9 minutes ago, sharot724 said:

As already posted here, this is for the owners responsibility

 

Tell that to my former landlady who outright refused... When I had to go to Chaengwattana later, I was charged 800 baht (and forced to do the TM30 as a tenant!), while my insistence of "Doesn't the owner have to do this?" just elicited a 'Meh' from the IO. (She seemed to enjoy fleecing the foreigner, while protecting the fellow citizen.)

1 minute ago, Will Iam Not said:

Certainly seems that way. I have a Visa from 2009, retirement extensions for past 8 years, TIN number for 3 years with no tax to pay. I hope I have my ducks in a row.

My US has an ageement with Thailand and was are not being taxed with that in place.

1 minute ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Tell that my former landlady who refused... When I had to go to Chaengwattana later, I was charged 800 baht, while my insistence of "Doesn't the owner have to do this?" just elicited a 'Meh' from the IO. (She seemed to enjoy fleecing the foreigner, while protecting the fellow citizen.)

exactly

to everyone that stress about uncertainty over ever changing visa requirements, -i feel you

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

"For more than 300,000 long-term visa holders, the changes have a retroactive twist. By 31 December 2025, every foreign resident who has stayed more than 180 days in a year must file a new Residency Compliance Report through the e-Visa portal. The report will link their presence in Thailand to records at the Revenue Department (...)"

 

Is this for real?? 😯 

This strange logic behind the taxes is what actually made me stay away for a long-term visa as well as DTV visa to begin with, I thought they would start with long-stayers on this that actually have a long-term visa, if it ever happens at all. Safe entries still work too, so I'll stick to my plan for now.

22 hours ago, Conno said:

Anyone know anything about some of the pretty serious changes [if accurate?] highlighted in this recent news story. If it can be believed, things seem to be targeting not just short term visa holders. but long term visa holders too? 

 

https://www.chiangraitimes.com/politics/thailand-policy-shifts/

 

 I agree with DrJack54. In many respects, the article is a load of rubbish.   Why do i say that (its a load of rubbish)?

 

That article is a mix of fact, speculation, and errors.

 

Under the title "Shift 1: Visa Overhaul, From Easy Entry To Strict Control" it states:

 

"For more than 300,000 long-term visa holders, the changes have a retroactive twist. By 31 December 2025, every foreign resident who has stayed more than 180 days in a year must file a new Residency Compliance Report through the e-Visa portal"

 

There already is a requirement similar to the Residency Compliancy Report and it is every 90-days. The 90-day report, or for the LTR visa the one-year report.  Show me an approved government document or Royal Decree that backs up what that spin in how the chiangraitimes article presents this? Requiring a 180 day report?  I believe only LTR visa has such ( a one year report) - and it is not tied into taxation.

 

Under the title:  "Shift 2: Tax Shake Up, Global Income Now On The Radar" 

 

Yawn.

 

Where have we heard this before?   

 

The article deliberately immediately misleads and starts off saying " From 1 January 2025, Thailand moved to a stricter interpretation of its global income tax system".  

 

Its Global income tax system ???  Does the author mean Thailand's existing Global taxation system? Nonsense !!

 

Thailand does NOT have a  global income tax system. That article is simply wrong and misleads. There is no  global income tax system in Thailand.

 

Rather Thailand has a remitted taxation system. A 'remitted taxation system' and NOT a 'global taxation' system.

 

Yes, there has been speculation for years that Thailand might move to a  global income tax system, but the article does not state that. The article states "From 1 January 2025, Thailand moved to a stricter interpretation of its global income tax system".. THAT is rubbish.  What transpired is in some respects, on 1-January-2024 (por-161/162), Thailand moved to a stricter 'remitted taxation system.

 

Lets now look at "Shift 4: Health Care And Welfare, Priority For Citizens" ... The article states "Changes to the Universal Coverage Scheme, which took effect on 1 November, formally remove foreign residents from subsidised state health care. From now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance." ...

 

How many expats even qualify for the the Thai 'Universal Coverage Scheme'.???   How many ??? Please, how many??  Let me answer:  Not many. So that article misleads.  Dare I say again, rubbish? 

 

The the article states: "from now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance." ...

 

Most expats?? Most??  From now on??? Serious??   Rubbish !!

 

Don't get me wrong. Contrary to many on this forum, while I do believe expats SHOULD get health insurance, the fact of the matter is most likely most expats have NO insurance company purchased/provided health insurance, but rather most self-insure based on their own (likely IMHO inadequate) estimate of what they need for self health insurance.  That view of mine is based on the view of the expat friends I have in Thailand.

 

 There is no "from now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance."   None. Nadda. There is no immigration requirements there for Type-O visa.  Even LTR visa holders do not need to rely on private health insurance (as LTR visa holders can 'self insure' to BoI requirements).

 

So to say "must rely on private health insurance???"  That is Rubbish !!

 

Then there is "Shift 5: Environmental And Property Rules, Tougher Coastal Protection" ... That states "The law bans foreign individuals from buying land within two kilometres of the shoreline. " .... 

 

Serious?  what ??? When have foreign individuals been able to by Thailand?  Any Thai land? When?? 

 

Foreign individuals have NEVER been able to buy land in Thailand. Anywhere!!  So there is NOTHING new there.

 

Again, rubbish - an article making a spin.

 

Be careful as to what one believes when one reads such articles.  Sometimes the article or author have a spin in mind, and they want to present a perspective, and they have no problems with distorting the truth.

 

 

Seems like the Lao borders have "come to their senses" at least a bit 
AND 
They are letting people with valid multi-entry visas bounce out/back 

Here's a stamp from someone with a 6 month METV who was allowed to bounce out/back at Chiang Khong/Huay Xai up in Chiang Rai on the 21st 

So at least there's something positive 🙂 

The Netherlands a new tax treaty with Thailand.. As far as we know now is that the pensions in the Netherlands will be taxed in the Netherlands and not in Thailand anymore. However pensions or income from work or assets in Thailand are taxed in Thailand...So for Dutch no need to pay in Thailand taxes about income / pension from the Netherlands when the treaty starts...although you stay more than 180 days in Thailand

2 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

The Netherlands a new tax treaty with Thailand.. As far as we know now is that the pensions in the Netherlands will be taxed in the Netherlands and not in Thailand anymore. However pensions or income from work or assets in Thailand are taxed in Thailand...So for Dutch no need to pay in Thailand taxes about income / pension from the Netherlands when the treaty starts...although you stay more than 180 days in Thailand

 

You may wish to start instead a separate Netherlands-Thai tax treaty, and your post may get more attention with a proper standalone title.

 

For example, the Canada-Thai DTA is of interest to me, so I have been contributing to that in this thread:

... anyway - up to you and the moderators. Thanks for sharing and best wishes!!

.

 

First page says it all ! Thanks ,it saves time and needless worry. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

 I agree with DrJack54. In many respects, the article is a load of rubbish.   Why do i say that (its a load of rubbish)?

 

That article is a mix of fact, speculation, and errors.

 

Under the title "Shift 1: Visa Overhaul, From Easy Entry To Strict Control" it states:

 

"For more than 300,000 long-term visa holders, the changes have a retroactive twist. By 31 December 2025, every foreign resident who has stayed more than 180 days in a year must file a new Residency Compliance Report through the e-Visa portal"

 

There already is a requirement similar to the Residency Compliancy Report and it is every 90-days. The 90-day report, or for the LTR visa the one-year report.  Show me an approved government document or Royal Decree that backs up what that spin in how the chiangraitimes article presents this? Requiring a 180 day report?  I believe only LTR visa has such ( a one year report) - and it is not tied into taxation.

 

Under the title:  "Shift 2: Tax Shake Up, Global Income Now On The Radar" 

 

Yawn.

 

Where have we heard this before?   

 

The article deliberately immediately misleads and starts off saying " From 1 January 2025, Thailand moved to a stricter interpretation of its global income tax system".  

 

Its Global income tax system ???  Does the author mean Thailand's existing Global taxation system? Nonsense !!

 

Thailand does NOT have a  global income tax system. That article is simply wrong and misleads. There is no  global income tax system in Thailand.

 

Rather Thailand has a remitted taxation system. A 'remitted taxation system' and NOT a 'global taxation' system.

 

Yes, there has been speculation for years that Thailand might move to a  global income tax system, but the article does not state that. The article states "From 1 January 2025, Thailand moved to a stricter interpretation of its global income tax system".. THAT is rubbish.  What transpired is in some respects, on 1-January-2024 (por-161/162), Thailand moved to a stricter 'remitted taxation system.

 

Lets now look at "Shift 4: Health Care And Welfare, Priority For Citizens" ... The article states "Changes to the Universal Coverage Scheme, which took effect on 1 November, formally remove foreign residents from subsidised state health care. From now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance." ...

 

How many expats even qualify for the the Thai 'Universal Coverage Scheme'.???   How many ??? Please, how many??  Let me answer:  Not many. So that article misleads.  Dare I say again, rubbish? 

 

The the article states: "from now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance." ...

 

Most expats?? Most??  From now on??? Serious??   Rubbish !!

 

Don't get me wrong. Contrary to many on this forum, while I do believe expats SHOULD get health insurance, the fact of the matter is most likely most expats have NO insurance company purchased/provided health insurance, but rather most self-insure based on their own (likely IMHO inadequate) estimate of what they need for self health insurance.  That view of mine is based on the view of the expat friends I have in Thailand.

 

 There is no "from now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance."   None. Nadda. There is no immigration requirements there for Type-O visa.  Even LTR visa holders do not need to rely on private health insurance (as LTR visa holders can 'self insure' to BoI requirements).

 

So to say "must rely on private health insurance???"  That is Rubbish !!

 

Then there is "Shift 5: Environmental And Property Rules, Tougher Coastal Protection" ... That states "The law bans foreign individuals from buying land within two kilometres of the shoreline. " .... 

 

Serious?  what ??? When have foreign individuals been able to by Thailand?  Any Thai land? When?? 

 

Foreign individuals have NEVER been able to buy land in Thailand. Anywhere!!  So there is NOTHING new there.

 

Again, rubbish - an article making a spin.

 

Be careful as to what one believes when one reads such articles.  Sometimes the article or author have a spin in mind, and they want to present a perspective, and they have no problems with distorting the truth.

 

 

Thanks for your input, you highlight many valid points. I'm going to agree with you that this Chaing Rai Times article seems to be a mix between inaccuracies, spin and speculation. The most glaring point for me is the fact that this is the only publication reporting some of these claims? Until they start surfacing elsewhere, and considering the implications of some of the points they should, then I'm calling it rubbish too. 

1 hour ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Tell that to my former landlady who outright refused... When I had to go to Chaengwattana later, I was charged 800 baht (and forced to do the TM30 as a tenant!), while my insistence of "Doesn't the owner have to do this?" just elicited a 'Meh' from the IO. (She seemed to enjoy fleecing the foreigner, while protecting the fellow citizen.)

If it's any consolation you were only charged 50% of the failure to file a TM 30 on time fine which is 1600 baht.. 🙂

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

You may wish to start instead a separate Netherlands-Thai tax treaty, and your post may get more attention with a proper standalone title.

 

For example, the Canada-Thai DTA is of interest to me, so I have been contributing to that in this thread:

... anyway - up to you and the moderators. Thanks for sharing and best wishes!!

.

 

just to say that the article is not correct... but you don't understand that.. It stat that all income is taxable in Thailand...but that is not true.. Now it is yes indeed... but if there is a tax treaty things are different... sorry you can't place my writings in right context

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

just to say that the article is not correct... but you don't understand that..

 

Say what?  Where did i claim the article correct?  Where do I not understand that the article is not correct?

 

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

It stat that all income is taxable in Thailand...but that is not true.. Now it is yes indeed...

 

No. Income from outside of Thailand is not taxable in Thailand if it is not remitted to Thailand. That is STILL the case today.

 

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

but if there is a tax treaty things are different... sorry you can't place my writings in right context

 

What context is that?

.

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Say what?  Where did i claim the article correct? 

 

 

No. Income from outside of Thailand is not taxable in Thailand if it is not remitted to Thailand.

 

 

What context is that?

.

Your income is now taxable in Thailand.. I have to fill in a tax form every year.. On the other hand I don't need to pay in the Netherlands... If you don't fill in the tax form, you can be prosecuted, Know what you are talking about

4 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Your income is now taxable in Thailand.. I have to fill in a tax form every year.. On the other hand I don't need to pay in the Netherlands... If you don't fill in the tax form, you can be prosecuted, Know what you are talking about

 

What income are you referring to?  How much income (if Thai income)?  Income earned in Thailand, or income outside?  Your posts are not so clear.  i wonder if you know the difference/importance of such?  My hope is you do, and the sentence just ambiguous.

 

Re Thailand income, it also depends on how much (does it exceed tax filing threshold) and if it is only interest income (with Thai with holding tax already deducted) then all Thai tax obligations for that Thai income is met, and there is no need to file an income tax return if that the only Thai sourced income (and if no relevant assessable foreign income).

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

What income are you referring to?  How much income (if Thai income)?  Income earned in Thailand, or income outside.  Your posts are not so clear.  i wonder if you know the difference/importance of such?  My hope is you do, and the sentence just ambiguous.

 

Re Thailand income, it also depends on how much (does it exceed tax filing threshold) and if it is only interest income (with Thai with holding tax already deducted) then all Thai tax obligations for that Thai income is met, and there is no need to file an income tax return if that the only Thai sourced income (and if no relevant assessable foreign income).

You don't know that when you fill in a tax form most of the time you will get the withold tax on your obligations refunded... Or do you have do much interest on it that it is more than 360.000thb a year if you are single

Move to Vietnam or another asian coutry if you can...or south of Spain, Malta, Portugal or some place in the Caribean. Far less hassles on immigration, tax and less getting cheated. Pricewise, it's not all that more compared to Thailand where the prices are soaring if you live in a area that has a minimum of facilities needed. 

3 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

You don't know that when you fill in a tax form most of the time you will get the withold tax on your obligations refunded... Or do you have do much interest on it that it is more than 360.000thb a year if you are single

 

 Married. Much more interest from Thailand sources (where withholding tax deducted by Thai banks).    No foreign remitted income (only pre-1-Jan-2024 savings remitted).  I checked with a local RD office to confirm my approach correct.  Also an LTR visa but that was irrelevant to the local RD office as they never had heard of such a visa.

 

Again, when referring to income, your posts come across as ambiguous.  

 

Best wishes.

18 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Your income is now taxable in Thailand.. I have to fill in a tax form every year..

 

So far they have never asked me!

On 11/23/2025 at 4:32 PM, DrJack54 said:

That's because IMO it's a load of rubbish and also attracted the flies to yet another taxation nonsense. 

Ignore it 

I agree, if these are really official, then they won't be in effect until they are published in the Royal Gazette and then i would assume we would see more newspapers printing it.  Until then, we wait until the "new" government begins to deal with another shortcoming in revenue collected versus spending next year for possible changes.

On 11/24/2025 at 9:19 AM, spidermike007 said:

Perhaps ex-pats should be given a bit more credit, in this formula? We do bring in alot of stable income.  Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. To say it is insignificant, is a blatant misunderstanding of Thai economics. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit. By comparison, an average ex-pat spends how much per month? I would say alot of us spend 50,000 to upwards of 100,000 baht a month. I know I do. No value in that? I know some live on less. However, since the average monthly GDP of the nation is around $600, that means about 20,000 baht a month?

 

I think xenophobia is utterly rampant, in all segments of the government here, from the feds right on down to the local amphur. However, I do not think most Thai people are that way. I think most either like us, or are indifferent to us. Which I can handle. 

 

I think ex-pats should be treated with the kind of respect and acknowledgement we deserve.I would love to hear an apology from them:

 

1. We have decided to change our policies, and we now realize how much you guys bring to the table.

2. An immigration officer will now come to your home to renew your visa, to show our appreciation, of your continued support.

3. You will only be required to sign one form, and we will give you a five year, multiple entry visa. Free of charge.

4. And we will include a 10,000 baht voucher, good for any hotel in the country, for one year. 

5. Princely treatment. Thank you so much for helping to rescue our economy and our people.

6. We appreciate it, and aim to show it for a change! We are past the era of thugs like the big joke, Thaksin and Prayuth. 

And we apologize for all of his abuse.

 

We realize we have been moving the country backwards. 

And Covid has given us all some time to reflect.

 

We are going to start changing things, and attempt to move the nation forward, instead of backwards.

 

LOL. 

well, I feel I am doing my share as since my daughter went to an international school plus now in local university, buying a couple of cars, motorcycle, house, etc I spend over 200K a month.  If drastic changes to the tax laws already on the books were to ever affect me, then my share of spending US dollars here would drop big time if not totally. 

On 11/24/2025 at 5:54 PM, oldcpu said:

 

 Married. Much more interest from Thailand sources (where withholding tax deducted by Thai banks).    No foreign remitted income (only pre-1-Jan-2024 savings remitted).  I checked with a local RD office to confirm my approach correct.  Also an LTR visa but that was irrelevant to the local RD office as they never had heard of such a visa.

 

Again, when referring to income, your posts come across as ambiguous.  

 

Best wishes.

Yeah knowledge of the LTR still has not filtered to the Thai government other than the BOI and a few of the immigration folks but even they unless they are senior (in my visit anyway when tralveling) still haven't gotten the word.  Once they do begin to pass it on it does make them seem to pass us along saying that if I have any problems then just come to the immigration office and they will take care of it whatever that means but that is what they told me.

On 11/24/2025 at 11:53 AM, ChaiyaTH said:

Yes of course if you are the property owner or condo owner.

I don't know abut registering but I have always done my TM.30 at CM immigration.  I do have to take the blue book owners copies, with copy of wife's ID etc but no problem as I used to have to be at immigration anyway.

Reads like more failed traffic control, with the gov't sending more tourists, long-term visa holders, and epats to other countries.

On 11/24/2025 at 12:38 PM, oldcpu said:

 

 I agree with DrJack54. In many respects, the article is a load of rubbish.   Why do i say that (its a load of rubbish)?

 

That article is a mix of fact, speculation, and errors.

 

Under the title "Shift 1: Visa Overhaul, From Easy Entry To Strict Control" it states:

 

"For more than 300,000 long-term visa holders, the changes have a retroactive twist. By 31 December 2025, every foreign resident who has stayed more than 180 days in a year must file a new Residency Compliance Report through the e-Visa portal"

 

There already is a requirement similar to the Residency Compliancy Report and it is every 90-days. The 90-day report, or for the LTR visa the one-year report.  Show me an approved government document or Royal Decree that backs up what that spin in how the chiangraitimes article presents this? Requiring a 180 day report?  I believe only LTR visa has such ( a one year report) - and it is not tied into taxation.

 

Under the title:  "Shift 2: Tax Shake Up, Global Income Now On The Radar" 

 

Yawn.

 

Where have we heard this before?   

 

The article deliberately immediately misleads and starts off saying " From 1 January 2025, Thailand moved to a stricter interpretation of its global income tax system".  

 

Its Global income tax system ???  Does the author mean Thailand's existing Global taxation system? Nonsense !!

 

Thailand does NOT have a  global income tax system. That article is simply wrong and misleads. There is no  global income tax system in Thailand.

 

Rather Thailand has a remitted taxation system. A 'remitted taxation system' and NOT a 'global taxation' system.

 

Yes, there has been speculation for years that Thailand might move to a  global income tax system, but the article does not state that. The article states "From 1 January 2025, Thailand moved to a stricter interpretation of its global income tax system".. THAT is rubbish.  What transpired is in some respects, on 1-January-2024 (por-161/162), Thailand moved to a stricter 'remitted taxation system.

 

Lets now look at "Shift 4: Health Care And Welfare, Priority For Citizens" ... The article states "Changes to the Universal Coverage Scheme, which took effect on 1 November, formally remove foreign residents from subsidised state health care. From now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance." ...

 

How many expats even qualify for the the Thai 'Universal Coverage Scheme'.???   How many ??? Please, how many??  Let me answer:  Not many. So that article misleads.  Dare I say again, rubbish? 

 

The the article states: "from now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance." ...

 

Most expats?? Most??  From now on??? Serious??   Rubbish !!

 

Don't get me wrong. Contrary to many on this forum, while I do believe expats SHOULD get health insurance, the fact of the matter is most likely most expats have NO insurance company purchased/provided health insurance, but rather most self-insure based on their own (likely IMHO inadequate) estimate of what they need for self health insurance.  That view of mine is based on the view of the expat friends I have in Thailand.

 

 There is no "from now on, most expats must rely on private health insurance."   None. Nadda. There is no immigration requirements there for Type-O visa.  Even LTR visa holders do not need to rely on private health insurance (as LTR visa holders can 'self insure' to BoI requirements).

 

So to say "must rely on private health insurance???"  That is Rubbish !!

 

Then there is "Shift 5: Environmental And Property Rules, Tougher Coastal Protection" ... That states "The law bans foreign individuals from buying land within two kilometres of the shoreline. " .... 

 

Serious?  what ??? When have foreign individuals been able to by Thailand?  Any Thai land? When?? 

 

Foreign individuals have NEVER been able to buy land in Thailand. Anywhere!!  So there is NOTHING new there.

 

Again, rubbish - an article making a spin.

 

Be careful as to what one believes when one reads such articles.  Sometimes the article or author have a spin in mind, and they want to present a perspective, and they have no problems with distorting the truth.

 

 

Actually under the requirements for the LTR, one must have sufficient health insurance or an account to cover a certain amount of hospitalization.

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

well, I feel I am doing my share as since my daughter went to an international school plus now in local university, buying a couple of cars, motorcycle, house, etc I spend over 200K a month.  If drastic changes to the tax laws already on the books were to ever affect me, then my share of spending US dollars here would drop big time if not totally. 

Exactly. The spectacularly arrogant and fearful officials need to take a step back and re-examine their priorities. 

 

There are some bad actors here. But, they rarely ever make that distinction with their silly declarations. We do bring alot to the table, and very few of us engage in criminal acts here. Give us some credit, you fools. 

On 11/24/2025 at 10:30 AM, Will B Good said:

 

It's a mine field for sure.....I've just read that UK state pensions and government pensions will not be taxed, but occupational and private pensions will be?

Interesting, where did you read that.?

21 hours ago, saintdomingo said:

Interesting, where did you read that.?

 

Memory of a gold fish........but here's a recap from A1...

 

How Thai Taxation Works for UK Expats

Remittance basis: Thailand taxes foreign‑sourced income only if it is remitted into Thailand in the same tax year it arises.

UK State Pension:

Taxed in the UK if you remain UK tax‑resident.

If you are Thai tax‑resident, the State Pension is treated as foreign income. It is taxable in Thailand only if remitted in the same year.

UK Government Pensions (civil service, military, police, teachers, NHS, etc.):

Under the UK–Thailand Double Taxation Agreement, these pensions are taxable only in the UK, not in Thailand.

Thailand does not levy tax on them, even if remitted.

Occupational & Private Pensions:

These are not covered by the government pension exemption.

They are taxable in Thailand if remitted in the same year.

If left offshore and remitted later, they may escape Thai tax under current rules.

On 11/24/2025 at 12:57 PM, ikke1959 said:

The Netherlands a new tax treaty with Thailand.. As far as we know now is that the pensions in the Netherlands will be taxed in the Netherlands and not in Thailand anymore. However pensions or income from work or assets in Thailand are taxed in Thailand...So for Dutch no need to pay in Thailand taxes about income / pension from the Netherlands when the treaty starts...although you stay more than 180 days in Thailand

What are you talking about, there is no new treaty at all. There also never was a issue for pensions and their taxes. This new 'change' is just enforcing what existed since 1976. In fact these new creepy EU rules more direct towards you being taxed at all times, no matter if you move.

 

They are going to roll out the same with a pilot in France where anyone who migrates still remains taxable at home for 10 years! Happy I am already far longer abroad than that, not planning any tax again in my life. Dividends and trust remains anyway tax free and that's how i build my pension.

 

Guess in the near future there will be a lot less digital nomads and people doing what people did so far. Best case they still come while being taxed.