1 minute ago, Gottfrid said:

It all has to do with who is the better fighter.

 

Well, that's precisely not the case. The best Kung Fu masters in China are currently being destroyed in under 2 minutes by a a below average MMA fighter.

 

You could be the best Jeet Kune Do, Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Aikido, Krav Maga or Sumo fighter in the world, a middle of the road MMA fighter would defeat you.

 

In fact this happened to all time Sumo great Akebono, who some claimed was the best there ever was. He was easily defeated by an MMA fighter.

It's about technique and knowledge thereof. Not fighting prowess or size.

 

Witness the great Akebono, whom some consider the best Sumo fighter of all time, and giant of a man, being submitted by an MMA fighter a fraction of the size of Akebono.

 

 

On 5/12/2025 at 11:29 AM, ThreeCardMonte said:

Great scene.  Love how this actor portrays Bruce Lee

 

This scene is meant to humiliate the image and legend of Bruce Lee.

 

Here he is being beaten by a non martial artist and looks silly.

 

Not sure why Hollywood and/or Tarantino wanted to do that exactly. 

Tarantino going into contortions trying to explain that it wasn't meant to humiliate Bruce Lee, but Bruce Lee's daughter found it highly disrespectful.

 

So why are they belittling a legend is the question?

 

Oh, Tarantino explains it. He claims Bruce Lee was highly disrespectful towards American stuntmen when he was making movies ... so it's fantasy revenge here where a stuntman kicks his butt. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

So why are they belittling a legend is the question?

 

It was most likely because he believed Bruce Lee's legend was built on fraud. He wanted to call out Bruce Lee for being the fraud that he actually was. 

 

To be sure any trained boxer at the time Sugar Ray Robinson, Cassius Clay, Sugar Ray Leonard, any of them would have annihilated Bruce Lee.

 

At first I also thought Tarantino was being disrespectful, but actually he was just calling out the emperor with no clothes, it was perfectly legitimate. Muahammad Ali WOULD have crushed Bruce Lee.

11 hours ago, Cameroni said:

It was most likely because he believed Bruce Lee's legend was built on fraud. He wanted to call out Bruce Lee for being the fraud that he actually was. 

 

It could be that Hollywood is (subconciously) planting the message / revealing that Bruce Lee wasn't a real martial artist. Without stating it explicitly.  

 

Its possible that your thesis here is accurate. I don't know much about martial arts. 

 

16 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

It could be that Hollywood is (subconciously) planting the message / revealing that Bruce Lee wasn't a real martial artist. Without stating it explicitly.  

 

Its possible that your thesis here is accurate. I don't know much about martial arts. 

 

 

Well, Bruce Lee certainly wasn't the killer that he made himself out to be in his movies. He was an actor, a "pretend" fighter. Wushu in fact is much like this, a lot of flourishes of flashy visuals but close to zero effectiveness in fightinng in real life.

 

Now was Bruce Lee someone who trained really hard, yes he was. In fact he injured his back very badly training with weights. Whether that was to maintain his chiselled physique for the movies and the ladies (this was a guy who was vain enough to get circumised as an adult) or whether it was for his martial art, he certainly was training very hard. To the point that he was actually a physical wreck later in life and needed medication just to function.

 

His martial art however Chinese Kung Fu is one of the least efffective martial arts there is. To his credit he seemed to sense this was the case and tried to abandon traditional bs Kung Fu and tried to incorporate Boxing and other non Kung Fu styles into Jeet Kune Do, but this mish mash of styles is still largely based on Chinese Kung Fu and basically ineffective. In Tao of Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee writes about Muay Thai techniques and claims low kicks are ineffectual, he clearly had very limited experience of real fights, as this statement is just plain wrong.

 

Was Bruce Lee a "real" martial artist?  He was a real master in Chinese Kung Fu, he did train hard, he was fast, but he certainly would not last 2 minutes in an MMA fight today, or against any boxer at his time. He has been massively overhyped and overestimated.

My strategy for any scuffles is to scream and bang my head against the wall like that guy from jersey shore. That should diffuse the situation 

2 minutes ago, hotsun said:

My strategy for any scuffles is to scream and bang my head against the wall like that guy from jersey shore. That should diffuse the situation 

 

I was once in a train very late at night in the UK. A group of hoodlums came romaing down the aisle accosting the women and passengers. When they came to me the first thing he said was "How did you get those scars?". I have 3 scars around my eyes from some childhood mishaps.

 

I said "Sometimes I get crazy and fights end up badly". They swiftly moved on and left me in peace. Lol.

 

6 hours ago, Cameroni said:

At first I also thought Tarantino was being disrespectful, but actually he was just calling out the emperor with no clothes, it was perfectly legitimate. Muahammad Ali WOULD have crushed Bruce Lee.

Trying to be the sober one, and also realistic. 

 

Bruce lee was at his prime 70kg only, and if he had to fight either sugar ray or Muhammad Ali, he could have done damage to them in a no rule match and most likely won.. Boxing rules, he would have lost. 

 

Bruce lee was not a froud, but in a mma fight with mma rules he would loose, same as any boxing champ will beat any of todays mma champs in same weitht class. 

8 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think I do, he's 66 his "hitting power" must be akin to a 15 year old girl now.

 

Mike Tyson too was a pro boxer before. Perhaps the best that ever was. Yet look how pitifully he got his a$$ kicked by a nobody like Paul Logan. And Tyson's only 58, Carruthers who was a nobody in boxing is 66!

 

I trained full contact Karate since 1990. Wayne Otto was my teacher. He has 9 world championships and an OBE and a 5th Dan.  Apart from Uechi-Ryu Karate I also hold belts in Bujinkai Karate. I would not feel comfortable taking on Carruthers as I'd probably injure him since he's 66 years old.

Haha. I'm going to see him soon to train non-martial arts form attacker aka street fighter opponent attack stuff 1-2-1 over 6 hourly blocks on the streets outside his school.

 

I'll show him this.

 

You really cannot fathom the power he has at this point.

 

You're just some anonymous S-talker stirring it up.

This thread reminds me of this movie clip.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

ruce lee was at his prime 70kg only, and if he had to fight either sugar ray or Muhammad Ali, he could have done damage to them in a no rule match and most likely won.

 

No.

 

Bruce Lee himself acknowledged that Ali would beat him in a fight, citing the size and reach differences. 

 

In a hypothetical fight, Muhammad Ali would likely win against Bruce Lee. Ali's size, weight, and professional boxing experience would be significant advantages. Lee, while a skilled martial artist and physically fit, had limited experience against professional fighters, and his size and reach disadvantage would make it difficult to land effective strikes on Ali. 

 

Ali was a heavyweight champion, significantly larger and heavier than Lee. This would give Ali a significant advantage in terms of reach, power, and overall physicality. 

 

Ali was a highly experienced professional boxer, having fought and won against some of the greatest fighters in history. Lee, while a skilled martial artist, had limited experience in high-level competition and did not engage in professional fights. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

I'm going to see him soon to train non-martial arts form attacker aka street fighter opponent attack stuff 1-2-1 over 6 hourly blocks on the streets outside his school.

 

Don't forget to hold his walking cane, don't let him fall down! He's quite old.

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No.

 

Bruce Lee himself acknowledged that Ali would beat him in a fight, citing the size and reach differences. 

 

In a hypothetical fight, Muhammad Ali would likely win against Bruce Lee. Ali's size, weight, and professional boxing experience would be significant advantages. Lee, while a skilled martial artist and physically fit, had limited experience against professional fighters, and his size and reach disadvantage would make it difficult to land effective strikes on Ali. 

 

Ali was a heavyweight champion, significantly larger and heavier than Lee. This would give Ali a significant advantage in terms of reach, power, and overall physicality. 

 

Ali was a highly experienced professional boxer, having fought and won against some of the greatest fighters in history. Lee, while a skilled martial artist, had limited experience in high-level competition and did not engage in professional fights. 

 

 

I totally agree on Ali, and also mentioned before in this tread the advantage of weight and reach among highly professionals.

 

Sugar ray weigh in was the same as Bruce Lee prime, and Im would not predict the outcome if there was no rules. Boxing rules, yes no doubt. 

 

Rules by rules, boxing beats any other martial art in the boxing ring, but champions in mma, will beat any boxer who enter the octagon. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I totally agree on Ali, and also mentioned before in this tread the advantage of weight and reach among highly professionals.

 

Sugar ray weigh in was the same as Bruce Lee prime, and Im would not predict the outcome if there was no rules. Boxing rules, yes no doubt. 

 

Rules by rules, boxing beats any other martial art in the boxing ring, but champions in mma, will beat any boxer who enter the octagon. 

 

 

 

I hope you mean Sugar Ray Robinson, who was the best boxer of all time. There is no way that Bruce Lee could develop the same force of punching power as Sugar Ray Robinson or most other top level boxers. Bruce Lee just didn't have the mass, being a small and light person.

 

There are many MMA fighters who did well just using striking power, punching power. Dos Santos comes to mind. But boxers have far greater punching power, witness for instance the supposed heaviest hitter Francis Ngannou. It was close, but he was outpunched by the real boxers.

 

Now Ngannou is not a great grappler, but could he have taken Tyson using grappling and kicking? It's an interesting question, but boxers have too much to lose to go into MMA that way.

12 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I hope you mean Sugar Ray Robinson, who was the best boxer of all time. There is no way that Bruce Lee could develop the same force of punching power as Sugar Ray Robinson or most other top level boxers. Bruce Lee just didn't have the mass, being a small and light person.

 

There are many MMA fighters who did well just using striking power, punching power. Dos Santos comes to mind. But boxers have far greater punching power, witness for instance the supposed heaviest hitter Francis Ngannou. It was close, but he was outpunched by the real boxers.

 

Now Ngannou is not a great grappler, but could he have taken Tyson using grappling and kicking? It's an interesting question, but boxers have too much to lose to go into MMA that way.

I was at Leonard who had same weigh in as Bruce at his prime higher weight. 

 

As said before, you cant measure anyone across the diciplines with different weight classes. 

14 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Now Ngannou is not a great grappler, but could he have taken Tyson using grappling and kicking? It's an interesting question, but boxers have too much to lose to go into MMA that way.

Do you compare airgun to a sniper rifle? 

 

Asking for a friend

46 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Do you compare airgun to a sniper rifle? 

 

Asking for a friend

 

In the end if two men meet outside any ring there are no rules. Everything would count.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Don't forget to hold his walking cane, don't let him fall down! He's quite old.

Funny that Jesse Glover Bruce Lee's first student who came to the school many times who was even older could hit like a train piston..it's condition, not age...

 

He does not need to run a marathon like Tyson doing a showboat for social media, it's about finishing the fight in the fastest time and that he can do.

 

Think you'd know that if you do in fact practice at all.

Just another anoymous S-talker behind a screen. Show us your physique then..don't have to show your face..let's see your conditon right now...haha.

 

Big talk, no walk.

Would you take on Bruce Lee?

On 5/12/2025 at 7:41 PM, Cameroni said:

Now that we have empirical evidence with MMA, it has been found that certain "martial arts" are in fact useless a real fight. This list of useless martial arts includes Chinese Kung Fu, Israeli Krav Maga, Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do and also Korean Taekwondo.

 

The martial arts that actually prove useful in a real fight are Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu.

 

https://fightingadvice.com/useless-martial-arts/

But he would just kick him in the groin. That's a move you don't see much in Muay Thai.

3 minutes ago, Magictoad said:

Would you take on Bruce Lee?

Who are you asking the qurstion to ? From all accounts Lee could hit like a train.

 

Pure physics....mass x acceleration with the correct line-up plus a whiplash going through the person.

1 minute ago, Magictoad said:

But he would just kick him in the groin. That's a move you don't see much in Muay Thai.

Eyes and groin are primary targets in no rules fighting..correct.

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

In the end if two men meet outside any ring there are no rules. Everything would count.  

 

 

And you hear old true warriors who have been in real combats saying «It’s all about finishing your enemy standing, and for any price do not take the fight down to the ground» which manny mma prefer to do. 
 

Anyway, those who have the psychic, strenght and experience will manage to win any battle, still there is a few things that can happen and change the outcome. Distractions and unexpected moves, as well surface of the ground you fighting.
 

I had one client once when we where at slippery grass, and one who should had been an easy grab, become quite dangerous and hard to get control of. 
 

I had clients with axes, knives, and also 30 kg + heavier sometimes I had to deal with. We also often had to step in and help police as security because they where paired with women. As security we where at our own, and needed to read and clear situations before police arrived.

On 5/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Cameroni said:

I am just concerned that those who practice Krav Maga, Kung Fu or Taekwondo may believe that their "art" protects them in a real street fight.

 

If they confide in the things they learn in Krav Maga, Kung fu or Taekwondo class, they could actually unalive themselves and end up very very dead.

 

Please do not think that Krav Maga, Kung Fu and such protect you in a real fight. They won't! They are only tested against compliant and passive practitioners of the same "art"!, not against an uncooperative and aggressive opponent. There is no real sparring in these "arts". 

 

So do not rely on them.

Some of us do not need to rely on them....

 

Because some of us NEVER get in a fight - we use our brains rather than brawn

 

I never had to 'fight' aggressive drunken Russians when I was a tourist police officer, because I used my brain to calm the situation 🙂

Just now, simon43 said:

Some of us do not need to rely on them....

 

Because some of us NEVER get in a fight - we use our brains rather than brawn

 

I never had to 'fight' aggressive drunken Russians when I was a tourist police officer, because I used my brain to calm the situation 🙂

as said before, you got people who clear the streets for you, and maintain the status Q. That’s why you can choose to use your brain, and steer clear of drunk Russians, because they know it is consequences doing harm to others. 
 

 

 

9 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well, Bruce Lee certainly wasn't the killer that he made himself out to be in his movies. He was an actor, a "pretend" fighter. Wushu in fact is much like this, a lot of flourishes of flashy visuals but close to zero effectiveness in fightinng in real life.

 

Now was Bruce Lee someone who trained really hard, yes he was. In fact he injured his back very badly training with weights. Whether that was to maintain his chiselled physique for the movies and the ladies (this was a guy who was vain enough to get circumised as an adult) or whether it was for his martial art, he certainly was training very hard. To the point that he was actually a physical wreck later in life and needed medication just to function.

 

His martial art however Chinese Kung Fu is one of the least efffective martial arts there is. To his credit he seemed to sense this was the case and tried to abandon traditional bs Kung Fu and tried to incorporate Boxing and other non Kung Fu styles into Jeet Kune Do, but this mish mash of styles is still largely based on Chinese Kung Fu and basically ineffective. In Tao of Jeet Kune Do Bruce Lee writes about Muay Thai techniques and claims low kicks are ineffectual, he clearly had very limited experience of real fights, as this statement is just plain wrong.

 

Was Bruce Lee a "real" martial artist?  He was a real master in Chinese Kung Fu, he did train hard, he was fast, but he certainly would not last 2 minutes in an MMA fight today, or against any boxer at his time. He has been massively overhyped and overestimated.

Actually most of the stuff in his movies was not actual end-point JKD as would be practiced in real life..you talk a lot, but really don't know much about your take-down subject at all.

 

JKD is simple and direct..no backflips or roundhouses...stuff for movies was more flash looking for audience appeal. There are also 2 lines of JKD....JKD concept per Dan Inosanto (blending many martial arts) and what was called JKD nucleus for a while which were the core methods Bruce Lee used and taught till he died...I trained both schools and I'm referring to JKD Nucleus.

 

Anyway, done on this...seen these S-talk posts all over the web for 25 years.

 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Some of us do not need to rely on them....

 

Because some of us NEVER get in a fight - we use our brains rather than brawn

 

I never had to 'fight' aggressive drunken Russians when I was a tourist police officer, because I used my brain to calm the situation 🙂

Sometimes you don't have a choice...i had a street fight UK last year with 2 guys loaded on drugs and booze daytime..

Finally, news one can use.