Why The "no" Vote In Northeastern?

[JR Texas]

Just my opinion. Surin voted mostly no. The people I know in northern Surin seem much more interested in Thai TV shows, Thai celebrities, whiskey, and going to the temple than politics. Before when Thaksin was here and now this was true. It could be that Thaksin's Mr showbiz personality brought him favor amoung the people who are thrilled by celebrities. Most Northeasterners over the age of 28 probably haven't graduated from high school. How many rice farmers are high school graduates? Most northeasterners who get educations move to work in the Bangkok area. If most of these people want to vote they have to travel five or more hours to return to their provinces to do it.

Forcing northeasterners to go home to vote is a crime in my opinion. it should be easier for them. They should be able to vote in Bangkok. Or else make the Bangkokians go to NongKhai each time to vote! It's always been easier for Bangkok locals top vote. It's a crime.

So my view is there's a lot of apathy in the north east, a lot of uneducated people, and a lot of difficulty for some northeasterners when voting.

Educating the masses here in Thailand is what needs to be done now that we are moving on. If the government doesn't take action to get people to use their brains and read and learn then the government really doesn't care about the people. If the government fails to educate and improve the lives of the poor the poor will eventually choose violence against the haves as a solution to their problems.

The words of the late John F. Kennedy come back to haunt us: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

And, Martin Luther King: "I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a thing-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered."

They were not talking about Thailand.........but the shoe fits. Nothing left now but a right-wing, xenophobic military dictatorship........smile, smile, smile. If you think a big change is about to take place after the election, think again.

[eddie11]

Do you consider the power that Thaksin had over the media to represent a democracy?

One where all parties had a voice?

Maybe they want real democracy not a military puppet regime

I consider democracy to be what the people vote for.

( you may say he paid for their votes but maybe they would have voted for him regardless)

Now all parties have a voice as long as you say what the junta want you to say,

if not they will remove you in another coup

[soundman]

If you look at the breakdown of the vote, one thing that struck me as odd was the fact that the vote accross the NE was not consistent with some provinces having an overwhealming "no" vote & others being split fairly evenly.

Although - the general reason that comes to mind for the "no" vote in the NE is from years of brainwashing....

I doubt the average villager has much idea what he is really voting for. They appear to just vote the way they are told by the local gumnan / headman.

Soundman.

[Aujuba]

I will add that a lot of the people in the village I have connections to just wanted to move on. I was there prior to the 19th and didn't see anyone promoting a 'no' vote or offering money. There was one meeting prior to the election which was called by the local Au-ba-dtaw (Someone please give me the English meaning for this!) A representative from the au-ba-dtaw's office met at a house nearby at 8pm. I didn't go to the meeting but my brother-in-law was saying that the Au-ba-dtaw usually gives out fertilizer to each house once a year. My impression was this was for his re-election or something like that. Anyways I ask by brother-in-law to let me know if the guy says anything related to the coming election. The next day there wasn't much discussion about the night before. If he had said anything my wife would have let me know too. By the way the local Au-ba-dtaw sells fertilizer too. Fertilizer is pretty valuable around this time of the year. Anyways I left a couple days later. I'll have to find out if he actually did offer fertilizer.

[bangkoksingapore]

Thaskin was an honest man and the NE'ers saw this, everyone else in the rest of Thailand are corrupt and hated Thaskin for his honesty and goodness, so they made up a bunch of lies about him being corrupt and got him tossed from the country.

....NOT !!!

Edited August 20, 2007 by bangkoksingapore

[Jingthing]

Mr. Thaksin is a Chiang Mai man, so he did well in the North.

Mr. Thaksin was apparantly the first populist leader in Thai history to claim to represent the interests of the rural poor Isaan people (NE region). So naturally people from both of these regions voted in support of the Thaksin side in yesterday's vote.

This all has nothing to do with the level of his honesty. All politicians are liars anyway, obviously.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Jingthing

[Aujuba]

The lives of northeastern Thais were improved under Thaksin as the lives of Americans have benefited under George W. Bush. I love comedy. Play the muppet theme song now!

Edited August 20, 2007 by Aujuba

[toptuan]

I'd say more a protest vote against the junta for screwing with a democratically elected govt.

Exactly. Bangkok delights in painting all the Northeast as a mass of idiot country bumpkins, and this warped picture serves the elite ruling class's purposes in this case, as well. Remember that the Northeast is also home to quite a number of universities and colleges, and there is a rapidly growing mass of educated people coming up through the ranks. Most of the educated people I talk with (including those with Masters degrees and Doctor's degrees earned abroad) were solid with the "no" vote for exactly the reason given by Britmaveric.

[DirkGently]

The way I understand it, the folks from the N.E are being pragmatic. Yes they know Thaksin was as bent as a 4 pound note, but what choice do they have.

At least TRT did 'something' for them. Where as the new gov are likely to do nothing for them.

The poor are less fickle anywhere you go. In the UK, Labour have sold the working British man down the river in favour of easy immigrant votes. "we let you in! you vote for us, okey dokey."

Toss the poor some crumbs and they will let you have the whole bone.

[sukanyacondo]

My wife is from the North east her words below..........

"I don't like this govenment i don't like Tuksin too if this referendum no good in the fewture i will vote no with them.

If vote no this govenment ''may be '' they want to keep them be govenment long time and shose new govenment slowly but i not sure about this. May be vote no or accep may be can shose new govenment."

[bendix]

When someone suggested they are uneducated, lack a world view, can barely read, are interested only in soap operas and chat shows and vote for whom they are told, I thought we were talking about the US electorate for a minute, not Thailand.

[Old Man River]

I'd say more a protest vote against the junta for screwing with a democratically elected govt.

It is a protest against the junta, but more because the TRT gave them more things than the junta has given them, since the junta has given them nothing. When you are poor, democracy is just something other people talk about.

[ColPyat]

I'd say more a protest vote against the junta for screwing with a democratically elected govt.

It is a protest against the junta, but more because the TRT gave them more things than the junta has given them, since the junta has given them nothing. When you are poor, democracy is just something other people talk about.

Actually, democracy means also a certain amount of social justice, which includes giving advantages and opportunities to the disadvantaged, who, in a democracy, have the right to vote for the party that gives them something instead of having to put up with the party, or junta, in this case now, who gives them nothing.

So, using a "No" vote now, or having voted for the party that gave them something, is their democratic right.

It would be nice if the other available parties would have used their democratic duty and given some to those poor instead of only belittling them for their democratic choice.

[Aujuba]

I'm just telling you my experience up there in Esarn. Even in BKK a lot of the people follow soap operas more than the news. And like you say the US can be a bit that way. I also said Thailand needs to put more importance on education and knowledge. TV could include more education in regular programming.

I went up to a guy on street and said "Do you know that they say 'Ignorance is bliss?'" He said " Yeah, leave me alone"

Shiny Happy People

[Old Man River]

I'd say more a protest vote against the junta for screwing with a democratically elected govt.

It is a protest against the junta, but more because the TRT gave them more things than the junta has given them, since the junta has given them nothing. When you are poor, democracy is just something other people talk about.

Actually, democracy means also a certain amount of social justice, which includes giving advantages and opportunities to the disadvantaged, who, in a democracy, have the right to vote for the party that gives them something instead of having to put up with the party, or junta, in this case now, who gives them nothing.

So, using a "No" vote now, or having voted for the party that gave them something, is their democratic right.

Such is the advantages of democracy as we know it. For the poor, this wasn't a philosophical statement relating to democracy, but more a view of what has the junta given me vis a vis what the TRT gave.

It has always been known that the NE constituted a voting block, hence the need to buy their votes in the past. Here, it appears for the most part they voted their hearts instead of selling their votes. This is significant. If they continue to do this, political parties will have to offer them real gains instead of counting on their votes via the grease that travels in the back of pickups. Time will tell, but right now, from a democratic standpoint it is a giant step in the right direction.

[roietjimmy]

Was vote buying really rampant in these areas or the people are just uneducated? What's the real deal?

There was no vote buying in my village. No one even offered according to the missus.

Most are uneducated but many are. They may be uneducated but they aren't stupid. They sure can recognize a pile of buffalo dung when they see it.

They voted "no" because in spite of all the rhetoric and propanda from the "educated" media, academics, government and big city dwellers they see the overthrow of a democratically elected government as just another pile of buffalo dung. They are also smart enough to know, no matter how they vote, in the end they will as always be on the bottom of that pile. I quote, "doesn't matter yes or no but we send tahaan a message"

Edited August 20, 2007 by roietjimmy

[ColPyat]

I'd say more a protest vote against the junta for screwing with a democratically elected govt.

It is a protest against the junta, but more because the TRT gave them more things than the junta has given them, since the junta has given them nothing. When you are poor, democracy is just something other people talk about.

Actually, democracy means also a certain amount of social justice, which includes giving advantages and opportunities to the disadvantaged, who, in a democracy, have the right to vote for the party that gives them something instead of having to put up with the party, or junta, in this case now, who gives them nothing.

So, using a "No" vote now, or having voted for the party that gave them something, is their democratic right.

Such is the advantages of democracy as we know it. For the poor, this wasn't a philosophical statement relating to democracy, but more a view of what has the junta given me vis a vis what the TRT gave.

It has always been known that the NE constituted a voting block, hence the need to buy their votes in the past. Here, it appears for the most part they voted their hearts instead of selling their votes. This is significant. If they continue to do this, political parties will have to offer them real gains instead of counting on their votes via the grease that travels in the back of pickups. Time will tell, but right now, from a democratic standpoint it is a giant step in the right direction.

And i do contest, as i have done so since a long time here, that this was the case not just now, but is the most significant factor for the huge success there for TRT. Maybe now, given the statements of Abhisit after the result of the referendum regarding the need for amendments, the Democrats have finally understood this lesson. Maybe. We will have to see which policies they come out with, and how they communicate them.

But we all would have saved ourselves a lot of trouble, if that would have been understood already at the miserable Banyat campaign, and the election boycott. We would not have had to go through a coup, and would have real politics by now, and not just a muppet theater only worthy of a pre-banana republic.

[Edonista]

Interestingly but not surprising the "NO" vote came out in the Northeast. This is the same place where TRT have always won in the past. Was vote buying really rampant in these areas or the people are just uneducated? What's the real deal?

Farangs in the NE, what is your opinion?

They cannot take any of this junta anymore. They are starving.

[chevykanteve]

Was vote buying really rampant in these areas or the people are just uneducated? What's the real deal?

There was no vote buying in my village. No one even offered according to the missus.

Most are uneducated but many are. They may be uneducated but they aren't stupid. They sure can recognize a pile of buffalo dung when they see it.

They voted "no" because in spite of all the rhetoric and propanda from the "educated" media, academics, government and big city dwellers they see the overthrow of a democratically elected government as just another pile of buffalo dung. They are also smart enough to know, no matter how they vote, in the end they will as always be on the bottom of that pile. I quote, "doesn't matter yes or no but we send tahaan a message"

From all accounts, there was no buying in my village either, despite any wishful thinking of the coup apologists. And you're right: there ARE many educated people up here. Education and general socio-political awareness has increased considerably these past 10 years, and I don't think BKK realises that. In fact, I suspect that many of the "elite" are in denial on that point. Perhaps that's for the best.

[willi2006]

...

Full support from my side for this excellent view.

[rafval]

my guess, and maybe its been said before, is that nobody was voting for the constitution, they were voting for an election in December

[ColPyat]

It appears that in my wife's village in the North pressure was put on the Puyai Ban by government officials to accomplish a voter turn out of more than 50% of registered voters, which seemed to have cost some anguish for him. Also, any discussion pre- (and after) referendum on the constitution was actively discouraged by government officials, leaving, according to the wife, a rather tense and slightly fearful atmosphere there.

[Sanpatong]

Completely agree with Medish' post earlier. A very eloquent and very restraint reply to the ludicrous question trolled by the OP.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Sanpatong

[thai_narak]

WOW! stunning replies here!

Thanks for sharing your opinions. Sudddenly the NE became the center of Thailand but I couldn't agree to most of you that Thaksin (TRT) was/were NE's robinhood. The poor, be educated or not, are the most exploited people in politics. If I'm a politcian I would myself embrace the poor as they are the 70% of the population and my vote would be secure. Give money here and there, buffalo here and there, and some free stuffs. Agree or not, this is just a political plot used in developing countries like Thailand were the poor are the majority. Example, Ex-presisent Estrada of the Philippines has done the same...

Another thing is, voting "yes" will lead to election the end of this year while voting "no" might lead to another chaos. I think the people in Bangkok, and other areas the voted "yes" had thought the same. "If you can't beat them, join them".

[ratchabuild]

WOW! stunning replies here!

Thanks for sharing your opinions. Sudddenly the NE became the center of Thailand but I couldn't agree to most of you that Thaksin (TRT) was/were NE's robinhood. The poor, be educated or not, are the most exploited people in politics. If I'm a politcian I would myself embrace the poor as they are the 70% of the population and my vote would be secure. Give money here and there, buffalo here and there, and some free stuffs. Agree or not, this is just a political plot used in developing countries like Thailand were the poor are the majority. Example, Ex-presisent Estrada of the Philippines has done the same...

Another thing is, voting "yes" will lead to election the end of this year while voting "no" might lead to another chaos. I think the people in Bangkok, and other areas the voted "yes" had thought the same. "If you can't beat them, join them".

Poor people in the NE believed in Thaksin and saw his ousting as a counter coup by the city dwellers.

[thaihome]

They voted the way the local patron "encouraged" them to do. Just they way all elections are done. That is why there was no pattern across districts and provinces.

To ignore the patron/client system is to ignore the root of Thai politics.

TH

[ColPyat]

Another thing is, voting "yes" will lead to election the end of this year while voting "no" might lead to another chaos. I think the people in Bangkok, and other areas the voted "yes" had thought the same. "If you can't beat them, join them".

And that is the reason why many of the "yes" votes are to be seen as hidden "No" votes - by people who were convinced by all the talk shows on radio and TV that a "No" vote would have led to delayed elections, but who disagree with the coup and the new constitution.

Chaos? It will come, have no doubt about that. The power shift from the elites to the mass of people will not be without enormous friction, now, or a bit later on.

The last two years were just a prequel, a sign of an ongoing conflict in Thai society.

[Solosiam]

Sorry but most in the NE are very uneducated abot these things.

In the wifes village they believe for example that Thaksin paid off the IMF debt from 1997 out of his own pocket, and a lot of other nonsense - I have no idea how this disinformation gets spread, but I bet it's not particularly hard to do in a region where most people can't read.

[thai_narak]

Sorry but most in the NE are very uneducated abot these things.

In the wifes village they believe for example that Thaksin paid off the IMF debt from 1997 out of his own pocket, and a lot of other nonsense - I have no idea how this disinformation gets spread, but I bet it's not particularly hard to do in a region where most people can't read.

indeed, there were many pro thaksin propaganda in there. they also believe that voting "no" is voting for thaksin/TRT.

[Jingthing]

I asked an Isaan friend why he likes Thaksin (back when he was in power) and he said its because a man so rich doesn't need any more money so he is beyond corruption. I then mentioned that someone with so much money wants something else even more, TOTAL POWER (not to mention even more money, there is no such thing as enough for the super rich), but he didn't get the concept.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Jingthing