leave would be  a good idea. In fact it is such a good idea I wonder why the Government doesn't make it mandatory. Send them all to another country, like Rwanda.

[James9999]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Charge you Son the going rental rate and you wont need to be concerned about minimal pensions rises 

Charge you Son. Really, your English. If I charged my son rent how much would the HMRC take?

[Liverpool Lou]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because we paid for it!

No, you paid for the pensioners at the time. Not for your own pensions. Imo there is a moral obligation, but you didn't pay for it.

It's really irrelevant who paid for whom, those who paid in enough get a state pension when they reach pension age, those who didn't pay in, don't.  We paid for our entitlement.

[foreverlomsak]

On 11/15/2024 at 11:34 AM, wombat said:

If that's what takes to get you off the books...meanwhile 

Hopefully they will treat Starmer the same as other low cost pensioners are being treated. Apparently he has a tax exemption for his pensions written into actual UK law.

[Nick Carter icp]

21 minutes ago, James9999 said:

Charge you Son. Really, your English. If I charged my son rent how much would the HMRC take?

 

   Why should you struggle and he's living rent free ?

HMRC take 20 % on income over 12500 GBP.

 You'd probably get about 2000 GBP a month renting your house out in the UK

[kwilco]

43 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because we paid for it!   The state UK pension is not something that is payable if no contributions have been made, it is not a benefit.

there is no state pension fund in the UK - you paid for the pensioners at the time you were working, now it is those in employment who are paying your pension. So mke sure tey pay their taxes and NI.

Edited November 17 by kwilco

[James9999]

47 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Because we paid for it!   The state UK pension is not something that is payable if no contributions have been made, it is not a benefit.

Unless I have misunderstood your reply what is the issue? If you paid contributions then you get the state pension. Yes it used to be that be that if you made no contributions that you got no state pension. But by an large short of married women who stayed at home and never worked (being a very pre 60s thing) most people will have made contributions. The requirements have now changed. The minimum contributions for a full state pension was 44 years. I made 52 years worth of contributions yet there are people out there that still begrudge you getting anything. What a wonderful country the UK is.

[James9999]

23 minutes ago, kwilco said:

there is no state pension fund in the UK - you paid for the pensioners at the time you were working, now it is those in employment who are paying your pension. So mke sure tey pay their taxes and NI.

Yes it has always been like that. All my working life I have been paying for other people's pensions. And now those people working now are paying for mine as other people will pay for theirs.

 

[James9999]

30 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why should you struggle and he's living rent free ?

HMRC take 20 % on income over 12500 GBP.

 You'd probably get about 2000 GBP a month renting your house out in the UK

There you go again. Who says he is living rent free? And even if he was so what. And I never said that I would be struggling either. I have adequate non state provision. I am unclear why you turn everything into a controversy. But I am not sure what any of that has to do with the principle of not allowing increases to some pensioners. £2000 per month rent is I think over the top outside of London. That is if you actually got the rent and not squatter.

[Gknrd]

Doesn't Australia do the same thing?  I tried to read the rules for Australians, I didn't understand it all , but looks to be a mess also.   Just did a google search and I got this?

 

 

• UK pensioners in other countries – most notably Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa – have their pension frozen i.e. paid at the same rate as it was when they first became entitled, or the date they left the UK if they were already pensioners then. 

 

 

Edited November 17 by Gknrd

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, James9999 said:

There you go again. Who says he is living rent free? And even if he was so what. And I never said that I would be struggling either. 

 

   If you aren't charging him rent, then it stands to reason that he's staying for free and it the meagre pension rise per year means alot to you, then you must be somewhat struggling 

[sambum]

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Why don't you do that ?

 

I get seasick too easily!

[James9999]

13 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   If you aren't charging him rent, then it stands to reason that he's staying for free and it the meagre pension rise per year means alot to you, then you must be somewhat struggling 

You do come out with some crap.

[jori123]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's really irrelevant who paid for whom, those who paid in enough get a state pension when they reach pension age, those who didn't pay in, don't.  We paid for our entitlement.

That isn't quite true,..however..The annual uprating of pensions is not set in law, its policy review. Policy that's been there 80 years, in all that time nobody has been prosecuted for receiving unfrozen pension in frozen land, and never will. 

   Receive pension thru IPC ,yes frozen, opt for pension to be paid into Wise, no freezing, good % too 4.3 I think  ,set up DD or SO  paid automatically into wherever, no illegalities there

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, James9999 said:

You do come out with some crap.

 

  I am just stating what you have previously posted 

[James9999]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   If you aren't charging him rent, then it stands to reason that he's staying for free and it the meagre pension rise per year means alot to you, then you must be somewhat struggling 

Point 1 wrong Point 2 wrong Point 3 wrong Point 4 wrong. Why do you keep coming out crap?

[James9999]

56 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I am just stating what you have previously posted 

You state anything that I said. And you call me a liar.

[hotandsticky]

12 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Not if you no longer have your passport or boarding card etc!

What could they look up unless they have biometric data on you?

PS; I left the UK and entered Thailand before that sh!t came in!

 

 

Your every international movement (or lack of it) is logged on the system  - not just in your passport.

[hotandsticky]

10 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Scroungers. 

 

If you don't live in the UK, there is no way the government should be giving you any money. 

 

I see far too many old British guys out here in Thailand, Brexit loving, always whinging about immigration in the UK (irony lost on them they are not the most desirable immigrants themselves in Thailand). They contribute nothing to the UK, so why we paying them a pension?

 

If they have a private pension then it's their business. 

 

 

Fortunately your opinion counts for Jack. 

 

Of course the government should give its citizens what they are legally entitlement. Now move on and cut out your racism.

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, James9999 said:

Yes it used to be that be that if you made no contributions that you got no state pension. But by an large short of married women who stayed at home and never worked (being a very pre 60s thing) most people will have made contributions.

My Brit wife got 19 years of NI payments for having a child (you only got it for 1 kid).

So it would only be infertile non-working married women that had no state pension.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Actually the article is dated 2017 about Corbyn's support and nothing to do with the present Labouring shower!

Take it you believe he wrote the 2019 manifesto on his own as well.

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Scroungers. 

 

If you don't live in the UK, there is no way the government should be giving you any money. 

 

I see far too many old British guys out here in Thailand, Brexit loving, always whinging about immigration in the UK (irony lost on them they are not the most desirable immigrants themselves in Thailand). They contribute nothing to the UK, so why we paying them a pension?

 

If they have a private pension then it's their business. 

Obviously you have no idea how the UK state pension was structured.

The government relies on the this ignorance to perpetrate thee discrimination.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

The frozen aspect of state pensions has!

No it hasn't. If the frozen aspect had been "that way" for over 70 years then all state pensions would be frozen.

You can try and defend discrimination as much as you want, doesn't make it right.

 

There were other discriminatory policies introduced over the years which you obviously fail to comprehend.

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's really irrelevant who paid for whom, those who paid in enough get a state pension when they reach pension age, those who didn't pay in, don't.  We paid for our entitlement.

Apparently it is relevant.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 

No, you paid for the pensioners at the time. Not for your own pensions.

Indeed, the UK state pension introduced in 1948 as a "Pay as you go" pension scheme, where the workers of today pay the pensioners of today and the workers  of tomorrow pay the pensioners of tomorrow. The scheme was to be funded by national insurance contributions with a percentage of that contribution going towards the health service.

In a response to a petition in the House last year the following statement was made.

 

"An individual’s contributions provide a foundation for calculating entitlement to future personal entitlements. The contributions do not actually pay for those entitlements directly. Twenty per cent. of national insurance contributions go towards the national health service, the remainder fund contributory benefits, the vast majority of which goes to the state pension. National insurance contributions are pooled and people do not have an individual pot which funds their own state pension." https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-02-19/debates/24021975000085/FrozenBritishPensions

 

In order to defend the government position Mr Maynard referred to the circumstances of the day rather than as they were in 1948, when there were no other benefits being paid from NI. The government had deliberately distorted the NI arrangement in an attempt to remove the link between NI and the state pension. The long term aim has always been to merge NI into general taxation. The above statement is intended to deceive and as politicians have a vested interest in keeping the lid on, nothing was said. People have an NI record and as such have a "holding" in the national insurance fund, a bit like any other pension. It should be remembered it was the introduction of other benefits from NI that resulted in a shortfall from NI with the state pension being partially funded by income tax. The rhetoric above is similar to flawed assessment made by the court in the Carson case, which hinged on the link between NI and state pension.

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

No it hasn't. If the frozen aspect had been "that way" for over 70 years then all state pensions would be frozen.

You can try and defend discrimination as much as you want, doesn't make it right.

 

There were other discriminatory policies introduced over the years which you obviously fail to comprehend.

It's only frozen when you're found, or you've declared, to have moved abroad to live in a non-reciprocating country. Exactly what percentage of pensioners this represents I have no idea, and in any case, would not be very reliable for obvious reasons.