26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I guess this was too difficult to comprehend?

"Not a banana republic in the economic sense, of course. We remain the world’s largest economy but in the philosophical sense."

Come back when you understand what I wrote.

11 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Meanwhile on the topic at hand, sans diversions. All over the world the Venezuelans in exile are celebrating. The removal of the Marxist that took the country to ruin

Do I really need to invoke how the Iraqis celebrated after Saddam Hussein was deposed? How long did that last?

8 hours ago, blaze master said:

..ill gladly take those worthless greenback off your hands at pennies on the dollar.

Why not take them off our hands at a premium if you are so confident?

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Wild & crazy theory from Glenn Beck.

Beck believes we are already in World War 3.

Venezuela has to do with cutting off oil supply to China. China is heavily dependent on oil from Venezuela. Also Iran.

If Trump cuts off China's oil supply from Venezuela,

1 - China cannot invade Taiwan

2 - BRICS currency cannot compete with US dollar

3 - China cannot outcompete US in the AI race

It's not that wild it's probably the truth despite who says it. We are at 1938 now prepare for war.

https://spectator.com/article/maduros-capture-wasnt-about-oil/

The fall of Maduro is also a sharp rebuke to the Kremlin, though less strategically damaging to Moscow than to Beijing. While Russia loses a platform for its own power projection and a rhetorical ally who validated Putin’s own authoritarianism, it is China that suffers the material loss. Beijing’s patient, expensive cultivation of influence has been undone in a night.

Ultimately, those seeking the logic of this intervention in ExxonMobil’s balance sheets are looking in the wrong place. This was not about corporate profits. It was about the grand chessboard of the 21st century. The capture of Maduro was a preparatory move, a clearing of the decks in preparation for a longer game of great-power competition. The United States has decided that if it must face the dragon in the Pacific, it will not have it breathing down its neck in the Caribbean.

I'm no Trump fan, but I wholeheartedly welcome the decision to capture the Maduros and drag them in chains to court to face justice.

As for Venezuela, under Maduro it was already a colony, a Cuban colony, condemned to sell oil at bargain prices to Cuba (which could even afford to resell it at a fabulous profit) and to China, while Venezuelans went hungry and were forced to leave their country in scores. The Venezuelan army, intelligence, and even the security detail surrounding Maduro are led by Cubans.

For a country, being a Cuban, Russian, Iranian, or Chinese colony means having no hope. Just look at North Korea, Nicaragua, Assad's Syria, Myanmar, Yemen, Cambodia, Laos, etc.

On the other hand, there is a long list of nations that, under the American umbrella, have flourished economically and embraced democracy.

Just look at South Korea, Chile, Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, and Germany, Italy, and Japan before them.

Trump and MAGA are an accident, a contingent fact destined to pass.

The United States of America has a healthy economy that produces great wealth and is capable of developing the human and natural resources of the countries with which it cooperates for the benefit of all.

Even though the United States has been a colonizer, it has historically been a benevolent colonizer. And I say this as a European, aware of America's shortcomings, but also grateful for what America has done to us.

Just now, AndreasHG said:

I'm no Trump fan, but I wholeheartedly welcome the decision to capture Maduro and drag him in chains to court to face justice.

As for Venezuela, under Maduro it was already a colony, a Cuban colony, condemned to sell oil at bargain prices to Cuba (which could even afford to resell it at a fabulous profit) and to China. The Venezuelan army, intelligence, and even the security detail surrounding Maduro are led by Cubans.

For a country, being a Cuban, Russian, Iranian, or Chinese colony means having no hope. Just look at North Korea, Nicaragua, Assad's Syria, Myanmar, Yemen, Cambodia, Laos, etc.

On the other hand, there is a long list of nations that, under the American umbrella, have flourished economically and embraced democracy.

Just look at South Korea, Chile, Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, and Germany, Italy, and Japan before them.

Trump and MAGA are an accident, a contingent fact destined to pass.

The United States of America has a healthy economy that produces great wealth and is capable of developing the human and natural resources of the countries with which it cooperates for the benefit of all.

Even though the United States has been a colonizer, it has historically been a benevolent colonizer. And I say this as a European, aware of America's shortcomings, but also grateful for what America has done to us.

Maduro took the ride if only Zelenskiy had done the same Ukaraine wouldn't be in ruins.

13 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

Why not take them off our hands at a premium if you are so confident?

Derp derp.

10 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It's not that wild it's probably the truth despite who says it. We are at 1938 now prepare for war.

All that as relates to this:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/2025-National-Security-Strategy.pdf

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Maduro took the ride if only Zelenskiy had done the same Ukaraine wouldn't be in ruins.

BS. Ukraine doesn't want to become a Russian colony again. That's why Ukrainians fight and are ready to die by the thousands. I know it first hand. I visited Ukraine many times and I can assure you that Ukrainians are very different from Russians. Ukrainians are European. Russians are Mongols.

2 minutes ago, JerryM said:

All that as relates to this:

Very true - the biggest problem is when you have massive debts and a poor manufacturing base and a restless population that votes that wants more butter than guns. China looks better placed than the US in medium to long term.

1 minute ago, AndreasHG said:

BS. Ukraine doesn't want to become a Russian colony again. That's why Ukrainians fight and are ready to die by the thousands. I know it first hand. I visited Ukraine many times and I can assure you that Ukrainians are very different from Russians. Ukrainians are European. Russians are Mongols.

I suspect if you can rerun history and see the oucomes and had Ukraine shorn of it's 10% Russophobic hate them at all costs uber nationalists then most folks would have prefererd to muddle through with a reluctant cap doff to the bear. They are in the worse of all worlds now - shored up by faltering western support and a mortal enemy of Russiaon their flank and all the slavas in the wrold can't hide that.

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Very true - the biggest problem is when you have massive debts and a poor manufacturing base and a restless population that votes that wants more butter than guns. China looks better placed than the US in medium to long term.

The US is better positioned to develop a manufacturing base in LATAM leveraging the human and natural resources present in the region, to lessen its dependency on China and Asia as a whole. China on the other end is only interested in LATAM natural resources and exporting its industrial products, as LATAM countries are now starting to realize.

LATAM countries must learn to abandon autarkic policies that only serve to protect the interests of local elites, open themselves to foreign direct investment, and invest in education and training, enabling the development of a middle class.

8 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I suspect if you can rerun history and see the oucomes and had Ukraine shorn of it's 10% Russophobic hate them at all costs uber nationalists then most folks would have prefererd to muddle through with a reluctant cap doff to the bear. They are in the worse of all worlds now - shored up by faltering western support and a mortal enemy of Russiaon their flank and all the slavas in the wrold can't hide that.

If there's one thing I've learned in my long life, it's that Russophobia is perfectly justified.

Name a single product, useful and beneficial to the daily life of humanity, that was invented in Russia.

Everything Russia has ever created is tied to military uses, and to mass destruction. No television, no internet, no phones and mobile phones, no washing machines, no cars, no air-conditioning, nothing.

All came out of Russia in its millenary history is servitude, misery and death, and Ukrainians know this too well.

25 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

I'm no Trump fan, but I wholeheartedly welcome the decision to capture the Maduros and drag them in chains to court to face justice.

As for Venezuela, under Maduro it was already a colony, a Cuban colony, condemned to sell oil at bargain prices to Cuba (which could even afford to resell it at a fabulous profit) and to China, while Venezuelans went hungry and were forced to leave their country in scores. The Venezuelan army, intelligence, and even the security detail surrounding Maduro are led by Cubans.

For a country, being a Cuban, Russian, Iranian, or Chinese colony means having no hope. Just look at North Korea, Nicaragua, Assad's Syria, Myanmar, Yemen, Cambodia, Laos, etc.

On the other hand, there is a long list of nations that, under the American umbrella, have flourished economically and embraced democracy.

Just look at South Korea, Chile, Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, and Germany, Italy, and Japan before them.

Trump and MAGA are an accident, a contingent fact destined to pass.

The United States of America has a healthy economy that produces great wealth and is capable of developing the human and natural resources of the countries with which it cooperates for the benefit of all.

Even though the United States has been a colonizer, it has historically been a benevolent colonizer. And I say this as a European, aware of America's shortcomings, but also grateful for what America has done to us.

whatever the validity of lumping these various nations together is, the fact is that the Trump administration doesn't seem very interested in undertaking the enormous expense and effort it would take to rehabilitate Venezuela. I never believed that Iraq was about the oil, but as for Venezuela, it certainly looks that way.

How would our Trump supporters feel if he puts boots on the ground in Greenland?

Would that make America a Banana Republic?

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

How would our Trump supporters feel if he puts boots on the ground in Greenland?

Would that make America a Banana Republic?

There are boots on the ground anyway all he needs to do is expand the current base and restore some of the abandoned ones if that was possible, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Century

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There are boots on the ground anyway all he needs to do is expand the current base and restore some of the abandoned ones if that was possible, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Century

OK let me elucidate, how would you feel if Trump tries to annex Greenland?

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

OK let me elucidate, how would you feel if Trump tries to annex Greenland?

Depends on how he does it. I'm past caring about things I have no control over I'm just one of the little people. If I was a Greenlander and he offered me a million bucks and a US passport, maybe I'd say yes. 2 millon there's no maybe.

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Depends on how he does it. I'm past caring about things I have no control over I'm just one of the little people. If I was a Greenlander and he offered me a million bucks and a US passport, maybe I'd say yes. 2 millon there's no maybe.

Would you stop supporting Trump if he does it by force? Would any of his supporters?

It seems to me he is giving them an off-ramp before using force.

1 hour ago, blaze master said:

Come back when you understand what I wrote.

Given that Stevenl had explained that he didn't mean that the USA is literally a banana republic, and your original comment didn't take that into account,nor do youoffer any explanation of where his comprehension has faltered, it's not at all clear that you understand what you wrote.

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Would you stop supporting Trump if he does it by force? Would any of his supporters?

It seems to me he is giving them an off-ramp before using force.

I'm not a Trump supporter - just a brit watching this in a state of disbelief.

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I'm not a Trump supporter - just a brit watching this in a state of disbelief.

You and me too

12 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

You and me too

You just know that Trump hasn't thought this through except in the most superficial way and that all he cares about is his ego , money and family. The rest is in flux.

Can one have it both ways?

"As Secretary Rubio has said, there is no war against Venezuela or its people. We are not occupying a country," (U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Mike) Waltz said, according to the readout. "This was a law enforcement operation in furtherance of lawful indictments that have existed for decades."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venezuela-united-nations-emergency-meeting-mike-waltz/

But then:

“We are going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition,” Trump said during the press conference Saturday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/03/trump-venezuela.html

24 minutes ago, JerryM said:

Can one have it both ways?

"As Secretary Rubio has said, there is no war against Venezuela or its people. We are not occupying a country," (U.S. ambassador to the U.N. Mike) Waltz said, according to the readout. "This was a law enforcement operation in furtherance of lawful indictments that have existed for decades."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venezuela-united-nations-emergency-meeting-mike-waltz/

But then:

“We are going to run the country until such time as we can do a safe, proper and judicious transition,” Trump said during the press conference Saturday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/03/trump-venezuela.html

The assumption that the VP has full state power is naive at best it will be the army calling the shots literally not parliament in any meaningful sense not a single point of contact. Trump did the easy bit but you can't keep rinse and repeat if he doesn't get what he wants.

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

the fact is that the Trump administration doesn't seem very interested in undertaking the enormous expense and effort it would take to rehabilitate Venezuela. I never believed that Iraq was about the oil, but as for Venezuela, it certainly looks that way.

Alan, Venezuela's oil production peaked near 3.5 million barrels per day (bpd) in the late 1990s, but has since collapsed due to underinvestment and sanctions, stabilizing around 1 million bpd in 2024-2025, though recent reports show levels closer to 900,000 bpd.

If really it is about the oil, then massive investments to reactivate the oil sector are inevitable. And with investments in drilling, more investments in logistic, financial services, infrastructure, etc. are required.

Unlike Chinese ventures, American ventures do not employ almost exclusively Chinese workforce, consume their meals exclusively in Chinese run eateries, use logistic services of Chinese companies equipped with Chinese made hardware, etc.
In an American led Venezuela, some investments will be backed by foreign investors, other by locals.

This may not equal to a full "rehabilitation" of Venezuela, but it is the closest it can ever be.

And I strongly and honestly believe that the USA is best positioned to ensure Venezuela get a good kickstart. The people of Venezuela, after so much suffering, deserve it.

4 hours ago, bannork said:

How is Trump liberating Venezuela's citizens by accepting Maduro's Vice President as the new head of government and turning his back on the real winners of the last election?

he kept the VP, the army chief, court, all under US sanctions for quite some time and all Chavez/Maduro loyalists, keeping the legally elected president out, well stupidly done

I don't see much mention of Maduro's successor & what is happening with the Venezuelan democracy movement. The candidate who opposed Maduro and who seems to have really won the last election is not being put in charge of the country. Instead Maduro's VP is now the nominal leader.

We haven't heard much talk about restoring democracy and that doesn't seem to be the goal here. Instead, we have removed on authoritarian leader and replaced him with another, who is just more amenable to US economic goals.

The US has a long history of supporting 'friendly' authoritarian leaders. This has frequently turned out to be a big mistake. It seems that Trump has not learned anything from history.

Listen to what Cruz is saying!

33 minutes ago, AndreasHG said:

Alan, Venezuela's oil production peaked near 3.5 million barrels per day (bpd) in the late 1990s, but has since collapsed due to underinvestment and sanctions, stabilizing around 1 million bpd in 2024-2025, though recent reports show levels closer to 900,000 bpd.

If really it is about the oil, then massive investments to reactivate the oil sector are inevitable. And with investments in drilling, more investments in logistic, financial services, infrastructure, etc. are required.

Unlike Chinese ventures, American ventures do not employ almost exclusively Chinese workforce, consume their meals exclusively in Chinese run eateries, use logistic services of Chinese companies equipped with Chinese made hardware, etc.
In an American led Venezuela, some investments will be backed by foreign investors, other by locals.

This may not equal to a full "rehabilitation" of Venezuela, but it is the closest it can ever be.

And I strongly and honestly believe that the USA is best positioned to ensure Venezuela get a good kickstart. The people of Venezuela, after so much suffering, deserve it.

Andreas, I'm genuinely trying to understand the principle at work here.

You've been a strong supporter of Ukraine backing hundreds of billions in aid, military equipment, reconstruction funds, and long-term commitments to rebuild a nation devastated by authoritarian aggression. The argument there is clear: a suffering people deserve Western support to escape tyranny and rebuild their country, regardless of the cost or strategic interests involved.

But now, when someone suggests the exact same framework for Venezuela a country where 7 million people have fled (more than Ukraine's refugee crisis), where inflation hit 1.7 million percent, where people are literally starving under a brutal dictatorship—suddenly it's cynical oil grabbing that America "doesn't seem very interested" in undertaking?

20 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Listen to what Cruz is saying!

20 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Listen to what Cruz is saying!

It's a mafia state run by the Don. They will steal as much as they posisble can and get pardoned on the way out. It's basically a genuis play by the Trump Crime family.