Thai Navy's Submarine Plans Stalled Pending Feasibility Study

[harryviking]

13 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

Thaksin flexing to show the military what's in their best interest.

I wonder how much "pay back" .....🙄

[Joe Boy Walton]

"This situation underscores the nuanced intersection between military needs, international relations, and domestic governance, capturing attention both within Thailand and among its global partners" 

 

This highlights the complex interplay of military requirements, international diplomacy, and internal politics within Thailand. The intricate relationship is not isolated, but rather draws significant attention both domestically and from Thailand's international allies, showcasing the interconnected nature of these three key areas. The situation described reveals the sensitive balance between these often conflicting forces and highlights the need for more corruption, prostitution and drug sales/usage to bolster the cost offsets for a venture of this nature. (I can bull<deleted> too)

[NedR69]

This article leaves out a lot of details, like why the German engine won't be going in a Chinese sub...LOL.  Instead, some China crap engine that has never been tested in submarines, not even China subs, and has known issues that will need resolving, like diesel exhaust venting in crew areas.  Thai thought the Geman engine would come through, but that fell out, then Thai navy brass said ok anyway, just give us the sub with a China engine, we just want our submarine.

[Moonfire]

Great, park it next to the aircraft carrier. The Gulf of Thailand is so shallow that you could see the sub from the air. Might consider spending the money on defensive driving classes,  OK, any driving classes 😄

[FrequentStops]

1 hour ago, CANSIAM said:

Is there a Sonar Training facility here ? I'm sure there are some bright sailors here ready to take the Con, better keep them Subs in the Andaman, I believe the maximum depth of the Gulf of Thailand is 300 ft.  

 

Ummm, ran across this piece a while back while working the face of an-early-Vietnam-war rabbit hole.

TLDR - you can operate a submarine, even a nuke, in the Gulf of Thailand.  But you should be prepared to walk the fine line between a Naval Unit Citation and a court martial for reckless endangerment if you happen to be the skipper...

 

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2008/february/sculpins-lost-mission-nuclear-submarine-vietnam-war

 

[billd766]

50 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

BS... they've already placed the order and paid the deposit.

However the Chinese shipbuilders cannot meet the original specs of a German made engine but have offered an untried Chinese engine instead.

 

If they cannot fulfil the original spec in the the original contract, then the contract should be cancelled and the Chinese shipyard should accept the losses.

[Gandtee]

5 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

It means "just coming into existence".

 

I use it from time to time, along with other long words like wheelbarrow and marmalade.

 

In fact I am considering purchasing a wheelbarrow, to use in my nascent project to grow oranges in my garden, to make marmalade!

Jammy b******d. 😉

[Ebumbu]

If not for submarines, Thailand would have never defeated Laos. It's only natural to upgrade the fleet as vessels become decommissioned (see attached). This had been my Ted Talk. 

[Ebumbu]

DELETE. Accidental double post. 

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, harryviking said:

Oh dear me. Buying a sub from a country where they mostly sink after a short while! Suicide subs!!! Are they completely ignorant in the Navy???

yeah, I heard one of their firsts went out on their trial run and still sits on the bottom somewhere in the S. China sea.  For the Thais to even consider buying such a wasted, and useless military hardware.  Who will they possibly fight, Myanmar? Cambodia? I don't think a sub would them much good against any other country.  As a matter of fact, why should they waste money on a military of much power in the first place?  Almost as bad as the US, who has to Borrow money to give for other countries' military.

[Robo1]

How astounding, considering that the waters around Thailand aren’t really deep enough for submarine operations. -Still “Boy’s will need Toys”

[John Drake]

This is not about buying submarines. It's about having a permanent posting for Chinese submarine "technicians" in a port that effectively will be a Chinese naval asset.

[NoDisplayName]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Originally slated to feature a high-performance German-made MTU396 engine, the plan now includes a Chinese-made CHD620 engine due to unavailability issues.

 

Same-same but not different.

 

It's the same engine.  One is made in Germanyland, the other is a licensed copy produced in the Middle Kingdom.

 

It's like buying a Tesra.  You can get one made in Berlin, or get one from Shanghai.  Only difference is the batteries in the Chinese version don't use cobalt.

[fresher]

Silly me. I always thought it was a real submarine they've been talking about all these years.

[hotchilli]

56 minutes ago, billd766 said:

However the Chinese shipbuilders cannot meet the original specs of a German made engine but have offered an untried Chinese engine instead.

 

If they cannot fulfil the original spec in the the original contract, then the contract should be cancelled and the Chinese shipyard should accept the losses.

And return the deposit.... fat chance.

That's if the full deposit reached the shipyard and some of it didn't disappear.

[lch]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

File photo for reference only. Source: Wikipedia

 

In a development that has left the Thai naval brass treading water, the proposed acquisition of a Chinese-built submarine remains in limbo as Defence Minister Phumtham Wechayachai announced that a "viability study" is still underway.

 

This long-anticipated project, valued at 12.4 billion Thai Baht, concerns the procurement of a Yuan-class S26T submarine. Originally slated to feature a high-performance German-made MTU396 engine, the plan now includes a Chinese-made CHD620 engine due to unavailability issues.

 

The Defence Minister's announcement came in response to an inquiry from the navy’s top commander, Adm. Jiarpon Wongwit, who had been seeking clarity from Phumtham on the current status of the submarine project.

 

This conversation highlights ongoing uncertainty, especially since amendments have been proposed to the original purchase contract to accommodate the engine switch.

 

Phumtham, a new appointee to the Ministry of Defence, emphasized the importance of conducting a thorough "viability study" to ensure the decision aligns with Thailand's best interests.

 

The minister's careful stance reflects the still nascent stage of his tenure, despite taking over from the former defence minister Sutin Khlangsang, who had been involved in earlier discussions around this and similar defence procurements.

 

In the backdrop of this deliberation, the navy has been on edge. The current stalling points to deeper strategic considerations, particularly given that the S26T model in question mimics the Soviet-era Kilo-class submarines.

 

The budding relationship between Thailand and its Chinese counterparts in military technology purchases adds an intriguing angle to the narrative.

 

In a move that perhaps signalled a shift, predecessor Sutin Khlangsang had suggested the navy might pivot to acquiring a frigate instead of the problematic submarine.

 

This proposal was met with swift rejection by naval leaders, indicating a firm commitment within the navy to see the submarine project come to fruition, despite its hurdles.

 

The continuing ambiguity, compounded by the defence minister’s measured approach, leaves the submariners without a clear course.

 

The delay in finalising the decision has strategic implications, as this would mark Thailand’s first such purchase in over six decades.

 

As the study progresses and the high-stakes discussions unfold, the maritime watchers and defence analysts remain keen observers.

 

This situation underscores the nuanced intersection between military needs, international relations, and domestic governance, capturing attention both within Thailand and among its global partners.

 

The outcome of this deliberation could redefine the trajectory of Thailand's naval capabilities for years to come, reported Thai Newsroom.

 

-- 2024-11-28

 

 

Paint it yellow!

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, jippytum said:

Thailand having another submarine is as feasible and useless as having an ashtray on a motorbike. 

 

At least a submarine is designed to go under the waters.

 

[crazykopite]

The whole episode has been an absolute joke for starters eby does the thai navy need a submarine the water around Thailand from what I inderstand are not suitable in depth for a submarine!

[Srikcir]

12 hours ago, webfact said:

the plan now includes a Chinese-made CHD620 engine

Which is not I understand on any other Chinese-made submarine. There's been no details of this engine's development and operational history.

How can engine viability be tested when there's no live operational parameters to compare performance, ie., on another similar submarine?

To be fair, the Chinese Defense Ministry had issued an industrial certificate for the CHD620 generator, and it also received a certificate of approval from Lloyd's Register (based solely on Chinese manufacturer representations?). CHD620 is actually a licensed-manufactured version of the German MTU396 engine aka based on reverse engineering?

However (I have no direct confirmation) the CHD620 engine may have been certified as a submarine electric generator, not serve as a propulsion engine. Maybe if Thailand requires China (versus Thailand) to conduct a month of sea trials for the new submarine, that might clear up any operational concerns.
 

[zepplin]

All they have to do is answer 1 easy question !

 

CAN you HIDE a sub in 70 m of water, the answer is obvious to everyone but the navy …

[renaissanc]

"NO! We want a submarine because the commission we'll receive is more than what we'd get for a frigate." ....... Ooops! Did I let the cat out of the bag?

[PETERTHEEATER]

59 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

At least a submarine is designed to go under the waters.

 

Better check the level in that brake fluid reservoir. Looks low to me.

[Homburg]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Hopefully, it won't leak and be mechanically unreliable like the submarines the UK cheated Canada with.

 

Those issues should have been fully covered in the purchase contract? Caveat emptor methinks!

 

Nevertheless I cannot help feeling that such vitally important purchase considerations may not be carefully considered in Thailand's case.  The question of "commission" will not doubt overshadow all other considerations, in fact it is probable that the only reason Thailand tried so hard to acquire the German engine rather than the Chinese engine was because it cost more and so gave a greater "commission". 

[G_Money]

I see no need for Thailand to have a submarine considering the AO, Gulf of Thailand and their natural maritime enemies.

 

If they do they also need to invest in a Submarine Rescue Ship.  

Chances are high they’ll need one.

 

 

[trainman34014]

Must be a toss up which will ever come to fruition first.....High Speed Trains or Submarines.   Both projects a complete waste of money when the Country could do with Billions of Baht being spent on Clean Tap Water, getting all those disgusting Electrical Wires underground, proper Sewerage Systems with Pumping Stations etc and Road Surfaces that don't break up a month after they are laid !

[jaideedave]

As an ex submariner I think it's a waste of money and resources like the aircraft carrier they own.

The max depth of the gulf is 85 meters. The boat is 77 meters. That is about 1 boat length + or - . I suppose it would be easy to find in an emergency if the prop was sticking out .

Who are they defending against? Myanmar, Cambodia. Laos is landlocked.

China? As someone mentioned maybe there are some behind closed doors deals being worked on for everyones mutual benefit. TIT

FYI the Persian Gulf is only 90 meters deep and the Yanks have nuke boats there.

 

[AndreasHG]

9 hours ago, Gsxrnz said:

Nobody in the entire English-speaking world uses the word "nascent", or knows what it means. 

 

Unfortunately, nowadays very few people receive an adequate education.

 

 

 

[Peabody]

5 hours ago, NatureFilm said:

I thought there were better ways to spend the precious money 

Guaranteed >30% of the money has already been distributed. That's why they can't cancel the contract

[lwn320]

Submarines ? Who would volunteer to become a Thai submariner ???

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

CHD620 is actually a licensed-manufactured version of the German MTU396 engine aka based on reverse engineering?

 

No reverse engineering required.  The exact same engine is manufactured under license.  Germany provided the blueprints, which gets around EU restrictions on technology transfer to the Middle Kingdom.

 

Interestingly, it seems the Germans will authorize the Chinese to sell a similar submarine to Indonesia with Germanyland manufactured engines.  Just not to Thailand.