11 hours ago, Lorry said:

Ask a disinterested doctor.

A salaried physician in the NHS or a Thai government hospital will be a lot more impartial than many doctors in the private sector.

Google is the second worst option, ChatGPT the worst. 

 

Of course,  there are many things in medicine where different opinions may be valid.

 

even if a doctor isn't making money off of you, their ego might get in the way.

because .... well they would have to admit that some of their procedures are less than ideal. 

is ChatGPT as bad as people think it is?

I'm not sure. It depends how you ask the questions. Ask it multiple questions. Ask it to give examples from real scientific studies. Ask it to give pros and cons, etc.... you might be surprised. I don't think it's garbage.

But neither can you trust it 100%. But it can give you ideas you hadn't thought of. 

 

I was just discharged from Bangkok Hospital Pattaya today, I have had wellness done there and its not cheap, yesterdays adventure was endoscopic decompression. They did MRI and X-rays last week and MRI was 8000 Baht which I thought was reasonable for this place. Yesterday checked in at 9AM, put in a very nice room and they made sure I fasted, Surgery was 5 hours long where they shaved bone away from the nerves L3, L4, L5,  I was oilfield for 43 years and there is a lot wrong with my back but They fixed what was causing all the pain.  

I was told up front 429,000 baht and that wasn't far off final bill, also told if no complications could go home the next day. I paid the money up front and when discharged there was additional 5000Baht which I consider reasonable. From the doctors to the nursing staff to cashier 4th floor everything was great, I was really impressed. They are far better than the treatment I or my wife went through in USA.  I got the whole itemized bill as lady asked if I wanted it.  My problem was resolved I am home and go back next Saturday to remove the stitches,  Pain meds have wore off now and I am pain free.  Good and Cheap don't go well together. I am self insured as both of us are walking pre-existing conditions and over 70,  This facility did what was needed. Sadly back home the story is poor and expensive by what we have experienced unlesss you have really deep pockets.   

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

is ChatGPT as bad as people think it is?

It varies enormously in accuracy, but is only very rarely is it both complete and accurate.

After all, it is only repeating what has been fed into it: it is not being in any way clever or thoughtful. 
Much of my experience comes from knowledge of what such models report about technical material that  I myself authored or implemented. 

@yankyoakum Good to see further praise for BKK Hospital, Pattaya — a true life-saver! 

11 hours ago, Unamerican said:

It varies enormously in accuracy, but is only very rarely is it both complete and accurate.

After all, it is only repeating what has been fed into it: it is not being in any way clever or thoughtful. 
Much of my experience comes from knowledge of what such models report about technical material that  I myself authored or implemented. 

 

I think people my be underestimating ChatGPT.

Yeah it's regurgitating, but it's saving you a lot of time by condensing the information. 

And it provides useful tips. 

I asked the following question. It recommends what questions you can ask your doctor for clarification. 

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

You cannot fully trust the doctor and neither do you know if information online is reliable.

In Thailand, it's quite common to be prescribed meds that have been de-licensed or banned in other countries, particularly the US. Also, like you say, you can get home and then, with time to research the med you've been given, you find out that it is either contraindicated with other meds you are taking, or is an 'off-label' Rx that isn't proven for your condition. I usually ask the doctor what med s/he is prescribing and google it right there in the doctor's office and either accept it or reject it on the spot.

6 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Curious to know if these screws and pins the surgeons use to repair compound fractures and limbs are made of magnetic metals that mean they can't ever have an MRI (not just in this case, but more generally, globally). Do you know the materials normally used? All titanium, or a mix?

Usually titanium (no problem for MRI) but should ask to be sure. 

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Usually titanium (no problem for MRI) but shouod ask to be dure. 

Right. Always ask. Old dental crowns are always a hazard too in my case (I mean really old ones - like 35+ years - where steel was used under the gold/porcelain). The conventional wisdom is to 'ask your dentist' what materials were used in the crowns - but at least one of the dentists for my crowns is now surely dead. And I can't remember where I got the other two (1980-1990). Almost certainly a few contain some kind of metals the MRI magnet will pull on or heat up. Maybe there is some kind of 'faraday cage' for one's mouth at the MRI room 🙃

On 9/14/2025 at 7:15 PM, Sheryl said:

He underwent specialized surgery which was sufficiently complex that local military hospital was unable to perform it.

That in itself is remarkable, I thought they'd be the experts in trauma surgery? 

 

Note to self: Watch MASH again..

45 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

it's saving you a lot of time by condensing the information

Yes, sure, BUT Only if the original information is both relevant and correct, and the condensation does not alter it. 
But I agree that you got good information by using it! 

4 hours ago, Peter Crow said:

That in itself is remarkable, I thought they'd be the experts in trauma surgery? 

 

Note to self: Watch MASH again..

It was a rather small military hospital

On 9/13/2025 at 11:46 AM, Daniel4 said:

I’m looking for a bit of advice and experiences here, facts not thoughts please. I would be particularly interested in any native Thai’s experiences. It’s a long story but I’ve tried to be concise while containing the main parts. There are many other facets to it involving meeting with police and the guilty party but my big gripe here is with the  (hospital name removed by Moderator)  their standards, greed and tactics to extort

 

I was in a bad motorcycle accident, crossing a clear roundabout when a pick up truck came into my path at a fairly rapid speed. Of course death comes to mind instantly but somehow I was able to break and swerve to have a side impact with the pick up’s passenger door and front faring. Somehow I survived the accident with just a severely fractured collarbone, a few bumps and scrapes and a limp. The Gods were on my side, I was rushed to a local military hospital by ambulance.

 

My motorcycle insurers investigator was quick in getting to me in hospital checking my condition and confirming everything will be ok for my motorcycle and my medical treatment. He was in discussions with the police, saw the CCTV footage and scattered motorcycle. Both he and the police confirmed that the pick up driver was in total violation and that the motorcyclist had take the correct steps in approaching and entering the roundabout etc.

 

I was patched up after Xrays, CT scans etc and released from hospital with a surgeon consultation the following Monday. At the consultation the surgeon informed me of my injury, a severely fractured collarbone, and explained they do not have the capabilities to operate on me and that if I had insurance then I should go to a nearby private hospital, (hospital name removed by Moderator) . Failing that he suggested cheaper options with good private facilities within two hours drive at Phetchaburi and Ratchaburi provinces.

 

I travelled up to (hospital name removed by Moderator) and consulted a surgeon. He asked my medical history, and if I had insurance cover, I complied fully with his requests. He conformed a figure in the region of ฿250,000 which I felt my combined insurance would cover adequately. Back home one hour later I receive correspondence from the Cashier s Dept with an estimated treatment cost of ฿270,000 - ฿300,000. I queried this and asked for this figure to be checked thoroughly because the difference is as much as 20% in the space of one hour, No one called me back, In hindsight I should have walked away at this point. Pain bearing down on me changed my mind along with the importance of the urgent need for correctional surgery.

 

The hospital cashier sent an email asking for all my insurance cover policies, police report, passport and couple of other items. Everything was sent over by email. I then received a call soon afterwards telling me they have all the documents required and my insurance cover is up to ฿330,000 so I am fully covered for the operation. I was then invited to make a hospital submission for operation. I stated that they had to deal with the compulsory vehicle insurance from the guilty party towards the cost of treatment. This was ignored as the police report was not detailed enough in their view. This was morally wrong but I had little time to argue and I stupidly agreed knowing the likelihood that the (hospital name removed by Moderator)would push estimate levels to greed levels.

 

I was submitted to hospital one day later and went through the operation successfully. The whole hospital experience was less than I had expected, disappointing really and the end result, just despicable.

 

Moving on to discharge day after a one night stay in hospital. Surgeon visited me in my designated room, asked how I felt etc. I said surprisingly good but of course I was jacked up with all sorts of antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and painkillers nevertheless I felt ok but very tired from the constant nursing interruptions during the night. He stated OK we can discharge you today but rest for the next two hours when the cashier will contact you about discharging and settlement, you will be able to go home at 1pm, no problem I said. I got no rest there were nine nursing and domestic interruptions within the next hour and I lost count after that, just disgraceful.

 

After 12pm noon I received a visit from the cashier asking me a few questions about hypertension and how the accident occurred. I explained you have the police report and full medical history, your nurses have taken my blood pressure on more than twenty occasions over the past 24 hours nevertheless I will write down the lead up to the accident. She thanked me and stated I have to stay in the room for the next 60-90 minutes while they tie everything up. OK, I felt nervous, like they thought I was lying. 3pm passes (three hours later not 90 minutes) and I wander one floor down to the Cashiers office. Nurses attempted to stop me leaving the floor I was on, I told them to not treat me like a penned animal, open the security door or i’ll find a way through it. They opened it. Incarceration came to mind at this point and I was raging. I stepped into the cashiers office to find they had not yet completed finalisation on one of my insurance policies. I told them to hurry up I wanted to go home and as I cannot drive I need to arrange for my wife to come and pick up our parked car to take me home.

 

4pm passes and still no word, I see the incarceration plan and now fully expect there to be a twist. I take my bags and clothes and again wander down to the Cashier’s Office without security door interruption this time. I tell them I am going home if things are not finalised now. They are holding me against my will and they will not get far doing that. At this point they tell me the final insurance policy from which they were subtracting ฿66,000 had questions about my health and they want me to pay this amount to be discharged. I explained you have had all my health and accident documentation for around 72-96 hours now, you checked prior to inviting me to the hospital for treatment, or did you? Who has been irresponsible? as someone has been? I refused to pay, I didn’t have the funds to pay and had I the funds I still would not have paid. You could have rejected my hospital submission and I could have gone to another cheaper private or indeed public hospital. You now have the problem as you advised me everything was good. If you have done your jobs correctly perhaps this would not have occurred. The guilt on all three of their faces led me to believe they knew they’d made a huge mistake. I mentioned there bowed heads and lack of understanding over humiliating me. I told them you pay for your own mistakes or you sue the other insurer for false information. It’s really that simple.

 

I told them I stayed twenty minutes drive away, they can visit me at home but I’m leaving this building now, no one will stop me, I am being incarcerated against my will. The nursing staff outside the Cashier’s Office obviously felt the commotion next door was fun as they were all laughing loudly. I told them to shut up and open the goddam security door. I am a powerfully built guy and when the little security guards attempted to whisk me back into the building I told them to back off and step aside or I would contact the police.  They indeed backed off.   I dumped my stuff in my car and painfully drove home.

 

An utterly horrible experience at the hands of (hospital name removed by Moderator). When I got home I complained bitterly to the lead Cashier office management. 18 or so hours later I have head nothing from them. They’re a despicable organisation. I would very much appreciate any similar instances anyone has faced. I am worn out tired, in severe pain and just want to nail these charlatans to the floor for their behaviour.

 

Where do I stand, what, if anything, have I done wrong, where do I go from here?

Had much the same experience at a public hospital here . I have zero trust in any Thai hospitals now. Would rather just die home alone before they drain my bank account and deport me. Agree the nurses every hour gets on your nerves. Why?

14 hours ago, Globalres said:

I have personally opted out of the allopathic system after many years of misdiagnosis, over-prescribed antibiotics, sleeping pills, stronger drugs than needed which have contributed to long lasting side effects, which are finally subsiding.  Allopathic drugs/hospitals are great for emergencies, of any kind, be it accidents, broken bones, acute severe food poisoning and many other instances.

 

Having said that, I have found a holistic doctor who has a PhD in neuroscience, a doctorate in cellular and molecular biology, graduated in TCM at Nanjing medical university in China, graduated/studied Ayurdevic/thai herbal/homeopathic medicine.  So this doctor has a very high education from both western and eastern medicine.  This doctor has healed my gut problems from overprescribed drugs, and furthermore treating my lungs (I have COPD), they have never felt so good in 10 yrs.  
 

This doctor spent some years working in the allopathic arena, but found that the emphasis was not on healing the patient but on managing the symptoms (which is what the majority of pharma drugs do), and opted out of this “assembly line” system. I consider myself fortunate indeed and have finally found a path to true healing that does not depend upon lifelong drug prescriptions.  Instead, “nudging” the body through correct nutrients and treatments it regains the capacity for self healing, the way it was originally intended to do.  The change in energy and physical well being has been remarkable, but it needs time and dedication, but the results are, I repeat, remarkable.  
 

However, we each decide on what we feel is best for our own circumstances, and FYI I am 76yrs old and truly believed that the rest of my life was going to be in discomfort.  I am so grateful for having researched science papers, medical procedures at least 3hrs a day for over 5 yrs, and finally decided to  switch treatment methods.  For me it has paid off 😊

Where is this Doctor practicing?

His/Her name and contact details, please.

On 9/14/2025 at 8:05 PM, BritManToo said:

Nope,

No surgery, it's not normal for a broken collarbone, and if it was so serious that they needed to cut him open, he wouldn't have been walking out carrying a bag the next day.

I have no idea where you get this information.

 

There was indeed surgery, very neccessary surgery I was told.  Multiple fractures, 5 in total, required general anaesthetic pulling bone fragments together and pinning to a titanium bar.. I felt ok next morning other than post op pain.  Luckily I do have two arms and was easily able to carry my kit bag.  

On 9/15/2025 at 12:00 PM, Sheryl said:

Clavicle fractures are not all the same. It can be a simple fracture without dislocation. Or it can be dislocated. Dislicated fractions can sometimed be refuced without surgery and sometimes not. . The bone can be in shards. There can be one or several points of break.  Etc etc. Treatment will vary accordingly.  Sounds like you had a simple non dislicated fraction. OP's situation was different. 

 

Noteworthy to me in OP account is that surgery was recommended by surgeon at government military hospital.  No possible profit motive there, and military hospital doctors have a lot of trauma experience.  Also noteworthy that the needed surgery was compkex enough that the military hospital could not do it. 

Exactly as described.  Thank you.

On 9/17/2025 at 12:50 PM, Mark1969 said:

I think quoted costs are just an estimate.

 

Similar to a car repair, they quote an usual amount, but if the repair takes longer then expected or there are other issues the final cost can increase. If you decline an increase you can tow it away.

 

In a hospital scenario, a revised estimate is given at the conclusion, not as the treatment is happening, since it's a health issue. I don't think they can intern you in the hospital for non payment. Isn't it a civil dispute?

 

66k baht is not a lot in that situation if the rest was covered. I would consider that fortunate. That's the deductible I had on my insurance before I would be treated at all.

I woul happily have paid that amount for my health's sake.  The hospital cashiers had not practised due diligence constructing the settlement figures.  Not my fault, I complied fully.  Apologies have since been received over the shoddy way the hospital cashiers behaved  After all, and it appears the point has been missed, I could have arranged surgery in numerous other hospitals At a much lower cost.  The hospital confirmed everything was covered and invited me for surgery.  The 66k figure is neither here nor there, it could have been 500k, it was not my error.

23 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

You're wrong to lose your temper and insulting them.

Bad example of a farang.

(Advice: don't take a scooter but car).

I suppose your Thai(?) wife would handled the situation much better.

Yes, I concur.  Her being more calm may have helped.  Farang or no farang they were in the wrong and treated me badly.  Some are meek and accept wrongdoing.  In my culture we bite back.

22 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

Curious to know if these screws and pins the surgeons use to repair compound fractures and limbs are made of magnetic metals that mean they can't ever have an MRI (not just in this case, but more generally, globally). Do you know the materials normally used? All titanium, or a mix?

I'm unsure in all honesty.  I was only told the bar that was inserted was titanium, pins or screws I do not know which materials were used.

On 9/13/2025 at 8:48 PM, Lorry said:

 

This is NOT normal in Thailand, but it's normal for a certain hospital that cannot be named. 

If you live somewhere with several hospitals nearby, make sure you have a rough idea which hospital is good or ok, and which one is to be avoided. 

 

Sorry to contradict you - but it is normal practice here in Thailand.

 

It happened to me 11 years ago where the Private Hospital admin/Insurance guy tried to get my wife to pay up front for an operation, as he informed her, I wasn't insured. A friend arrived and sorted out - I was insured and he was just trying to extort money.  

 

Four months' later in another part of Thailand a specialist Doctor told me I would never use my right hand again, as a result of the previous accident, but told me to put my hand in warm water twice daily to reduce massive inflammation to a previously, highly pinned, broken hand and wrist. I ignored him - iced my hand upteen times daily and took the online advice of a UK physiotherapist. 6 months' later I had regained 95% use of that hand.

 

Three weeks ago, a drop in my sodium levels and feeling strange and unwell, resulted in an MRI, EEG  stretchered everywhere over one morning at another Private hospital and an invoice for 12,000 Baht. Oh, and they had wanted me to stay overnight, 20 -30,000 baht? No way. Signed a form - that was 3 weeks ago.

 

So,yes it is normal practice- they are a business 1st - medical practices 2nd! 

 

Thank you everyone for describing your experiences, I genuinely appreciated reading about them and they were exactly what I requested.  

 

(paragraph removed by Moderator)

 

The hospital have apologised for their errors and insensitivity. Disingenuine in my opinion. But matters have been settled by the faulty party and i've taken my aftercare elsewhere.

 

 

Some flaming posts have been removed and other posts have been edited to remove flames.

 

Please keep it civil.

3 hours ago, Daniel4 said:

I'm unsure in all honesty.  I was only told the bar that was inserted was titanium, pins or screws I do not know which materials were used.

They too are probably titanium but you should confirm this, important for future reference. If you do nto want to ask, just get all your medical records from the hospital where the surgery was done, it will be in the operative notes somewhere. 

On 9/21/2025 at 1:38 PM, Daniel4 said:

I woul happily have paid that amount for my health's sake.  The hospital cashiers had not practised due diligence constructing the settlement figures.  Not my fault, I complied fully.  Apologies have since been received over the shoddy way the hospital cashiers behaved  After all, and it appears the point has been missed, I could have arranged surgery in numerous other hospitals At a much lower cost.  The hospital confirmed everything was covered and invited me for surgery.  The 66k figure is neither here nor there, it could have been 500k, it was not my error.

 

probably not at as much less cost as you think, unless you were able to get to a tertiary level government hospital which would likely have necessitated travel to Bangkok. 

 

Titanium plates and screws are very expensive, even at government hospitals.

 

As a point of reference, a household  employee of mine covered by the migrant health care scheme (essentially same coverage as Thais under the universal scheme except they pay a modest annual premium for it) had spinal surgery at a government hospital.  The doctor fees, OR charge, labs,  meds, room etc were all free, covered under the scheme as were ordinary supplies but we did have to pay for the titanum plates and screws:  160K baht...and this was more than 12 years ago and may have been lower grade plates & screws than a private hospital would use.  

 

300K under the circumstances is not at all high for complex ortho surgery with instrumentation at a private hospital, and it would have been close to 200K all in even at a government hospital since the bulk of the cost will have been the plates and screws.

 

Which is not to say that there were not errors/inefficiencies in the billing process, obviously there were. This is very, very often the case. Not because of some organized plot to extort money from you, but rather due to either ineptitude or laziness or both on the part of low level staff.

 

BTW there are alternatives to  being "meek and accepting wrongdoing vs.  "biting back".  The former is obviously unwise unless there is very little to lose, but the latter is highly inappropriate in Thai culture and will often make matters much worse for you ... sometimes very dangerously so.

 

Polite, patient persistence is the way to go here. Firm but cool and civil, never nasty or hostile. Bringing in a Thai friend or relative as mediator will also often help.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Daniel4 said:

I'm unsure in all honesty.  I was only told the bar that was inserted was titanium, pins or screws I do not know which materials were used.

Might be worth asking while you still can (about pins and screws). Later in life, if you ever need an MRI you will need the know that or you won't be able to have one (and you sure wouldn't want one if you have any magnetic steel anywhere in your body).

On 9/17/2025 at 11:54 AM, w00n s3n said:

only those with thousands of posts could possibly have experience, knowledge, or a valid opinion. 

Or they are just killing time - like me.

17 hours ago, Sheryl said:

BTW there are alternatives to  being "meek and accepting wrongdoing vs.  "biting back".  The former is obviously unwise unless there is very little to lose, but the latter is highly inappropriate in Thai culture and will often make matters much worse for you ... sometimes very dangerously so.

Indeed. I personally know of two farangs who had guns pointed at them following arguments with Thais. One was a visitor (a colleague) trying to buy some tourist stuff in Sukhumvit - an Italian guy (e.g. very Italian - loud and gesticulative - a bit too 'in the merchant's face', if you see what I mean.). The Thai merchant apparently had enough of this guy, pulled a gun out from under the counter ('a revolver), pointed it at the Italian guy and said 'GET OUT, GET OUT!'. The other guy, a British friend who was running a popular bar, had a run-in with a staff member. He'd been giving the guy a major dressing down for some reason - in front of the other staff (big mistake IMO) - the Thai guy left and came back with a handgun shouting and pointing it at my friend. The other Thai staff managed to cool him down and disarm him. So as you say - keep your cool, don't lose your rag. Be patient and things usually work out. Never let someone lose face in public is the general rule.

On 9/14/2025 at 11:07 PM, Yellowtail said:

Why do you consider profit greed?

Greed is when I pay for 3 tests less than 1 of the 3 costs more at Bangkok's big private hospital than 3 do in a small clinic. 

42 minutes ago, Letseng said:

Greed is when I pay for 3 tests less than 1 of the 3 costs more at Bangkok's big private hospital than 3 do in a small clinic. 

Did you not understand the question? 

 

Is it greed when a 5-star hotel charges more than a hostel? 

 

You seem to want 5-star comfort and service at hostel pricing. 

23 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Did you not understand the question? 

 

Is it greed when a 5-star hotel charges more than a hostel? 

 

You seem to want 5-star comfort and service at hostel pricing. 

I get no 5* service in either facility. Both just use a syringe & needle stuck in my arm by a lab nurse in a nurses uniform & little bandaid at the end. In fact the same brand bandaid. The only difference is that the admin process in the 5* takes much longer. Where does 5* come into it? It's greed to charge a multiple.

On 9/14/2025 at 8:05 PM, BritManToo said:

Nope,

No surgery, it's not normal for a broken collarbone, and if it was so serious that they needed to cut him open, he wouldn't have been walking out carrying a bag the next day.

 

I had clavicle (collar bone) surgery after a motorbike accident in high school over 50 years ago. I was discharged as soon as the effects of the anesthesia wore off.

 

The surgeon said that he hadn't had to operate on a clavicle in 23 years.