4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Blame it on the Constitution that does not allow discrimination based on gender.

But then Trump and his attorneys tell the courts F*** the Constitution.

you better go check the constitution, it says no such thing!!  

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, bg53 said:

 

The medical issues have been discussed elsewhere. When they amended the rules, FINA took cognizance of expert medical opinion. 

 

It is a little disingenuous to claim "who knows" when you say this

My opinion is not relevant because I do not have the knowledge to support it. What I do know is that those pushing the anti-trans bigotry do not have all of the facts either.

3 hours ago, parallelman said:

I think the Democrats had to make the definition of male and female during Rep Chuck Schumer's insistence of a full reading of the latest Bill. Can be seen on Sky News.

wait..wait..it's not female anymore..it's birthing person

1 minute ago, cjinchiangrai said:

those pushing the anti-trans bigotry

 

Who's bigoted? FINA? 

2 minutes ago, bg53 said:

 

Who's bigoted? FINA? 

MAGA and their band of illiterate goons.

1 minute ago, cjinchiangrai said:

MAGA and their band of illiterate goons.

 

I sympathize. I think both far left and far right (just reductive labels I know) tend to go overboard.

5 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

My opinion is not relevant because I do not have the knowledge to support it. What I do know is that those pushing the anti-trans bigotry do not have all of the facts either.

My opinion is relevant because I am not a moron, and I know that men and women are not the same.

 

What I do know is that those pushing the anti-woman bigotry are creeps

4 hours ago, Peabody said:

So, should exceptionally strong, muscled women be prohibited from competing?

There is no advantage for them in swimming.

31 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

There is no advantage for them in swimming.

But if they had the same secondary sexual characteristics as the transgender athlete, would it be fair to the other women?

Ridiculous the whole trans athlete thing....took an orange madman to restore some sanity to the situation.

Thank Buddha this madness is coming to an end. Male and Female are categories in a biological classification system of organisms that reproduce sexually. Men and women are separated in sport for biological reasons.

 

If a man wants to disable himself by taking hormones then create a category in the Special Olympics, or they can compete in the mens' category.

 

Intersex people, the vast majority of whom are male and female, should compete in the category dictated by their sex chromosomes. There is only one type of intersex condition (Swyer's Syndrome) where someone has a Y chromosome but does not go through male puberty. Sorry but we should not change the world for 0.0013% of the population. 🤔

7 hours ago, Peabody said:

But if they had the same secondary sexual characteristics as the transgender athlete, would it be fair to the other women?

Swimming at the higher levels is 90% technique. The other 10% is a mix of training, will to win and state of mind.

I can't believe we're still having this argument.

Men in men's sports according to birth certificate.

Women in women's sports according to birth certificate.

Trans in trans sports regardless of birth certificate, their choice.

Done and dusted.

4 hours ago, GanDoonToonPet said:

Thank Buddha this madness is coming to an end. Male and Female are categories in a biological classification system of organisms that reproduce sexually. Men and women are separated in sport for biological reasons.

 

If a man wants to disable himself by taking hormones then create a category in the Special Olympics, or they can compete in the mens' category.

 

Intersex people, the vast majority of whom are male and female, should compete in the category dictated by their sex chromosomes. There is only one type of intersex condition (Swyer's Syndrome) where someone has a Y chromosome but does not go through male puberty. Sorry but we should not change the world for 0.0013% of the population. 🤔

I don't think that figure of 0.0013% is accurate. There are only about 100 in the world with that condition.

Good 👍 

20 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I have two series of questions about this article, as well as the others regarding transgender athletes.

 

1. How are they going to determine the gender of a person? The article says they will use "biological definitions of male and female." What are they, and will all athletes who want to compete in women's sports be required to undergo tests or examinations to determine or verify their gender?

 

2. This article clearly states they will "bar transgender athletes from competing in women's sports." What about men's sports? Can transgender athletes compete in men's sports? And, if so, why don't they change the designations to just "sports" and "women's sports"? 

Blood tests and biological sex:

Chromosomal analysis:

Blood tests can analyze a person's chromosomes (specifically, the X and Y chromosomes) to determine biological sex. 

Presence of Y chromosome:

The presence of a Y chromosome indicates biological male (XY), while the absence of a Y chromosome indicates biological female (XX). 

Non-invasive prenatal testing (NIPT):

NIPT, which involves analyzing a pregnant woman's blood, can also determine fetal sex by detecting the presence or absence of the Y chromosome.  

 

Trans should be able to compete in a All Male sport  Because they are Biological Males

7 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Swimming at the higher levels is 90% technique. The other 10% is a mix of training, will to win and state of mind.

So, nothing to do with male/female?

21 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Basically, well-meaning but simpleminded people believed that they were doing the right thing.  It became trendy to do things to prevent "trans women" from feeling bad.  It was tolerated for quite a while, then gradually, people realised how much harm it was doing to women and children, and things slowly started to creep back to sanity.

 

Nope. This isn’t an insanity thing. I’m all for trans rights. Their lives are already difficult enough as it is without the discrimination thing. I’ll never understand why it can’t be like in Thailand everywhere in the world?! And it’s not doing any harm to women or children either, but male to female transitioners obviously can’t compete against biological women because of their unfair advantage. 

20 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Very true. A big win for BIOLOGICAL women, the ONLY kind of women.

Well, you sound extremely ignorant! 

1 hour ago, Peabody said:

So, nothing to do with male/female?

The guys are faster for a number of reasons in swimming. They are generally bigger; with longer limbs and torso. Hands and feet are bigger. They have the ability to produce more energy. Their aerobic capacity is greater.

 

The best of the females are roughly 10% behind the better males in all events, any distance.

4 hours ago, digger70 said:

Blood tests and biological sex:

Chromosomal analysis:

Blood tests can analyze a person's chromosomes (specifically, the X and Y chromosomes) to determine biological sex. 

Presence of Y chromosome:

The presence of a Y chromosome indicates biological male (XY), while the absence of a Y chromosome indicates biological female (XX). 

Non-invasive prenatal testing (NIPT):

NIPT, which involves analyzing a pregnant woman's blood, can also determine fetal sex by detecting the presence or absence of the Y chromosome.  

 

Trans should be able to compete in a All Male sport  Because they are Biological Males

My question was concerning Penn State specifically, and all other college (and professional?) sports. What tests will they use? And will they use it on all participants, or only those they suspect are not biological women?

And, to respond to a couple of your points above:

- What about XXY people?
- And "trans people" come to two classifications: transwomen (possibly biologically males) and transmen (possibly biological women). You, and most others, only refer to transwomen.

13 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Ridiculous the whole trans athlete thing....took an orange madman to restore some sanity to the situation.

Money is King.

On 7/3/2025 at 3:17 PM, WDSmart said:

I have two series of questions about this article, as well as the others regarding transgender athletes.

 

1. How are they going to determine the gender of a person? The article says they will use "biological definitions of male and female." What are they, and will all athletes who want to compete in women's sports be required to undergo tests or examinations to determine or verify their gender?

 

2. This article clearly states they will "bar transgender athletes from competing in women's sports." What about men's sports? Can transgender athletes compete in men's sports? And, if so, why don't they change the designations to just "sports" and "women's sports"? 

1. Common sense and practicality will be used? I would think testing would be needed only if another competitor challenged an athlete. If testing becomes necessary can test for Y chromosome right?

2. This is less likely to be an issue. Biologically sexual dimorphism in the species means that statistically men tend to be larger and have more muscle mass so have an advantage in most sports. If there is a sport where women have the advantage again testing for lack of Y chromosome could be used could it not?

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

1. Common sense and practicality will be used? I would think testing would be needed only if another competitor challenged an athlete. If testing becomes necessary can test for Y chromosome right?

2. This is less likely to be an issue. Biologically sexual dimorphism in the species means that statistically men tend to be larger and have more muscle mass so have an advantage in most sports. If there is a sport where women have the advantage again testing for lack of Y chromosome could be used could it not?

 

 

 

1. If common sense and practicality are used, that would be a first! I do like your suggestion that testing only be done if a competitor (or coach?) challenges an athlete. Testing for a Y chromosome would be the likely test. That would mean a lack of one would be a "woman," and the presence of one would be a "man" - except for people with XXY chromosomes. That would either disqualify them from women's sports or necessitate the creation of a special rule for them.
2. Lack of a Y chromosome would certainly qualify someone as a woman, but the presence of a Y chromosome might not (XXY). And would men's sports require a Y chromosome if tested, or would anyone be allowed to compete? 

Thanks...

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

I’ll never understand why it can’t be like in Thailand everywhere in the world?! And it’s not doing any harm to women or children either

 

This is why you cannot understand it.  You have a fundamentally incorrect belief about the topic.

About time as this stupid nonsense has gone on far too long and is an afront to women's sport.

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Well, you sound extremely ignorant! 

 

So, person A believes that the label "woman" should refer only to biological females, while person B believes the label should also apply to males who identify as women, yet the former is "extremely ignorant" and the later is (presumably) enlightened and progressive?

 

Can you explain this bizarre stance at all?

21 hours ago, cjinchiangrai said:

My opinion is not relevant because I do not have the knowledge to support it. What I do know is that those pushing the anti-trans bigotry do not have all of the facts either.

 

This is about biological males no longer being allowed to destroy biological women's sports.

 

The "anti-trans bigotry" thread is over there ----->

3 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

I’ll never understand why it can’t be like in Thailand everywhere in the world?!

 

Does Thailand let biological males that identify as females compete in women's sports?

 

3 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

...but male to female transitioners obviously can’t compete against biological women because of their unfair advantage. 

 

Well, hold my beer.

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

My question was concerning Penn State specifically, and all other college (and professional?) sports. What tests will they use? And will they use it on all participants, or only those they suspect are not biological women?

And, to respond to a couple of your points above:

- What about XXY people?
- And "trans people" come to two classifications: transwomen (possibly biologically males) and transmen (possibly biological women). You, and most others, only refer to transwomen.

 

The "test" will be their gender as defined on their driving licence, passport or, if necessary, their birth certificate.

 

Not at all sure what you are on about regarding these "two classifications" unless you really and truly subscribe to the abstruse notion that one's claimed "sexual identity" is the be all and end all of any decision.

 

The rather dim Scottish nationalist government chose to roll with letting people self identify. That got them a whole load of grief when a male sexual predator, who was prosecuted as a male, suddenly "identified" as a female during the court procedures and was sent to a women's prison. And some people get upset when they are denied using the WRONG toilet, just because they are having a Shania Twain episode?