Did Trump bring shame upon the US with his Zelensky lecture?

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, blaze master said:

 

I find many trans people to be outright bullies.

[0ffshore360]

If nothing else Trump and Vance have succeeded in the goal of major isolation of the US in almost every aspect.

Only desperate Diplomatic envoys that retain any need for the US will venture  near having witnessed the ambush Zelensky experienced .

Trade agreements will become tenuous to the detriment of the US  as within it's imposed isolationary  state will realize it will lack the resources to rebuild the long lost  capacity to self service it's domestic expectations.

Inevitably and eventually the  rising war hawks desiring a combat  medal will sit heavily on Trump's neck in demand for the historical remedy for objection to insignificant control.

[Yellowtail]

Blackrock market cap's about $150B, how much are they going to help Ukraine? 

[CANSIAM]

I think we are exceeding Trump's  "I'll have this war stopped in 24 hours when I take office"........what a shakedown....😉

[blaze master]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Blackrock market cap's about $150B, how much are they going to help Ukraine? 

 

As much as their first ever non bid private contract allows. Assets valued at over 11 trillion.

[Kinnock]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

By behave are you suggesting that he should have taken a knee, and kissed the ring, not talked back and been completely compliant?

 

Yes.  If his troops can fight and die for their country, he can swallow his pride and at least pretend to listen .... that's just diplomacy, common sense and personal sacrifice. 

 

He must have had a briefing about the two big egos he was meeting, but he was unable to play the game .... so now it may be game over for Ukraine.

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Damn ... all them Big Macs going to waste.  Hope they invited a tour group to the lunch 😎

 

Z should have thrown the towel in years ago, and day one.   Would have saved lives & territory.  NO, the idiot listened to the war mongers' lies.  Oh well, you can't fix stupid.

 

JD steppin' up.  Can't wait till he's President Vance in 2028 👍

So Zelensky should have left on the ride offered, instead of asking for ammunition. Ukraine completely occupied, Baltic States next on Putin's shopping list.

 

If Trump and Vance are so great, why are you here?

 

As you say, you can't fix stupid.

 

 

[Purdey]

Trump and Vance played the role of Xerxes well. Echoes of Zelinsky's voice shouting "This is Sparta!" as he left the White House stay in the memory.

[safarimike11]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I watched that cringe worthy lecture that Trump gave Zelensky, and it caused me to be very ashamed of my nationality. This man seems to be deliberately sabotaging America's influence throughout the world on a daily basis, and he seems to be grossly overestimating the influence of America.

 

Does anybody agree with me? 

 

The typical Saint Donald defenders need not reply, though no doubt you will. 

 

Earlier Friday, Trump cut the meeting short with Zelensky, said the Ukrainian leader is "not ready" for peace with Russia in an extraordinary meltdown in the Oval Office that threw question marks over chances for a truce. Zelensky was meant to be making a full White House visit to sign a US-Ukrainian deal for joint exploitation of Ukraine's mineral resources, as part of a post-war recovery in a US-brokered peace deal.

 

Instead, an ugly clash blew up almost immediately in the Oval Office where Trump and Vice President JD Vance shouted at Zelensky, accusing him of not being thankful for US help in the three-year war against Russian invasion. Trump berated Zelensky, telling him to be more "thankful" and that without US assistance Ukraine would have been conquered by Russia. "You're either going to make a deal or we're out," Trump added. "And if we're out, you'll fight it out and I don't think it's going to be pretty."

 

Zelensky left in his motorcade shortly after, without holding a planned joint press conference. The resources deal was left unsigned, the White House said. Trump took to his Truth Social platform to castigate Zelensky saying "he disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office." Zelensky is "not ready for Peace," Trump wrote. "He can come back when he is ready for Peace."

 

 

3 years ago, when Russia invaded Ukraine, I was of the opinion that Putin did it to stop Ukraine joining NATO/NATO accepting Ukraine as a member. However, I moved towards the mainstream (I imagine) of views in that Russia was the bad guy on invading Ukraine. 3 years on though, I broadly agree with Trump - in that the only was to end the war is to try to seek an agreement with Russia; Ukraine - even with the assistance of various European countries, will never win the war against Russia. A lot of armchair warriors will no-doubt disagree with me, but this is the only way to end the war; if not, maybe Putin will get China on board on his side besides North Korea... what's to stop him? (Talk about "cringeworthy"... it is not as cringeworthy as Biden & Co's total retreat from Afghanistan; total respect to all that served there).

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Yes.  If his troops can fight and die for their country, he can swallow his pride and at least pretend to listen .... that's just diplomacy, common sense and personal sacrifice. 

 

He must have had a briefing about the two big egos he was meeting, but he was unable to play the game .... so now it may be game over for Ukraine.

Zelensky had a choice. If he was meek, the Ukrainians fighting for him would have wondered what they were fighting for.

 

It was obviously a setup by a coward and bully, who could not take him on alone, and needed Vance to fire the bullets for him.

 

He has my respect as a hero for his people. OTOH, my respect for Trump, Vance and the 50% of Americans who voted for them went down the toilet quite some time ago.

 

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, safarimike11 said:

3 years ago, when Russia invaded Ukraine, I was of the opinion that Putin did it to stop Ukraine joining NATO/NATO accepting Ukraine as a member. However, I moved towards the mainstream (I imagine) of views in that Russia was the bad guy on invading Ukraine. 3 years on though, I broadly agree with Trump - in that the only was to end the war is to try to seek an agreement with Russia; Ukraine - even with the assistance of various European countries, will never win the war against Russia. A lot of armchair warriors will no-doubt disagree with me, but this is the only way to end the war; if not, maybe Putin will get China on board on his side besides North Korea... what's to stop him? (Talk about "cringeworthy"... it is not as cringeworthy as Biden & Co's total retreat from Afghanistan; total respect to all that served there).

Any agreement with Putin is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

Stop revising history. It was the Trump deal with the Taliban that left Biden to try and clean up the mess.

[jvs]

7 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Yes Zelinsky is a real man.

Yes he is and he is a much better man then i am.

I would have blown my lid and punched some one.

[frank83628]

Seems what Vance said about Ukrainian males being force to fight isn't being talked about much... guess that doesn't fit the narrative aye

[Harrisfan]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

So Zelensky should have left on the ride offered, instead of asking for ammunition. Ukraine completely occupied, Baltic States next on Putin's shopping list.

 

If Trump and Vance are so great, why are you here?

 

As you say, you can't fix stupid.

 

 

True last sentence. 

[Harrisfan]

2 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Seems what Vance said about Ukrainian males being force to fight isn't being talked about much... guess that doesn't fit the narrative aye

Vance is twice as smart as Z. Z fooled Biden. Game is up.

[Harrisfan]

6 minutes ago, jvs said:

Yes he is and he is a much better man then i am.

I would have blown my lid and punched some one.

Then kicked out. Trump should have decked the little man. 

[Harrisfan]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Zelensky had a choice. If he was meek, the Ukrainians fighting for him would have wondered what they were fighting for.

 

It was obviously a setup by a coward and bully, who could not take him on alone, and needed Vance to fire the bullets for him.

 

He has my respect as a hero for his people. OTOH, my respect for Trump, Vance and the 50% of Americans who voted for them went down the toilet quite some time ago.

 

 

You are a socialist. You hated everyone on the right for 50 years. Nobody is fooled by your comments or alarmism.

[safarimike11]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Any agreement with Putin is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

Stop revising history. It was the Trump deal with the Taliban that left Biden to try and clean up the mess.

Ha! That's funny.

[Hellfire]

Does this orange clown seriously believe that all that Putin wants is to get some modest chunks of the ukrainian territory? I know that most of his idiot supporters do believe this narrative but isn’t Trump supposed to be a little bit more intelligent than his illiterate fans (99% of whom will not be able to identify Ukraine’s location on the geographic map)?

[connda]

Did Trump bring shame upon the US with his Zelensky lecture?

 

Nope. He put Zelensky and Europe on notice: Stop the war and work on peace.  But if you want war - you're on your own, the US isn't footing the bill any longer.  Of course, the progressive Left and Democrats are now war-loving war-mongers and haters of all Russians.  Which I find amazing because those are the same people I marched with in anti-Vietnam war marches in the 60s and 70s. Then you wonder why so many actual old school liberal Democrats are now anti-war conservatives.

Btw, Zelensky is an embarrassment.  I'm sorry, but protocol and decorum of heads of states require players to dress respectfully in business attire and conduct themselves with discipline.  You don't walk into the President to the United States Oval Office in mock-up of army fatigues and then begin to argue with the President and his staff and make demands.  He got what he asked for: A beat down.  I'd give him 60 days or less and then he'll either be out of office or dead. Probably the latter.

[Harrisfan]

Ukrainian soldiers are facing significant challenges and pressures as the country struggles to maintain its military forces. Some Ukrainian men are being forced to join the military despite their reluctance, with mobilization squads reportedly removing individuals from buses and bars to take them to enlistment centers. These squads are accused of using heavy-handed tactics to locate and force men to join the military, which has led to concerns about the morale and well-being of these soldiers.34

Additionally, the Ukrainian government has implemented stricter measures to prevent men from avoiding conscription, including the possibility of losing driving licenses, having bank accounts frozen, and property seized for draft evasion.23 The government has also considered lowering the minimum conscription age from 27 to 25 to bolster its forces.2

On the other hand, some Ukrainian men are fleeing the country to avoid being conscripted, and others are seeking ways to dodge recruitment officers.23 This has led to a divide in Ukrainian society, with some criticizing those who avoid the draft, arguing that it weakens the country's war effort.23

Moreover, the Ukrainian military has started recruiting prisoners who are willing to enlist, offering them conditional early release. This initiative aims to strengthen the military forces and provide prisoners with a chance to rebuild their lives.3

In occupied areas of Ukraine, Russian authorities are also forcing Ukrainian civilians to serve in the Russian military, which is considered a war crime.5 These actions have led to reports of detainees being pressured to join Russian forces through intimidation, threats, and propaganda.

[connda]

6 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

The left is going crazy over this. Trump wants to stop war and they hate him for it. Who can understand this?

Yeah - the Left I know was Anti-War. The Left of today are War-Hawk maniacs. They want the world in flames.  Well, as long as they don't have to fight the wars themselves.  They want everyone else to do the fighting and dying. Just not them. 

[Hellfire]

11 minutes ago, connda said:

Did Trump bring shame upon the US with his Zelensky lecture?

 

Nope. He put Zelensky and Europe on notice: Stop the war and work on peace.  But if you want war - you're on your own, the US isn't footing the bill any longer.  Of course, the progressive Left and Democrats are now war-loving war-mongers and haters of all Russians.  Which I find amazing because those are the same people I marched with in anti-Vietnam war marches in the 60s and 70s. Then you wonder why so many actual old school liberal Democrats are now anti-war conservatives.

Btw, Zelensky is an embarrassment.  I'm sorry, but protocol and decorum of heads of states require players to dress respectfully in business attire and conduct themselves with discipline.  You don't walk into the President to the United States Oval Office in mock-up of army fatigues and then begin to argue with the President and his staff and make demands.  He got what he asked for: A beat down.  I'd give him 60 days or less and then he'll either be out of office or dead. Probably the latter.

When somebody attacks you and you ask him to stop and agree to all his demands - this is not what in normal human language can be described using the word “peace”. Much more suitable words are “surrender” and “capitulation”. Ukrainians and their president want peace, but not capitulation. 

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

Does this orange clown seriously believe that all that Putin wants is to get some modest chunks of the ukrainian territory? I know that most of his idiot supporters do believe this narrative but isn’t Trump supposed to be a little bit more intelligent than his illiterate fans (99% of whom will not be able to identify Ukraine’s location on the geographic map)?

My guess: no repatriation payments to Ukraine, no NATO membership, no EU membership, keep the Crimea, splitting the minerals 50-50 between Russia and US.

[frank83628]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Any agreement with Putin is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

Stop revising history. It was the Trump deal with the Taliban that left Biden to try and clean up the mess.

Biden handled he withdrawal terribly. We all saw the mayhem, Taliban retook everything in a matter of hours, the Afghan government and army ran away.  F all to do with Trump.

The US broke all the agreements fromexoanding NATO East, the 2014 coup, the Minsk agreements.

 

[black tabby12345]

Did Trump bring shame upon the US...

 

Doesn't surprise me anymore.

How many time did he do so?

Calling Haiti <deleted> hole, years ago.

Recent remark of Military takeover of Panama and Greenland...

 

 

[Hellfire]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

Yeah - the Left I know was Anti-War. The Left of today are War-Hawk maniacs. They want the world in flames.  Well, as long as they don't have to fight the wars themselves.  They want everyone else to do the fighting and dying. Just not them. 

What next? Noble peace price for Putin? Unlike those bloody leftists he is the one who truly wants peace and is ready to sign it any moment. Those ukrainian extremists are the warmongering thugs.

[Hellfire]

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

My guess: no repatriation payments to Ukraine, no NATO membership, no EU membership, keep the Crimea, splitting the minerals 50-50 between Russia and US.

Reminds me Stalin-Hitler pact regarding Poland. Some clowns who never went to normal school or even read a single book in their life still find this kind of solutions for international affairs viable.

[mogandave]

1 hour ago, black tabby12345 said:

Did Trump bring shame upon the US...

 

Doesn't surprise me anymore.

How many time did he do so?

Calling Haiti <deleted> hole, years ago.

Recent remark of Military takeover of Panama and Greenland...

 

 

Haiti is s <deleted>hole, Panama has given China the boot and Denmark has really stepped up their support for Greenland. 

[andersonat]

 

The American Right-Wing *detest* all-Things-"Communist", and use the word *continually* to characterise/criticise/demonise all-Things-Democrat.

 

  --  But don't they feel a tad out-of-place while America sidles up politically alongside ("Ex-Communist"/Totalitarian) Russia and especially ("Communist") China ?