How stupid is China for retaliating to Trumps tariffs?

[Yagoda]

20 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The Pentagon has begun to take steps to recycle rare earths and push for the mining of them. But that takes time. And the reserves are for defense use.

Source?

 

You think the DD is the only entity that stocked up? BTW are electric car manufacturers, (folks  beloved because of their efforts to save Mother Gaia),  working to eliminate rare earths in their vehicles?

 

Rare earths is a weapon like any other.

[Cameroni]

China is sure to feel pain from Mr. Trump’s tariffs, which have reached at least 145 percent — a staggering figure that imperils the country’s $400 billion in annual exports to the United States, its biggest market.

 

Already, factories near the manufacturing hub of Guangzhou that supply garments to American consumers have closed until there is more clarity on the tariffs. If such closures spread, they could exacerbate China’s unemployment problem, making it even harder for policymakers to revitalize an economy battered by a property crisis and sagging confidence.

 

“Even if you think you have a strong repressive capacity to hurt doubters and a jingoistic story to rally supporters, economic dislocations are still dangerous because you never know how bad they will get and whether they will turn into something worse,” Mr. Torigian said.

That economic reality suggests that Mr. Xi will probably accept an off-ramp from the tariff showdown if Mr. Trump offers one, analysts said.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/11/world/asia/trump-china-tariffs-xi.html

 

Very obviously there will be a deal made between China and the US. It will allow China to save face to some degree, but it will also reshape China-US trade relations in a more equitable way. Everyone wins.  More winning from Mr Trump. Born to be a winner.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, hotsun said:

Its pretty clear now that all trump wanted to do was put high tariffs on china. If china just had done nothing in response to trumps initial tariffs, maybe trump would have kept it low. But them retaliating only gave trump the excuse he needed to put tariffs on china that price them out of the US  market, losing them the american consumer

 

oopsie..maybe chinas not that smart

Maybe the MAGA fans are not that smart as you won't be getting rare earth anymore: 

 

[Hawaiian]

25 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Source?

 

You think the DD is the only entity that stocked up? BTW are electric car manufacturers, (folks  beloved because of their efforts to save Mother Gaia),  working to eliminate rare earths in their vehicles?

 

Rare earths is a weapon like any other.

And how long will that stockpile last?

[Hawaiian]

18 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

China is sure to feel pain from Mr. Trump’s tariffs, which have reached at least 145 percent — a staggering figure that imperils the country’s $400 billion in annual exports to the United States, its biggest market.

 

Already, factories near the manufacturing hub of Guangzhou that supply garments to American consumers have closed until there is more clarity on the tariffs. If such closures spread, they could exacerbate China’s unemployment problem, making it even harder for policymakers to revitalize an economy battered by a property crisis and sagging confidence.

 

“Even if you think you have a strong repressive capacity to hurt doubters and a jingoistic story to rally supporters, economic dislocations are still dangerous because you never know how bad they will get and whether they will turn into something worse,” Mr. Torigian said.

That economic reality suggests that Mr. Xi will probably accept an off-ramp from the tariff showdown if Mr. Trump offers one, analysts said.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/11/world/asia/trump-china-tariffs-xi.html

 

Very obviously there will be a deal made between China and the US. It will allow China to save face to some degree, but it will also reshape China-US trade relations in a more equitable way. Everyone wins.  More winning from Mr Trump. Born to be a winner.

Wishful thinking?

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Got it. An act of war. Which side you on?

 

PS: what are the stockpiles of rare earths in control of the USA? Do you know?

 

Of course you dont. 

 

Do you know? Please tell us where they hide them. 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, hotsun said:

I havent seen you post any “facts”. Just insults

You don't listen to facts anyhow, as you keep ignoring the rare earth problem.

[daveAustin]

But to vet them? There are obvious pointers but even the meekest and seemingly dainty of fragile little souls can instantly turn into a monster and give you a right old savaging. They’re a bit weird like that. 

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

China is sure to feel pain from Mr. Trump’s tariffs, which have reached at least 145 percent — a staggering figure that imperils the country’s $400 billion in annual exports to the United States, its biggest market.

 

Already, factories near the manufacturing hub of Guangzhou that supply garments to American consumers have closed until there is more clarity on the tariffs. If such closures spread, they could exacerbate China’s unemployment problem, making it even harder for policymakers to revitalize an economy battered by a property crisis and sagging confidence.

 

“Even if you think you have a strong repressive capacity to hurt doubters and a jingoistic story to rally supporters, economic dislocations are still dangerous because you never know how bad they will get and whether they will turn into something worse,” Mr. Torigian said.

That economic reality suggests that Mr. Xi will probably accept an off-ramp from the tariff showdown if Mr. Trump offers one, analysts said.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/11/world/asia/trump-china-tariffs-xi.html

 

Very obviously there will be a deal made between China and the US. It will allow China to save face to some degree, but it will also reshape China-US trade relations in a more equitable way. Everyone wins.  More winning from Mr Trump. Born to be a winner.

Very obviously there will be a deal made between China and the US. It will allow the US to save face to some degree, but will do little to reshape China-US trade relations in a more equitable way. Everyone wins.  More winning from Mr Xi. Born to be a winner.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

This post does seem trollish like Mr Hotsun knows why. Some one treats them terribly and unfairly  .. why didn't they cop it like a good little subservient nation - way to turn China from major pariah to minor hero. 

[hotsun]

4 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

This post does seem trollish like Mr Hotsun knows why. Some one treats them terribly and unfairly  .. why didn't they cop it like a good little subservient nation - way to turn China from major pariah to minor hero. 

Not sure what about my thoughts seem trollish to you. Seems to me the american consumer is more valuable than the chinese consumer. Wouldnt China want a lower tax on their exports? Seems to me their actions were that of shooting themselves in the foot

[Dan O]

2 minutes ago, hotsun said:

Not sure what about my thoughts seem trollish to you. Seems to me the american consumer is more valuable than the chinese consumer. Wouldnt China want a lower tax on their exports? Seems to me their actions were that of shooting themselves in the foot

What tax on China's exports are you referring to? I believe China subsidizes many industries for mfr and export not tax them. 

[Gweiloman]

44 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You are not well informed. The reprieve for laptops, smartphones etc was just fake news. They will be slapped with more tariffs.

I’m not saying you are wrong as I heard that from the commerce secretary, Lutnick  whom I consider a bulls*** artist.

 

However, can you offer your opinion as to why the tariffs on these particular goods would be temporarily suspended rather than just kept in place until such time as the new sectoral tariffs are decided? And why would it take 1-2 months to decide on these new tariffs?

[Cameroni]

6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I’m not saying you are wrong as I heard that from the commerce secretary, Lutnick  whom I consider a bulls*** artist.

 

However, can you offer your opinion as to why the tariffs on these particular goods would be temporarily suspended rather than just kept in place until such time as the new sectoral tariffs are decided? And why would it take 1-2 months to decide on these new tariffs?

 

Well, Trump himself posted much the same on social media.

 

Right now all tariffs are paused I think, with the aim being, that this allows nations to approach the US to offer deals. In relation to laptops, smartphones etc, I think it is no secret that Tim Cook and Donald Trump are fairly close and I would be amazed if Tim Cook had not done all he could to convey to Trump that Apple needs some kind of grace period to adjust. Probably other CEOs did the same. From Apple's perspective I guess any reprieve would be preferable and a win of sorts, no matter how short.

 

I suspect Trump is also sensitive to consumer opinion to some degree, even if it does not look like it, and he knows that massive increases in smartphone and laptop prices could hurt his main supporter base, young white males. The 1 to 2 month time period is probably just to give Apple and co some kind of grace period.

 

From the Chinese perspective, since they KNOW this will come down to negotiating a trade deal with China, it actually makes sense to raise the tariffs and take short term pain for long term gain, because in the negotiations a larger tariff on US goods will be more of a bargaining chip for China. So fairly logical decision by the Chinese.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Source?

 

You think the DD is the only entity that stocked up? BTW are electric car manufacturers, (folks  beloved because of their efforts to save Mother Gaia),  working to eliminate rare earths in their vehicles?

 

Rare earths is a weapon like any other.

Again you avoid facts. Where are the rare earth stockpiles located you claim the US has? Let me make it easy for you? We don't have any appreciable amounts in a "stockpile". We're working toward it but not yet available. There are rare earth metals in some coal dust deposits but not significant process plants exist to extract them yet. 

 

[Dan O]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well, Trump himself posted much the same on social media.

 

Right now all tariffs are paused I think, with the aim being, that this allows nations to approach the US to offer deals. In relation to laptops, smartphones etc, I think it is no secret that Tim Cook and Donald Trump are fairly close and I would be amazed if Tim Cook had not done all he could to convey to Trump that Apple needs some kind of grace period to adjust. Probably other CEOs did the same. From Apple's perspective I guess any reprieve would be preferable and a win of sorts, no matter how short.

 

I suspect Trump is also sensitive to consumer opinion to some degree, even if it does not look like it, and he knows that massive increases in smartphone and laptop prices could hurt his main supporter base, young white males. The 1 to 2 month time period is probably just to give Apple and co some kind of grace period.

 

From the Chinese perspective, since they KNOW this will come down to negotiating a trade deal with China, it actually makes sense to raise the tariffs and take short term pain for long term gain, because in the negotiations a larger tariff on US goods will be more of a bargaining chip for China. So fairly logical decision by the Chinese.

All tariffs have not been paused. China with the exception of the few exempted items is still in effect. 

[Cameroni]

43 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 but will do little to reshape China-US trade relations in a more equitable way. Everyone wins.  More winning from Mr Xi. Born to be a winner.

 

I don't think so, because Mr Trump has the biggest lever. It is the US market that is the main market for Chinese exports. It is the Chinese that are desperate to be in the US market to sell their export surplus. So how could Xi win this? He can't. Particularly since his economy is rocked by real estate scandals and unemployment and already on the ropes. That's why commentators are saying that  Xi will take a deal if he gets one. 

 

Who has the longer lever here? Trump would not hesitate and walk away and let the Chinese economy suffer crippling tariffs. Xi knows this. The Chinese will take a deal even if they do not get all they want.

[placeholder]

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

I don't think so, because Mr Trump has the biggest lever. It is the US market that is the main market for Chinese exports. It is the Chinese that are desperate to be in the US market to sell their export surplus. So how could Xi win this? He can't. Particularly since his economy is rocked by real estate scandals and unemployment and already on the ropes. That's why commentators are saying that  Xi will take a deal if he gets one. 

 

Who has the longer lever here? Trump would not hesitate and walk away and let the Chinese economy suffer crippling tariffs. Xi knows this. The Chinese will take a deal even if they do not get all they want.

 The US is the main market for Chinese goods. I guess that depends on how you define "main". Does main = 15%? 15 percent of china's exports go to the USA. That's 3% of its GDP. even if that trade were to entirely disappear, it wouldn't spell doom for China. And Xi is not going to have to face midterms.

[Cameroni]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 The US is the main market for Chinese goods. I guess that depends on how you define "main". Does main = 15%? 15 percent of china's exports go to the USA. That's 3% of its GDP. even if that trade were to entirely disappear, it wouldn't spell doom for China. And Xi is not going to have to face midterms.

 

Well, it would be 400 billion USD less. Do you think with an economy in trouble suffering from unemployment and real estate scandals this is insignificant to the Chinese?

 

Even without elections Xi knows that he can not risk widespread unemployment and discontent. Chinese are very sensitive to this.

[Gweiloman]

6 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well, Trump himself posted much the same on social media.

 

Right now all tariffs are paused I think, with the aim being, that this allows nations to approach the US to offer deals. In relation to laptops, smartphones etc, I think it is no secret that Tim Cook and Donald Trump are fairly close and I would be amazed if Tim Cook had not done all he could to convey to Trump that Apple needs some kind of grace period to adjust. Probably other CEOs did the same. From Apple's perspective I guess any reprieve would be preferable and a win of sorts, no matter how short.

 

I suspect Trump is also sensitive to consumer opinion to some degree, even if it does not look like it, and he knows that massive increases in smartphone and laptop prices could hurt his main supporter base, young white males. The 1 to 2 month time period is probably just to give Apple and co some kind of grace period.

 

From the Chinese perspective, since they KNOW this will come down to negotiating a trade deal with China, it actually makes sense to raise the tariffs and take short term pain for long term gain, because in the negotiations a larger tariff on US goods will be more of a bargaining chip for China. So fairly logical decision by the Chinese.

Only the reciprocal tariffs have been paused, for 90 days, for all countries except China. The universal 10% tariffs are still in place as are the 25% tariffs on steel, aluminium, cars etc. Tariffs for smartphones, laptops etc from China has also been paused.

 

Whatever you think has transpired between Trump and Apple, I think it is clear to most observers that Trump is walking back a lot of his actions as he realises that very few countries and especially China are not going to be bullied or bluffed by him. Keeping the tariffs in place will do significant and possibly irreversible damage to the US. I doubt very much whether we will hear about any of these sector tariffs on smartphones and electronic equipment anymore. Just another bluff.

 

From China’s perspective, placing tariffs on US products hardly causes any pain as,pretty much all those imports can be obtained from other countries.Trump is really playing kindergarten checkers and not very well at that.

[Chris Daley]

Smash the system then rebuild it.  One step closer to a global digital currency.

 

The ruling elite are all one family.  Shaking hands and smiling in one photo and raging war in another.

[Cameroni]

6 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Only the reciprocal tariffs have been paused, for 90 days, for all countries except China. The universal 10% tariffs are still in place as are the 25% tariffs on steel, aluminium, cars etc. Tariffs for smartphones, laptops etc from China has also been paused.

 

Whatever you think has transpired between Trump and Apple, I think it is clear to most observers that Trump is walking back a lot of his actions as he realises that very few countries and especially China are not going to be bullied or bluffed by him. Keeping the tariffs in place will do significant and possibly irreversible damage to the US. I doubt very much whether we will hear about any of these sector tariffs on smartphones and electronic equipment anymore. Just another bluff.

 

From China’s perspective, placing tariffs on US products hardly causes any pain as,pretty much all those imports can be obtained from other countries.Trump is really playing kindergarten checkers and not very well at that.

 

The thing is, I don't think Trump is "bluffing". He would have no problems to leave giant tariffs on China or anyone else. None at all. However, these countries that depend on exports, unlike the US, such tariffs are major issues for them. Japan has already set up a taskforce to negotiate, Vietnam is offering to stop Chinese passhrough exports.

 

Yes, this is trade piracy, much like British colonialism back in the day, but without the need for invasions, it is still piracy nonetheless. However, most nations have no other choice but to submit, if they don't the losses will be substantial.

 

Maybe smartphones, laptops will be given very minor tariffs, but this would be for domestic US purposes.

 

Indeed, the Chinese can source imports from other countries and will do so of course, however, they cannot substitute a 400 Billion USD market for their export surplus so easily.

[Gweiloman]

11 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I don't think so, because Mr Trump has the biggest lever. It is the US market that is the main market for Chinese exports. It is the Chinese that are desperate to be in the US market to sell their export surplus. So how could Xi win this? He can't. Particularly since his economy is rocked by real estate scandals and unemployment and already on the ropes. That's why commentators are saying that  Xi will take a deal if he gets one. 

 

Who has the longer lever here? Trump would not hesitate and walk away and let the Chinese economy suffer crippling tariffs. Xi knows this. The Chinese will take a deal even if they do not get all they want.

I beg to differ. Trump has no lever. All the expert commentary is that America will be on the losing end. The only commentators that I know of who thinks differently are Bessent, Lutnick, Ron Vara and that idiot Watters.

 

Trump walking away from trade with China will spell his immediate doom and most likely another impeachment. I hope it doesn’t happen as Trump beiand staying on as President is the biggest gift China can ever have.

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Alternative perspectives are useless if they have no foundation in reality.

 

Let he who is without bias....

Throw the first stone/punch/hissyfit...

 

[Purdey]

2 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Got it. An act of war. Which side you on?

 

PS: what are the stockpiles of rare earths in control of the USA? Do you know?

 

Of course you dont. 

 

The US has 11.6% of the world's rare earth production. China has 70%.

It's going to make US manufacturing and technology difficult.

[Gweiloman]

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

The thing is, I don't think Trump is "bluffing". He would have no problems to leave giant tariffs on China or anyone else. None at all. However, these countries that depend on exports, unlike the US, such tariffs are major issues for them. Japan has already set up a taskforce to negotiate, Vietnam is offering to stop Chinese passhrough exports.

 

Yes, this is trade piracy, much like British colonialism back in the day, but without the need for invasions, it is still piracy nonetheless. However, most nations have no other choice but to submit, if they don't the losses will be substantial.

 

Maybe smartphones, laptops will be given very minor tariffs, but this would be for domestic US purposes.

 

Indeed, the Chinese can source imports from US countries and will do so of course, however, they cannot substitute a 400 Billion USD market for their export surplus so easily.

I haven’t heard any independent news on what you said Vietnam has offered so I will refrain from contradicting you on that. I have no doubt that Japan and other nations have or will be setting up taskforces to negotiate, this is only natural. Some nations will also submit, purely out of economic necessity.

 

 I agree also that China cannot easily substitute a 400 billion USD market but to think that they will submit to US’s demands is naive. US has opened the door for quicker de-dollarisation and multipolarity and loss of hegemony and China will most assuredly be thinking very hard on how to exploit this wonderful opportunity. The loss of one eye might be worth it if it causes your opponent to lose both eyes.

[Yagoda]

14 minutes ago, Purdey said:

The US has 11.6% of the world's rare earth production. China has 70%.

It's going to make US manufacturing and technology difficult.

Where is the other 19%. Greenland?

[Yagoda]

35 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I think it is clear to most observers that Trump

Not, its only clear to those  gripped by Trump hate madness. 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Trump and stupid the perfect storm-y 🤔

 

 

 

No, Donald Trump Does Not Know What The Hell He Is Doing

https://au.news.yahoo.com/no-donald-trump-does-not-120010807.html

 

 

 

 

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

trump cancelled the tariffs on PRC  electronic goods; what does that tell you?

nope, they are/will be back on