8 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Thanks - that is very interesting.  So the insurance is not global insurance from here in Thailand, but from in Europe. Does that mean you have a European address and obtained it while there or visiting?  I did not know that someone in Thailand could get global health insurance (not travel insurance) from a European office - I assume you must have an address in Europe.   Unfortunately, I only have an Aussie address and insurance companies in Australia only provide health insurance within Australia - anything outside Australia has to be travel insurance. The Govt controls pricing and availability, and that is why it is only available within Australia. 

 

I have dual citizenship ... Canadian and that of a European country. i worked for many years as a 'civil servant' (in essence) for a European government organisation (not for an EU country government, rather i worked for a government organisation  in Europe run by European counties).  While i worked there one of the perks was I received was/is Global Health insurance.  I paid 50% (out of my salary) and the government organisation paid 50%. 

 

When I retired , with a pension from that organization, another perk was i could maintain my global health insurance  (no matter where in the world i lived  - albeit USA/Canada coverage was limited) and further, the government organisation would pay 50% or more of my Health insurance costs, where regardless of my age, the amount i paid was capped at a certain amount (currently ~200 euros/month that I pay).  Even better (for me) the European organisation share is that they pay more than ~200 euros/month ... and as i grow older they will continue to have to pay more, but myself not so much more - my amount is already capped ).  The Health insurance covers both me and my younger Thai wife.  When I pass away, she gets my European organisation pension, and IMHO if she is smart, she will keep that subsidized health insurance (she is allowed to).  Its a bargain.

 

However as noted in other posts, when I applied for the LTR visa,  I did not know how to get the letter to prove the Health Insurance to BoI, so I health insured.  Self insuring with cash in an interest bearing bank account was not a big issue to me. Not in the slightest.  i type that noting the VAST amount of my finances are in equities outside of Thailand .

 

Saying what i posted before, but in different terms, BoI have their own definition of 'wealthy' and while some might meet most of BoI's requirements, the financial (?) pain they have to meet all of BoI's requirements, might end up being that such individuals are not sufficiently wealthy by BoIs definition.  Yes. Its unfortunate. As the saying goes, this is Thailand.

 

For those not getting the LTR, fortunately that is not an issue, as the Type-O is a great visa (as long as the type-O visa remains with no health insurance requirement and as long as it remains with no big annual cost increases, over the next decade (where I say the next decade as I am thinking in terms of an equivalent to duration to the 10-year LTR visa)).

9 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes - been through all that.  All Government provided Pensions are not taxable in Thailand. This was confirmed by a TRD Officer in an interview based on the fact that all Govt Pensions that Thais receive are not taxable income, and all tax residents are entitled to the same benefits, allowances, deductions and exemptions'. She further stated that is why TRD has never 'pursued' Expats because they know they mainly receive Government Pensions. But it is true to state that this is only an 'opinion' and there has been no decree one way or the other.   

 

This is not 100% accurate ... I believe the TRD officer you quote was talking generalities.

 

MANY state pensions, from people who are  not receiving government civil servant pensions nor receiving military pensions, but who have a state pension from their non-Thai country government, ARE taxable in Thailand, dependent on the DTA. 

 

For example, German state pensions from the German government  (ie pension for those who were not civil servants/ex-military) are TAXABLE in Thailand.  I will let the Australians who actually dug thru their Thai-Australia DTA comment, but I believe the same could be true for Australia, where state pensions  (ie pension for those who were not civil servants/ex-military) are TAXABLE in Thailand. 

 

All pensions provided by Governments are not excluded Thai taxation.  OK?  All are not.  it is more nuanced than that.

 

Yes, pensions of Civil Servant/Military from countries with DTAs with Thailand are all, to the best of my knowledge, exempt Thal taxation.     But state pensions, from governments of some countries (where these are not civil servant/military) are taxable in a number of cases by Thailand.  Not all. But some.

 

Also - another point noting that TRD official was likely talking in generalities, but not about all circumstances.   Thai citizens, who (say via having dual citizenship) are in MANY cases, are taxed by Thailand on their foreign government civil servant pensions.  That is agreed / signed upon and easily available to confirm just by examining a number of country DTAs with Thailand.

 

And another point re "all governments" ...  Further, for example pensions of EU government civil servants (not EU country governments, but EU government - there is a difference !! ) are taxable by Thailand. Nominally they have no DTA to protect them from Thai taxation on their pension.

 

 

On 9/2/2025 at 10:44 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Thank you very much - that is greatly appreciated and exactly what I wanted to know.  3 years is a long time in politics and Thailand so am looking for more up to date information.

 

Like you - I have found they do not like emails at all (common in Thais) so I got around that by just sending another contact message asking question/s - they always answer within a day or so.

 

The health insurance is a serious no-no for me. I refuse to pay 120K+ PA for a policy that meets LTR requirements (Pacific Cross) and all the others are about the same, unless I cut it down to basically nothing and then it is still 50K a year - complete scam.  I self-insure and have over 1 million baht in bank accounts in Thailand, but they want 3 million and they want it to have been in there for 2 years.  BOI stated I can get around that by having 100K US in bank accounts both in Thailand or globally. The problem with that is that for me that is a large amount of money getting no interest and what little interest is paid is taxed in Australia - unlike in my Superannuation Accounts. 

 

I recently sent a question online pointing out that the money I would pay in insurance over 10 years for LTR, is about the same as buying a Thai Elite Visa - and they do not demand I have health insurance.  I also pointed out that IF I am a wealthy pensioner as per their income and financial rules, then surely I have enough money to pay any medical bills - as I have been doing for over 10 years already.  No answers so far (none expected).

 

I figured the income tax year alignment would be an issue - but that is able to be 'got around' as you say.  Could I ask about non-taxable income - will they accept other forms of income as per their rules and do you know what they will and will not accept.  I have heard they are getting almost zero new business, so they are being very 'relaxed' - but that does not mean Immigration will approve anything not exactly correct. 

 

Could I ask - when you get the annual extension, do you go to their Bangkok Office or do you get it done in the local Province Office. Could you advise what is required - is it quick and easy or do you have to provide the same/more proof of income and insurance documents again? 

Can be done at local office - like the 90-day report, the yearly report, if you leave the country, then upon return your next 1-year report is the anniversary of your return nothing else required for yearly report unless you are visiting another area when it is due so you would most likely need a current TM.30 copy, no proof of income or insurance.  Less than 10 minutes at the BOI immigration 90-day window (for 1 year too)

13 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

The future when it comes to Thailand and government plans are hard to predict.  I think all expats, who have lived in Thailand for many years, will know of many plans the  Thai government officials talked about, where there was talk something was going to happen, ...  government officials said so,... and ?  and ?   and nothing transpired.

 

There is a saying in Canada, when it comes to ice-hockey games, in predicting who is going to win the ice-hockey game. The saying is "Its not over until the fat lady sings".  Sort of a funny saying, with a history dating to a fabulous singer, who would often sing at the end of an ice hockey game in a certain city.    But i diverge. 

 

In my case i am not making predictions whether global taxation will or will not, other than state its not a sure thing either way.

 

I will predict thou, it will NOT happen overnight. 

 

That means there is a window NOW for any on the LTR, who have money outside of Thailand , money that will other wise be taxed if remitted if not on an LTR, if the money was brought into Thailand now (on an LTR-WP/WGC) it won't be taxed.  There is a pretty much assured window for the next 2 to 3 years and maybe more, to remit money to Thailand and not have it taxed if on those LTR visas.

 

Further, IF any global taxation system is implemented, and assuming it affects all expats alike, regardless of the Visa, the LTR is still a great visa. Superior, for those of us with the money, to get the visa instead of staying with the Type-O/OA route.   

• who wants to do 90-day reports all the time (per type-O/OA visa)?  Not me.
• who wants to have to sweat through immigration for 1 day per year to do an annual re-proving of one's finances per type-O/OA visa?  Not me.
• who (if under age 70 with no Thai spouse) wants to stand in line for 45 to 60 minutes at the entrance/departure immigration of one is entering or leaving Thailand (as IS the case in Phuket).
• further if on a Type-OA visa, one can NOT self insure.  One can self insure with LTR  with money in a high interest yielding bank account OUTSIDE of Thailand. One can not do that with a Type-OA visa.   ... There is a risk Type-O could also end up having to go for health insurance sometime in the next decade.
• further if on a Type-OA visa one can NOT use a foreign branch of a Health Insurance company. It MUST be health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company.  With an LTR visa one can use a foreign branch of a health insurance company.   And, again, there is the ever present risk a  Type-O could also end up having to go for health insurance at some time in next decade ... .
• the 50,000 THB fee for 10 years for the LTR visa (which includes multiple re-entry) is no more expensive than the 57,000 THB (total over 10 years) for a Type-O/OA if one assumes a multiple re-entry permit was desired to be purchased with the Type-O/OA.  One can even speculate the type-O/OA fee, or the cost of multiple re-entry stamp, could increase in the next 10 years (although I personally hope that does not happen). What are the odds of no price increase in Type-O/OA visa for 10 years.  i would not want to bet on no change. 10 years is a long time.

If there are any on an LTR-WP visa, who share your view that global taxation is around the corner, they have a good window now for those on LTR-WP/WGC to bring money into Thailand to provide living expenses for a number of future years.

 

Of course, your elephant in the room - we get here into a debate on what is considered wealthy where for some, the $100k US equivalent in a high interest yielding foreign bank account, for self health insurance is not a big issue for some who are wealthy, but it is an issue for others who consider themselves wealthy (but are not in BoI's assessment)..

 

This really depends on one's financial circumstances, ... I still maintain, it is better to go for the LTR now, if one wishes to live in Thailand > 6 months/per calendar year, especially if planning to bring a lot of money into Thailand (such as purchasing a condo while one plans to reside in Thailand long enough to be a tax resident).  Waiting gives no advantage IF one plans anyway to live in Thailand for more than 1/2 of a calendar year 

 

... where clearly I type that from the view that if one is sufficiently wealthy to qualify for the wealthy pensioner LTR,  one should either buy health insurance (that meets BoI requirements) or put the money in a high interest yielding bank account outside of Thailand to self insure. If that is an issue, then is one wealthy?  Perhaps BoI does not consider one is wealthy if that is an issue.

 

Of course clearly, it boils down to what we both agree on (I believe) - that it really depends on each person's own financial situation.

 

Yes it is clearly the right decision for you to take. I just dont know why you keep having to prove that to me. For me it is not the right option - yet.

13 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I have dual citizenship ... Canadian and that of a European country. i worked for many years as a 'civil servant' (in essence) for a European government organisation (not for an EU country government, rather i worked for a government organisation  in Europe run by European counties).  While i worked there one of the perks was I received was/is Global Health insurance.  I paid 50% (out of my salary) and the government organisation paid 50%. 

 

When I retired , with a pension from that organization, another perk was i could maintain my global health insurance  (no matter where in the world i lived  - albeit USA/Canada coverage was limited) and further, the government organisation would pay 50% or more of my Health insurance costs, where regardless of my age, the amount i paid was capped at a certain amount (currently ~200 euros/month that I pay).  Even better (for me) the European organisation share is that they pay more than ~200 euros/month ... and as i grow older they will continue to have to pay more, but myself not so much more - my amount is already capped ).  The Health insurance covers both me and my younger Thai wife.  When I pass away, she gets my European organisation pension, and IMHO if she is smart, she will keep that subsidized health insurance (she is allowed to).  Its a bargain.

 

However as noted in other posts, when I applied for the LTR visa,  I did not know how to get the letter to prove the Health Insurance to BoI, so I health insured.  Self insuring with cash in an interest bearing bank account was not a big issue to me. Not in the slightest.  i type that noting the VAST amount of my finances are in equities outside of Thailand .

 

Saying what i posted before, but in different terms, BoI have their own definition of 'wealthy' and while some might meet most of BoI's requirements, the financial (?) pain they have to meet all of BoI's requirements, might end up being that such individuals are not sufficiently wealthy by BoIs definition.  Yes. Its unfortunate. As the saying goes, this is Thailand.

 

For those not getting the LTR, fortunately that is not an issue, as the Type-O is a great visa (as long as the type-O visa remains with no health insurance requirement and as long as it remains with no big annual cost increases, over the next decade (where I say the next decade as I am thinking in terms of an equivalent to duration to the 10-year LTR visa)).

Seems most holders of LTR are in a similar situation regarding health insurance, in that they have not purchased the insurance locally and are not paying rip-off premiums.  Some are - but most are not - based on this thread.

13 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

This is not 100% accurate ... I believe the TRD officer you quote was talking generalities.

 

MANY state pensions, from people who are  not receiving government civil servant pensions nor receiving military pensions, but who have a state pension from their non-Thai country government, ARE taxable in Thailand, dependent on the DTA. 

 

For example, German state pensions from the German government  (ie pension for those who were not civil servants/ex-military) are TAXABLE in Thailand.  I will let the Australians who actually dug thru their Thai-Australia DTA comment, but I believe the same could be true for Australia, where state pensions  (ie pension for those who were not civil servants/ex-military) are TAXABLE in Thailand. 

 

All pensions provided by Governments are not excluded Thai taxation.  OK?  All are not.  it is more nuanced than that.

 

Yes, pensions of Civil Servant/Military from countries with DTAs with Thailand are all, to the best of my knowledge, exempt Thal taxation.     But state pensions, from governments of some countries (where these are not civil servant/military) are taxable in a number of cases by Thailand.  Not all. But some.

 

Also - another point noting that TRD official was likely talking in generalities, but not about all circumstances.   Thai citizens, who (say via having dual citizenship) are in MANY cases, are taxed by Thailand on their foreign government civil servant pensions.  That is agreed / signed upon and easily available to confirm just by examining a number of country DTAs with Thailand.

 

And another point re "all governments" ...  Further, for example pensions of EU government civil servants (not EU country governments, but EU government - there is a difference !! ) are taxable by Thailand. Nominally they have no DTA to protect them from Thai taxation on their pension.

 

 

Lets agree to disagree on this one.  I know a bit about taxation laws having worked with (not for) the ATO for over 20 years and been always doing my own taxes both private and business. What she said and it was very clear - Thais are not taxed on their Govt Pensions and therefore all Thai tax residents are entitled to the same exemption on taxation. She also pointed out, as I have said for a long time, that DTAs are designed for businesses and those working for them, and that local tax laws are more important than the wording of a DTA.  This does not apply 'the other way' though - something not taxable in Australia can be taxable in Thailand - such as the sale of a property. Having said all that - if what you think is correct, then that is a good reason not to provide the Thai Government with all my overseas financial information through applying for an LTR Visa. 

 

IMO Thailand will do the same under a global taxation system (if/when starts) as Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and many other 'retiree' destination countries, and specifically exclude the income brought into Thailand being subjected to income taxes - as long as it has been 'subjected' to the taxation rules of the country in which that money was earned. 

21 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes it is clearly the right decision for you to take. I just dont know why you keep having to prove that to me. For me it is not the right option - yet.

Totally agree.  I was here in the 1970's, big demos, students rioting and being arrested and heard disappeared.  Then after I retired here in the early 2000's again rioting, shootings and the same old crap.  Meanwhile the average Thai just gets poorer and poorer will IMHO much hope of any improvement.  While I am not a fan of the negative income tax, and while unless the DTA treaties are abandoned, I wouldn't be affected but at least the poorest of the people would be getting funds based on the taxes from the richest.  That is why I thought they were going to give 2 years of free taxes on foreign funds earned worldwide before they began the negative income taxes in 2027 - this was reportedly a Thaksin plan but I still do not believe the richest local people will really be willing to pay high taxes.  I also believe that they will be pushing for all tax residents to begin filing a tax form whether taxes are owed or not.  But, just like all the rest of this country, no one has any idea yet what this "temporary" govt will do.  I do hope the best though for everyone as I wouldn't like to see a crowd leave.

You keep talking about rip-off insurance of 120k plus, but you can buy a LTR approved policy from AXA insurance for 22,875 Baht per annum. I posted my policy details on this thread already.

 

Do you consider 22,875 Baht per annum a rip-off? I don't. That's a pretty trivial amount, especially considering my yearly extension money is in the US now, earning 4% interest. The interest exceeds the 22,875 Baht per annum, so that pays for the insurance. Maybe we have different definitions of what wealthy means, because 22,875 Baht is pretty trivial in my book.

 

Based on your latest posts, it sounds like the total cost of getting a LTR visa is too much. So, you will stay on yearly extensions for now. That sounds like it's the right decision for you. Good luck in the future.

On 9/6/2025 at 11:52 PM, scoutman360 said:

Sorry I don't know how to use mutiquote

 

1) Yes, there is a file size limit. I think it was 2MB per document? If you upload anything over the limit, the system ignores it. My tax return (PDF) size was huge. I found websites online that reduce files sizes for you. Yeah, you gotta upload your file. Just make sure your SSO# is blocked. 

 

2) I tried to sign mine with a mouse, and it looked unrecognizable. I borrowed my GF Apple Notepad and signed using my finger. Still laughable, but it worked. 

 

3) The empty entries were most likely because the file size was too big.  That happened to me. 

 

4) I am very sure that the website gives you an option to delete any of your uploaded files. I used it frequently in order to update my files. 

 

5) I think you are talking about the section that asks about your "current year" income to date. I didn't see anything asking for 365 day of income. I applied for my LTR in March which only gave me 2 months of this year to share my current income for this year. Most of my Capital Gains arrive in December. So, with only 2 months into this year, my records were depressing. I told the truth and the BIO had no problems. My advice is to not worry. They will focus on your previous year passive income. 

 

 

Thanks very much for your detailed response.

 

1) I have reduced file sizes to under 1 MB except for the passport, which is 4.6 MB. Even the earlier passport file at 17 MB seemed to have been accepted since it showed after uploading and logging on again. I can rescan the passport at 200 dpi (instead of current 300 dpi) to see whether I can stay under 2 MB.

 

2) I just used my iPad with an Apple pencil. It works perfectly. However, I could not figure out how to open pdfs. I could only open jpgs in the download file, so now I'm back on the Windows desktop.

 

3) Entries previously filled are not necessarily ones with attachments. It's my Thai address that disappeared (and other entries), but I did not enter a US address, since I don't live at my contact address there. Is putiing no foreign address a problem?

 

5) I will try entering current year from 1 January rather than the previous 365 days.

On 9/6/2025 at 11:52 PM, scoutman360 said:

5) I think you are talking about the section that asks about your "current year" income to date. I didn't see anything asking for 365 day of income. I applied for my LTR in March which only gave me 2 months of this year to share my current income for this year. Most of my Capital Gains arrive in December. So, with only 2 months into this year, my records were depressing. I told the truth and the BIO had no problems. My advice is to not worry. They will focus on your previous year passive income. 

I just tried to enter 1 January, but it's impossible. If choosing this year, it puts today's date as "start" as well as "end". So I will go back to previous  plan.

On 9/6/2025 at 11:52 PM, scoutman360 said:

1) Yes, there is a file size limit. I think it was 2MB per document? If you upload anything over the limit, the system ignores it. My tax return (PDF) size was huge. I found websites online that reduce files sizes for you. Yeah, you gotta upload your file. Just make sure your SSO# is blocked. 

After submitting the LTRWP filing, I clicked on the button on the acceptance to see the filing. I was nearly blank. Then I looked at the "check status" tab. The submission was there as well as various saved drafts. On them there a lot of the entries and files had disappeared, so I tried calling the BOI, and for the first time someone answered. They looked at my submission online, and apparently the entries and files are there! 

 

I asked about file size. They said that 4.6 MB for the passport file is OK. The only issue is the photo where there is a 2 MB limit. I forgot to ask about the current income issue. What I did was to enter income for the last 365 days. Apparently, if they have a question, they send an email.

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Lets agree to disagree on this one. 

 

Yes likely we will have to agree to disagree on that.

 

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

What she said and it was very clear - Thais are not taxed on their Govt Pensions and therefore all Thai tax residents are entitled to the same exemption on taxation.

 

No. that is not 100% accurate.

 

Thai government pensions are provided from within Thailand to Thai people.  If a Thai person receives a government pension from outside of Thailand (possible if they have dual citizenship) that foreign remitted pension it is taxable by Thailand in some cases according to the relevant Double Tax Agreements (DTAs).

 

The many Double Tax Agreements (DTAs) are quite clear on this. I can only assume you never took the time to look at different DTAs. 

 

You totally forgot that Thai pensions from Thailand are not money remitted to Thailand. The nominal Thai pension money to Thai people is paid from within Thailand to Thai people inside not Thailand. It is not paid from outside of Thailand. It is not remitted to Thailand

 

Foreign government pensions are remitted income. Thailand is a remittance taxation system.  Honestly, you could not be more wrong here.

 

Now perhaps, if Thailand changes to a global taxation system, then this will change, and foreign government (state) pensions will be treated the same as Thailand pensions to Thai people, despite what the DTAs say (where DTAs such as German-Thai quite clearly state Thailand has the right to tax German state (non-civil service) pensions. Thailand in cases can tax those foreign pensions per the DTA, and further being a remittance taxation system , with the information in both Thai tax law, and in Thai ministerial documents por.161/162, they can tax those foreign pensions.

 

IMHO you need to your do research some more here. READ the applicable DTA for your income source. Look at the Thai tax law.  Look at those ministerial documents.

 

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

She also pointed out, as I have said for a long time, that DTAs are designed for businesses and those working for them, and that local tax laws are more important than the wording of a DTA. 

 

You are jumping to wrong conclusions. DTAs cover BOTH business and individual people.  If you believe they are only for business then you are horribly wrong. You need to spend more time researching this .

 

 

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO Thailand will do the same under a global taxation system (if/when starts) as Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and many other 'retiree' destination countries, and specifically exclude the income brought into Thailand being subjected to income taxes - as long as it has been 'subjected' to the taxation rules of the country in which that money was earned. 

 

As I noted in another thread ... wait until the fat lady sings.

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes it is clearly the right decision for you to take. I just dont know why you keep having to prove that to me. For me it is not the right option - yet.

 

Yes - its based on your financial situation.

 

But if you wish to remit money to Thailand (and are not on an LTR-WP/WGC visa), in the next 2 to 3 years, where that money is not pre-1-Jan-2024 savings, but rather it is current income, then that remitted money is potentially taxable by Thailand per Thai tax law, and as clarified in Thai ministerial documents Por.161/162 (taxable if you are considered a Thai tax resident). 

 

LTR-WP/WGC holders, at present, are exempt taxation on such current income remitted to Thailand.  

 

The Thai RD did not write their tax law, nor ministerial directives just applicable to me.  All expats (who have the funds) are subject to such. ... 

 

I do agree thou - it is based on one's individual financial situation. The Thai BoI have laid out requirements that expats to Thailand need to show for BoI to consider them wealthy pensioners. As i noted before, if structuring one's finances to meet those BoI proof of wealth requirements is unpleasant, then fortunately, as long as it does not change, the Type-O non-immigrant visa is a great visa. 

 

4 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Seems most holders of LTR are in a similar situation regarding health insurance, in that they have not purchased the insurance locally and are not paying rip-off premiums.  Some are - but most are not - based on this thread.

 

That could be.   

 

The 'trick' here is to obtain the letter from one's foreign branch of a health insurance company, that has the exact wording in the letter, that BoI expect.  

 

I did not know that (exact wording), so I went the self health insurance route for my LTR-WP. That self health insurance proof  took me a few iterations, as I tried to use accounts which had the pre-requisite amount in cash, but because trading equities was possible also with those accounts ,the accounts were disallowed by BoI. I ended up using a bank account in Euros to meet the Self Health Insurance amount ... and restructured my finances elsewhere to make up for that Euro  account then being tied up. 

 

I had been reluctant to use the Euro account (for self health insurance) as I had other plans for that money.  Hence some financial restructuring was need by me to ensure that I could still financially do what the Euro account was intended for.

 

Had I known about the letter (that would satisfy BoI's need for Health Insurance proof), i would have gone with my superb, subsidized European health insurance.  I plan to switch to that European Health insurance proof, if allowed, when I reprove my finances (to qualify for next 5 years of LTR visa) in year 2028.

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

You are jumping to wrong conclusions. DTAs cover BOTH business and individual people.  If you believe they are only for business then you are horribly wrong. You need to spend more time researching this .

I am a retired person, and I use the Thai-US DTA. "Article 20 covers four types of payments which share the trait that they are typically paid or received by individuals as “personal” items. Pensions, social security payments, annuities, alimony and child support payments paid to the resident of a contracting state shall be taxable only in the state where they arise." https://thailawforum.com/articles/taxleeds.html#50

9 minutes ago, placnx said:

I am a retired person, and I use the Thai-US DTA. "Article 20 covers four types of payments which share the trait that they are typically paid or received by individuals as “personal” items. Pensions, social security payments, annuities, alimony and child support payments paid to the resident of a contracting state shall be taxable only in the state where they arise." https://thailawforum.com/articles/taxleeds.html#50

Yes indeed. 

 

It depends on wording of relevant DTAs. 

 

All Canadian pensions are taxable only by Canada per the Thai/ Canada DTA, even if one is a tax resident of Thailand. 

 

However as noted, German government (non civil service) pensions are not taxable in Germany if one is a tax resident of Thailand but are taxable in Thailand, per the German/ Thai DTA. 

 

It all depends on the relevant DTA.

27 minutes ago, placnx said:

I am a retired person, and I use the Thai-US DTA. "Article 20 covers four types of payments which share the trait that they are typically paid or received by individuals as “personal” items. Pensions, social security payments, annuities, alimony and child support payments paid to the resident of a contracting state shall be taxable only in the state where they arise." https://thailawforum.com/articles/taxleeds.html#50

I wonder if pensions from prviate US companies remitted to Thailand are tax exempt in Thailand if the person is a tax resident. The law you refer to seems to refer to Government pensions. It doesn't say anything about private US company pensions. It may be better for me to go back to the tax forum rather than this new LTR thread to get the correct answer.

Pensions, Social Security Payments, Annuities, Alimony and Child Support

Article 20 covers four types of payments which share the trait that they are typically paid or received by individuals as “personal” items. Pensions, social security payments, annuities, alimony and child support payments paid to the resident of a contracting state shall be taxable only in the state where they arise.⁽³⁹⁾

Government Service

Remuneration paid by a contracting state or a political subdivision of that contracting state shall be taxable in that state.

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

All Canadian pensions are taxable only by Canada per the Thai/ Canada DTA, even if one is a tax resident of Thailand. 

Just curious, does the "taxable only by Canada" include private company pensions also?

17 hours ago, placnx said:

) Entries previously filled are not necessarily ones with attachments. It's my Thai address that disappeared (and other entries), but I did not enter a US address, since I don't live at my contact address there. Is putiing no foreign address a problem?

 I didn't have this problem. Try a different browser. Turn off all popup blockers, ad blockers, etc. That is the only thing I could suggest. I had to do this for other websites to work. 

14 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

Just curious, does the "taxable only by Canada" include private company pensions also?

 

We are getting a bit of topic (re: LTR visa) but my understanding is YES, it includes private company pensions where that company has a permanent establishment in Canada.  Those private pensions are only taxable in Canada and not in Thailand.  And Canada does tax them. 

 

This is what the Thai-Canada DTA says (and I inserted "Canada" and "Thailand" and "RRSP/RRIF" in the wording to attempt to make it easier to read" ).  I re-typed it (not a copy/paste) so hopefully I typed it correctly.

 

Quote

 

ARTICLE XVIII

 

Pensions

 

1. Pensions and other similar remunerations, whether they consist of period or non-periodic payments, or past employment, arising in a Contracting State (Canada) and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State (Thailand) shall be taxable only the first-mentioned State (Canada).

 

2. For the purposes of paragraph 1 such remuneration for past employment shall be deemed to arise in a Contracting State (Canada) if the payer is that State (Canada) itself,  a political Subdivison, a local authority, or a resident of that state (ie RRSP/RRIF).  Where, however, the person paying such income, whether he is a resident of a Contracting State (Canada) or not, has in a Contracting State (Canada-private company) a permanent establishment, and such income is borne by such permanent establishment (Canada - private company), then such income shall be deemed to arise in the Contracting State (Canada) in which the permanent establishment is situated. 

 

 

 

I should add, I am not a tax advisor. It is on occasion a good idea to get proper professional advice.

 

23 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

Yes likely we will have to agree to disagree on that.

 

 

No. that is not 100% accurate.

 

Thai government pensions are provided from within Thailand to Thai people.  If a Thai person receives a government pension from outside of Thailand (possible if they have dual citizenship) that foreign remitted pension it is taxable by Thailand in some cases according to the relevant Double Tax Agreements (DTAs).

 

The many Double Tax Agreements (DTAs) are quite clear on this. I can only assume you never took the time to look at different DTAs. 

 

You totally forgot that Thai pensions from Thailand are not money remitted to Thailand. The nominal Thai pension money to Thai people is paid from within Thailand to Thai people inside not Thailand. It is not paid from outside of Thailand. It is not remitted to Thailand

 

Foreign government pensions are remitted income. Thailand is a remittance taxation system.  Honestly, you could not be more wrong here.

 

Now perhaps, if Thailand changes to a global taxation system, then this will change, and foreign government (state) pensions will be treated the same as Thailand pensions to Thai people, despite what the DTAs say (where DTAs such as German-Thai quite clearly state Thailand has the right to tax German state (non-civil service) pensions. Thailand in cases can tax those foreign pensions per the DTA, and further being a remittance taxation system , with the information in both Thai tax law, and in Thai ministerial documents por.161/162, they can tax those foreign pensions.

 

IMHO you need to your do research some more here. READ the applicable DTA for your income source. Look at the Thai tax law.  Look at those ministerial documents.

 

 

You are jumping to wrong conclusions. DTAs cover BOTH business and individual people.  If you believe they are only for business then you are horribly wrong. You need to spend more time researching this .

 

 

 

As I noted in another thread ... wait until the fat lady sings.

Yep - lets agree to disagree on all that. 

23 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

Yes - its based on your financial situation.

 

But if you wish to remit money to Thailand (and are not on an LTR-WP/WGC visa), in the next 2 to 3 years, where that money is not pre-1-Jan-2024 savings, but rather it is current income, then that remitted money is potentially taxable by Thailand per Thai tax law, and as clarified in Thai ministerial documents Por.161/162 (taxable if you are considered a Thai tax resident). 

 

LTR-WP/WGC holders, at present, are exempt taxation on such current income remitted to Thailand.  

 

The Thai RD did not write their tax law, nor ministerial directives just applicable to me.  All expats (who have the funds) are subject to such. ... 

 

I do agree thou - it is based on one's individual financial situation. The Thai BoI have laid out requirements that expats to Thailand need to show for BoI to consider them wealthy pensioners. As i noted before, if structuring one's finances to meet those BoI proof of wealth requirements is unpleasant, then fortunately, as long as it does not change, the Type-O non-immigrant visa is a great visa. 

 

One reason I was thinking of LTR is that I remitted a lot of money into Thailand over last year - buying house and car and a heap of other stuff. Indications are it would meet the 'investment' in Thai Property requirement.  No need to bring a lot into the country over new few years - so dont need LTR for that purpose.  

23 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

That could be.   

 

The 'trick' here is to obtain the letter from one's foreign branch of a health insurance company, that has the exact wording in the letter, that BoI expect.  

 

I did not know that (exact wording), so I went the self health insurance route for my LTR-WP. That self health insurance proof  took me a few iterations, as I tried to use accounts which had the pre-requisite amount in cash, but because trading equities was possible also with those accounts ,the accounts were disallowed by BoI. I ended up using a bank account in Euros to meet the Self Health Insurance amount ... and restructured my finances elsewhere to make up for that Euro  account then being tied up. 

 

I had been reluctant to use the Euro account (for self health insurance) as I had other plans for that money.  Hence some financial restructuring was need by me to ensure that I could still financially do what the Euro account was intended for.

 

Had I known about the letter (that would satisfy BoI's need for Health Insurance proof), i would have gone with my superb, subsidized European health insurance.  I plan to switch to that European Health insurance proof, if allowed, when I reprove my finances (to qualify for next 5 years of LTR visa) in year 2028.

Sounds like a good option going forward.  By the way - at the 5 year point do you have to 'prove' you met all the financial requirements for each of those 5 years?  Or is it just the year of the 5 year extension? 

On 9/8/2025 at 2:04 PM, JohnnyBD said:

You keep talking about rip-off insurance of 120k plus, but you can buy a LTR approved policy from AXA insurance for 22,875 Baht per annum. I posted my policy details on this thread already.

 

Do you consider 22,875 Baht per annum a rip-off? I don't. That's a pretty trivial amount, especially considering my yearly extension money is in the US now, earning 4% interest. The interest exceeds the 22,875 Baht per annum, so that pays for the insurance. Maybe we have different definitions of what wealthy means, because 22,875 Baht is pretty trivial in my book.

 

Based on your latest posts, it sounds like the total cost of getting a LTR visa is too much. So, you will stay on yearly extensions for now. That sounds like it's the right decision for you. Good luck in the future.

I talk about that as the first LTR compliant quote - and then IO got another for 50+K - and then the 22K for a policy you showed that was basically for nothing - with no coverage for most things and a massive deductible. Even that amount totals 220K over 10 years, but the truth is when I hit 70 premiums will increase a lot, and then increase again a lot when I hit 75 (based on other's premiums).  Plus if I ever make a claim, the premiums will also increase a lot. I would say 400-500K over 10 years if no claim  - who knows how much over 10 years if I ever made a claim. 

 

The 400K money not put aside for extension purposes and it could earn interest back home is fair point. But that is only for 6 months (3 before and 3 after) so it would need to generate interest at 11% PA. Plus as the premiums go up every year the interest would need to increase too.   

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I talk about that as the first LTR compliant quote - and then IO got another for 50+K - and then the 22K for a policy you showed that was basically for nothing - with no coverage for most things and a massive deductible. Even that amount totals 220K over 10 years, but the truth is when I hit 70 premiums will increase a lot, and then increase again a lot when I hit 75 (based on other's premiums).  Plus if I ever make a claim, the premiums will also increase a lot. I would say 400-500K over 10 years if no claim  - who knows how much over 10 years if I ever made a claim. 

 

The 400K money not put aside for extension purposes and it could earn interest back home is fair point. But that is only for 6 months (3 before and 3 after) so it would need to generate interest at 11% PA. Plus as the premiums go up every year the interest would need to increase too.   

Based on your posts, it appears the LTR visa is not worth it to you, and you've decided to stay on yearly extensions. Good for you. The Non-O is a very good visa. I was on yearly extrensions for 8 years. I just disliked those yearly renewals & 90-day reports.

 

The LTR is well worth it to me, and many others who are weathly enough to afford it. It gives me peace of mind, and I won't need to see IM again for another 4 years.

 

Good luck to you in the future, and take care.

5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

By the way - at the 5 year point do you have to 'prove' you met all the financial requirements for each of those 5 years?  Or is it just the year of the 5 year extension? 

My understanding is one has to reprove they meet all the financial requirements at the 5 year point. 

 

Also, there was an advisory on the BoI web page for the LTR that LTR visa holders are to be careful to ensure they maintain their meeting the requirements through the timeframe in which the visa is held. I can't recall the precise wording. 

 

I don't think anyone has arrived at the 5 year point so I am curious to learn of any stories re the reproving of finances.

54 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I don't think anyone has arrived at the 5 year point so I am curious to learn of any stories re the reproving of finances.

Yes, we're still a ways out from getting firsthand reports.  Will be very interesting to see.

34 minutes ago, BrandonJT said:

Yes, we're still a ways out from getting firsthand reports.  Will be very interesting to see.

If I had used retirement withdrawals and/or realized capital gains to meet the $80k passive income requirement, I would definitely make sure I kept up that $80k income every year. My guess is, they will ask for proof of income for the past 5 years at the renewal. Same for the health insurance or $100k in bank. Luckily, I used my pensions to qualify, so no worries there. The only thing, I plan to change from health insurance to $100k in the bank at my next renewal date., so hopefully I can do that.

12 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Even that amount totals 220K over 10 years, but the truth is when I hit 70 premiums will increase a lot, and then increase again a lot when I hit 75 (based on other's premiums).  Plus if I ever make a claim, the premiums will also increase a lot. I would say 400-500K over 10 years if no claim  - who knows how much over 10 years if I ever made a claim. 

I fully understand your situation. Healthcare in Thailand is so affordable, it's really a waste of money to buy insurnace. Fortunately, I can use the $100k in the bank method going forward. I always keep at least $100k on hand for the wife in case something should happen to me, but last year when I applied for my LTR-WP visa, I bought the insurance because I needed to use my cash to purchase some real estate. Since then, I have been able to save up $100k, so when my insurance policy expires, I can put $100k in a high-yield savings acct and self-insure so I don't have to buy the LTR insurance anymore.

3 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I always keep at least $100k on hand for the wife in case something should happen to me, but last year when I applied for my LTR-WP visa, I bought the insurance because I needed to use my cash to purchase some real estate. Since then, I have been able to save up $100k, so when my insurance policy expires, I can put $100k in a high-yield savings acct and self-insure so I don't have to buy the LTR insurance anymore.

Need to well understand that the $100K will have to be locked (money can't be used and account balance cannot fall 1 cent below $100K) over the entire visa duration or at least until the 5-year mark renewal being approved. To me, that's a no-no.