1 minute ago, IsmeUno said:

It meant that after I clicked Submit Reply, they button went grey, but it didn't submit the reply.

I think we might be getting off topic, as we aren't discussing the shameless girl nor anything around that.

Agree. Let's get back on topic and ignore all the thousands of answers.

Must be a record number for such a pathetic, silly topic.

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

It was with one of your other aliases. There have been so many I can't recall which one told me he went to college.

I leaned a lot more about covert narcissism after my ex here started to do inappropriate things while living here.

Come on, educate us about covert narcissism, whatever that means.

Inappropriate things, like what?

15 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

You think it's my back against the wall? You have a wild imagination.

Were you on the phone or not?

The funny thing is, out of all nicks I know you had, you claim you are here to help and teach other forum members something. Be it right or wrong or on the personal level, and the strange thing, you ending up in bickering treads all the time.

When did you start a tread yourself sharing something personal? You love to create loud discussions in personal treads, thats your trademark, and why we discover who you are time after time using the same words, same labels, same methods and same bickering.

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Only this to say to your words, "Fredy appears to be so defensive, he seems unwilling to recognise his flaws and contribution to past relationship failures"

When I was young, I always looked to treat women well. It was in me as it's what I learned. I had many girlfriends before I married. A third mutually attraction and physical, the rest where we went separate ways because either young and not ready or not the same future plans. A failure perhaps because they didn't last "forever", but necessary to end better now than later so the hurt. if there was any, wouldn't be so much. After my first marriage. where I picked a cheater and not a good parent, absent much of the time and wanting to be stoned with friends while I stayed home with the kids, I divorced her and got custody. That's where I started reading up more on how to communicate and listen to women, even though I was good to her also. I read these books because i did want to see what I could change in my actions and thinking.

My second marriage was to a good woman who was addicted to pain killers (her doctor's fault, who would hallucinate and say weird things, so we parted, no children. It wasn't a bad marriage, but she did die from those over prescribed meds. I moved here after I divorced her, meeting my third wife. I treated her very well but picking the wrong woman isn't going to work out no matter what you do, as a covert narcissist has a game plan where you always lose.

I was reading these books and even went to counseling with my first wife, and the counselor told me she has so much damage from her childhood it would be very hard to change her thinking. She went on to a few other men, doing the same things to them. I tried to do whatever a man could do, and I wanted a happy, loving relationship, and still do, but my choices were my downfall. I did look at what I was doing,as I did want happiness and know it takes two, but that's exactly it. it takes two.When you pick a person that's on your page, everything in life is easier. When you pick the wrong person as a partner, and you have children, it's a nightmare that takes a long time to escape from, but my daughter here and her future are most important, so I'm again doing what's in her best interests

Fred... I know you and @Hummin think of me as the enemy, but you completely glossed over what Richard wrote.

No one is stating that you are lying. We are stating that you refuse to acknowledge what seem to be very obvious behaviours. Because you take it as an affront, someone merely mentioning that you might not be perfect, you get into arguments about it. So how could anyone close to you deal with such a situation?

You don't even consider that.

4 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Agree. Let's get back on topic and ignore all the thousands of answers.

Must be a record number for such a pathetic, silly topic.

Why would you assert that it's such a silly topic? 250 pages say it isn't.

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

The funny thing is, out of all nicks I know you had, you claim you are here to help and teach other forum members something. Be it right or wrong or on the personal level, and the strange thing, you ending up in bickering treads all the time.

When did you start a tread yourself sharing something personal? You love to create loud discussions in personal treads, thats your trademark, and why we discover who you are time after time using the same words and same methods and same bickering.

Why are you so obsessed with me? You joined up with @fredwiggy why? Did you feel the need for support in your lonely room? What's happening in your world? Why are you so upset?

20 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

I can guarantee that you cannot find any post where I have written what you have suggested.

That is just your imagination extrapolating something completely different. The fact is that whatever you write and however you behave is noted. I don't need to keep files on non-entities. You are simply a name on a forum. Not at all important in my life. If you disappeared tomorrow, it would make no difference to my life at all. So why on earth do you think that I would spend any time collecting information about you? You think too much of yourself. Both you and your 'friend'. There's a name for such people. 😊

Both becoming abusive, but then attempting to gaslight that the abuse is coming from the other person.

Perhaps just nasty manipulative men who need to pay for their company. Birds of a feather, eh?

Your words show that superiority complex, which actually has you thinking you're above anyone here,......................"I don't need to keep files on non-entities. You are simply a name on a forum. Not at all important in my life. If you disappeared tomorrow, it would make no difference to my life at all. So why on earth do you think that I would spend any time collecting information about you? "...........................Got news, you aren't in anyone's league, so I'm thinking this has been a problem of yours from childhood. We aren't the ones doing the gaslighting, and now more are exposing you for what you are, so your tactics are beginning to fail you more, with others and not just me.

Again, defending yourself and pointing out a character flaw isn't abuse.

We aren't paying for company but providing and helping out. These are wives and girlfriends and not hookers. You obviously are a cheapskate not giving your woman any cash to spend for herself.

2 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Why would you assert that it's such a silly topic? 250 pages say it isn't.

I can have my own opinion, and to me this topic is total rubbish, and most answerers regard it as that as well. 250 pages of basically nothing. But here am I still replying.

End of my interest in this, as if I ever had any. It started off as something quite funny, but went down to this, an argument between the OP and most others.

2 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Fred... I know you and @Hummin think of me as the enemy, but you completely glossed over what Richard wrote.

No one is stating that you are lying. We are stating that you refuse to acknowledge what seem to be very obvious behaviours. Because you take it as an affront, someone merely mentioning that you might not be perfect, you get into arguments about it. So how could anyone close to you deal with such a situation?

You don't even consider that.

You turning what I've said around to your style of thinking IS calling me a liar. That's yet another deflection. You aren't an enemy. You're just confused. How I write here isn't how I treat women in my life, as they aren't like you.

I have no problems arguing a point with anyone here. I use facts and personal experience, and some might disagree, which is okay. Some people stick with their side, all the while listening to the other side, and won't change their voice. That isn't abusive. It's point- counterpoint. I nor anyone else is near perfect. I made bad decisions choosing women to have children with, and I and my children have paid a price. I'm just here to pick up the pieces the best I can.

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

Your words show that superiority complex, which actually has you thinking you're above anyone here,......................"I don't need to keep files on non-entities. You are simply a name on a forum. Not at all important in my life. If you disappeared tomorrow, it would make no difference to my life at all. So why on earth do you think that I would spend any time collecting information about you? "...........................Got news, you aren't in anyone's league, so I'm thinking this has been a problem of yours from childhood. We aren't the ones doing the gaslighting, and now more are exposing you for what you are, so your tactics are beginning to fail you more, with others and not just me.

Again, defending yourself and pointing out a character flaw isn't abuse.

We aren't paying for company but providing and helping out. These are wives and girlfriends and not hookers. You obviously are a cheapskate not giving your woman any cash to spend for herself.

I have no idea as to how my words sound.

Indeed, I am just tapping on a keyboard. Everyone has the choice to not read my posts if reading them has a negative effect on their thinking. My perspective is going to differ from yours. I am not so intolerant in that I cannot accept that.

Of course you are welcome to give any woman your money, but personally my relationships aren't dependent on that. The fact that you selected women that you have to support, falls in with your controlling character.

My women are free. Free to choose whomever they want. It's nice that they choose me. No money. No coercion.

But you two sound trapped and unhappy. Trapped by your own choices.

1 minute ago, IsmeUno said:

Indeed, I am just tapping on a keyboard.

That's obvious, why don't you pack it in. Please!

1 minute ago, IsmeUno said:

Why are you do obsessed with me?

Again now you are projecting our own feelings against others. We got something you do not have, and thats why you continuously trying to convince us we are wrong and you are right, because it is your way or it is the wrong way. All I have been saying, there is many ways to a good healthy relationship, and also being a good man, but in your eyes, we are wrong. Im talking from my point of view, and trust I have argued with fred many times in the past, but I know him, he knows me, and we respect each other for who we are, and not what we are not, or do not share of common interests, life experiences or rhetorical ideas.

If I want to I can start a debate anytime, but again, me and fred are done with those discussions, because we got an history, and no need to repeat every word tread after tread.

I do not carry any conflicted emotions against anyone here, not even you. But what Im annoyed by, is the constant repeated argumentation and attacks.

Nobody going to change anyone at this forum, but I have changed perspectiv after a long forum life, and also living long time in Thailand for 20 years on and off.

Im not so locked in to one way of thinking as you are, and do not try to convince others Im right all the time. I can say what I think, but I do not expect anyone to change their view on the topic we discuss. Even I explain something in details why, but the counterpart just want to tear it apart, and use personal information for their own benefits in a discussion to make themselves believe they are so much better. for your information, I know who I am, I know where I stand, I know the consequences of my choices, and I can live with it. Thats the most important to me! Not what you or others think!

Time for something new to use our brain and resources for.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You turning what I've said around to your style of thinking IS calling me a liar. That's yet another deflection. You aren't an enemy. You're just confused. How I write here isn't how I treat women in my life, as they aren't like you.

I have no problems arguing a point with anyone here. I use facts and personal experience, and some might disagree, which is okay. Some people stick with their side, all the while listening to the other side, and won't change their voice. that isn't abusive. It's point counterpoint. I nor anyone else is near perfect. I made bad decisions choosing women to have children with, and I and my children have paid a [price. I'm just here to pick up the pieces the best I can.

I'm less interested in what you say and more interested in seeing how you behave for myself. I then compare that to what you say. There is a huge gap.

1 minute ago, wil iam not said:

That's obvious, why don't you pack it in. Please!

Are you going to at least try to post something on-topic?

1 minute ago, IsmeUno said:

Are you going to at least try to post something on-topic?

Ditto. How a topic like this can descend into what it is now.

3 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Are you going to at least try to post something on-topic?

I am not going to go back to look at your answers and comments to see your on/off topics.

On topic. I hope Cameroni sorts his woman 5h1t out so we can close this thread.

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

We got something you do not have, and thats why you continuously trying to convince us we are wrong and you are right, because it is your way or it is the wrong way.

This may be interesting. What is it that you have that you think that I do not have?

I have a loving relationship for life, without having to pay for her and her whole family. Is that something that I should crave?

I have a genuinely happy and healthy life, without having to plaster pictures of it all over the forum. Would you feel better if I posted my views and the food that I eat? I can tell you that they will more than rival anything that you have posted. But that's not my style.

When have I ever stated that you and fred aren't 'good men'? That, again, is your own ego at play. If someone criticises one aspect of your life, you become so outraged and offended, that you cannot discuss anything else. If you do that here, you do that in your relationships. Is that too difficult for you to grasp?

It's not about me. It's about you.

I don't have a problem with people being honest about me. But I'm not going to listen to some raging narcissist, am I?

Behave normally. Discuss normally and exchange perspectives. Arrogant narcissists cannot do that. They defend everything.

There was no attack against you, so why did you join to try to attack me? I see two mental weaklings trying to throw mud that misses the mark.

19 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Fred... I know you and @Hummin think of me as the enemy, but you completely glossed over what Richard wrote.

No one is stating that you are lying. We are stating that you refuse to acknowledge what seem to be very obvious behaviours. Because you take it as an affront, someone merely mentioning that you might not be perfect, you get into arguments about it. So how could anyone close to you deal with such a situation?

You don't even consider that.

The interesting part, I have nothing to add to what Richard wrote, he is spot on? What you forget to understand, we are all different, and what you think about my life, my marriage, might not be as black and white as you like it to be!

Or my life in general before and after my marriage. Never seen Richard pin point everyone for everything they said in previous treads, or carry any anger against any other. I have replied to him here several times, and got clear answers back, and no harm at all or bad feelings.

4 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

I am not going to go back to look at your answers and comments to see your on/off topics.

That also would be difficult, unless you include 2 of his previous usernames

4 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Ditto. How a topic like this can descend into what it is now.

I am not going to go back to look at your answers and comments to see your on/off topics.

On topic. I hope Cameroni sorts his woman 5h1t out so we can close this thread.

Your posts are useless. Go away and compose some music 😊

1 minute ago, IsmeUno said:

This may be interesting. What is it that you have that you think that I do not have?

I have a loving relationship for life, without having to pay for her and her whole family. Is that something that I should crave?

I have a genuinely happy and healthy life, without having to plaster pictures of it all over the forum. Would you feel better if I posted my views and the food that I eat? I can tell you that they will more than rival anything that you have posted. But that's not my style.

When have I ever stated that you and fred aren't 'good men'? That, again, is your own ego at play. If someone criticises one aspect of your life, you become so outraged and offended, that you cannot discuss anything else. If you do that here, you do that in your relationships. Is that too difficult for you to grasp?

It's not about me. It's about you.

I don't have a problem with people being honest about me. But I'm not going to listen to some raging narcissist, am I?

Behave normally. Discuss normally and exchange perspectives. Arrogant narcissists cannot do that. They defend everything.

There was no attack against you, so why did you join to try to attack me? I see two mental weaklings trying to throw mud that misses the mark.

Again, I just need to read two sentences, and thats it, and you do not understand it!

Just now, IsmeUno said:

Your posts are useless. Go away and compose some music 😊

Well at least you have taken notice of my abilities. Thanks.

Let's quit this silly bickering, and help Cameroni to get his leg over! 555

Just now, Hummin said:

The interesting part, I have nothing to add to what Richard wrote, he is spot on? What you forget to understand, we are all different, and what you think about my life, my marriage, might not be as black and white as you like it to be!

Or my life in general before and after my marriage. Never seen Richard pin point everyone for everything they said in previous treads, or carry any anger against any other. I have replied to him here several times, and got clear answers back, and no harm at all or bad feelings.

I have to say, your posts are really hard to read. Trying to understand what you are going on about. Your use of language.

I don't have any issues. It's you with the issues, can you not see that?

In my life, we can discuss and fix any issue. But if you have someone unwilling to listen, who suggests that the problem is solely on one side, it's not going to work, is it?

I literally have no idea why you joined the thread with your ranting and abuse. You were obviously stressed and upset. That's your problem. I'm not upset. I'm used to dealing with difficult people.

11 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Come on, educate us about covert narcissism, whatever that means.

Inappropriate things, like what?

Love bombing until they have you where they want you. they know exactly how to operate, and watch you like a hawk, looking to do things you like. My ex was great in the beginning, flirting, asking me to go places with her, and I took her to Kanchanaburi, which was a place I wanted to visit myself when I wanted to visit Thailand. Had a great time.

Went back home, came back again a few months later, again, then came back and married her. I saw red flags but they weren't harsh ones, and she was pregnant after our honeymoon in Phuket, and I'm a kids man so I knew where my future was going.

I wanted to move back there, bringing her there with our daughter, but she didn't want to go away from her family, one I later found out she hated, especially her mother.

I moved here, built a house, and soon afterward the problems started. I was always nice to her, did more than my share of house things, helped on the family farm, and her mom loved me. I don't cheat, abuse, listen and loved her and the family.

A few months after we settled in, I asked her to speak more English with my daughter, as the plan was always to move back to the US. She got mad, and left for 2 months. Truth. She came back, and about 6 months later, a small argument about money. She again left for a month. A few months later, another argument where she was mad at her mom, and she disappeared for a year and a half, with our daughter. if this was the US, I could have tracked her down and she would have went to jail. I found out where she was, filed for divorce so my daughter would be brought back, and the judge said if she did it again, she would go to jail.

While living at the house, she was suffering from depression, something she's had all her life, after talking to her family. Her cousin next door also said, with his wife, that's she hasn't been the same since she was hit on a scooter and hit her head.

She would sit and stare at the ceiling for hours, and didn't want to talk to anyone. Not me, mom, sisters, brothers or our daughter. This went on all along, extreme mood swings that went from very happy to angry and silent. The silent treatment is one of the harshest punishments a person can do to their partner, and it's a covert narcissists main tactic.

Once while we were staying at her mom's house, waiting for the house to be completed, she had an argument with her mom, and was sweeping the floor. I went over to her and tried to hug her, and she slapped me in the face and went to the kitchen and got a knife and came at me. her sister intervened and she stopped. Later she came into the bedroom and said she was sorry (only time) and hugged me. She did this with a knife three times, over very minor arguments. Her family has told me a lot about her temper and violent behavior.

Once her daughter, while we were staying at moms, took a couple hundred baht from my wallet, and she walked to her school, went to her classroom, and beat the crap out of her in front of the class. This is how she is, and her mom was the teacher. 11 children, very little love and only control and neglect (her words), from mom and dad, who she said hit them if they got even a little out of line. This is how a covert narcissist is made.

2 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

Well at least you have taken notice of my abilities. Thanks.

Let's quit this silly bickering, and help Cameroni to get his leg over! 555

I know lots. But often not necessary to reveal anything.

Why don't you get started by offering him some good advice?

19 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

I have no idea as to how my words sound.

Indeed, I am just tapping on a keyboard. Everyone has the choice to not read my posts if reading them has a negative effect on their thinking. My perspective is going to differ from yours. I am not so intolerant in that I cannot accept that.

Of course you are welcome to give any woman your money, but personally my relationships aren't dependent on that. The fact that you selected women that you have to support, falls in with your controlling character.

My women are free. Free to choose whomever they want. It's nice that they choose me. No money. No coercion.

But you two sound trapped and unhappy. Trapped by your own choices.

That I support, don't cheat, abuse or neglect, clean the house, do clothes, cook and help with the children and the farm, actually shows I don't control. This, along with reading almost a 100 books and many articles on relationships and psychology, also shows the reasons why I do. All woman are free. If you treat them properly, and they're normal, they'll stay.I'm not trapped. I'm only here until I can re-establish back home with my daughter, which takes time.

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Again, I just need to read two sentences, and thats it, and you do not understand it!

I don't think anyone here understands what you are going on about. You are just angry and stressed out, so cannot write in a way that makes much sense.

Just now, fredwiggy said:

That I support, don't cheat, abuse or neglect, clean the house, do clothes, cook and help with the children and the farm, actually shows I don't control. This, along with reading almost a 100 books and many articles on relationships and psychology, also shows the reasons why I do. All woman are free. If you treat them properly, and they're normal, they'll stay.I'm not trapped. I'm only here until I can re-establish back home with my daughter, which takes time.

So you are trapped.

11 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

Fred... I know you and @Hummin think of me as the enemy, but you completely glossed over what Richard wrote.

No one is stating that you are lying. We are stating that you refuse to acknowledge what seem to be very obvious behaviours. Because you take it as an affront, someone merely mentioning that you might not be perfect, you get into arguments about it. So how could anyone close to you deal with such a situation?

You don't even consider that.

To be fair - again - most people will skim what I wrote or simply not read it because its too long. That is simply the climate we now live in. Attention spans have shrunk - people are more stupid. People want slam-dunk one-liners, memes, quick hits. TLDR. Nuance requires effort, and effort is out of fashion.

The problem is that the most important parts of any discussion are usually buried in that nuance - the qualifying lines, the mitigations within the same paragraph, the conversational balance. Instead, readers fixate on the sentence that triggers them, ignore the contextual counterweight sitting two lines above it, and the bickering begins. People double down. Positions harden. Pride takes over. The ability to engage with individual subtleties disappears.

Many of the comments here - mine included - contain flaws, strong opinions, and assertions others will disagree with. That is normal. But if you step back and look through a wider lens, most of the longer posts, before the thread descends into sparring, are relatively balanced. Context matters. Unfortunately, context is rarely granted the patience it requires.

The true outlier in this thread remains the one individual insisting he has found true love and mutual respect in a relationship that appears transparently transactional - a woman whose primary motivation seems financial. That claim sparked the broader discussion about failed relationships and why they fail.

What has become equally clear is that, for some participants, the desire to “win” the argument outweighs the desire to understand it. If that same combative instinct is carried into their personal relationships, it is not difficult to imagine why those relationships might struggle. However - and this is important - how someone defends their opinion on an anonymous forum does not necessarily reflect how they behave at home. Some reveal far more about themselves than they realise - sometimes their misogyny leaks through so clearly that the likely outcome of their relationships feels predictable. Others are simply blunt or argumentative online, yet may be entirely different with a partner. We cannot assume total alignment between keyboard persona and private life.

That said, there are posters whose descriptions of failed relationships make the reasons painfully obvious. Their tone, their rigidity, their reflex to blame the other party - often a Western woman - suggests a worldview in which the female is perpetually the problem. Then they relocate, enter financially weighted arrangements, and label it bliss - when in reality it is tolerance with a receipt.

In Fred’s case, his failed relationships do not seem rooted in malice or defective character. Rather, they appear tied to an inability to identify red flags early enough - perhaps a flawed instinct for reading people accurately. He seems prone to becoming intoxicated by the honeymoon phase before applying clear-eyed scrutiny. Once emotionally invested, he appears locked in. “Only fools rush in” is a cliché for a reason. I am not calling Fred a fool - but he has been candid about his poor decision-making, and that same pattern occasionally emerges in his forum exchanges, where he misreads tone or intent and becomes unnecessarily combative.

The irony is that across the past few pages, most contributors share significant common ground. Nearly everyone agrees on the core issue - that the woman in question is taking advantage of a forum member who is blinded by idealism. Yet somehow over the past few pages the thread has devolved into a circular contest of ego. Men who broadly agree on the bigger picture are now sparring over isolated phrases, a single word in a five-paragraph post, an opinion taken out of context, a name someone finds foolish, or someone calling someone else’s opinion foolish.

It becomes less about the subject and more about scoring points.

And that, more than failed relationships or flawed partners, is often what derails both discussions and relationships alike - the need to be right eclipsing the willingness to understand.

4 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

I have to say, your posts are really hard to read. Trying to understand what you are going on about. Your use of language.

I don't have any issues. It's you with the issues, can you not see that?

In my life, we can discuss and fix any issue. But if you have someone unwilling to listen, who suggests that the problem is solely on one side, it's not going to work, is it?

I literally have no idea why you joined the thread with your ranting and abuse. You were obviously stressed and upset. That's your problem. I'm not upset. I'm used to dealing with difficult people.

The funny thing you read stressed and upset in to everybody who you having a beef with, not only me and fred, but everyone. I have seen this claim in many treads I havent participated but seen some replies in where you also participate.

As said, it is easy to spot every time you coming back with a new name, because of the same methods and same whay of adressing different forum members. Remember, I am only acitive in one tread at most two treads at the time being. But I read a few more.

4 minutes ago, IsmeUno said:

I know lots. But often not necessary to reveal anything.

Why don't you get started by offering him some good advice?

I cannot advise him on a situation in which I have never been.

What have you suggested to him?