16 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

All this happened because the people of Gaza could not be good neighbors and live in peace. 

They had their own state from 2005,

Democratic vote for an elected government, sadly "No swords beaten into ploughshares"

An update.  The fact the flotilla's organizers have rejected the Italian government's  call to defuse the situation lends credence to claims Hamas is actually behind the flotilla. It would further Hamas' goals if some flotilla members were killed or injured, the so-called "Rachel Corrie effect."  Rachel Corrie was a 23-year-old blond-haired, blue-eyed U.S. activist who was killed in Rafah in 2003 attempting to stop an Israeli bulldozer.  Her death got far more attention in the international press than the deaths of multiple Palestinians.  However, it didn't cause the massive swing in U.S. public opinion or government policy on which Hamas had been counting.

 

Gaza flotilla rebuffs calls to stop, as Israel readies for complex interception

Italy’s calls for 47-vessel convoy to stop are ‘sabotage,’ say organizers; Navy prepares to seize hundreds of activists, as some 600 police to take part in detaining, deporting them

The large flotilla attempting to break the maritime blockade on the Gaza Strip rejected Italy’s calls to stop late Tuesday, saying it was nearing a “critical zone” and expecting Israel to take action soon to stop its advance.

Meanwhile, Israeli authorities have been readying to intercept the many vessels and take the hundreds of activists to shore to be deported or detained, in a complex operation that could potentially come to a head during Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year in Judaism, which starts Wednesday evening.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-flotilla-rebuffs-calls-to-stop-as-israel-readies-for-complex-interception/

21 minutes ago, tmd5855 said:

They had their own state from 2005,

Democratic vote for an elected government, sadly "No swords beaten into ploughshares"

 

When someone else decides who and what gets to enter and leave, is it really their own state?

 

By that definition, the Warsaw Ghetto had their own state, too.  The Nazis left it to the Polish Jews to run things inside the Ghetto.  They just controlled who and what was allowed to enter and leave.

History treats their particular uprising a lot differently.

Who cares. They are finished.

Interesting that Israel has released this info now .

I believe that Israel have had these documents in their possession for  while now . 

   Israel releases the documents just as the flotilla is approaching Israel

Israel recently stated that the flotilla will be treated like an enemy attack.

Looks like Israel are getting their reasons in for their actions early .

   The flotilla will be treated as a Hamas attack 

10 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Who cares. They are finished.

 

They may be finished, but there could be a lot of tragedy and heartache before they know they're finished. 

 

The flotilla has been co-opted by nefarious players on several sides.  Not just Hamas and the Israelis.  They're now basically pawns on a chessboard.  And disposable in a lot of powerful eyes.

 

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

And disposable in a lot of powerful eyes.

Sucks to be them. When you go to where you shouldnt go, oh well.

5 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Sucks to be them. When you go to where you shouldnt go, oh well.

 

Many of the activists are relying on white skin privilege to save them, but that doesn't always work with the Israelis.  The flotilla represents a teal threat to Israel's security, in that some vessels could be filled with weapons that could be off-loaded to smaller speed boats which have a chance of evading the Israeli Navy while it is occupied with the main flotilla.

 

This time round, some activists may get long prison sentences instead of just a slap on the wrist and deportation.  Since Greta Thunberg would probably go crazy in an Israeli prison, that's what Hamas is hoping for because of the negative light it would cast on Israel.  Her background as an environmental activist has given her a "get of jail free" card.

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

Many of the activists are relying on white skin privilege to save them, but that doesn't always work with the Israelis.

 

They should load up one of the boats with released convicts of color from US prisons to get the Dems on their side.

I don't for a minute believe these documents are genuine.

 

How convenient that Israel finds them in all this destruction.

 

The very idea is complete nonsense.

 

Israel has been caught in the lie several times and recanted their position.  This is complete disinformation propaganda.

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I don't for a minute believe these documents are genuine.

 

How convenient that Israel finds them in all this destruction.

 

The very idea is complete nonsense.

 

Israel has been caught in the lie several times and recanted their position.  This is complete disinformation propaganda.

 

   Quite likely that Hamas documents were kept in the tunnels and remained intact .

Anyone know what the flotilla crew could get charged with in an Israeli Court of law  ?

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Anyone know what the flotilla crew could get charged with in an Israeli Court of law  ?

 

 ^  Why on Earth wouldn't anyone want to downvote a question ?

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 ^  Why on Earth wouldn't anyone want to downvote a question ?

 

Could it be because they think you are being obtuse and they disagree totally with your position on Israel?

 

Just a guess mind.

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Could it be because they think you are being obtuse and they disagree totally with your position on Israel?

 

Just a guess mind.

 

  I was asking  a question .

How can asking a legitimate question be considered to be obtuse ?

There seems to be some nutcases here 

Typical Israeli propaganda as usual.

Typical fake news. This time not Truth Social though.

 

Nothing is proven actually

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/09/30/gaza-bound-flotilla-rejects-israeli-claims-of-hamas-funding

 

 

11 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

I am supporting Netanyahu, a head of government who is defending his country against a ruthless terrorist organization determined to destroy the homeland of the world's Jews.  

 

 

Now more than ever, Israel needs the support of Jews and non-Jews alike.  I would use a much more brazen image than the flag of Israel  as my avatar to declare my support, but the board rules don't allow it.

 

 

My favorite T-shirts:

       

         

 

I wear them  brazenly and proudly.

 

 

I'm on the side of history that defends the right of Jews to have a homeland and to live free of antisemitic oppression.  If that is the wrong side of history for you, there's nothing I could write that would make a difference.

 

The government of Israel and the IDF are no more evil than there counterparts in the U.S. and U.K.  During WWII, the U.S. and U.K.  bombed Germany and Japan intensely, causing hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths,  Churchill and FDR weren't evil, nor were the officers and enlisted men of the British and U.S. armed forces.  They did what they had to to win the war.  It's the same with Netanyahu and the IDF; they do what they have to defeat Hamas and sometimes this causes non-combatant deaths.

 

https://as2.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/06/68/24/07/1000_F_668240790_otIWUTZrH3RkwKffZWAX1dqRlJ91V65Q.jpg

22 hours ago, johng said:

Just let the symbolic humanitarian aid in

will the Spanish and Italian warships help this time ? 

 

   Italian warships have stated they will stop escorting the flotilla and turn back once they get to 150 miles off the cost of Israel 

 

"Italy’s navy will stop accompanying the Gaza aid flotilla 150 miles from shore, warning activists to turn back. Israel has vowed to block the convoy from reaching Gaza."

 

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-869130

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1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

Typical Israeli propaganda as usual.

Typical fake news. This time not Truth Social though.

 

Nothing is proven actually

 

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/09/30/gaza-bound-flotilla-rejects-israeli-claims-of-hamas-funding

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, JimCM said:

 

And still some here believe everything Israel says.

 

"I believe almost everything the Israeli government claims"

5 hours ago, tmd5855 said:

They had their own state from 2005,

Democratic vote for an elected government, sadly "No swords beaten into ploughshares"

Their main motivation is hating Israel rather than working towards creating a better society for everyone.

I didn't see it ... it didn't happen.

I didn't hear it ... it wasn't said.

... nuff said 

11 hours ago, stevenl said:

And still some here believe everything Israel says.

 

"I believe almost everything the Israeli government claims"

 

Back in the 1930s and 1940s, many groups and governments said the Jews were lying about the oppression they faced, especially when they revealed the existence of concentration camps.  The tendency to disbelieve and blame the Jews hasn't changed that much in the past 2,000, not to mention 100, years.

 

I will always believe what the Israeli government says over antisemites.

 

<removed>

 

On 9/30/2025 at 7:01 PM, Evil Penevil said:

This doesn't come as much of a surprise.  Many who are supposedly "supporting Palestinians but not Hamas" are actually dupes.  They are providing support to Hamas, whether they know it or not.

 

Captured documents reveal Hamas organized, funded Gaza flotilla

Documents found in Gaza and released by Israel’s Foreign Ministry on Tuesday traced direct Hamas involvement in organizing and financing a “close-knit” flotilla seeking to break the Israeli blockade of the Strip.

“This confirms that key assets of the flotilla are effectively owned and controlled by Hamas,” the Foreign Ministry said. “They clarify the chain of command and financial support behind these operations, which have long been presented under civilian pretense.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/captured-documents-reveal-hamas-organized-funded-gaza-flotilla/ar-AA1NzoDp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W230&cvid=65ebbac8c38d42cfac00c1c5f940a34f&ei=19

 

And  the direct link to the official Web site of Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

Official Hamas documents prove Hamas’s direct involvement in the Gaza flotilla

EXPOSED: Official Hamas documents found in the Gaza Strip - now revealed for the first time - prove Hamas’s direct involvement in the funding and execution of the “Sumud” flotilla to Gaza

The PCPA (Palestinian Conference for Palestinians Abroad) was established in 2018 and functions as Hamas’ representative body abroad, operating de facto as Hamas’ embassies. The organization operates under the pretense of civilian cover and is responsible, on behalf of Hamas, for mobilizing actions against Israel, including violent demonstrations, marches against Israel, and demonstration and provocation flotillas.    https://www.gov.il/en/pages/official-hamas-documents-prove-hamas-s-direct-involvement-in-the-gaza-flotilla-30-sep-2025

 

Greta doesn't keep very good company.  From the  Ministry's Web site:

You mean the picture of former Brit PM George Galloway who has publicly stated that its himself in this picture?
Nice try.

 

Sources: 
https://www.siasat.com/israel-mixes-up-uk-former-mps-image-in-gaza-flotilla-report-3278432/

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/george-galloway-responds-israel-publishes-211918323.html?guccounter=1

Post removed 

 

@JimCM

 

 

 

 

 

9. You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages. You will respect other members and post in a civil manner. Personal attacks, insults or hate speech posted on the forum or sent by private message are not allowed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

Back in the 1930s and 1940s, many groups and governments said the Jews were lying about the oppression they faced, especially when they revealed the existence of concentration camps. 

Which governments said this? 
Link please, as per forum rules.

1 hour ago, connda said:

former Brit PM George Galloway 

When was that ?????

 

 

2 hours ago, JimCM said:

Which governments said this? 
Link please, as per forum rules.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, Jewish claims about persecution were disbelieved by governments, organizations and the general public in the 1930s and 1940s.  It's an undisputable fact many governments refused to accept Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany.   Below are just a few examples, there are many others.

 

The most notable example was the conference on the International Refugee Problem in Evian, France, in July, 1938.  "Representatives from 32 nations*, plus 39 private organizations, gathered for 8 days of speeches, meetings, and grand displays of good will. More than 200 journalists covered the event. It was a big deal. "
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/refugee-crises-and-the-sad-legacy-of-the-1938-evian-conference/

 

However, nothing came of it.  Only one country- tiny Dominican Republic- agreed to take a substantial number of Jewish refugees.  Many excuses were given by the other nations (https://www.facinghistory.org/resource-library/evian-conference) but the underlying reason was disbelief the Jews faced real danger.

 

Of course, if you prefer to think these nations were convinced Jews faced lethal danger but refused to admit them anyway, that would be the rawest form of antisemitism.  So which was it?  These 31 nations didn't believe the Jews faced elimination at the hands of the Nazis or they did believe but didn't care?

 

"Even efforts by some Americans to rescue children failed. The Wagner-Rogers bill, an effort to admit 20,000 endangered Jewish refugee children, was not supported by the Senate in 1939 and 1940. Widespread racial prejudices among Americans—including antisemitic attitudes held by US State Department officials—played a part in the failure to admit more refugees."

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-evian-conference

 

"In April 1943, Britain and the USA held the "Bermuda Conference" to deal with the issue of wartime refugees, following pressure by Jewish lobbies, but this too proved unproductive. The Americans refused to consider changing their strict immigration quotas to let in more Jewish refugees, while the British refused to consider Palestine as a safe haven for Jewish refugees, and thus nothing was accomplished."  https://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/this-month/july/1938.html

 

The (im)possibilities of escaping. Jewish emigration 1933 – 1942

"[B]ecause of all the formalities, the lack of international cooperation, and ultimately the war itself, many German Jews were not able to reach a safe place. A large majority were forced to remain in Europe, with everything that that entailed."

https://www.annefrank.org/en/anne-frank/go-in-depth/impossibilities-escaping-1933-1942/

 

The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies

In a long tradition of “persecuting the refugee,” the State Department and FDR claimed that Jewish immigrants could threaten national security 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/

 

Why Was America So Reluctant to Take Action on the Holocaust?

A new Ken Burns documentary examines the U.S.’ complex, often shameful response to the rise of Nazism and the plight of Jewish refugees

 

Paula, Sam and Sol Messinger aboard the M.S. St. Louis in May 1939. The U.S. denied the ship entry, forcing its 937 passengers

to return to Europe. More than a quarter of these refugees were later killed in the Holocaust. 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-was-america-so-reluctant-to-take-action-on-the-holocaust-180980779/?itm_source=related-content&itm_medium=parsely-api

 

Beyond Belief: The American Press And The Coming Of The Holocaust, 1933- 1945

This most complete study to date of American press reactions to the Holocaust sets forth in abundant detail how the press nationwide played down or even ignored reports of Jewish persecutions over a twelve-year period.

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-American-Coming-Holocaust/dp/0029191610/ref=sims_dp_d_dex_ai_rank_model_1_d_v1_d_sccl_1_4/131-6610344-9112328?psc=1

 

 

Some Were Neighbors: Choice, Human Behavior, and the Holocaust

How was the Holocaust possible? ... The Nazis had help from millions of ordinary people across Europe.

Some Europeans acted out of hatred for Jews, but many others weighed various pressures and incentives in responding to the plight of the victims. Amid war and upheaval, a range of motivations—fear, greed, opportunity—led people to make choices that often had deadly impact.  https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/some-were-neighbors/home/exhibition-intro

The above Web site has links to many, many examples of people who aided the Nazis because they didn't believe Jews faced real danger.

 

The Abandonment of the Jews: America and the Holocaust 1941-1945 

"In this landmark work, David S. Wyman argues that a substantial commitment to rescue European Jews on the part of the United States almost certainly could have saved several hundred thousand of the Nazis' victims. Widely considered to be the definitive book on the subject ..."

https://www.amazon.com/Abandonment-Jews-America-Holocaust-1941-1945/dp/159558174X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&sr=1-1

 

*The 32 countries attending the Evian Conference were  the United States, Great Britain, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Denmark, Argentina, Brazil,  Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

Soon the Israel propaganda will claim that the UN is funded by Hamas ??