Thai lawyer argues most expats won’t be impacted by personal income tax

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

The tax expert is saying as foreigners we can contest the new interpretation of the tax rules, not law, because it isn't law, by the revenue department. This is freely admitted by Siam Legal.

 

We can only contest and sue in the court after we have received a tax bill., or an assessable tax bill, based on what we declare or are assessed on.

 

Sure, that is what the guy says in the the Siam Legal Video.

 

But lets be serious for a minute Scouse. Is anyone really going start legal proceedings for something like a Baht 5000 tax bill ?
 

No ide what the legal costs would be, but I have no doubt that they would be many multiples of that Baht 5000 tax bill.

 

I think what he was referring to was some Thai Billionaire challenging it.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

Yes,

 

That seems to be the case in many situations and these firms feeding on worry to drum up business.

Have to say, the free tax information provided by expat tax has been exceptional.

[redwood1]

13 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes,agreed, I think that's always been the purpose of these threads is to motivate people to do just that......many have.

 

No the purpose of all the tax threads it seems to me is for people to try and ram their opinions down other peoples throats....

 

People have already decided what they will or will not do ages ago.....And nothing under the sun will be changing their minds EVER....

 

But some here seem to have some strange motivation to try and round up the wayward sheep....To get them onboard with the tax plan...

[black tabby12345]

9 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

That seems to be the case in many situations and these firms feeding on worry to drum up business.

 

Perfect example  of the Scare Tactics.

Trying to Capitalize other people's worry.

While they are as unsure as anyone else.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, redwood1 said:

 

No the purpose of all the tax threads it seems to me is for people to try and ram their opinions down other peoples throats....

 

People have already decided what they will or will not do ages ago.....And nothing under the sun will be changing their minds EVER....

 

But some here seem to have some strange motivation to try and round up the wayward sheep....To get them onboard with the tax plan...

You have decided, maybe.....thousands don't even understand anything about the subject, new members ask basic questions every day. Who's going to help them, you......you haven't for the past year!

[zepplin]

On 12/7/2024 at 8:09 PM, Moonlover said:

This article, posted in the Pattaya Mail, came to my attention this morning. Although it already appears in another thread, I felt that it is important enough to warrant its own heading. My thanks to @Scouse123 posting this earlier.

 

Thai lawyer argues most expats won’t be impacted by personal income tax

 

Do be sure to watch the short video.

The gov wouldn’t have 1% of the qualified tax agents that speak and read all the different languages of all the expats here and understand exactly when the money was made that difficult people brought here! It’s absurd to think otherwise… TIT

[Thingamabob]

On 12/8/2024 at 7:26 AM, cooked said:

1. My granddaughter spent the summer allocating TIN numbers to people that didn't already have one, and this included a few Farangs.

2. I have a Thai ID card for Farangs, and she tells me that the number on that card is the same as your TIN. So all you guys that have the pink card don't need to worry about that. 

3. I watched the video and decided that it was useless, at least in my case.

4. At the local tax office they don't know what is going to happen, and they will likely as not interpret all this in their own inimitable, Thai fashion. So WAIT and see.

4. I asked at Immigration, their reply was "Why worry about something that hasn't happened yet?". I agree.

Just WAIT

Not very smart to beg the question at Immigration. Asking for problems for yourself, and for the rest of us

[NanLaew]

10 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

No the purpose of all the tax threads it seems to me is for people to try and ram their opinions down other peoples throats....

 

People have already decided what they will or will not do ages ago.....And nothing under the sun will be changing their minds EVER....

 

But some here seem to have some strange motivation to try and round up the wayward sheep....To get them onboard with the tax plan...

 

And this appears to be boiling your piss.

 

Talk about "strange motivation", eh?

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Not very smart to beg the question at Immigration. Asking for problems for yourself, and for the rest of us

 

Why? Immigration isn't the Revenue Department.

[Yumthai]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

But lets be serious for a minute Scouse. Is anyone really going start legal proceedings for something like a Baht 5000 tax bill ?

In case you don't file because you self-assess you have no tax to pay, there can be different outcomes:

- Nothing happens because nobody will ever knock at your door (most probable imo).

- TRD addresses you a small tax bill because they assess for some reason you should have paid taxes. Then rather pay the few thousands baht unless you can easily prove TRD made a mistake.

- TRD addresses you a big tax bill because they assess for some reason you should have paid big taxes. Then it could be cheaper to get to the court and challenge their interpretation of the rules.

 

[jayboy]

21 minutes ago, black tabby12345 said:

Unlike those  from some accounting  firms whose only thought is to rip off foreigners taking advantage of their anxiety.

 

I don't recognize this at all.The established accounting firms are very well positioned to give sound tax advice, and by definition they will or should be professional in their dealings with clients.

 

I would be more concerned about the dodgy legal firms where I think your criticism has more application.Their market is often the less sophisticated expatriate.The warning signs are a unconvincing web presence, some oily  foreigner in lead position and young inexperienced Thai legal staff.

 

When you hear one of these hustlers pushing a tax webinar, head for the hills.

[Upnotover]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Why? Immigration isn't the Revenue Department.

I think that was his point.

[Photoguy21]

On 12/7/2024 at 8:19 PM, mfd101 said:

"Mr Hart stresses that Thai financial laws have not changed and states that “most” foreigners who are tax residents are ill-advised to request a TIN number from their local TRD.  Although the video does not elaborate on “most”, it appears to include those resident in Thailand for at least 180 days in 2024 who are dependent on pensions pre-taxed in their first country.  It is this large, mainly retiree group which has attracted the greatest attention."

 

What Mr Hart appears not to know or understand is that at least some expats (eg Australians) have been forced by their home banks - under threat of having their bank accounts closed - to get and record in Oz their TIN. All based on the perfectly legitimate & sensible international agreements on sharing financial/taxation information with the aim of reducing international tax evasion.

I don't understand all of this as the UK and Thailand has a tax agreement so if the amount is taxed at what ever rate in the UK, why should it be potentially further taxed in Thailand? 

 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

I don't understand all of this as the UK and Thailand has a tax agreement so if the amount is taxed at what ever rate in the UK, why should it be potentially further taxed in Thailand? 

@redwood1 why not answer this poster s query and be helpful for once? I could answer but then I'll be accused of ramming my opinions down everyone's throats!

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

In case you don't file because you self-assess you have no tax to pay, there can be different outcomes:

- Nothing happens because nobody will ever knock at your door (most probable imo).

- TRD addresses you a small tax bill because they assess for some reason you should have paid taxes. Then rather pay the few thousands baht unless you can easily prove TRD made a mistake.

- TRD addresses you a big tax bill because they assess for some reason you should have paid big taxes. Then it could be cheaper to get to the court and challenge their interpretation of the rules.

 

 

Thanks for your input. Yet again you miss the point.

 

Which is that according to the Siam Legal video, someone could legally challenge the ' Interpretation of the new rules '

 

For anyone that has an issue with the amount of tax that has been  assessed by the Revenue Dept, there is a grievance procedure.

 

Which can be found here

 

Quote

2. Appeal in dispute of tax assessment

In the case where a taxpayer disagrees with the assessment made by the assessment officer, he has the right to appeal to the Commission of Appeals (in the form P.S.6) within 30 days starting from the day which an assessment notice has been received.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/23517.html

 

2 very distinct and different things.

[Thingamabob]

34 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Why? Immigration isn't the Revenue Department.

I give up. Have a nice day.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Upnotover said:

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Why? Immigration isn't the Revenue Department.

I think that was his point.

 

Point?

 

How is asking about tax issues at the immigration office, "Asking for problems for yourself, and for the rest of us"?

 

Some folks got to be scared of something, I guess.

[Jaggg88]

On 12/8/2024 at 7:23 AM, henryford1958 said:

Despite all the posts i still don't know as a retired expat living off a pre taxed UK pension, do i submit a tax return next year or not. I already had a TIN.

You only have to file a tax return if you have a tax liability in Thailand and have spent more than 180 days here. A tax liability could stem from you bringing untaxed money onshore, earning dividend payments from investments in Thailand, earning money from Thai business ownership etc. If the only funds you bring to Thailand are already taxed in your home country and they have a double taxation agreement then you do not have a tax liability in Thailand.

[The Cyclist]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Have to say, the free tax information provided by expat tax has been exceptional.

 

Here is the latest from expat tax

 

 

 

No doubt some will come along claimimg fake news and conspiracy.

[chiang mai]

You see the problem. New posters cone along every day and ask questions about tax, often it's the same old questions, time and time again. If some of us answer and help that poster by offering an opinion, trolls come along and accuse that person of "repeatedly ramming opinions down members throats", If nobody answers, the poster remains in the dark and eventually has to blow 10k on a tax accountant who quite often doesn't know much more than many members and ends up selling their services for even more.

 

So what's the right answer? Stay quiet, don't help and throw people to the wolves because most people couldn't tell the difference between a good tax consultancy service and a bad one! Or, we could leave it to other members to answer the questions but they refuse to do so, as we've seen in this thread. It's a Catch22.

[The Cyclist]

41 minutes ago, Jaggg88 said:

If the only funds you bring to Thailand are already taxed in your home country and they have a double taxation agreement then you do not have a tax liability in Thailand.

 

This is absolute garbage, to put it bluntly.

[kimothai]

On 12/8/2024 at 7:24 AM, BritManToo said:

Wait .......... Do nothing ...... See what happens

BINGO!  My sentiments exactly.  

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, kimothai said:

BINGO!  My sentiments exactly.  

Wait how long, three months, one year, three years?

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Wait how long, three months, one year, three years?

I thought you weren't going to post on this subject again?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I thought you weren't going to post on this subject again?

So answer the question.

[Jaggg88]

13 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

This is absolute garbage, to put it bluntly.

I  look forward to you supplying the evidence

[The Cyclist]

Just now, Jaggg88 said:

I  look forward to you supplying the evidence

 

It has been provided on numerous occasions.

 

That you cannot understand it, is your issue to deal with.

[kimothai]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Wait how long, three months, one year, three years?

I'll wait until the law is published in the Royal Thai Gazette.  If it isn't in the gazette, it's just a rumor.  It could take years if it even happens at all.  

[chiang mai]

58 minutes ago, Jaggg88 said:

You only have to file a tax return if you have a tax liability in Thailand and have spent more than 180 days here. A tax liability could stem from you bringing untaxed money onshore, earning dividend payments from investments in Thailand, earning money from Thai business ownership etc. If the only funds you bring to Thailand are already taxed in your home country and they have a double taxation agreement then you do not have a tax liability in Thailand.

You appear not to understand how DTA's work. As a general rule, if you invoke a DTA you lose the right to any home country personal allowance, and the rate of tax in that country. Instead, you assume the allowances given to you by your country of tax residency, along with that country's personal allowances. This may result in your income being repriced for tax with any difference being either, paid by the tax payer or issued as a credit to the tax payer.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, kimothai said:

I'll wait until the law is published in the Royal Thai Gazette.  If it isn't in the gazette, it's just a rumor.  It could take years if it even happens at all.  

The reinterpretation of the tax laws as described in Por 161 and Por 162 aren't changes in the law, they are simply reinterpretations of an existing law. Our understanding is that does not require to be notified via the gazette.