3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

This highlights your lack of understanding. Currency is not meant as an investment in itself. Currency is used to purchase investments. Bitcoin is nothing more than an investment and owners hope and pray it continues to appreciate. 

Its clear youve put in no research and are telling me my lack of understanding. Its possible now to pay for things with bitcoin. When people dont want fiat anymore, businesses will only accept bitcoin as payment for services. I dont see a scenario that doesnt lead to this is the future

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

All value is achieved by consensus.

 

Whether it’s FIAT or crypto.

 

Bitcoin has value because a hundred million people agree it has.

 

What is your dollar backed by? It’s not backed by gold or anything any more.  It has value by consensus.

The dollar is backed by the US government. Crypto has no backing, its an investment. Care to explain what you claim that value is assigned by consensus?

1 minute ago, angryguy said:

Its clear youve put in no research and are telling me my lack of understanding. Its possible now to pay for things with bitcoin. When people dont want fiat anymore, businesses will only accept bitcoin as payment for services. I dont see a scenario that doesnt lead to this is the future

Again your comments show your lack of real understanding of currency and how they work. I can barter and pay for things but that doesn't mean what I have to trade is a currency and it has no backing other than if you want or need what I have. Only some institutions and stores take bitcoin so its far from universal.

The dollar used to be backed by gold, now it’s backed by the dollar. They promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one dollar. See the problem?

 

We accept its value by consensus.  Bitcoins value is set by consensus, actually there are markets called exchanges where that consensus is set on market demand.

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

We accept its value by consensus.  Bitcoins value is set by consensus, actually there are markets called exchanges where that consensus is set on market demand.

 

keep your day job, intellectualism isn't for you.

 

 

1 hour ago, angryguy said:

Bitcoin was never anonymous every transaction ever made is public knowledge. There is no negative to it being mentioned by governments and being traded in the stock market.

 

your argument is that bitcoin has no inherent value right? The fact its created by energy doesnt mean anything? It takes them no work to print a dollar, so the dollar is actually whats inherently worthless

Your gonna have to help me here, how does being created by energy mean it has value ?

1 minute ago, Bangkokhatter said:

Your gonna have to help me here, how does being created by energy mean it has value ?

Because theoretically energy is scarce, scarcity is what gives value to earths resources and why we should prefer a scarce money to an unlimited supply of money

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The dollar used to be backed by gold, now it’s backed by the dollar. They promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of one dollar. See the problem?

 

We accept its value by consensus.  Bitcoins value is set by consensus, actually there are markets called exchanges where that consensus is set on market demand.

Its back by the US government however shallow you may deem that to be. 

 

Bitcoin isn't backed by anything other than a brief it will continue to used and increase is value. Its an investment. Your point about exchanges makes that clear. 

11 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Again your comments show your lack of real understanding of currency and how they work. I can barter and pay for things but that doesn't mean what I have to trade is a currency and it has no backing other than if you want or need what I have. Only some institutions and stores take bitcoin so its far from universal.

Again its like the other guy told you. Youll find out the hard way i guess

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Again its like the other guy told you. Youll find out the hard way i guess

I'm comfortable in my understanding and investments. You on the other hand are comfortable with an investment you are making but your trying to explain it is what's off base. 

2 minutes ago, Dan O said:

I'm comfortable in my understanding and investments. You on the other hand are comfortable with an investment you are making but your trying to explain it is what's off base. 

It may or may not become the world currency. However if you had a good understanding then you wouldnt be feeling comfortable with your investments as you only see them for what they are priced in dollars. What i see is a future where the dollar has no value, so not having bitcoin is riskier than anything

42 minutes ago, angryguy said:

It may or may not become the world currency. However if you had a good understanding then you wouldnt be feeling comfortable with your investments as you only see them for what they are priced in dollars. What i see is a future where the dollar has no value, so not having bitcoin is riskier than anything

What you said original is what we are discussing. The dollar or any other currency may or may not be available in the future but we aren't there yet. If currencies fail in the long term you will have a much bigger problem across the board than you think. Bitcoin isn't gonna save you.

 

My view on investments is healthy and not in question. The question was your original  claims

1 minute ago, Dan O said:

What you said original is what we are discussing. The dollar or any other currency may or may not be available in the future but we aren't there yet. If currencies fail in the long term you will have a much bigger problem across the board than you think. Bitcoin isn't gonna save you.

 

My view on investments is healthy and not in question. The question was your original  claims

Fiat currencies will fail in the long term and bitcoin will save the people who have it

1 minute ago, angryguy said:

Fiat currencies will fail in the long term and bitcoin will save the people who have it

Another case of a right winger who believes that invoking the future is some kind of valid argument and not the recourse of those who are incapable of formulating valid arguments.

1 minute ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Another case of a right winger who believes that invoking the future is some kind of valid argument and not the recourse of those who are incapable of formulating valid arguments.

Your posts sound like they come from some sort of bot used to generate site traffic

11 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Your posts sound like they come from some sort of bot used to generate site traffic

Even if that was the case, the alleged bot has pointed out repeatedly the obvious flaws in your reasoning. Which makes me suspect that you are an earlier and inferior version of a bot. Maybe I should call you Bot 1.0?

2 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Even if that was the case, the alleged bot has pointed out repeatedly the obvious flaws in your reasoning. Which makes me suspect that you are an earlier and inferior version of a bot. Maybe I should call you Bot 1.0?

You made an irrelevant post about gold and my graph invalidates basically all your points in the thread. You can claim victory for winning a debate but that doesnt mean your optics are true

6 minutes ago, angryguy said:

You made an irrelevant post about gold and my graph invalidates basically all your points in the thread. You can claim victory for winning a debate but that doesnt mean your optics are true

It may be irrelevant to your comments about the relation of ihflation to wealth, but that has nothing to do about either its irrelevance to the topic or to the false point you raised about the relation of unit of currency inflation to wealth.

1 hour ago, angryguy said:

Fiat currencies will fail in the long term and bitcoin will save the people who have it

You are mixing issues. 

 

First you talk about bitcoin as a replacement currency then you switch to it being your investment vehicle.

 

then you claim it'll replace US $ when they fail. The world will fail at some point, so what?  If the US currency fails you will have a much bigger issue world wide and bitcoin isn't gonna save you.

 

If you want it as an investment that's your choice but learn what your talking about first before you try to convince others. 

Just now, Dan O said:

You are mixing issues. 

 

First you talk about bitcoin as a replacement currency then you switch to it being your investment vehicle.

 

then you claim it'll replace US $ when they fail. The world will fail at some point, so what?  If the US currency fails you will have a much bigger issue world wide and bitcoin isn't gonna save you.

 

If you want it as an investment that's your choice but learn what your talking about first before you try to convince others. 

This thread is to help people. There is no specified amount im telling people to buy. Contrary to false belief you do not need to buy one bitcoin, you can buy 1 dollar of bitcoin

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

This thread is to help people. There is no specified amount im telling people to buy. Contrary to false belief you do not need to buy one bitcoin, you can buy 1 dollar of bitcoin

You are all over the place with this thread. There's no use continuing the discussion with you as you appear lost in the bitcoin universe. 

 

No one should take any investment advice from anyone else on social media. Do the research and find the correct information to make an informed decision.

 

You have a great day 

1 minute ago, Dan O said:

You are all over the place with this thread. There's no use continuing the discussion with you as you appear lost in the bitcoin universe. 

 

No one should take any investment advice from anyone else on social media. Do the research and find the correct information to make an informed decision.

 

You have a great day 

Take your own advice and do the research. Its obvious you havent done any

5 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Take your own advice and do the research. Its obvious you havent done any

Your comments betray your claims.

 

As for me I'm fine and so are my investments. The fiat cash in my wallet will do well next week when I travel also.

1 minute ago, Dan O said:

Your comments betray your claims.

 

As for me I'm fine and so are my investments. The fiat cash in my wallet will do well next week when I travel also.

This thread wasnt really meant for you so i dont know why you stick around. You will eventually buy bitcoin at the price you deserve same as everyone

3 hours ago, angryguy said:

Because theoretically energy is scarce, scarcity is what gives value to earths resources and why we should prefer a scarce money to an unlimited supply of money

 I don’t think energy use alone makes something valuable. Plenty of things take effort or resources to create but aren’t worth much if people don’t want them.

 

For Bitcoin, the energy cost is part of its security model, but its perceived value comes from market trust and limited supply—not the electricity burned. If that trust disappeared tomorrow, all that energy wouldn’t matter.

3 hours ago, angryguy said:

Its clear youve put in no research and are telling me my lack of understanding. Its possible now to pay for things with bitcoin. When people dont want fiat anymore, businesses will only accept bitcoin as payment for services. I dont see a scenario that doesnt lead to this is the future

Your lack of understanding is about relationship of units of currency vis a vis inflation to personal wealth. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin. You have kept on citing the future as evidence to bolster your claim. That's just sad.

On 10/27/2025 at 10:47 PM, angryguy said:

When fiat cant buy anything what will governments be able to do about it. The harder they resist the change to a new system the more they will hurt themselves

 

Quite a lot actually. Government can do almost whatever it wants, if they say Jeans have to be priced in pineapples you'll see a lot of Levis advertised priced in pineapples. Government can step in at any time to mandate how something has to be priced.

 

Remember they one day simply decided to make it lillegal to hold Gold!!

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

When fiat cant buy anything what will governments be able to do about it. The harder they resist the change to a new system the more they will hurt themselves

They are already making plans. Cash is untraceable, and they don't like that. But crypto, they can follow everywhere on the blockchain.

 

Starting January 1, 2026, the Crypto-Asset Reporting Framework (CARF) will be implemented, requiring significant changes in how cryptocurrency transactions are reported globally. This framework aims to enhance tax compliance and reduce tax evasion related to digital assets.

 

 

 

On 10/28/2025 at 3:34 PM, Conno said:

Listen to a Jack Mallers podcast for an in depth insight. He explains it way better than I can. It's not just related to the electrical energy expended in mining the coins or the oil or gas or coal or nuclear or renewables used to generate that electricity, but more importantly it is related to the preservation and the storing of human time and energy. It comes down to the very basic fundamentals of what money actually is. If you are wanting a commodity to link Bitcoin to directly it's that, human time and energy. Another reason Bitcoin is so successful and will continue to be going forward is because of it's radical nature which the casual observer just won't get. It may not be perfect, but it is the best form of money so far invented by humanity. 

 

Watch a Jack Mallers podcast if I don't make sense, a 31 year old billionaire who looks 12.  

I would certainly not want to be the guy that has to figure out the value of Bitcoin based on Energy and Human Effort. I'd rather dwell on things like "what was there before the Big Bang". Much less challenging.

The "sarcity" of Bitcoin is praised here a lot.

 

Ever since Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan, we know that Central Banks can make a currency "scarce" or flood the markets with currency. Depending on a given economic situation.

 

This is called control of MONEY SUPPLY. A magic discovery only made about 60 years ago.

 

Example: If the Fed should decide to make the Dollar "scarcer" (reducing "liquidity" within the monetary system), investments including Bitcoin will lose value against the Dollar. Not to forget: The current Bull Market of basically everything is partially owed to the fact that the global financial system is still "awash" with liquidity.

 

AND: The value of a Bitcoin is still measured by a Fiat currency called the US$. (funny, isen't it?) Should the day come when the value of Bitcoin is determined by how many sacks of potatoes I will receive for 1 Bitcoin, I will become a believer. Not before.