Flight OG269: At Least 88 Bodies Found At Phuket Airport Crash Site

[Old Man River]

What a load of rubbish. Cause of the crash ? Weather my ar5e. The pilot decides if the weather is suitable for landing and the pilot was informed of wind shear conditions.

Cause of the crash.......error of judgement by the pilot, or to make it really simple, PILOT ERROR, nothing else.

Yes and no. Yes, in that the pilot, obviously, made the wrong decision to try to land. No, in that had the pilot been given the full picture of what he would fly into he may well have made a different decision.

The airport was/is not equiped with Dopplar radar and 50% of their wind instruments were out of order anyway. In addition, while all newer planes have sophisticated wind shear instruments, the old plane being flown was not equiped with this. Hence, the pilot made his decision on limited data. It appears that this was an accident waiting to happen.

[TAWP]

And if the pilot is overworked and tired he would be more prone to make a mistake, which would be the responsibility of his superiors.

[jumnien]

I don't think that there is any evidence that the Thai pilot who was flying at the time of the accident or the Indonesian pilot were overworded or tired at the time of the crash. If the pilots were unfit to fly it is their responsibility to dismiss themselves. You can't blame everything on the bean counters back at home office. These are professional pilots who know the laws.

[Mid]

^

look back around post #577

[baabaabobo]

A letter in this weeks Phuket gazette from a Cathay pacific pilot living in Phuket is pretty damning of the pilot's decision not to divert stating that there is always reserve fuel for such a diversion.

[Mid]

^

there's also a suggestion in this thread that the cost of such a move unfortunately would have had more than it's due importance placed upon it when making that fateful call ..............

[Jai Dee]

Two families of plane crash victims to file lawsuits against One-Two-Go airline & Boeing Company through US law firm

A lawyer from the Newton B. Schwartz law office in the United States of America traveled to Phuket province to provide legal consultation for the September 16th crash One-Two-Go victims’ families and the injured who wish to file lawsuits against people or companies involved in the accident.

The experienced lawyer and owner of the US firm stated that two families have designated his firm to pursue a lawsuit against the airline and demand more compensation. One is Mr. Chaowalert Jitchamnong. The accident claimed his wife’s life and left him and his son injured. Another man is Mr. Paiboon Pa-phan who helped save foreigners’ lives.

After consulting clients, the law firm will consider who will be sued either in the US or Thailand. The firm vowed to demand as much compensation as possible for its clients.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 24 October 2007

[JetsetBkk]

. Another man is Mr. Paiboon Pa-phan who helped save foreigners’ lives.

He's the guy who went back inside and got the Australian Robert Borland out. A true hero.

[bmanly]

This is a major news story that all people who have been following this thread should see. It was a news story on the Sunday Program on Channel 9 Australia shown on Sunday 18/11/2007. CLICK HERE TO WATCH VIDEO, unfortunately an ad will run for a few seconds first, then watch the story.

Cut price tickets, cut price safety

November 18, 2007

Reporter :Sarah Ferguson

Hundreds of thousands of Australians will fly to Thailand this summer; large numbers using budget airlines based in Asia. But the question they should be asking is — is it safe? On September 16, 2007, a plane from one of the Thai budget airlines crashed on the holiday island of Phuket. Ninety people died, including one Australian. Many burned alive in the inferno. An accident caused by bad weather? Not so, say former pilots for the airline. We will also hear of the secret documents discovered by Sunday that dramatically changed the course of the crash investigation.

[Supaporn]

Chilling, yet alas, heads probably won't roll over it. Sad.

[Burr]

This is a major news story that all people who have been following this thread should see. It was a news story on the Sunday Program on Channel 9 Australia shown on Sunday 18/11/2007. CLICK HERE TO WATCH VIDEO, unfortunately an ad will run for a few seconds first, then watch the story.

I'll bet nothing happens and they keep on flying as is.

[ThaidleHands]

Chilling, yet alas, heads probably won't roll over it. Sad.

It would be nice if heads rolled as they certainly seem to deserve it based on what's been revealed so far. But that's really a matter for Thai justice which very few can influence. What we can do is to help get the word out that this is an unsafe airline and hit them in the pocketbook which is generally the language businesses understand best.

[Scott]

It would appear that like so many things here, this is a conspiracy of silence. The company provides the investigators with a 'summary' of the flight hours. This isn't a routine inspection, it's an investigation and the investigators should double check with a number of sources the accuracy of everything reported.

Sadly, it seems that journalists from another country can rather quickly and easily uncover what alludes gov't authorities.

[chinthee]

That's a brave reporter and crew. But if they think they can waltz into a foreign country like Thailand and pull off a "60 minutes" cover-up scoop, they've got a few things coming. Just wait for the big sucking sound of silence on this one.

[jumnien]

I wouldn't take investigative journalism by Australian reporters very seriously. It's rare to spot them anywhere but the rooftop of the Maneeya Center with the Bangkok Sports Club in the backround reporting "live" from Thailand! Bridge walkway to the skytrain, stop off at the pub, stumble home and back to the Maneeya in the morning bright and early in time for lunch...

[Briggsy]

Such an investigation by journalists and the subsequent expose could not have been achieved by the Thai media. The self-censorship, the automatic deference to the wealthy, the failure to ask the tough questions and the ownership of the TV channels leading to heavy-handed editorial interference would have shot any attempt to produce a similar programme out of the water. So I take my hat off to Channel 9 Australia for their hard work in providing specific allegations.

It was not surprising to note the response of the airline owner. Deny, deny, deny and when provided with irrefutable evidence, reply, "I am not aware of any such...." Standard behaviour for managers here.

I'm persuaded. I won't be flying One-Two-Go in the future. If they're still around!

[lazeeboy]

Such an investigation by journalists and the subsequent expose could not have been achieved by the Thai media. The self-censorship, the automatic deference to the wealthy, the failure to ask the tough questions and the ownership of the TV channels leading to heavy-handed editorial interference would have shot any attempt to produce a similar programme out of the water. So I take my hat off to Channel 9 Australia for their hard work in providing specific allegations.

It was not surprising to note the response of the airline owner. Deny, deny, deny and when provided with irrefutable evidence, reply, "I am not aware of any such...." Standard behaviour for managers here.

I'm persuaded. I won't be flying One-Two-Go in the future. If they're still around!

i wont fly with one two go again either

[jayjayjayjay]

Such an investigation by journalists and the subsequent expose could not have been achieved by the Thai media. The self-censorship, the automatic deference to the wealthy, the failure to ask the tough questions and the ownership of the TV channels leading to heavy-handed editorial interference would have shot any attempt to produce a similar programme out of the water. So I take my hat off to Channel 9 Australia for their hard work in providing specific allegations.

It was not surprising to note the response of the airline owner. Deny, deny, deny and when provided with irrefutable evidence, reply, "I am not aware of any such...." Standard behaviour for managers here.

I'm persuaded. I won't be flying One-Two-Go in the future. If they're still around!

You have to admit it is a pretty easy story to sensationalise. Having existing crew comments would be far more fair on all parties. I personally would prefer western crew than Indonesian or Thai crew, that's a personal preferrence. We do not know what complaints ex-emplyees hold, it will completely alter story, 60 minutes are sensationalisers, therefore there entire report looses weight. What I do support is 12GO employing more western piolots than Nok, Thai or AirAsia do.

[JetsetBkk]

It's clear to me that some of you posters didn't watch the video or you wouldn't be making such ill-informed comments.

[Scott]

Of course this report (video) shows only the side that the news people want us to see, but it is still a very telling video. It shows how poorly an investigation can be done here, it shows how ineffective local reports can be and how willing a whole lot of people are to put the public's safety at risk.

Maybe "everybody does it" I don't know, but the number of flight hours is the number of flight hours. Over the maximum is over the maximum.

Personally, I didn't think some of the comments about the pilot were necessary, but they are there.

This is why some people sue and can get huge amounts of money.

I have an aunt who hates flying. We always told her "when it's your time to go, you'll go." She replied, "Yes, but when it's the pilot's time to go, I don't want to go with him!"

[JetsetBkk]

From PPRuNe: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.ph...=15#post3763147

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Dec2007_news03.php

New tests for foreign pilots in wake of Phuket crash - AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

The One-Two-Go air tragedy at Phuket airport in September has prompted the Civil Aviation Department to require that all foreign pilots working in Thailand cooperate better with their Thai co-pilots. Deputy director-general of the department Wuthichai Singhamanee said that after the crash which killed 90 people in Phuket, officials observed One-Two-Go pilots during flights and found that the airline's many foreign pilots did not cooperate well with their Thai co-pilots.

The foreign pilots' working culture was different from that of the Thais, they said.

Thai pilots had to get to know each other before working well together, but foreigners did not need to do so, the official said.

The department is about to issue a new regulation requiring all foreign pilots working in Thailand to pass a test on their ability to cooperate with their fellow workers. The Crew Resource Management (CRM) test will focus on cooperation between pilots and co-pilots.

However, Mr Wuthichai denied that poor cooperation between the pilots was a factor behind the Sept 16 crash of the One-Two-Go flight, one of three budget airlines operating in Thailand.

Apart from the CRM test, the department will also require all foreign pilots working in Thailand to be tested on their knowledge of Thai aviation laws. The CRM and the Thai aviation law tests will apply to all foreign pilots working in Thailand.

At present, foreign pilots are only tested on flight simulators.

Mr Wuthichai added that aviation officials would also observe pilots in-flight on all other Thai airlines

Unfortunately, the link in the original article does not work (maybe expired), so can't confirm this story.

[A_Traveller]

This link will work for a few days, at first glance the article appears to have been transcribed accurately.

Article Link

Regards

[Optimodo]

scary me and my uncle were on that very same plane probably going the other way the flight before we had landed at bangkok airport and i was just on my way back to my apartment when i got a call from someone worried i may have been on the flight thinking it could have crashed in bangkok and knowing i had been in phuket and was going back to bangkok on that day...

as close as air traffic acidents come i think thats about as close as id like to be without actually being in one.... safest form of travel well i hope that semi-close call has put me back at the start of the 1 in however many million chance to die in a plane crash.

condolences to all who were involved in that fatal flight

[JetsetBkk]

This link will work for a few days, at first glance the article appears to have been transcribed accurately.

Article Link

Regards

Thanks. I think the author of the original post copied the URL by hand and missed out a bit.

[Supaporn]

Seems like a total misdirection to me. Can't think of any other way to directly implicate foreign pilots -so call it a CRM issue and target ONLY the foreign pilots. That in itself is the antithesis of CRM. Ahhh the Thai DCA - alive and well.

Can they not factually identify and rectify the apparent causes of the accident and move to fix them - even if they lie within? OOPS! Sorry - TiT

[JetsetBkk]

Seems like a total misdirection to me. Can't think of any other way to directly implicate foreign pilots

Yes, and this bit implies that Thai aviation laws are different or stricter () than in the rest of the world:

the department will also require all foreign pilots working in Thailand to be tested on their knowledge of Thai aviation laws.

Or perhaps they mean:

"if the boss of the company you work for tells you that you must fly a plane even though you have already exceeded the allowed number of flight hours for that month, you must fly the plane and not tell anyone about it."

[Tony Clifton]

Seems like a total misdirection to me. Can't think of any other way to directly implicate foreign pilots

Yes, and this bit implies that Thai aviation laws are different or stricter () than in the rest of the world:

the department will also require all foreign pilots working in Thailand to be tested on their knowledge of Thai aviation laws.

Or perhaps they mean:

"if the boss of the company you work for tells you that you must fly a plane even though you have already exceeded the allowed number of flight hours for that month, you must fly the plane and not tell anyone about it."

That's how I read it.

[grantbkk]

A Thai aviation agency investigating an airplane crash. If it wasn't such a tragedy it would be funny. Next they will want nuclear power plants.

[david96]

I wouldn't take investigative journalism by Australian reporters very seriously. It's rare to spot them anywhere but the rooftop of the Maneeya Center with the Bangkok Sports Club in the backround reporting "live" from Thailand! Bridge walkway to the skytrain, stop off at the pub, stumble home and back to the Maneeya in the morning bright and early in time for lunch...

You are quite correct. There was only one Australian killed in the accident so you might ask why Australian CH9 film crew were interested. Message clear "Australians do not fly on asian airlines fly only with Qantas or Jetstar"

Australian media is generally biased when it comes to reporting in SE Asia.

[Gravelrash]

I wouldn't take investigative journalism by Australian reporters very seriously. It's rare to spot them anywhere but the rooftop of the Maneeya Center with the Bangkok Sports Club in the backround reporting "live" from Thailand! Bridge walkway to the skytrain, stop off at the pub, stumble home and back to the Maneeya in the morning bright and early in time for lunch...

You are quite correct. There was only one Australian killed in the accident so you might ask why Australian CH9 film crew were interested. Message clear "Australians do not fly on asian airlines fly only with Qantas or Jetstar"

Australian media is generally biased when it comes to reporting in SE Asia.

I take it you have booked you and your familys next holiday on 1-2-GO?

I somewhat doubt the Australian media in totality are advocates for Qantas (if they had a similar accident they would be after them), and like in most western countries they can say what they like, but are well aware can be sued if they get it completely wrong. Never the less keep on believing that all is fine with local low cost airways.