1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

So far the "suitably qualified people" have been wrong. Core inflation still low and the stock market at record highs. 

In case you have not looked, stock markets are tanking today.

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

 

He obviously has no concept of the critical nature a free press plays in ensuring a democracy remains a democracy.

 

The press in the US is staggeringly weak and they will pay for it.

The press is free to print anything that is true. 

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear to many of us that Trump is utterly desperate to control the narrative regardless of the facts, and regardless of where the economy is. Many economists warned that there will be consequences for his reckless and indecisive tariffs, and now that they're coming home to roost he just can't seem to wrap his mind around the actual reality his chaos has caused, and possible failure of his policies. 

 

Mr. Trump’s war on facts reached new heights on Friday when he angrily fired the Labor Department official in charge of compiling statistics on employment in America because he did not like the latest jobs report showing that the economy isn’t doing as well as he claims it is. Mr. Trump declared that her numbers were “phony.” His proof? It was “my opinion.” And the story he told supposedly proving she was politically biased? It had no basis in fact itself.

 

Both Democrats and Republicans criticized the move, including Mr. Trump’s labor statistics chief in his first term, William W. Beach, who wrote on social media that it was “totally groundless” and “sets a dangerous precedent.”

 

Mr. Trump has never been especially wedded to facts, routinely making up his own numbers, repeating falsehoods and conspiracy theories even after they are debunked and denigrating the very concept of independent fact-checking. But his efforts since reclaiming the White House to make the rest of government adopt his versions of the truth have gone further than in his first term and increasingly remind scholars of the way authoritarian leaders in other countries have sought to control information.

 

“Democracy can’t realistically exist without reliable epistemic infrastructure,” said Michael Patrick Lynch, author of the recently published “On Truth in Politics” and a professor at the University of Connecticut.

“Anti-democratic, authoritarian leaders know this,” he said. “That is why they will seize every opportunity to control sources of information. 

 

His fast-and-loose approach to numbers and facts finally caught up with him last year when he was found liable for fraud in a civil case in which a judge found that he used his annual financial statements to defraud lenders and ordered him to pay what has now exceeded $500 million with interest. Mr. Trump has appealed the ruling.

 

Mr. Trump and his allies assailed the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office for projecting that his tax and spending legislation would add trillions of dollars to the national debt and offered his own numbers instead.

 

“I predict we will do 3, 4, or even 5 times the amount they purposefully ‘allotted’ to us,” he said, referring to growth expected to be stimulated by tax cuts, which he insisted would “cost us no money.” Mr. Trump called the budget office “Democrat inspired and ‘controlled,’” even though it is nonpartisan and Republicans have majorities in both chambers of Congress.

 

“It’s a post-factual world that Trump is looking for, and he’s got these sycophants working for him that don’t challenge him on facts,” said Barbara Comstock, a former Republican congresswoman from Virginia.

But firing the messenger, she said, will not make the economy any better. “The reality is the economy is worse, and he can’t keep saying it’s better,” she said. “Joe Biden learned that; people still experience the experience they have, no matter how much” you tell them otherwise.

 

Partial excerpts from a NY Times article by Peter Baker. 

According to Trump, "Thousands of people have died at the border," between Thailand and Cambodia in a Fox New interview.  3:38 in this Fox New interview:  
 

What I find unconscionable is that the POTUS, the guy with the nuclear launch codes for the US nuclear arsenal, is so misinformed about foreign events. You can't believe the bovine excrement that come out of his mouth. He is constantly spew distorted information.  Not a good look. 

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear to many of us that Trump is utterly desperate to control the narrative regardless of the facts, and regardless of where the economy is. Many economists warned that there will be consequences for his reckless and indecisive tariffs, and now that they're coming home to roost he just can't seem to wrap his mind around the actual reality his chaos has caused, and possible failure of his policies. 

 

Mr. Trump’s war on facts reached new heights on Friday when he angrily fired the Labor Department official in charge of compiling statistics on employment in America because he did not like the latest jobs report showing that the economy isn’t doing as well as he claims it is. Mr. Trump declared that her numbers were “phony.” His proof? It was “my opinion.” And the story he told supposedly proving she was politically biased? It had no basis in fact itself.

 

Both Democrats and Republicans criticized the move, including Mr. Trump’s labor statistics chief in his first term, William W. Beach, who wrote on social media that it was “totally groundless” and “sets a dangerous precedent.”

 

Mr. Trump has never been especially wedded to facts, routinely making up his own numbers, repeating falsehoods and conspiracy theories even after they are debunked and denigrating the very concept of independent fact-checking. But his efforts since reclaiming the White House to make the rest of government adopt his versions of the truth have gone further than in his first term and increasingly remind scholars of the way authoritarian leaders in other countries have sought to control information.

 

“Democracy can’t realistically exist without reliable epistemic infrastructure,” said Michael Patrick Lynch, author of the recently published “On Truth in Politics” and a professor at the University of Connecticut.

“Anti-democratic, authoritarian leaders know this,” he said. “That is why they will seize every opportunity to control sources of information. 

 

His fast-and-loose approach to numbers and facts finally caught up with him last year when he was found liable for fraud in a civil case in which a judge found that he used his annual financial statements to defraud lenders and ordered him to pay what has now exceeded $500 million with interest. Mr. Trump has appealed the ruling.

 

Mr. Trump and his allies assailed the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office for projecting that his tax and spending legislation would add trillions of dollars to the national debt and offered his own numbers instead.

 

“I predict we will do 3, 4, or even 5 times the amount they purposefully ‘allotted’ to us,” he said, referring to growth expected to be stimulated by tax cuts, which he insisted would “cost us no money.” Mr. Trump called the budget office “Democrat inspired and ‘controlled,’” even though it is nonpartisan and Republicans have majorities in both chambers of Congress.

 

“It’s a post-factual world that Trump is looking for, and he’s got these sycophants working for him that don’t challenge him on facts,” said Barbara Comstock, a former Republican congresswoman from Virginia.

But firing the messenger, she said, will not make the economy any better. “The reality is the economy is worse, and he can’t keep saying it’s better,” she said. “Joe Biden learned that; people still experience the experience they have, no matter how much” you tell them otherwise.

 

Partial excerpts from a NY Times article by Peter Baker. 

yeah, about him trying to change history - trying to get the Smithsonian Institute to delete the impeachment tries during his first term plus to help keep him out of harm's way he appointed 3 to the Supreme Court and we see how those three vote on different issues, opposite of what they swore to uphole during their conressional hearings.  The nation and its citizens seemed doomed since he might be around for more than 3+ years to go. MHO anyway as it looks scary to me and to those in the US that I communicate regularly.

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

So far the "suitably qualified people" have been wrong. Core inflation still low and the stock market at record highs. 

 

Inflation is rising already, although modestly, because of all his TACO's and of course you don't need to be qualified to know that.

As of August 7 the tariffs will be in full force, so let's wait and see what the August inflation report brings.

19 minutes ago, Presnock said:

yeah, about him trying to change history - trying to get the Smithsonian Institute to delete the impeachment tries during his first term plus to help keep him out of harm's way he appointed 3 to the Supreme Court and we see how those three vote on different issues, opposite of what they swore to uphole during their conressional hearings.  The nation and its citizens seemed doomed since he might be around for more than 3+ years to go. MHO anyway as it looks scary to me and to those in the US that I communicate regularly.

Then fire people because the Labor Statistics don't look good.  So obviously the US needs fake statistics to make Trump look good.  Dangerous.

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Dont forget that medicine prices are soon to be reduced by 1500% (!).

 

The man with a complete grasp of numbers told us himself, live, on TV!

How embarrasing that the potus of usa does not understand 3rd grade math.

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

So far the "suitably qualified people" have been wrong. Core inflation still low and the stock market at record highs. 

Can you understand the concept of 'cascading failure?' 
Are you aware that it has already begun?
Let me explain. It's like that little snowball at the top of the hill rolling down, gathering more and more snow, gaining in size and speed, until it crashes into the wall at the bottom.
America isn't at the bottom... yet. But watch as it spirals down over the next few months, until people can no longer live their lives comfortably because of little money, no food on the shelves, few household goods available at reasonable prices, and no access to needed health care.

Not today, but it's coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

 

Many people are desperate to earn a living, so they will print just about anything to get clicks, to get views, to sell newspapers, to sell books.

 

One very popular way to make $$$ in this day and age is to print negative news about Trump, because 150 million people (at least) hate him. It's a guaranteed way to get clicks.

 

Because DRAMA is good for business. 

 

If Trump says black, you say white. And off you go for clicks and $$$. Just contradict everything he does. 

 

Meanwhile, no one really understands tariffs or how they affect the economy because no one has a PhD in economics.

 

 

I see that you got a lot of clicks, mostly negative emojis though.

16 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can you understand the concept of 'cascading failure?' 
Are you aware that it has already begun?
Let me explain. It's like that little snowball at the top of the hill rolling down, gathering more and more snow, gaining in size and speed, until it crashes into the wall at the bottom.
America isn't at the bottom... yet. But watch as it spirals down over the next few months, until people can no longer live their lives comfortably because of little money, no food on the shelves, few household goods available at reasonable prices, and no access to needed health care.

Not today, but it's coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

There's a real inconsistency on both the left and right. Yes, there will be some inflation due to President Trump's programs. So people on the right shouldn't deny that. But is that a bad thing? As President Trump's tariffs kick in and illegal immigrants are expelled, wages for low income workers should rise faster than inflation. And isn't that a good thing? It seems that the lefties think otherwise.

“This is the same Bureau of Labor Statistics that overstated the Jobs Growth in March 2024 by approximately 818,000 and, then again, right before the 2024 Presidential Election, in August and September, by 112,000,” the president wrote. “These were Records — No one can be that wrong", Trump said.

 

Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.), who demanded testimony from McEntarfer last year over the Biden-era job stats revisions, praised Trump for removing her from the top BLS post.

 

“I have been raising concerns for the past year about inaccurate job numbers put out by Dr. Erika McEntarfer,” Marshall wrote on X. “Her cooked-up numbers have misled the American people for too long.”

 

https://nypost.com/2025/08/01/us-news/trump-fires-biden-appointed-bureau-of-labor-statistics-commissioner-after-bad-jobs-report-numbers-were-rigged/

 

Since McEntarfer had a history of producing suspect numbers, and her last revision was definitely counter to everyone's expectations, it is hard to escape the suspicion that this Biden appointee was indeed rigging the numbers to make Trump look bad.

 

Good call to fire her.

11 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

no food on the shelves

projecting worst case doom and gloom scenario 

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

projecting worst case doom and gloom scenario 

Unfortunately, no longer just a projection.

It's already being seen in many parts of the U.S.
Food prices are already rising quickly from day to day, as is the cost of household goods and furnishings. Compare this week's new car sticker price with that of two months ago.

MAGAs will not like having this truth slap them in the face when they go shopping this week because there will be no way to spin these rising costs anywhere but to the current administration.

41 minutes ago, annotator said:

There's a real inconsistency on both the left and right. Yes, there will be some inflation due to President Trump's programs. So people on the right shouldn't deny that. But is that a bad thing? As President Trump's tariffs kick in and illegal immigrants are expelled, wages for low income workers should rise faster than inflation. And isn't that a good thing? It seems that the lefties think otherwise.

How’s your lettuce picking skills?or your concrete finish/pouring skills?are you going to get some spoiled ticktock brat to do these jobs?oh boy lmao 🤣 

4 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

Unfortunately, no longer just a projection.

It's already being seen in many parts of the U.S.
Food prices are already rising quickly from day to day, as is the cost of household goods and furnishings. Compare this week's new car sticker price with that of two months ago.

MAGAs will not like having this truth slap them in the face when they go shopping this week because there will be no way to spin these rising costs anywhere but to the current administration.

Kinda makes a person wonder about when Donald has an (episode) why we all have to pay for it by getting taxed (tariffs) cause he’s mad at Brazil…..so my coffee goes up 50% and the price of beef…..has the magga rot set in so bad that these (marks) can’t see it?im thinking not they will come around just hope it’s not to late.

9 hours ago, Cameroni said:

“This is the same Bureau of Labor Statistics that overstated the Jobs Growth in March 2024 by approximately 818,000 and, then again, right before the 2024 Presidential Election, in August and September, by 112,000,” the president wrote. “These were Records — No one can be that wrong", Trump said.

 

Sen. Roger Marshall (R-Kan.), who demanded testimony from McEntarfer last year over the Biden-era job stats revisions, praised Trump for removing her from the top BLS post.

 

“I have been raising concerns for the past year about inaccurate job numbers put out by Dr. Erika McEntarfer,” Marshall wrote on X. “Her cooked-up numbers have misled the American people for too long.”

 

https://nypost.com/2025/08/01/us-news/trump-fires-biden-appointed-bureau-of-labor-statistics-commissioner-after-bad-jobs-report-numbers-were-rigged/

 

Since McEntarfer had a history of producing suspect numbers, and her last revision was definitely counter to everyone's expectations, it is hard to escape the suspicion that this Biden appointee was indeed rigging the numbers to make Trump look bad.

 

Good call to fire her.

 

 

 

 

Fired for doing her job — not for fudging numbers.

 

The BLS’s 2024 revision cut job growth by 818K. Big? Yes. Political? No.

 

Revisions happen every year using better data. It’s called integrity, not sabotage.

 

 “No evidence of manipulation.” — *William Beach*, Trump’s own former BLS chief  
 “Absurd to claim politicization.” — *Erica Groshen*, ex-BLS commissioner

 

McEntarfer is a career economist, not a partisan pawn.

 

Her firing undermines trust in America’s data — and that should worry everyone.

 

 

49 minutes ago, annotator said:

There's a real inconsistency on both the left and right. Yes, there will be some inflation due to President Trump's programs. So people on the right shouldn't deny that. But is that a bad thing? As President Trump's tariffs kick in and illegal immigrants are expelled, wages for low income workers should rise faster than inflation. And isn't that a good thing? It seems that the lefties think otherwise.

I guess you haven't seen all the fruit and vegetables left rotting in the fields because there aren't enough migrant laborers to pick them?
 

Businesses (and Countries) rely on future planning to stay viable.
With Trump's on-again/off-again tariff announcements, businesses (and entire countries) are unable to plan for their futures. Businesses (and countries) that can't make long-range economic plans will most likely fail.

11 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Food prices are already rising quickly from day to day,

 

Still a stretch to go to "food shelves will be empty".

This chart doesn't have current inflation, but Trump's previous term was better than Biden's. Biden's numbers werent that good. 

 

https://www.investopedia.com/us-inflation-rate-by-president-8546447

 

9 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

The USA has a big economy and a system with many checks and balances.

 

The economy is already for decades in the process of failing (debt load). Eroding all checks and balances takes time.

 

But when the system fails, it will be sudden, catastrophic and likely unfixable by political means (a bit like the USSR, only worse, as a more complex system).

 

Will this all catch up with Trump personally? As much as one hopes, not all bad people get their deserved comeuppance, he might simply be too old and frail to get caught out in time.

 

Compounded by the GOP's willingness to ignore their Oath to defend the Constitution. Currently the US checks and balance process has been thoroughly corrupted by Trump and his enablers. and is in fact farcical.

1 minute ago, FolkGuitar said:

I guess you haven't seen all the fruit and vegetables left rotting in the fields because there aren't enough migrant laborers to pick them?
 

Businesses (and Countries) rely on future planning to stay viable.
With Trump's on-again/off-again tariff announcements, businesses (and entire countries) are unable to plan for their futures. Businesses (and countries) that can't make long-range economic plans will most likely fail.

 

Yes, but this only impacts the poor people and the farmers......so the Republicans can relax.......got to stay focussed on those tax breaks for the billionaires.

5 minutes ago, Tug said:

Kinda makes a person wonder about when Donald has an (episode) why we all have to pay for it by getting taxed (tariffs) cause he’s mad at Brazil…..so my coffee goes up 50% and the price of beef…..has the magga rot set in so bad that these (marks) can’t see it?im thinking not they will come around just hope it’s not to late.

 

The trees continued to call the Axe their friend because he said his wooden handle made him one of them.

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can you understand the concept of 'cascading failure?' 
Are you aware that it has already begun?
Let me explain. It's like that little snowball at the top of the hill rolling down, gathering more and more snow, gaining in size and speed, until it crashes into the wall at the bottom.
America isn't at the bottom... yet. But watch as it spirals down over the next few months, until people can no longer live their lives comfortably because of little money, no food on the shelves, few household goods available at reasonable prices, and no access to needed health care.

Not today, but it's coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

According to one poster you are not allowed to make predictions on this forum unless you have a record of making accurate predictions.  So when does one start? 

However, I agree with you.  Things aren't looking good for those without adequate resources.

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Still a stretch to go to "food shelves will be empty".

 

Again... do you not understand the concept of 'Cascading Failure?'

 

8 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

According to one poster you are not allowed to make predictions on this forum unless you have a record of making accurate predictions.  So when does one start? 

However, I agree with you.  Things aren't looking good for those without adequate resources.

I'm a trained psychic (have the diploma and everything!), so I AM allowed to make predictions. I have the skill set.

Prediction: We're so <deleted>.

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

Still a stretch to go to "food shelves will be empty".

This chart doesn't have current inflation, but Trump's previous term was better than Biden's. Biden's numbers werent that good. 

 

https://www.investopedia.com/us-inflation-rate-by-president-8546447

 

This time around things are different.  Trump is completely unhinged and has become very erratic.

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

Can you understand the concept of 'cascading failure?' 
Are you aware that it has already begun?
Let me explain. It's like that little snowball at the top of the hill rolling down, gathering more and more snow, gaining in size and speed, until it crashes into the wall at the bottom.
America isn't at the bottom... yet. But watch as it spirals down over the next few months, until people can no longer live their lives comfortably because of little money, no food on the shelves, few household goods available at reasonable prices, and no access to needed health care.

Not today, but it's coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

The massive inventory accumulation by businesses (in anticipation of the tariffs kicking in) is running out.  Soon those businesses will have to start importing products subject to tariffs and raise prices.  I'd say 6 months for tariff effects to really kick in is about right.  This will lead to less consumption, lower business profits, lower hiring, etc...   If the company eats all or part of the tariff instead of passing it on, then it eats into their profits and will negatively affect their stock price.  I think you get the picture.  About to put in my shorts on the major indices.

11 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Her firing undermines trust in America’s data — and that should worry everyone.

 

 

No, it's quite the opposite. The economy depends on accurate data. It can't afford to have political zealots like McEntarfer falsify the numbers for political reasons. Firing McEntarfer is absolutely the right decision.

 

There have long been serious concerns about her numbers, overstating job figures when Biden was in power, and her last stunt was a bridge too far. The last revision was very obviously designed to embarass Trump and completely counter to all expectations and prior data.

 

It wasn't just Trump, many others had suspected McEntarfer of cooking up the numbers, and the economy can't afford to be misled by false data. Putting a different person in charge will strengthen trust in America's data, which McEntarfer had long eroded.

 

 

4 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

The massive inventory accumulation by businesses (in anticipation of the tariffs kicking in) is running out.  Soon those businesses will have to start importing products subject to tariffs and raise prices.  I'd say 6 months for tariff effects to really kick in is about right.  This will lead to less consumption, lower business profits, lower hiring, etc...   I think you get the picture.  About to put in my shorts on the major indices.

According to Trump tariff revenues will offset the tax cut for the rich.  Not if imports fall along with the corresponding tariff income.  

27 minutes ago, Tug said:

How’s your lettuce picking skills?or your concrete finish/pouring skills?are you going to get some spoiled ticktock brat to do these jobs?oh boy lmao 🤣 

Why are you making it about me? This is about market forces. If wages are too low to attract workers, then wages will have to be raised. What have you got against that? You want to keep people in these lines of work poor?

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

The economy depends on accurate data.

 

Oh dear....that is exactly why the downgrade occurred.....

 

These revisions are part of BLS’s annual benchmarking process, which uses more complete data from unemployment insurance records to correct earlier estimates based on surveys.