3 hours ago, Wingate said:

All you little MAGA weenies don't actually care about law enforcement. If you did, you would have criticized Trump for the 6 January pardons.

You did not criticize him. You are hypocrites.

I am not part of MAGA. I did not agree with the Jan. 6 pardons and opposed them. However, I do understand why they were given, and it was consistent with the pattern of previous US pardons. (Read up on the number and type of clemency, commutations and pardons extended historically. Previous administrations gave blanket pardons of Vietnam War draft evaders and drug offences, which were more unpopular with some at the time.)

I do care about a consistent enforcement of US immigration law. The situation of tens of thousands of people surging across the border in uncontrolled waves was a threat to national security. The presence of hundreds of thousands of criminals, many of whom violent and mentally ill, was a threat to the public and the migrant community too. The presence of millions of people who are working in an underground economy and sending millions of $$ out of the country is a serious destabilizing characteristic of the US economy. The exploitation of millions of people is a threat to the social fabric. The presence of hundreds of thousands of migrant children in the US school system and using the healthcare network is unsustainable. The impact that millions of people not fully contributing to the upkeep of social care services and infrastructure of the country is a financial burden and drain on the limited resources. The demands of millions of people for housing negatively impacts the housing stock inventory, particularly low cost housing.

The reality of the unauthorized migrant community is that while they provided cheap labor to the USA, their contribution in taxes and domestic spend is far less than what they take. This is an inconvenient truth that the proponents of doing nothing have failed to address. The migrants are not the enemy. Rather, the people who have made a very profitable living off of their exploitation are the culprits. The US construction trade refused to establish and support quality training and apprenticeship programs and to pay proper wages, and instead chose to whinge about labor shortages. The hospitality sector refused to treat its workers properly with decent wages and working conditions and then complained that people didn't want to work in the sector. The social advocates who make a living off the misery of others were quick to justify social assistance programs that focused on creating long term social assistance recipients rather than an environment that put these people to work and so on.

Migrants can come into the USA legally. We see that with the farm workers. A majority of US farms rely on legal migrant farm workers. They are paid a reasonable wage and have legal rights. It isn't always perfect, but a far better situation than that of the migrants who work illegally on US farms. It is unfair to the US farmers who are labor law compliant and who have reduced profit margins to allow the non compliant farms to keep exploiting migrants and pocketing the profits. Your position is to allow a free for all, and an open border with the free flow of contraband and violent criminals. No thank you.

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

ICE is catching plenty of lowlifes. But if they happen along other illegals in the course of the operation, of course they will be apprehended too. You think they should be ignored? Every illegal alien should expect to be deported. If they are smart, they will self deport and take advantage of getting a free flight, a thousand bucks, and the chance to apply for a visa the proper way, from their home country.

Kristi Noem Says People Should Be Prepared to Prove US Citizenship

https://www.newsweek.com/kristi-noem-ice-us-citizenship-minnesota-shooting-identity-11366671

5 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

I am not part of MAGA. I did not agree with the Jan. 6 pardons and opposed them. However, I do understand why they were given, and it was consistent with the pattern of previous US pardons. (Read up on the number and type of clemency, commutations and pardons extended historically. Previous administrations gave blanket pardons of Vietnam War draft evaders and drug offences, which were more unpopular with some at the time.)

Really. There's a history of pardoning people who attacked police officers? A history of people trying to stop the constitutional transfer of power? Interesting.

8 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

I do care about a consistent enforcement of US immigration law. The situation of tens of thousands of people surging across the border in uncontrolled waves was a threat to national security. The presence of hundreds of thousands of criminals, many of whom violent and mentally ill, was a threat to the public and the migrant community too. The presence of millions of people who are working in an underground economy and sending millions of $$ out of the country is a serious destabilizing characteristic of the US economy. The exploitation of millions of people is a threat to the social fabric. The presence of hundreds of thousands of migrant children in the US school system and using the healthcare network is unsustainable. The impact that millions of people not fully contributing to the upkeep of social care services and infrastructure of the country is a financial burden and drain on the limited resources. The demands of millions of people for housing negatively impacts the housing stock inventory, particularly low cost housing.

Hundreds of thousand of criminals? I guess if you include those who crossed the border illegally. Probably millions. But if you mean violent criminals or criminals with a repeat pattern of felonious criminality, what's your source for that?

How exactly do these workers destabilize the economy by sending money out of the country? How does that differ from legal immigrants sending money out of the country. For 2022 the World Bank did a study that showed 81 billion in total remittances was sent out of America. That includes both legal and illegal immigrants.

Also, do American tourists traveling abroad also destabilize the economy? It's estimated that they spent about 215 to 250 billion outside the country in 2024. What's more it's estimated that there are 5 to 9 million American expats which I expect includes a very sizeable percentage of aseannow members? Are they destabilizing America, too?

And illegal immigrants do contribute to taxes including to Social Security and Medicare. In effect, they are subsidizing those programs.

43 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

Nothing wrong with offering people incentives to improve performance,

It was in response to Hanaguma's claim that arrests of non-targeted individuals incidental. That it only happened when ICE agents were searching for dangerous criminals. And now Kristi Noem is telling Americans that they should carry proof of citizenship with them.

7 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Really. There's a history of pardoning people who attacked police officers? A history of people trying to stop the constitutional transfer of power? Interesting.

Not everyone was pardoned by Trump. Commutation of sentence is not the same. The 14 ProudBoy/Oath Keepers who committed offences were not pardoned.

Have a look at the Vietnam era pardons, commutations and clemencies. Some of the beneficiaries of the 200,000 mass pardon by President Jimmy Carter included some people who had engaged in similar protests to those of the Jan 6. protesters. Although intended to address the draft evader population, it did pick up people who had participated in campus sit ins, attacks on social institutions and largescale protests, before they fled the country. You forget that the Vietnam War era protests were as bad as Jan. 6 if not worse in some cases. Buried in history are cases like this one;

RICHMOND, November 18, 1977 -- Virginia Gov. Mills E. Dodwin today pardoned three anti-Vietnam War protesters who have been jailed for the last 60 days for their role in a 1970 demonstration at a small Shenandoah Valley college.

Have a look at the long list of pardons and clemencies here; https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-recipients

As I have stated, I do not agree with the Jan. 6 pardons, but they are consistent with past actions. Remember when Ford pardoned Nixon? At the time it was attacked and criticized, but over time has been seen as a necessary action needed to maintain social order and restore peace.

58 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

How so? I do not understand your point? Are you saying there was no murder?

I am saying the cherry picking or selection bias, in this case the fallacy of suppressed evidence, is no way to judge what threat illegal immigrants pose to Americans.

Just now, Alan Zweibel said:

I am saying the cherry picking or selection bias, in this case the fallacy of suppressed evidence, is no way to judge what threat illegal immigrants pose to Americans.

How many murders and other violent crimes does it take to move the meter with you?

How many billions of $$ in fraud does it take to convince you that there is a problem, especially with some migrant communities and in some regions?

Just now, Patong2021 said:

Not everyone was pardoned by Trump. Commutation of sentence is not the same. The 14 ProudBoy/Oath Keepers who committed offences were not pardoned.

Have a look at the Vietnam era pardons, commutations and clemencies. Some of the beneficiaries of the 200,000 mass pardon by President Jimmy Carter included some people who had engaged in similar protests to those of the Jan 6. protesters. Although intended to address the draft evader population, it did pick up people who had participated in campus sit ins, attacks on social institutions and largescale protests, before they fled the country. You forget that the Vietnam War era protests were as bad as Jan. 6 if not worse in some cases. Buried in history are cases like this one;

RICHMOND, November 18, 1977 -- Virginia Gov. Mills E. Dodwin today pardoned three anti-Vietnam War protesters who have been jailed for the last 60 days for their role in a 1970 demonstration at a small Shenandoah Valley college.

Have a look at the long list of pardons and clemencies here; https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-recipients

As I have stated, I do not agree with the Jan. 6 pardons, but they are consistent with past actions. Remember when Ford pardoned Nixon? At the time it was attacked and criticized, but over time has been seen as a necessary action needed to maintain social order and restore peace.

And not just pardoned but called heroes?

11 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And not just pardoned but called heroes?

Anyone opposing the woke NWO is a hero IMHO.

Trump is clearly a hero.

1 minute ago, Patong2021 said:

How many murders and other violent crimes does it take to move the meter with you?

How many billions of $$ in fraud does it take to convince you that there is a problem, especially with some migrant communities and in some regions?

Enough to show that illegal immigrants pose a more significant threat to Americans than native born Americans do. Instead of less which the best evidence shows to be the case.

Was the fraud due to illegal immigrants? Were they behind it? Are you you now against legal immigration as well?

5 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

It was in response to Hanaguma's claim that arrests of non-targeted individuals incidental. That it only happened when ICE agents were searching for dangerous criminals. And now Kristi Noem is telling Americans that they should carry proof of citizenship with them.

She did not say that exactly, although what she said was correctly described by one law professor as "nonsensically ambiguous". I think she would be best served if she kept her mouth shut and did not offer legal commentary. She mangled the SCOTUS ruling of Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District, in which the court ruled that law enforcement can compel people to show identification “if, and only if, they have reasonable suspicion of some offense.” The issue that is arising is that when ICE agents detain a targeted unauthorized migrant and people intervene, the ICE agents wish to identify who is obstructing. In those cases they can request identification. They are not authorized to do random demands, although some are doing that. A person has the legal right to decline, if that person is not engaging in unlawful activity.

2 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Enough to show that illegal immigrants pose a more significant threat to Americans than native born Americans do. Instead of less which the best evidence shows to be the case.

Was the fraud due to illegal immigrants? Were they behind it? Are you you now against legal immigration as well?

Well, since you raised the issue; as of Jan 2025; Somali Americans make up 82 of the 92 defendants charged so far, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for Minnesota. Half or more of the roughly $18 billion in federal funds that supported 14 Minnesota-run programs since 2018 may have been stolen, https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-fraud-feeding-our-future-medicaid-9911799c0d0149a64a042abed095be57

I think it is fair to conclude that there is a serious fraud problem with the Somali community in Minnesota.

13 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

And not just pardoned but called heroes?

And? You are barking up the wrong tree if you expect me to support the disposition of. the Jan 6. people. I have a consistent approach to. pardons and commutations. I disagree with the use of the term hero, just as a I disagree with the use of terms by some people such as resister, noble, heroic, leaders and courageous for Carter's 200,000 beneficiaries. I think appropriate terms for some of them were cowardly, selfish, hedonistic, pampered, and privileged.

19 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Well, since you raised the issue; as of Jan 2025; Somali Americans make up 82 of the 92 defendants charged so far, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for Minnesota. Half or more of the roughly $18 billion in federal funds that supported 14 Minnesota-run programs since 2018 may have been stolen, https://apnews.com/article/minnesota-fraud-feeding-our-future-medicaid-9911799c0d0149a64a042abed095be57

I think it is fair to conclude that there is a serious fraud problem with the Somali community in Minnesota.

No. I asked if they were illegal immigrants. Not if they were Somali immigrants.

There is a well understood concept called blowback and ICE (the domestic terror unit) is certainly facing that now. Both the DHS and Noem never, ever deserve the benefit of the doubt.

DHS and the administration have repeatedly said that agents were fanning out across the country to detain immigrants who’d committed crimes. (Vice President JD Vance made this claim on Thursday, in fact.) As 2025 unfolded, though, we learned that immigrants with no criminal record made up more ICE arrests than immigrants with criminal convictions. The number of detainees arrested by ICE without convictions or pending criminal charges rose from 842 on Dec. 1, 2024, to 21,892 on Nov. 30, 2025 — an astounding 2,500% increase.

U.S. District Court Judge Sara Ellis summarized the credibility of Noem and DHS in a 233-page ruling issued in late November. After articulating several claims that DHS had presented in a lawsuit alleging the use of excessive force in Chicago, Ellis anticipated how the government would respond.

“While Defendants may argue that the Court identifies only minor inconsistencies,” Ellis wrote, “every minor inconsistency adds up, and at some point, it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to believe almost anything that Defendants represent.”

The government accused two people, Marimar Martinez and Anthony Ruiz, of attempting to ambush federal agents. DHS claimed that Martinez was armed and that she was struck by “defensive fire” from officers. Both were described by the agency as “domestic terrorists” — as was Renee Good.

The Justice Department eventually dropped the charges against Martinez and Ruiz. A permitted firearm holder, Martinez never took her gun out of her purse. Her attorney said that he’d seen footage indicating that DHS agents rammed her car, rather than her striking them. The DHS official who relayed this story to the press? Tricia McLaughlin.

One might wonder why agents of the federal government would consistently misrepresent the actions of their agency and its employees. Some of it might be explained by their desire to show allegiance to their workforce. Some might be ascribed to errors or incomplete information. But we cannot assume that this is the sole motivation when the government agency at issue is part of the Trump administration.

The president has repeatedly demonstrated a willingness in the past decade to make false claims that impugn his opponents or celebrate his allies — or both. This approach has permeated the government, carried into individual agencies by the loyal allies he’s installed as their leaders.

What this means, though, is that the skepticism one ought to bring to any pronouncement of Trump should similarly be applied to those who work for and defend him. Particularly when — as in the case of the Department of Homeland Security — those officials have repeatedly been caught in fabrications of their own.

https://share.google/x4gCOznmUnx0wwxRq

33 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

She did not say that exactly, although what she said was correctly described by one law professor as "nonsensically ambiguous". I think she would be best served if she kept her mouth shut and did not offer legal commentary. She mangled the SCOTUS ruling of Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District, in which the court ruled that law enforcement can compel people to show identification “if, and only if, they have reasonable suspicion of some offense.” The issue that is arising is that when ICE agents detain a targeted unauthorized migrant and people intervene, the ICE agents wish to identify who is obstructing. In those cases they can request identification. They are not authorized to do random demands, although some are doing that. A person has the legal right to decline, if that person is not engaging in unlawful activity.

This is what happens when you appoint a bottom of the barrel, low quality individual with a substandard intellect to an incredibly important position, in a time of great peril, and at a time when freedom and liberty are in jeopardy for the average American.

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Enough to show that illegal immigrants pose a more significant threat to Americans than native born Americans do. Instead of less which the best evidence shows to be the case.

Was the fraud due to illegal immigrants? Were they behind it? Are you you now against legal immigration as well?

By definition, every illegal immigrant has broken federal law. Plus, if they are working, that is also a crime. Plus, if they are using a fake or stolen Social Security number, that is a rather serious felony. Plus, if they are driving without a license or insurance, that is also a crime and rather dangerous to the public.

Remove them all. Focus on the worst of the worst at first, but eventually remove them all. Keep giving incentives to those who want to voluntarily self-deport, but the rest need to live in unease.

3 hours ago, riclag said:

I have documented 32 pages of at least one foreign national infractions per day .I could of posted much much more. 66% have committed crimes , that result in their deportation. American’s dont care what communist/ socialist /marxist object too.

Okay, let's see 'em.

Snow shovels and brooms, oh my. Those agents must have pissed their panties!

"Being "struck by a snow shovel" accounts for about 15% of non-fatal injuries reported to emergency rooms." 

It was attempted murder, I tell ya!

27 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

By definition, every illegal immigrant has broken federal law. Plus, if they are working, that is also a crime. Plus, if they are using a fake or stolen Social Security number, that is a rather serious felony. Plus, if they are driving without a license or insurance, that is also a crime and rather dangerous to the public.

Remove them all. Focus on the worst of the worst at first, but eventually remove them all. Keep giving incentives to those who want to voluntarily self-deport, but the rest need to live in unease.

Please, I specified "pose a threat" Trump keeps on claiming he's going after the dangerous criminals and the mentally ill. It's just not true.

In another related incident surrounding the second attack in Minnesota on a Fed LE.

Theres a video out showing a mob & their faces all participating in what they thought was a joyous find.

"The FBI said multiple government vehicles were vandalized and broken into Wednesday night in Minneapolis while agents were responding to a reported assault on a federal officer, adding that federal property was stolen from inside the vehicles".

"This criminal is a perfect example of what our brave federal law enforcement agents are up against every day as Minnesota leadership ENCOURAGES lawbreaking," she wrote in a post on X.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/latin-kings-gang-member-accused-vandalizing-fbi-vehicle-stealing-government-property-minneapolis

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Snow shovels and brooms, oh my. Those agents must have pissed their panties!

"Being "struck by a snow shovel" accounts for about 15% of non-fatal injuries reported to emergency rooms." 

It was attempted murder, I tell ya!

Tell you what, go hit one of the protestors in the head with a broom handle which is a blunt object, or a snow shovel and let us know what happens. Does it result in death or serious physical injury or is nothing? Are you arrested for physical assault and murder if the person dies? Ask the person you struck if they mind being beaten by a violent maniac. When you are arrested and charged, you can tell the police, and then the court, it was nothing and that everyone is excited over a non event.

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Please, I specified "pose a threat" Trump keeps on claiming he's going after the dangerous criminals and the mentally ill. It's just not true.

When pursuing the large targets, you often have to cut through the defensive perimeter. The people being stopped are not authorized residents or visitors. They had an opportunity to become authorized but were either refused for cause, or never bothered to do so. Low hanging rotted fruit being cleaned up now. At some point they would be swept up when they were more rotten and on the ground. SO either now or next month, it doesn't matter.

2 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Please, I specified "pose a threat" Trump keeps on claiming he's going after the dangerous criminals and the mentally ill. It's just not true.

So you think the so-called not dangerous illegal immigrants should just be ignored if ICE happens across them?

48 minutes ago, riclag said:

In another related incident surrounding the second attack in Minnesota on a Fed LE.

Theres a video out showing a mob & their faces all participating in what they thought was a joyous find.

"The FBI said multiple government vehicles were vandalized and broken into Wednesday night in Minneapolis while agents were responding to a reported assault on a federal officer, adding that federal property was stolen from inside the vehicles".

"This criminal is a perfect example of what our brave federal law enforcement agents are up against every day as Minnesota leadership ENCOURAGES lawbreaking," she wrote in a post on X.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/latin-kings-gang-member-accused-vandalizing-fbi-vehicle-stealing-government-property-minneapolis

But one of your heros just executed an unarmed lady, a real tough guy, eh, yeh I know, he forgot he wasn't in Afghanistan, but chummy, that is no excuse, now is it.........? 😉

1 minute ago, Hanaguma said:

So you think the so-called not dangerous illegal immigrants should just be ignored if ICE happens across them?

Weeeell, they now know your heros just executed an actual American lady for nothing....🤫

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

So you think the so-called not dangerous illegal immigrants should just be ignored if ICE happens across them?

You mean like those 3 native Americans?

20 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

When pursuing the large targets, you often have to cut through the defensive perimeter. The people being stopped are not authorized residents or visitors. They had an opportunity to become authorized but were either refused for cause, or never bothered to do so. Low hanging rotted fruit being cleaned up now. At some point they would be swept up when they were more rotten and on the ground. SO either now or next month, it doesn't matter.

The defensive perimeter? What are you on about? What are these large targets? So not only is the fruit low hanging but it's rotted? Bizarre.

Its rather obvious that many on the left despise all law enforcement . So much so that they would support terrorist gangbangers, all forms of criminal, many support anarchy .