Ukraine must cede territory in peace talks, says US

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/11/2025 at 2:57 PM, Harrisfan said:

Trump is a billionaire. 

They are probably too full of hate to care about reality. They've been making it up since he announced his candidacy. Lefty propaganda at it's most effective.

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Let me see, you want people to say thanks for stopping the killing when in fact trump stopped giving aide funding, intelligence and arms to Ukraine tp defend themselves while allowing Russia to increase bombing and shelling and killing?  Have I got that straight?   Hmmmm and what planet do you live on?

 

What?  Funding that allowed Ukrainians to keep fighting and dying, but didn't come close to allowing them to actually win?  That would take foreign boots on the ground and risk WW3 and Armageddon.

 

The sooner the money dries up, the sooner the killing will stop.  On both sides.  Then they can start spending that money on rebuilding.

 

[dinsdale]

7 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

No you do not appear to be a Putin sympathizer (though you might be), more a weak morally incoherent appeaser like Britain's Neville Chamberlain who thought that wickedness could be brought off by (someone else's) sacrifice. It couldn't then and it can't now.

 

 

What I'm not is an idiot. The fact that Russia is steadily moving west and the Kursk salient has collapsed has nothing to do with appeasement. It's reality which is something some on here have seem to have completely lost sight of.

[NumbNut]

52 minutes ago, TedG said:

Jealous?

Nah, I don't want to grab your tip

[thaibeachlovers]

On 3/11/2025 at 6:07 PM, BexMan said:

If the aim is to save lives, stopping the flow of information to Ukraine will have the opposite effect. Stopping the supply of defensive Patriot missiles to protect against incoming missiles will also cost lives. The Russians are now going after the Patriot launch systems, so Ukraines ability to defend itself, and save lives, is now being permanently degraded.

It'll stop as soon as Zelensky agrees to negotiate. That he will be at a disadvantage compared to prior to the invasion is his fault.

[dinsdale]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It'll stop as soon as Zelensky agrees to negotiate. That he will be at a disadvantage compared to prior to the invasion is his fault.

Zelenky's not the problem. He'll negotiate he has no choice. Putin is the problem. He wants an end to the war not a ceasefire and wants most of the territory he's captured.

[TedG]

34 minutes ago, xylophone said:

All agreed, signed and sealed by trump and co.........I can explain it for you but I can't understand it for you. Try a little harder dude.

Dude…you are wrong.  Biden made the final call.  

[TedG]

16 minutes ago, NumbNut said:

Nah, I don't want to grab your tip

You sure? 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Zelenky's not the problem. He'll negotiate he has no choice. Putin is the problem. He wants an end to the war not a ceasefire and wants most of the territory he's captured.

Putin's winning. Would the US have just stopped after Coral Sea ( they won ) and let the Japanese carry on elsewhere?

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Zelenky's not the problem. He'll negotiate he has no choice. Putin is the problem. He wants an end to the war not a ceasefire and wants most of the territory he's captured.

Putin never expected nor claimed that the conflict would be over in 3 days. That’s just the usual western propaganda hogwash. However, I don’t think he intended for it to last this long either. How long do you think he will be able and willing to carry on until his stated objectives (no NATO membership, neutrality, demilitarisation) are met?

 

As NATO membership is clearly an existential threat to Russia, I don’t see that he has a choice but to carry on to the very end. I’m sure he will continue to get support from the global majority in propping up his economy. After all, it’s also in their interests that the west, especially America, is bogged down in an unwinnable conflict.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

He wants an end to the war not a ceasefire

Likely he suspects it would be used to conscript more men and build up their equipment, which he obviously doesn't want. I agree he wants an end, and he keeps what he has PERIOD.

[TedG]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

How many opposed to defending Ukraine now were fist pumping in October 2001 when Bush sent in the special forces to support the North Alliance in Afghanistan, or cheered when that US Army  soldier climbed up on that statue of Saddam Hussein to attach a tow rope in front of a rapturous crowd?

 

Most of you lot would have been thereclapping the troops, warching the Pentagon bomb videos.

 

The brave person breaks up the fight, defends the weak. The coward walks on by, saying its nothing to do with me.

 

Normally soldiers go off to war gung ho, but return, touched by the realities. For many, that makes them more compassionate, whether that manifests as a pacifist tendancy, campaigning for disarmament, such as Ron Kovic, or it makes them more determined to stand up to the bully, like Nate Vance. But curiously, his cousin, JD, came back from Iraq utterly indifferent to the suffering of foreigners; he's said he doesn't care about Ukrainians.

 

WW1 happened because of galloping Nationalism and Imperial Intent. WW2 happened because of seething resentment and appeasement. 911 happened because of indifference and don't care. Ukraine is happening because of all of these.

 

What the <deleted> does this have to do with the price of tea in China? 

[TedG]

53 minutes ago, billd766 said:

True, BUT only after Trump made the original decision without even consulting the Afghan government and dumping the whole mess and responsibility to ex President Biden, who in turn managed to negotiate an extra few weeks. Not really long enough, but at least he tried.

 

Did you miss that bit, or are you so biased that you simply ignored it?

 

Today is a deeply sad anniversary. One year ago, the Taliban seized Kabul, the Afghan government collapsed, and U.S. President Joe Biden ordered a hasty and chaotic evacuation from Afghanistan. When the crisis ended two weeks later, 13 U.S. service members had been killed and hundreds or more U.S. citizens had been left behind to fend for themselves under the Taliban’s brutal rule.

 

After taking office, Biden undertook a superficial review of our Afghanistan policy—one that totally ignored the advice of his top military advisor and his commanders on the ground. On April 14, 2021, he reversed the Trump administration’s conditions-based drawdown policy and announced that all U.S. forces would be withdrawn from Afghanistan by Sept. 11 of that year, whether or not the Taliban had met its commitments under the 2020 agreement.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/15/afghanistan-withdrawal-pullout-military-taliban-chaos-evacuation-biden-inhofe/

[worgeordie]

Why must Ukraine cede its own land , just because the Americans say so ,

great way to start a negotiation , then in a couple of years when Russia

has strengthened its army ,it will try to take the rest of Ukraine ,Russia

needs to piss off back to Russia and stay there....

 

regards Worgeordie 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I’m sure he will continue to get support from the global majority in propping up his economy. After all, it’s also in their interests that the west, especially America, is bogged down in an unwinnable conflict.

You bring up something that the Z lovers overlook or ignore. Only some western countries support Ukraine. The rest of the world either ignores it or wants America to suffer.

I'm pretty sure more than a few leaders rejoice every time the US suffers a setback.

[TedG]

44 minutes ago, xylophone said:

All agreed, signed and sealed by trump and co.........I can explain it for you but I can't understand it for you. Try a little harder dude.

After taking office, Biden undertook a superficial review of our Afghanistan policy—one that totally ignored the advice of his top military advisor and his commanders on the ground. On April 14, 2021, he reversed the Trump administration’s conditions-based drawdown policy and announced that all U.S. forces would be withdrawn from Afghanistan by Sept. 11 of that year, whether or not the Taliban had met its commitments under the 2020 agreement.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/08/15/afghanistan-withdrawal-pullout-military-taliban-chaos-evacuation-biden-inhofe/

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, worgeordie said:

Why must Ukraine cede its own land , just because the Americans say so ,

great way to start a negotiation , then in a couple of years when Russia

has strengthened its army ,it will try to take the rest of Ukraine ,Russia

needs to piss off back to Russia and stay there....

 

regards Worgeordie 

Can I borrow your crystal ball. I want some winning lotto numbers.

 

How many dead Ukrainians are acceptable to try and keep that land?

[NumbNut]

19 minutes ago, TedG said:

You sure? 

Yeah I'm sure. How can I anyways, you've got hold it all the time

[worgeordie]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Can I borrow your crystal ball. I want some winning lotto numbers.

 

How many dead Ukrainians are acceptable to try and keep that land?

Or Russians to take it ... you think they are doing so good , lottery number 462974 it's a winner

I am sure if the Germans had   landed in England we would have fought too the last man standing  and

it's the same for the Ukraine people.

 

regards worgeordie

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

I am sure if the Germans had   landed in England we would have fought too the last man standing

I bet they would not have. They would have put up a good show and then done what any sane people do- surrender in the face of certain death. At that time they didn't know about the death camps and all that.

 

For proof, I give you Singapore, and the humiliating surrender.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Or Russians to take it ... you think they are doing so good

I made no such claim. You made that up. All I'm saying is that they are winning, because that is a fact. Ukraine is losing in the east, almost lost in Kursk. Game over.

[jayboy]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are insults all you have? Apparently.

So go ahead and insult me- I'll enjoy the comedy.

 

There is a broader point about the consequences of appeasement - which of course you ignore.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

 

There is a broader point about the consequences of appeasement - which of course you ignore.

I ignore nothing but it's of no importance in the present situation. The war is being won by Russia, PERIOD.

 

[worgeordie]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I made no such claim. You made that up. All I'm saying is that they are winning, because that is a fact. Ukraine is losing in the east, almost lost in Kursk. Game over.

You only named Ukraine , there are two in this war ,Trump thinks and has said it , because Russia

has lots a lot of people and equipment that Russia in a settlement should keep the land it has stolen.

 

regards Worgeordie

[nauseus]

On 3/12/2025 at 10:06 AM, xylophone said:

All agreed, signed and sealed by trump and co, without including the Afghan Government and he is still trying  to do the same here, by excluding the Ukraine government; stupid is as stupid does.

.

The Trump administration in February 2020 negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban that excluded the Afghan government, freed 5,000 imprisoned Taliban soldiers and set a date certain of May 1, 2021, for the final withdrawal.

And the Trump administration kept to the pact, reducing U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500, even though the Taliban continued to attack Afghan government forces and welcomed al-Qaeda terrorists into the Taliban leadership.

 

Stupid (non) comparison on any case. The US has no troops in Ukraine.

[nauseus]

22 hours ago, xylophone said:

Just goes to show that the old saying "Mum knows best" is totally correct in this case................

 

 

boringer  and boringer ...

[nauseus]

20 hours ago, PuiPuiHarry said:

 

What did Liar Trump Allmighty, the "grab-them-by-the-pussy" president of the USA against the occupation of the Krim and the Ukraine oblasts Denetsk and Luganst, 2014-2022 ? As far as I know: absolutely nothing, as.. was in the advantage of his master Putin.

 

Again in Swahili please?

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, sharot724 said:

The strange man behind the curtain will give you a brain.

 

Did you mean All Bran?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

You only named Ukraine , there are two in this war ,Trump thinks and has said it , because Russia

has lots a lot of people and equipment that Russia in a settlement should keep the land it has stolen.

 

regards Worgeordie

All right then. Russia is winning and Ukraine is losing. Is that acceptable to you?

[Cameroni]

Russians always win these negotiations. They are the world's best chess players. Just think of the Cuban missile crises. Kennedy was celebrated for winning it. In actual fact the Russians won it. The US had to promise to remove missiles from Turkey and not to invade Cuba.

 

Minsk 1 and Minsk 2 were also wildly in favour of Russia.

 

They always win these negotiations.