UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[jori123]

On 12/30/2024 at 12:39 AM, Gottfrid said:

Oh yes! It´s still fairly simple. You did not know. You did not keep on until they gave you the regulations.

If you are a resident or not right now, depends on if you were in UK 6 month continuously or not. If not, you will not be a resident.

Also, you write something like a problem because your wife´s mother getting old???? Really??? Did you not know people are getting old, or did you think she was younger than she really is? That is just not a problem that just pop up out of the blue. Everyone know people are getting old and must plan for that.

So, everything is still same easy. Happy New Year!

Regulations? You want to read them.for OAP ,AA,plus two others there is nothing sanctioned ,no stoppages, pay backs,nothing, etc,where to find out? DWP regulations,that's where,not the " I know someone " crowd,plenty of those looneys /spiteful weirdos on the loose. Keep to UK address or EU one

 

[jori123]

On 12/29/2024 at 11:28 AM, kimamey said:

The difficulty is finding those who might be getting the increase when they aren't entitled to under the current rules. If they have a way to find people who are possibly infringing the rules then it becomes much easier. It's not difficult to investigate someone to find out where they are living. Their passport information should do that. I'm surprised they aren't using that already although that might only go back so far.

PP information has nothing to do with non means tested /unsanctionable benefits,OAP is that,not punishable, surprisingly AA is too, PP is, plus a whole host are,U C def is ,might find it hard tho to drop the freezing,worth a try,I'll say it is

[ElwoodP]

Troll posts from a non Brit removed.

[transam]

On 1/1/2025 at 3:02 AM, jori123 said:

PP information has nothing to do with non means tested /unsanctionable benefits,OAP is that,not punishable, surprisingly AA is too, PP is, plus a whole host are,U C def is ,might find it hard tho to drop the freezing,worth a try,I'll say it is

You're back, are you snowed in, in Blighty........🥶

[jori123]

7 hours ago, transam said:

You're back, are you snowed in, in Blighty........🥶

Nah,for U tho,colder than a whores tits in a brass bra on shady side of an iceberg,   Start of another,yet another frozen pension year for u,losses mounding up,could well be over £70000 now all those years away ner mind ,bags packed for return but I get full OAP ,did there too, and will continue on returning, ,plus work pension,plus £113 smackers a week tax free,from govt ,it's good,U want to try it lol

[transam]

13 hours ago, jori123 said:

Nah,for U tho,colder than a whores tits in a brass bra on shady side of an iceberg,   Start of another,yet another frozen pension year for u,losses mounding up,could well be over £70000 now all those years away ner mind ,bags packed for return but I get full OAP ,did there too, and will continue on returning, ,plus work pension,plus £113 smackers a week tax free,from govt ,it's good,U want to try it lol

I see you are still an unhappy Brit, just about managing in Blighty on the pension you keep on about...😂

 

Now should I mow the lawn today, hmmmm, not sure, it is a bit nippy outside at 27*.........🤣

 

Or perhaps give the Koi Carp's abode a bit of a clean out, decisions, decisions...🤗

 

Anyhooo, chin up, chap, you crack-on........😨..........🤭

[jori123]

On 12/3/2024 at 5:13 PM, jori123 said:

I'm not in denial that I received approx £60000 quid more than you whilst residing there in th ,not one bit,fact is I'm proud of it happy bunny here,very happy   would say tho it's only CU that is on the radar,not OAP. Sorry bout that,hope Ur alive still to lose another £60000 lol

Before the thread finishes I would like to apologise to you transam,yes indeed I do. Happy new year,may it be a prosperous for you,and I see you retired in 2010,just done bit of finking,no not 60000 quid loss for you 15 years on frozen pension,a loss to you of £103;428.28,losses per year of £6,895,00,so year ending it would be £110,428,28 anyway no crying over spilt champagne 

[smedly]

people are living here and not delclaring the do, they use a UK address to fraudulently claim UK benefits and/or UK anual pension increases,   if found out they will face a lengthy jail term in the UK, I pay UK taxes so they are stealing from me and every UK tax payer, I hope they get caught - it is simple to expose, cross check passport records and bank records with claims.

 

In saying that I disagree with UK policy not getting anual increases to state pensions while live abroad, it is wrong but that is a different discussion.

 

Fyi - I am not old enough to receive UK state pension yet, I've been livin in Thailand 20+ years  - DWP and Inland revenue have my thai address and so does my UK bank

[theblether]

On 12/16/2024 at 4:16 PM, rustyhinges said:

I live in Thailand and worked here previously for 7 years and have a Thai spouse.

I began to receive my UK state pension in May 2023. Last May 2024 I did not receive the UK indexed linked increase to my monthly pension.

I discussed this with a former colleague / friend who lives in the Philippines with his Filipino spouse.

He told me that he does receive the annual increases to his UK state pension but was aware that UK citizens living in some other countries are not entitled to the same annual uplift.

I visited the UK.GOV DWP website to investigate this apparent anomaly. I was very surprised indeed to learn that is true.

This seems so unfair without ant reasonable basis!!!

Surely entitlement should be based on citizenship and contributions paid over the years of the working life and not on address of residence.

I think this case of unfairness should be put before the International Court of Human Rights if the House of Lords do not correct this blatantly wrong policy.

 

This is a shameful post. 

 

Quite frankly unbelievable that you lied in Thailand for seven years and were unaware you were not entitled to pension increases. 

 

Humiliating as you clearly put zero effort into planning your Thai based retirement. Utterly feckless.

[503726]

On 12/31/2024 at 9:08 AM, Denim said:

The UK government should be glad retirees choose to live overseas in a cheaper country. If they were all obliged to return to the UK because without annual pension rises they can't survive , they would then not only get the full pension on their return but many would get other benefits to boot , disability benefit , housing benefit , attendance allowance etc

As ironic as it may seem in the real world, I believe the mentality in a welfare state is that when a benefit is provided, it is because they WANT those who qualify to take them (to aid "circulation" of money in the economy in the way the law maker intended). It is counter intuitive / seems daft to the mind of an ordinary tax payer who rather hopes less money was being shelled out of the system.

[503726]

35 minutes ago, smedly said:

Fyi - I am not old enough to receive UK state pension yet, I've been livin in Thailand 20+ years  - DWP and Inland revenue have my thai address and so does my UK bank

Smedley - have your UK bank suspended any services available to you? I use a UK address for my UK banks so that they do not change the functions that I am familiar with. I do not know what impact it might have, does notifying them have consequences in what the UK bank will allow you to do (like perhaps withdraw a Touch & Go facility on a bank card or paying pitifully low interest rates)? Thanks

[503726]

I had an appointment with the government provided free pension advice service provided by Pension Wise last night. 

 

Pension Wise said I should check that residence in Thailand does not undermine the right to receive 25% of a pension tax free. I was surprised at the suggestion. Does anyone know of any problem to eligibility for the tax free element of a pension?!

 

The second aspect concerned Double Taxation Relief. I do expect to pay UK tax which will go through my Tax Return. I do not expect to have to pay tax on pension payments from the UK into my Thai bank so I do not expect double tax. Is that right?

 

I would much prefer to have them paid into my UK bank but had to provide my Thai bank as the pension company requested proof of address via the Electoral Register (& as I felt registering at my UK address was it a bit too much after 8 years in Thailand now so I moved the Electoral Reg to my Thai address). 

 

Finally and as an aside - do Credit Checks (particularly in applying to open a savings account with an existing bank when an annual "bonus" rate comes to an end) link Electoral Register address (here in Thailand) with the UK address I use for this particular bank and others? 

 

Many thanks for view guys, really appreciate help & the discussions ongoing here 

 

HNY

 

I expect 

[Expat68]

53 minutes ago, smedly said:

people are living here and not delclaring the do, they use a UK address to fraudulently claim UK benefits and/or UK anual pension increases,   if found out they will face a lengthy jail term in the UK, I pay UK taxes so they are stealing from me and every UK tax payer, I hope they get caught - it is simple to expose, cross check passport records and bank records with claims.

 

In saying that I disagree with UK policy not getting anual increases to state pensions while live abroad, it is wrong but that is a different discussion.

 

Fyi - I am not old enough to receive UK state pension yet, I've been livin in Thailand 20+ years  - DWP and Inland revenue have my thai address and so does my UK bank

Same me

[smedly]

1 hour ago, 503726 said:

Smedley - have your UK bank suspended any services available to you? I use a UK address for my UK banks so that they do not change the functions that I am familiar with. I do not know what impact it might have, does notifying them have consequences in what the UK bank will allow you to do (like perhaps withdraw a Touch & Go facility on a bank card or paying pitifully low interest rates)? Thanks

no issues at all

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, 503726 said:

Finally and as an aside - do Credit Checks (particularly in applying to open a savings account with an existing bank when an annual "bonus" rate comes to an end) link Electoral Register address (here in Thailand) with the UK address I use for this particular bank and others

UK Credit checks do not work for people without a UK address.

Which affects claiming a private pension as well as opening UK accounts.

[jori123]

9 hours ago, smedly said:

people are living here and not delclaring the do, they use a UK address to fraudulently claim UK benefits and/or UK anual pension increases,   if found out they will face a lengthy jail term in the UK, I pay UK taxes so they are stealing from me and every UK tax payer, I hope they get caught - it is simple to expose, cross check passport records and bank records with claims.

 

In saying that I disagree with UK policy not getting anual increases to state pensions while live abroad, it is wrong but that is a different discussion.fraud

 

Fyi - I am not old enough to receive UK state pension yet, I've been livin in Thailand 20+ years  - DWP and Inland revenue have my thai address and so does my UK bank

Where does this nugget of misinformation come from? Go on tell  "lengthy jail term" "fraud" ps no pp checks  just one solid piece of rubbish smacked with jealousy more like,nobody ever has been  apprehended for OAP,take note OAP

[503726]

19 hours ago, smedly said:

no issues at all

Thanks, good to know. Was it with either NatWest of HSBC by any chance? 

Experiences of hassles or being scuppered are sometimes mentioned by other people.

I wonder whether there is variation between organisations or in the situation of people.

You'd think the should be an industry-wide standard to be clearer for all.

 

[503726]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

UK Credit checks do not work for people without a UK address.

Which affects claiming a private pension as well as opening UK accounts.

Thanks. 

Do you know if UK credit checks pick up entries on the Electoral Register? 

I have a UK bank account based at a UK address (so I think a credit check would be consistent) BUT have put a Thai address on the UK Electoral Register.  I can't imagine how the check system might identify an individual beyond the spelling of a name, or whether they bother to but the Electoral Registration was significant for my pension provider. Thoughts welcome! Am I over thinking it?!    : ) 

 

Have you ever heard of HMRC NOT allowing a foreign resident the tax free element of 25% usually available in payments in UK private pension? It'd be a new to me. A government Pension Wise advisor brought it up and suggested I check with others in the jurisdiction of my residence.  It can't be right, can it? Payments out of a private pension to UK tax payers have a tax free element of 25% wherever they are resident don't they? 

 

KR & thanks BT2 & all

[transam]

15 hours ago, jori123 said:

Where does this nugget of misinformation come from? Go on tell  "lengthy jail term" "fraud" ps no pp checks  just one solid piece of rubbish smacked with jealousy more like,nobody ever has been  apprehended for OAP,take note OAP

You snowed in today, sorry to hear you lost your winter fuel payment, must be a blow for you...😥

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, 503726 said:

Do you know if UK credit checks pick up entries on the Electoral Register? 

Yes they do, but it's not a big part of your credit score.

Mine says, "no entry on the electoral register" and suggests my score will improve if I register.

 

Can't answer for tax allowance, as I'm UK resident, but it's 20% tax on taxable pensions not 25%. Suggest you use a different pension advisor if they can't even get the rate right.

 

Really better to stay with a UK address, no proof of life forms, no problems with credit checks, can even use your last UK address as nobody ever checks (even if mail is returned).

[503726]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes they do, but it's not a big part of your credit score.

Mine says, "no entry on the electoral register" and suggests my score will improve if I register.

Hi Brit, 

 

thanks - i'd agree that keeping all addresses in UK is simplest. The comment to you on the Credit Score is about not finding you on the register at the address for your banking. I suppose that is good news for me as they will similarly not find an entry for me at the UK address used for my banks including the one were I'll open a new 1 year savings account. I don't suppose there can be any tie up with the entry on the Electoral Register for an identical name in Thailand so I have been over thinking it. 

 

On the pensions front, I was concerned with the tax free element usually available from a private pension pot (which is 25%) and can be taken either as a lump sum up front (also of 25%) or as part of a the future stream of payments to the pensioner. Income from pensions is taxed, as you say, (apart from any tax free element) so 20% is the most common band applicable to most people. 

 

I was talking to the government service free through Moneyhelper.com called Pension Wise to everyone for guidance on issues to think about concerning drawing pensions. The advisor was flagging the possibility of a general issue (without knowing specifically about Thailand) & as you suggest might be better ignored. 

 

No UK tax payers here comment here on the injustice there would be to them in not receiving the tax free elements of their pensions so it seems like a non issue.

 

I don't want to find out that if I took a lump sum (that the pension company current say includes a 25% tax free element) subsequently I find myself paying tax on it (because the 25% tax free bit isn't allowed to someone living abroad as per Pension Wise's concern) & HMRC levies higher rate tax on most of it.   : {

 

Has anyone had any attempt made to claw back the 25% tax free element usually available in drawing a private pension?

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, 503726 said:

Has anyone had any attempt made to claw back the 25% tax free element usually available in drawing a private pension?

Yeah, I've done it twice, lump sum taxed (withheld) before payment, then just fill in an online claim form to get it back. Took me under 2 weeks each time between filling in the form and being deposited in my UK bank account.

 

But you'll need a UK address to claim your private pension as they do a UK credit check to confirm your identity. I initially tried claiming mine using a Thai address, and they said impossible without a UK address, so I told them to use my original UK address which worked.

[503726]

Aah, I think I've twigged a bit more, thanks again

 

I would have preferred to do it your route & will for applying for a new version of annual savings accounts with a building soc.

 

I was pushed to be on the Electoral Register here for something else. I did it as I am registered with HMRC here and do submit Tax Returns stating non residency.

 

My pension company, unlike yours, say they pay pensions overseas. I suppose it is still an open question whether HMRC will refund the tax free element to someone with a Thai address & non resident though.

 

Before I try it and find out, does anyone reading this had tax levied all of their pension payments from the UK including the 25% expected to tax free & often paid as a lump sum?   It'd be harsh and be as galling as the State Pension freeze must be.

 

KR all & ta in advance

 

[3NUMBAS]

The U.K. gives billions in foreign aid yet doesn’t have an iron dome missile system

against Putin hyper missiles

Putin could wipe out london and nothing to respond

foreign aid goes to many despots like North Korea and other maggots

[theoldgit]

27 minutes ago, 503726 said:

Before I try it and find out, does anyone reading this had tax levied all of their pension payments from the UK including the 25% expected to tax free & often paid as a lump sum?   It'd be harsh and be as galling as the State Pension freeze must be.

As far as l’m aware UK Pensions are taxed at source in the UK.

 

I’m not aware of a 25% tax free rule, but you still get the Personal Allowance of £12,570, which means you are taxed at anything over that at 20 or 40%.

 

If you receive a State Pension, that is not taxed at source but your Personal Allowance by that amount and the reduced allowance is applied to any private pension you might have.

 

My lump sum was paid without any deduction of tax.

 

My State and Private Pensions are paid into my Santander Account in the IoM and l transfer what l need via Wise.

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

As far as l’m aware UK Pensions are taxed at source in the UK.

 

I’m not aware of a 25% tax free rule, but you still get the Personal Allowance of £12,570, which means you are taxed at anything over that at 20 or 40%.

 

If you receive a State Pension, that is not taxed at source but your Personal Allowance by that amount and the reduced allowance is applied to any private pension you might have.

 

My State and Private Pensions are paid into my Santander Account in the IoM and l transfer what l need via Wise.

 

The first 25% withdrawn from your SIPP is tax free. 

[503726]

30 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

The first 25% withdrawn from your SIPP is tax free. 

Hi Will

 

Are there any caveat catches about the drawdown being taken in the Uk by a UK resident or to a UK bank? 

 

My question is whether the first 25% drawdown would become liable to taxation by virtue of someone claiming it to overseas for payment into an overseas account while being not resident in the UK. I can't get my docs lined up without running through that tortuous route, I'm afraid.

 

An advisor from the government Pension Wise service suggested I find check around - the guidance isn't easy so there is no substitute for experience.   

 

Thanks v much

[503726]

For anyone interested

 

Pension Wise help service have said that there will not be an issue for a non resident who receives pension payment in a an overseas account for HMRC in refunding the emergency tax deducted on the tax free element of the pension pot of 25% (that is often taken as a lump sum). HMRC would go further any give credit if the UK tax payer were to pay tax on the pension income in their country of residence (i.e. Thailand) by considering a claim for Double Tax Relief. 

 

Thanks all for conversations

 

[jori123]

16 hours ago, transam said:

You snowed in today, sorry to hear you lost your winter fuel payment, must be a blow for you...😥

Best you can do?  .You really do sound like an 81 year old git ,which you are , and has lost his marbles. Think it's time to take up flying lessons  " no greater love hath a frozen pensioner given,than to lay down his own frozen pension to the benefit of unfrozen pensioners "

[liddelljohn]

British Minimum living wage  according to the government is £22680 per year   State pension for pensioners is £11800 per year so pensions are not even on a living wage UK government is scum