37 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Oh so you've decided memes are not for low IQs after all? Noted.

 

When one plays in the sewer, it's hard to avoid the muck.
 

Plus for some particular folks, pictures seem easier to understand than words.

 

But that's my meme limit for the day, perhaps the week!  

 

 

2 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I'll tell you what the number one criterion should be for studies: not being paid for by those who have a financial interest in reaching a specific outcome.

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2018/06/28/the-biopharmaceutical-industry-provides-75-of-the-fdas-drug-review-budget-is-this-a-problem/?sh=687d6a9e49ec

 

 

 

You all keep going on about the CDC and the FDA as if they are the sole arbitrator of everything science yet conveniently forget that this is also the view of every single respectable healthcare provider in the western world. 
The NHS (a non-profit healthcare system paid by the populace through taxes) is 100% behind the proven science of vaccines. They have no other motive than the wellbeing of people and have wholeheartedly endorsed vaccines. 
Perhaps “big pharma” can influence the USA (because money talks so much there), but by the same arbitrary definition, they still cannot influence those that provide healthcare for free  

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

So, other than funding you don't have any idea what makes one study better than another?

 

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

he papers referred to in the context of this discussion are not studies, they are basic marketing assets used under the age-old principle of creating demand to generate product sales.

I see you have a good understanding of deflection.

You provided a data point regarding unvaccinated children.  Why is it of no scientific use?

Why would you present it?  Do you know how science studies anything, particularly in the medical field?

6 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

 

I see you have a good understanding of deflection.

You provided a data point regarding unvaccinated children.  Why is it of no scientific use?

Why would you present it?  Do you know how science studies anything, particularly in the medical field?

 

I'll pass on the lecture.

 

I provided an empirical observation which, though far from flawless, still has a lot more validity than abstract rationalisations paid for by a cartel whose one and only specification is that the desired result must be reached and published.

20 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You all keep going on about the CDC and the FDA as if they are the sole arbitrator of everything science yet conveniently forget that this is also the view of every single respectable healthcare provider in the western world. 
The NHS (a non-profit healthcare system paid by the populace through taxes) is 100% behind the proven science of vaccines. They have no other motive than the wellbeing of people and have wholeheartedly endorsed vaccines. 
Perhaps “big pharma” can influence the USA (because money talks so much there), but by the same arbitrary definition, they still cannot influence those that provide healthcare for free  

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/08/revealed-pharma-giants-pour-millions-of-pounds-into-nhs-to-boost-drug-sales

29 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/08/revealed-pharma-giants-pour-millions-of-pounds-into-nhs-to-boost-drug-sales

Nice try but no cigar.
correlation doesn’t mean causation. But that’s how you guys work so I get used to it.
Yanks maybe good at selling c0ck pills or opioids (world champions there) but the UKs view on vaccines has not changed for 100 years. 

1796: Edward Jenner developed the first vaccine against smallpox using cowpox. 

1940s: Mass vaccination programs began for diphtheria, which was a significant public health issue, leading to a dramatic reduction in cases. 

1950s-1960s: Poliomyelitis (polio) vaccines were introduced, including the oral polio vaccine in 1961, which helped control devastating epidemics. 

1961: Tetanus vaccine introduced. 

1962: Live oral polio vaccine introduced. 

1968: Measles vaccine introduced. 

1970: Rubella vaccine introduced. 

1992: Hib conjugate vaccine introduced. 

2006: Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV7) introduced. 

2004: A pentavalent (5-in-1) infant vaccine was introduced to protect against DTaP, Hib, and polio. 

2023: COVID-19 vaccine added to the national immunization schedule. 

 

Crackpot anti-vaxxers with their “I’m 70 and never had a vaccine in my life and I’m as healthy as a (cough,cough) horse and my next door neighbours second cousin is as fit as a fiddle” combined with “I did ma research on internet thingy” nonsense is what’s causing ALL the problems. 

And what does this academic / new drug development policy debate have to do with the OP subject issue of parents who deny their children life-saving, long-established child vaccines that for the most part have been widely and safely used for many years / decades?

 

Absolutely nothing!  But it is a typical refrain of the anti-vaxer / don't trust anything from government or modern medicine world.

 

------------------------------------------

 

Key Developments in Vaccine History (selected)

 

Diphtheria & Tetanus (Late 1800s/Early 1900s): Vaccines for diphtheria and tetanus became available in this period. 

 

Pertussis (Whooping Cough) (Early 1900s): This vaccine was also introduced in the early 20th century. 

 

Polio (1950s-1960s): Jonas Salk's inactivated polio vaccine was introduced in 1955, followed by Albert Sabin's oral polio vaccine in 1960. 

 

Measles, Mumps, & Rubella (1960s): Vaccines for these illnesses became available during this time. 

 

More Recent Vaccines (Late 20th Century Onward):

Hepatitis B: Introduced in the late 1980s. 

 

Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib): A vaccine for Hib was added to the schedule in the late 1980s or early 1990s. 

 

Chickenpox (Varicella): Became available in 1996. 

 

Rotavirus: Added to the schedule in the late 1990s and early 2000s. 

 

Hepatitis A: Introduced around 2000. 

 

Pneumococcal: Introduced in 2001. 

 

35 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

 

I provided an empirical observation which, though far from flawless, still has a lot more validity than abstract rationalisations paid for by a cartel whose one and only specification is that the desired result must be reached and published.

And by the way do you understand what “empirical means? 
Definition - “based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.”

 

Pay attention to the last 6 words. 
 

But yeah, in the US they are are a cartel and Americans allowed health to be for profit. Not a good choice.
 

Just don’t peg everyone the same. Let those that are NOT in it for profit educate you if it makes you feel better. Theres plenty out there. 
 

9 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Nice try but no cigar.
correlation doesn’t mean causation. But that’s how you guys work so I get used to it.
Yanks maybe good at selling c0ck pills or opioids (world champions there) but the UKs view on vaccines has not changed for 100 years. 

1796: Edward Jenner developed the first vaccine against smallpox using cowpox. 

1940s: Mass vaccination programs began for diphtheria, which was a significant public health issue, leading to a dramatic reduction in cases. 

1950s-1960s: Poliomyelitis (polio) vaccines were introduced, including the oral polio vaccine in 1961, which helped control devastating epidemics. 

1961: Tetanus vaccine introduced. 

1962: Live oral polio vaccine introduced. 

1968: Measles vaccine introduced. 

1970: Rubella vaccine introduced. 

1992: Hib conjugate vaccine introduced. 

2006: Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV7) introduced. 

2004: A pentavalent (5-in-1) infant vaccine was introduced to protect against DTaP, Hib, and polio. 

2023: COVID-19 vaccine added to the national immunization schedule. 

 

Crackpot anti-vaxxers with their “I’m 70 and never had a vaccine in my life and I’m as healthy as a (cough,cough) horse and my next door neighbours second cousin is as fit as a fiddle” combined with “I did ma research on internet thingy” nonsense is what’s causing ALL the problems. 

 

By all means persist in your belief if that is what you so choose.

 

It does not alter reality as it exists in any way.

 

 

On 10/7/2025 at 9:27 PM, johnnybangkok said:

And by the way do you understand what “empirical means? 
Definition - “based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.”

 

Pay attention to the last 6 words. 
 

But yeah, in the US they are are a cartel and Americans allowed health to be for profit. Not a good choice.
 

Just don’t peg everyone the same. Let those that are NOT in it for profit educate you if it makes you feel better. Theres plenty out there. 
 

 

I understand what 'empirical' means, and could have given you the definition spontaneously in a live context, rather than copy/paste it as you just did.

4 minutes ago, Bacon1 said:

Please provide evidence that the CDC  states:

 

"measles is hard to detect"

Certainly Sir.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSfBW2aZwQ

 

Also:

 

https://odysee.com/@hipsterious:3/Dr-Tom-Cowan---Q-A-Webinar-from-April-2nd,-2025:b watch from 14.00 & 28.00

6 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Certainly Sir.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSfBW2aZwQ

 

 

Some guy named Floyd Reynolds who has 68 subscribers on a YT channel, and calls vaccines "poison."

 

You're off to a hot start!

 

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Some guy named Floyd Reynolds who has 68 subscribers on a YT channel, and calls vaccines "poison."

 

You're off to a hot start!

 

Want to be the 69th John Sir?

And then predictably, quickly go even further downhill into more nonsense peddlers...

 

Quote

https://odysee.com/@hipsterious:3/Dr-Tom-Cowan---Q-A-Webinar-from-April-2nd,-2025:b watch from 14.00 & 28.00

 

So who is "Dr. Tom Cowan"?  Well, NOT a "doctor" anymore!!!

 

"Thomas Samuel Cowan is an American practitioner of alternative medicine, author, conspiracy theorist and former medical doctor. He relinquished his medical license in 2020.

 

Cowan was disciplined and put on probation by the Medical Board of California in 2017 after he prescribed medication for breast cancer without informing the patient that it had not been approved by medical authorities, and without reviewing her medical file.^[2] The probation period was due to end in 2022, but he renounced his medical license in December 2020, to become an unregulated "health coach". He left California and continues selling supplements through a website.

 

Cowan has argued against the widely accepted scientific view that pathogens cause a variety of diseases.[9] He promoted conspiracy theories about the COVID-19 pandemic, claiming 5G wireless communications are responsible for making people sick.[3][5][10][11][7]

A video of Cowan's claims about COVID and 5G communication, made at an anti-vaccination conference which also featured Andrew Wakefield, quickly gained a widespread audience when it was promoted by multiple Facebook accounts."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cowan_(alternative_medicine_practitioner)

 

The typical kind of quacks and assorted reprehensible sources you have a penchant for presenting here.

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 conspiracy theorist

[Shudder]

 

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

claiming 5G wireless communications are responsible for making people sick

Definitely turn off your Wi-Fi at night, John, you'll feel all the better for it.

3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

[Shudder]

 

Definitely turn off your Wi-Fi at night, John, you'll feel all the better for it.

 

Just focus on the part about quack [now former] medical doctor who was suspended and ultimately lost his medical license.... and you'll feel better too!

 

This guy is obsessed. There is a HUGE difference between established, proven vaccines and ones that are rushed through. It cannot be done; the smoke and mirrors they chuck up is mostly tat. A guy that pedals pharmaceuticals that has absolutely no knowledge of nutrition (or how we evolved) is not starting from a good place. Do not trust them.

11 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

If you live to 18 likely your body is strong and no drugs all the better.

 

If you live to 88, likely your body is even stronger.

So what?

 

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Just focus on the part about quack [now former] medical doctor who was suspended and ultimately lost his medical license.... and you'll feel better too!

 

 

Of course he was punished by the cartel for not abiding by their rules.

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Meanwhile,

You're giving them autism, aids, diabetes with multiple vaccinations.

 

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yes, governments will debunk anyone going against their narrative.

Yet here I am age 70 surviving with few vaccinations.

 

 

I’ve long accepted that anti-vaxxers dwell in realms of stupidity most of us can scarcely imagine - but you, somehow, keep finding new depths.

 

“Vaccinations give kids AIDS”? Really? That’s not just stupid - that’s crossing the event horizon of idiocy, where reason collapses under the gravitational pull of your own ignorance.

 

Then we come to your tired little anecdote - you “survived” after a few vaccinations. Fascinating. But your implication, that survival in spite of the recommended schedule proves vaccines are useless, is a spectacular leap into the singularity itself. It’s not logic - it’s anecdote, and the plural of anecdote isn’t data. It’s confirmation bias compacted so tightly it’s forming its own black hole of delusion.

 

I’m sorry to single you out (again), but when I scrolled past your “AIDS from vaccines” comment, I stopped cold. There’s stupidity - and then there’s whatever quantum-level absurdity you’ve managed to collapse into....

 

This thread, more than others is truly astonishing...     

There was a time when anyone with a brain believed in the science....

When facts weren’t optional.... When knowledge wasn’t something you “felt” -  it was something you knew.

 

But then the age of ignorance put on a Wi-Fi signal and called itself enlightenment.

Every fool with a Facebook account became a self-certified epidemiologist.

 

They started lying. Little lies, big lies, stupid lies - misinformation for clicks.

Lies that told people they were “free thinkers” for rejecting reality,  while they blindly followed whatever nonsense confirmed their fear.

 

The doctors were saving lives, while the internet prophets were saving clicks.

 

And then came the pandemic. The world asked for courage, compassion, and common sense.

But too many answered with hashtags, conspiracy threads, and an allergy to facts.

 

They screamed “Do your own research”....  which really meant “I watched a video once”..

 

They talked about “sheep” while lining up behind whichever grifter bleated loudest.

 

And now, when science tells them the sun will rise tomorrow, they demand proof...
... and when they see the sunrise, they call it CGI.

 

 

That’s where we are now. A society where ignorance struts as wisdom, and arrogance wears the mask of truth.

 

But here’s the difference:
science doesn’t need you to believe in it for it to be true.

 

Gravity works. Viruses spread. Vaccines save lives.

 

You can reject reality all you like - but reality doesn’t negotiate.

 

And once reason is gone… once you cross that event horizon of stupidity - there’s no coming back - and some of you are well past that line... 

 

... And why ???...  Because yes, mistakes happen. Because yes, authority figures have lied at times...
But that doesn’t make everything a lie....

 

That’s not how science works... Science admits errors, corrects them, and moves forward.

 

Lies by officials do not invalidate the work of scientists... Yet the self-styled “free thinkers” ignore this.

 

They cling to every falsehood, twist every misstep, and in doing so, they find themselves trapped -
spinning endlessly beyond the event horizon of stupidity....

 

You anti‑vaxxers are marooned there now - orbiting your own delusions, too far gone to see the world as it is.

 

You’ve nailed your internet handle to your “cause”, too proud, too petty, too poisoned by ego to turn back.

 

You're lost in your own spiral, chasing your own tail through a labyrinth of lies, clawing at ghosts of falsehoods to justify the years you’ve squandered worshipping fear and calling it freedom.

 

You hunt “misinformation” while feasting on it. You mistake obsession for research, paranoia for insight, and every correction as proof of conspiracy. You’ve traded reason for validation, science for superstition, and you clutch your ignorance like a flag.

 

Its truly sad to see such ignorance on display.

 

 

5 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

I'll pass on the lecture.

 

I simply asked you some questions regarding your understanding of how science research works.  How is that a lecture?  Or are you making sure your deflection skills don't get rusty?

2 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I simply asked you some questions regarding your understanding of how science research works.  

 

Answered several times. My understanding of how science research works in the 21st century is that it is corrupt to the core, with ample evidence to support it.

 

Your attempts to move the debate on a technical ground – with the obvious intent to gain the upper hand rhetorically whilst ignoring the substance of the issue – are not going to work.

7 hours ago, Stiddle Mump said:

Certainly Sir.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSfBW2aZwQ

 

Also:

 

https://odysee.com/@hipsterious:3/Dr-Tom-Cowan---Q-A-Webinar-from-April-2nd,-2025:b watch from 14.00 & 28.00

 

That's not from the CDC.

11 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The papers referred to in the context of this discussion are not studies, they are basic marketing assets used under the age-old principle of creating demand to generate product sales.

 

An industry financially dependent on me being sick is not going to give me relevant or helpful information regarding my health.

 

 

https://archive.ph/EM5wh

 

Well said!  An industry financially dependent on me being sick is not going to give me relevant or helpful information regarding my health.

 

And the very same is true for the standard way in which vaccine-trials are conducted to rig the outcomes.  That despicable practice is addressed in full detail in this link to the testimony by Toby Rogers during the recent 9 September Senate hearing on the subject. 

> https://tobyrogers.substack.com/p/clip-3-from-the-sept-9-senate-hearing

The thread containing the clip and transcript addressing his testimony is a must-read and can also be accessed here:.  

https://aseannow.com/topic/1375245-the-newspeak-in-vaccine-trials-is-meant-to-gaslight-you

 

12 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You all keep going on about the CDC and the FDA as if they are the sole arbitrator of everything science yet conveniently forget that this is also the view of every single respectable healthcare provider in the western world. 
The NHS (a non-profit healthcare system paid by the populace through taxes) is 100% behind the proven science of vaccines. They have no other motive than the wellbeing of people and have wholeheartedly endorsed vaccines. 
Perhaps “big pharma” can influence the USA (because money talks so much there), but by the same arbitrary definition, they still cannot influence those that provide healthcare for free  

 

Okay, let's take a look at how satisfied the UK populace is with the services provided by the NHS, after all it is the public that are paying for it via taxation.  

Here’s a summary of findings from reliable surveys (especially the British Social Attitudes survey, run by NatCen, Nuffield, and King’s Fund) as of 2024–2025:

---

Key Findings

1. Overall satisfaction is at a record low

   • In 2024, only 21% of British adults said they were “very” or “quite” satisfied with the way the NHS runs. BBC+3Nuffield Trust+3The King's Fund+3

   • Dissatisfaction is high: 59% said they were “very” or “quite” dissatisfied. Nuffield Trust+2The King's Fund+2

2. Sharp decline since before the COVID‑19 pandemic

   • Satisfaction has fallen by around 39 percentage points since 2019. Nuffield Trust+2Nuffield Trust+2

   • In 2019, satisfaction was about 60%, and in 2010 it was even higher (~70%). BBC+3The Guardian+3The King's Fund+3

3. Which services are viewed worst

   • A&E (Accident & Emergency) services: satisfaction fell to ~19% in 2024. Nuffield Trust+2Nuffield Trust+2

   • GP (General Practitioner) services: only about 31% satisfied. Nuffield Trust+1

   • Dental care: satisfaction has also collapsed — down to around 20%. The Guardian+1

4. Demographic splits

   • Older people (65+) generally have slightly higher satisfaction (~27%) compared to younger people (<65), where satisfaction is lower (~19%). Nuffield Trust+1

   • Political affiliation: e.g. Reform Party supporters are less likely to be satisfied (around 13%), while Conservative and Labour supporters are somewhat higher though still low. Nuffield Trust

   • Geographic variation: Wales shows higher dissatisfaction than many parts of England. Nuffield Trust

   • ...

healthwatch.co.uk+1

 

Mod's note: shortened per forum fair use quoting policy, and oversized font corrected.

 

6 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

There was a time when anyone with a brain believed in the science....

But then the governments started mixing propaganda with science, and only the faithfull kept believing.

5 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I simply asked you some questions regarding your understanding of how science research works.  How is that a lecture?  Or are you making sure your deflection skills don't get rusty?

How science works (today),

The government pays a group of scientists to confirm their political new world order agenda.

Big pharma

Climate change

Etc.

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

“Vaccinations give kids AIDS”? Really? That’s not just stupid - that’s crossing the event horizon of idiocy, where reason collapses under the gravitational pull of your own ignorance.

Multiple vaccinations at a young age stops the bodies immune system from developing properly, leaving the victims susceptible to many problems that unvaccinated kids would never have. Including Aids, diabetes, lupus, crohn's,  MS all a result of multiple vaccinations at a young age.

 

It's not the content of the vaccines doing the damage, it's the age of the victims.