16 hours ago, TedG said:

Such as?  

 

The view that Russians are warmongers is wrong. They don't actually want war.

 

They like to fight, sure, but most Russians are not people who want war. They will go to war to safguard their interests. But they are in no way interested in recreating any old Russian empire.

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

The view that Russians are warmongers is wrong. They don't actually want war.

 

They like to fight, sure, but most Russians are not people who want war. They will go to war to safguard their interests. But they are in no way interested in recreating any old Russian empire.

 

There are +/-140m Russians. I'm quite prepared to believe that the overwhelming majority of them don't want to go to war, and that many (most?) have no interest in re-creating 'Greater Russia'.

 

However, unfortunately, there is sizeable number of Russians in positions of power - notably the President - who do want just that and that is the problem.

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

There are +/-140m Russians. I'm quite prepared to believe that the overwhelming majority of them don't want to go to war, and that many (most?) have no interest in re-creating 'Greater Russia'.

 

However, unfortunately, there is sizeable number of Russians in positions of power - notably the President - who do want just that and that is the problem.

In the current situation in Ukraine, Russians have only two options:
 

1. Restore Great Russia.
2. Die.
 

Most Russians don't understand this yet—but when they do, the war will be over very quickly. We want to repeat with Trump what we did with Kennedy.

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

There are +/-140m Russians. I'm quite prepared to believe that the overwhelming majority of them don't want to go to war, and that many (most?) have no interest in re-creating 'Greater Russia'.

 

However, unfortunately, there is sizeable number of Russians in positions of power - notably the President - who do want just that and that is the problem.

Doesn't matter what the people want. It's Putin's dictatorship.

A consensus of what I'm hearing about Russkie public opinion though:

20 percent Z fascist pro war

60 percent tuned out of politics (which Putin loves)

20 percent anti-war

 

Of course the people in the 60 percent generally want Russia to win though which is understandable in any country in any kind of war. Winning can also mean a Trump style Ukrainian capitulation. 

51 minutes ago, zmisha said:

In the current situation in Ukraine, Russians have only two options:
 

1. Restore Great Russia.
2. Die.
 

Most Russians don't understand this yet—but when they do, the war will be over very quickly. We want to repeat with Trump what we did with Kennedy.

 

You're right. I don't understand.

 

Why does Greater Russia have to be restored if Russia is not to die. What do the references to Kennedy and Trump mean? You expect another 'Bay of Pigs' type situation? You expect Trump to be assassinated? There will be a Trump - Putin bridge?

 

Perhaps you'd be good enough to clarify matters for me. Thanks.

49 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

You're right. I don't understand.

 

Why does Greater Russia have to be restored if Russia is not to die. What do the references to Kennedy and Trump mean? You expect another 'Bay of Pigs' type situation? You expect Trump to be assassinated? There will be a Trump - Putin bridge?

 

Perhaps you'd be good enough to clarify matters for me. Thanks.

"Why does Greater Russia have to be restored if Russia is not to die."

Because if we leave at least a single square inch for Ukraine - there will be rocket launchers there sending endless Christmas gifts towards Moscow.

"What do the references to Kennedy and Trump mean?"

Kennedy's overconfidence and inability to stop made Russia great again. The USSR skillfully exploited these American qualities to raise the stakes until the nuclear crisis that resulted in the world going from unipolar to bipolar.

The Collective West's main vulnerability is, oddly enough, America. Haha. America's problem is that it hasn't waged a war on its own soil in a very long time, so when the USSR created a nuclear threat to the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis, it led to uncontrollable panic. Nothing has changed since then, and Putin is simply waiting for the right moment to play the same card again.

I suspect that if Trump allows a nuclear crisis to occur as Kennedy did, he will be publicly punished for it just like Kennedy.

1 hour ago, zmisha said:

"Why does Greater Russia have to be restored if Russia is not to die."

Because if we leave at least a single square inch for Ukraine - there will be rocket launchers there sending endless Christmas gifts towards Moscow.

"What do the references to Kennedy and Trump mean?"

Kennedy's overconfidence and inability to stop made Russia great again. The USSR skillfully exploited these American qualities to raise the stakes until the nuclear crisis that resulted in the world going from unipolar to bipolar.

The Collective West's main vulnerability is, oddly enough, America. Haha. America's problem is that it hasn't waged a war on its own soil in a very long time, so when the USSR created a nuclear threat to the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis, it led to uncontrollable panic. Nothing has changed since then, and Putin is simply waiting for the right moment to play the same card again.

I suspect that if Trump allows a nuclear crisis to occur as Kennedy did, he will be publicly punished for it just like Kennedy.

 

I'd agree with much of that. Being pedantic, I'd argue that the USSR was a superpower long before the 'Bay of Pigs' incident. Nevertheless, you present an interesting proposition.

 

Why is your answer to my first question redacted? Is that your doing or the mods?

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

I'd agree with much of that. Being pedantic, I'd argue that the USSR was a superpower long before the 'Bay of Pigs' incident. Nevertheless, you present an interesting proposition.

 

Why is your answer to my first question redacted? Is that your doing or the mods?

The USSR was a superpower only in the sense that it had nuclear weapons. And that's the only reason Russia might be considered one today. Even before it invaded Ukraine, Russia was close to economic stagnation. More and more, it's become an economic appendage of China.

4 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

The USSR was a superpower only in the sense that it had nuclear weapons. And that's the only reason Russia might be considered one today. Even before it invaded Ukraine, Russia was close to economic stagnation. More and more, it's become an economic appendage of China.

 

Agreed but in the '60s, military might was effectively the sole criterion by which power was judged and the US and USSR far outweighed everyone else on that score.

12 hours ago, RayC said:

 

Agreed but in the '60s, military might was effectively the sole criterion by which power was judged and the US and USSR far outweighed everyone else on that score.

It was the commonly accepted judgement. But it turned out to be a mistaken one much to the surprise of people like Henry Kissinger who was dismally ignorant of economics.

My opinion,

Russia should be our friends, Europe should be our enemies.

Just now, BritManToo said:

My opinion,

Russia should be our friends, Europe should be our enemies.

Why is that........?  😒

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My opinion,

Russia should be our friends, Europe should be our enemies.

Why is that......?   🤫

21 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Sounds like Great Britain during the colonial era.

 

Yes it does, and also like the U.S. during the colonization of the native people’s lands.

Judeo Christian murder, rape, genocide, ethnic cleansing, the whole spectrum of obscenities.

 

And all done while waving ‘the good book’ as justification.

 

The principle information that can be derived from this poll is co-incidentally the preponderance of British and American active participants. If somehow the UK, American and European audiences were of similar proportions then I suspect the percentages would be different. Also, remember that Europe is far from being a homogenous cultural and social entity. Although it has a certain level of unified governance, it is made up from many independant states, ranging from the Southern European nations of the Iberian peninsula, Italy and Greece, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe, the Balkans, the Baltic and Scandinavian countries; not all of Europe subscribe to that Union, notably Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

 

That said, it is my personal opinion that Russia has never recovered from the prolonged collapse of the Soviet system/society; a society which for all it's flaws, suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties still retained a functioning moral compass. It was hoped that a democratically accountable form of government with all the assocoated freedoms would emerge. Instead Russia turned to the rule of the "strong man", and this has resulted in a society still flawed, with the same suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties, but which has abandoned any moral compass. Whether this is due to decades of communism/socialism/autocratic rule, or the extermination of religius tradition is open to debate: but away from the big cities, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, it seems to remain a sullen brooding and backward society. 

 

Somehow Russia reminds me of the portrayal of Julius Caesar (Kenneth Williams) in the British comedy film "Carry on Cleo", as he faces the end at the hands of his rivals he wails  "Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in-for-me!"

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

My opinion,

Russia should be our friends, Europe should be our enemies.

Why is that....?   🥸

9 hours ago, JAG said:

 If somehow the UK, American and European audiences were of similar proportions then I suspect the percentages would be different.

The most interesting is the percentage of Anti-Russians among EU only. 6 people from EU has voted and only 1 "strongly dislike Russia and Russian culture and society". So it is about 16.67% of Europeans. Great results!

10 hours ago, JAG said:

The principle information that can be derived from this poll is co-incidentally the preponderance of British and American active participants. If somehow the UK, American and European audiences were of similar proportions then I suspect the percentages would be different. Also, remember that Europe is far from being a homogenous cultural and social entity. Although it has a certain level of unified governance, it is made up from many independant states, ranging from the Southern European nations of the Iberian peninsula, Italy and Greece, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe, the Balkans, the Baltic and Scandinavian countries; not all of Europe subscribe to that Union, notably Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

 

That said, it is my personal opinion that Russia has never recovered from the prolonged collapse of the Soviet system/society; a society which for all it's flaws, suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties still retained a functioning moral compass. It was hoped that a democratically accountable form of government with all the assocoated freedoms would emerge. Instead Russia turned to the rule of the "strong man", and this has resulted in a society still flawed, with the same suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties, but which has abandoned any moral compass. Whether this is due to decades of communism/socialism/autocratic rule, or the extermination of religius tradition is open to debate: but away from the big cities, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, it seems to remain a sullen brooding and backward society. 

 

Somehow Russia reminds me of the portrayal of Julius Caesar (Kenneth Williams) in the British comedy film "Carry on Cleo", as he faces the end at the hands of his rivals he wails  "Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in-for-me!"

 

The Russian Federation is still an Empire. In the old Soviet Union, there was a semblance of political (but not economic) equality for the Republics, though in reality that wasn't the case. The collapse of the USSR meant freedom for many of the peoples who were subjugated by the Tsars. The Russian Federation is still a Slavic majority ruling a minority, with Slavs distributed through colonisation. There needs to be still some border rearranging, and probably everyone would be the better for it, including Russian slavs.

 

I'd include the idea of the United Kingdom in that. I'd still call myself a Unionist, and support the idea of a UK. I am not an English nationalist. But I know a lot of people are unhappy about that state of affairs. One of the arguments for the UK was that it brought us a lot of influence on world affairs. That's clearly no longer the case. So what else is there as an argument for the Union, besides an emotional attachment.

 

In someways, the inevitable collapse of the Russian Federation (Russia is not a wealthy country; it can't afford to absorb the costs of foreign policy mistakes like the US can. This war will exact a cost on Russia) is the final act of the events started in August 1914. That shot in Sarajevo started a chain of events that caused untold human misery, brought down Empires. But that human misery was always there. The Europe that emerged was much better than that before. Was the cost worth it? Would you trade disputes over the definition of chocolate, the straightness of bananas for the Edwardian cap doffing world?  Live in blissful ignorance.

 

https://youtu.be/JODWCwycNmg?si=5MSv7VbEu-nRKjo9

 

 

 

9 hours ago, zmisha said:

The most interesting is the percentage of Anti-Russians among EU only. 6 people from EU has voted and only 1 "strongly dislike Russia and Russian culture and society". So it is about 16.67% of Europeans. Great results!

 

A poll on AN has +/-0 statistical validity

19 hours ago, JAG said:

The principle information that can be derived from this poll is co-incidentally the preponderance of British and American active participants. If somehow the UK, American and European audiences were of similar proportions then I suspect the percentages would be different. Also, remember that Europe is far from being a homogenous cultural and social entity. Although it has a certain level of unified governance, it is made up from many independant states, ranging from the Southern European nations of the Iberian peninsula, Italy and Greece, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe, the Balkans, the Baltic and Scandinavian countries; not all of Europe subscribe to that Union, notably Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

 

That said, it is my personal opinion that Russia has never recovered from the prolonged collapse of the Soviet system/society; a society which for all it's flaws, suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties still retained a functioning moral compass. It was hoped that a democratically accountable form of government with all the assocoated freedoms would emerge. Instead Russia turned to the rule of the "strong man", and this has resulted in a society still flawed, with the same suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties, but which has abandoned any moral compass. Whether this is due to decades of communism/socialism/autocratic rule, or the extermination of religius tradition is open to debate: but away from the big cities, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, it seems to remain a sullen brooding and backward society. 

 

Somehow Russia reminds me of the portrayal of Julius Caesar (Kenneth Williams) in the British comedy film "Carry on Cleo", as he faces the end at the hands of his rivals he wails  "Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in-for-me!"

Good post but I would say Russia has returned to the rule of the “Strong Man” 

 

Despots have been recurrent throughout Russian history.

9 hours ago, zmisha said:

The most interesting is the percentage of Anti-Russians among EU only. 6 people from EU has voted and only 1 "strongly dislike Russia and Russian culture and society". So it is about 16.67% of Europeans. Great results!

It perhaps has something to do with Russia waging a viscous war of invasion on Europe’s borders.

19 hours ago, JAG said:

The principle information that can be derived from this poll is co-incidentally the preponderance of British and American active participants. If somehow the UK, American and European audiences were of similar proportions then I suspect the percentages would be different. Also, remember that Europe is far from being a homogenous cultural and social entity. Although it has a certain level of unified governance, it is made up from many independant states, ranging from the Southern European nations of the Iberian peninsula, Italy and Greece, Western Europe, Central and Eastern Europe, the Balkans, the Baltic and Scandinavian countries; not all of Europe subscribe to that Union, notably Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.

 

That said, it is my personal opinion that Russia has never recovered from the prolonged collapse of the Soviet system/society; a society which for all it's flaws, suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties still retained a functioning moral compass. It was hoped that a democratically accountable form of government with all the assocoated freedoms would emerge. Instead Russia turned to the rule of the "strong man", and this has resulted in a society still flawed, with the same suspicious' xenophobia and cruelties, but which has abandoned any moral compass. Whether this is due to decades of communism/socialism/autocratic rule, or the extermination of religius tradition is open to debate: but away from the big cities, Moscow and Saint Petersburg, it seems to remain a sullen brooding and backward society. 

 

Somehow Russia reminds me of the portrayal of Julius Caesar (Kenneth Williams) in the British comedy film "Carry on Cleo", as he faces the end at the hands of his rivals he wails  "Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it in-for-me!"

Before the Soviet Union did Russia have a tradition of democracy? Dostoyevsky was actually subjected to a mock execution for alleged anti-government activity? For others, "mock" was absent.

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It perhaps has something to do with Russia waging a viscous war of invasion on Europe’s borders.

 

The geographic split of the poll (dividing UK/Commonwealth (aka UK/Australia/New Zealand/Canada)) from the rest of the world has more thana  whiff of Dugin.

 

Aleksandr Dugin is that nutjob philosopher who has the ear of Putin. He coined the phrase"Anglo-Saxon Atlantacists" to describe the UK/Australia/New Zealand/Canada/US, essentially countries that achieved domination through the oceans. He paints a picture that the "Anglo-Saxons" are a threat to the entire world, and the world would be better off without them. He wants all Anglo Saxons to be killed.

 

The poll, perhaps coincidently, seems set up to try and pit thse Anglo Saxons against the rest.

The only two times I had personal interactions with Russians:

 

1. As a scuba Divemaster/Instructor in both Thailand and the Caribbean. All the boat staff had a strong dislike for Russian customers and drew straws to see who was the unlucky one to deal with them.

 

Specifically, there is a PADI tourist program called Discover Scuba where you gave a mini-lesson to people who had never tried scuba before, then took them on two simple dives. As I recall (it's been a while) the first dive was not to go deeper than 6 meters, the second 12 meters. They ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS tried to dive to the bottom of the sea. We wound up above them, holding on to the top of their tanks, wrestling with them to prevent them from breaking the rules.

 

2. As a neighbor in a condo that was supposed to be long term rental only. The owner of the unit next to me rented to short term Russian renters. The most obnoxious neighbors ever.

22 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

It was the commonly accepted judgement. But it turned out to be a mistaken one much to the surprise of people like Henry Kissinger who was dismally ignorant of economics.

 

The fact that the Soviet Union collapsed essentially because of the failure of its economic system does not negate the view, commonly held at the time, that the USSR was a superpower from the 1950s onwards.