Internet Business, Need Workpermit?

[oMega69]

Hi,

If a whant to start to do business over internet from my homepage and sell stuff from Thailand to England, can a do this legal without a workpermit ?

Thanks 4 Replys.

[sohn]

Simple answer is

If you working in Thiland, then you need a work permit.

But bet loads don't have one.

Put it this way, what would you do, if the police come knocking on your door.?

say your not working just doing things on the internet!!!!!!

[oMega69]

<br />Simple answer is<br />If you working in Thiland, then you need a work permit.<br />But bet loads don't have one.<br />Put it this way, what would you do, if the police come knocking on your door.?<br />say your not working just doing things on the internet!!!!!!<br /><br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

Yes I see your point ! . , so its quite bulletproof then ! .

[sohn]

You never answered the question.

What you going to do.?

Nothing is bulletproof in Thailand. when it comes to the law.

Edited October 3, 2007 by sohn

[oMega69]

<You never answered the question. What you going to do.? Nothing is bulletproof in Thailand. when it comes to the law.

well i see your point again But the thing is its a low risk thing if doing it in a big picture. . and ofcourse you dont say you working if yest sitting at the internet if mr police take a entry.

But any how just overseen the system dont need to work anymore becuse stay on retaire money . thanks any way for reply.

[naka]

May I just ask what language your website will be in ?

Naka.

Edited October 3, 2007 by naka

[Crossy]

The usual answer to the question "can I work over the 'net without a work permit" is to remain under the radar, tell nobody what you're doing and you'll be fine, as others have said. So what if the cops come knocking, you're surfing the net, not illegal (yet).

BUT (and this is a big but)

You will be selling and shipping stuff from Thailand. Since in order to make any money you're likely going to be sending a LOT of stuff your local post office will soon suss what you're up to. This information will become public knowledge very rapidly and it only takes one miffed neighbour to shop you to the authorities. QED

A better model would possibly be for your Thai wife (partner, boyfriend) to do all the visible donkey work, handle suppliers etc. You can do the online stuff, just make sure your name is not associated with the business in any way shape or form.

No warranty is implied or inferred, YMMV.

[simon43]

May I just ask what language your website will be in ?

Naka.

[\quote]

[oMega69]

well have outher planes now ., moving to South Korea insteed .., to hoot here . . take care guys!

[Aussietraveller]

Good luck to you.

in 3.5 hrs, you went from setting up an internet based export business in Thailand, to throwing that all in and moving to South Korea.

I hope the losses that you incurred in R&D for your Thai business did not set you back too much.

There must be some amazing opportunities available in South Korea then?

C'mon...give us a clue as to what you plan to do in Sth Korea?

[VBF]

Good luck to you.

in 3.5 hrs, you went from setting up an internet based export business in Thailand, to throwing that all in and moving to South Korea.

I hope the losses that you incurred in R&D for your Thai business did not set you back too much.

There must be some amazing opportunities available in South Korea then?

C'mon...give us a clue as to what you plan to do in Sth Korea?

Become a professional troll perhaps?

[jstumbo]

I really don't see why it would be a problem to run an interent business from Thailand. I come into Thailand every month for business. I work for a US importer, and I come in to check progress of orders, talk about new orders and just generally keep tabs with the factory. I assume that I don't need a WP for this, just a business visa, since that is what I have been doing for the last 3 years. I come in to visit the factories we do business with and perform business functions.

If I was doing a Internet business, I could still go to the factories, tell them to ship the products to the US, and everything would be the same. Just I would not leave the country. I could work on the website, and have someone in the US do the actual shipment of the product to the end user. I dont see how the government could ever figure out what I was doing. I cant see the factory saying anything. As far as they are concerned, I come into the country, do business and leave.

Now if he is shipping separate items to end users from Thailand, they might catch on. But I would think that would be quite expensive to be shipping stuff around the world from Thailand, unless they are big ticket items.

Jim

[A_Traveller]

You're not going to like this but on the basis of the description you've given then I think, under Thai law, you do need a WP. A B2 visa, which I'll assume you are using, allows you to look for business but not to participate. The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

/edit/ Just to expand on this, if you are coming to Thailand regularly, then actively visiting suppliers, and being part of the decision making process {i.e. Quality control, design, shipping requirements} then I think a case could be made for a WP requirement. Since you are using a B2 visa you are, like many, taking advantage of the un-joined up government machine. The visa is issued, presumably, by application of a Thai entity. Presently no cross-check is made to see if an accompanying WP has been issued, and in most cases the Embassy {or Consulate} will reissue without concern {it's not their bailiwick}.//

Regards

/edit PS This is no way a criticism of you or your company but an observation as to how the WP process {doesn't} function//

Edited October 3, 2007 by A_Traveller

[jstumbo]

You're not going to like this but on the basis of the description you've given then I think, under Thai law, you do need a WP. A B2 visa, which I'll assume you are using, allows you to look for business but not to participate. The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

/edit/ Just to expand on this, if you are coming to Thailand regularly, then actively visiting suppliers, and being part of the decision making process {i.e. Quality control, design, shipping requirements} then I think a case could be made for a WP requirement. Since you are using a B2 visa you are, like many, taking advantage of the un-joined up government machine. The visa is issued, presumably, by application of a Thai entity. Presently no cross-check is made to see if an accompanying WP has been issued, and in most cases the Embassy {or Consulate} will reissue without concern {it's not their bailiwick}.//

Regards

/edit PS This is no way a criticism of you or your company but an observation as to how the WP process {doesn't} function//

For the first year I just came in on a visa waiver. Always checked business for the reason for the trip. They never said anything about needing a visa. I decided to get the visa because from what I read, I needed the visa. If they want to bust me for "working" in Thailand because I come in to check on the status of things and to look at new products and approve changes in packaging, then I will just move the $1,200,000+ monthly business to Malaysia and Indonesia with the rest of our production.

They would have to be crazy to make it so difficult for companies do business in Thailand. The factory does not employ me and they do not pay me, so who would be the sponsor? But I am getting OT now.

[Manchester]

You're not going to like this but on the basis of the description you've given then I think, under Thai law, you do need a WP. A B2 visa, which I'll assume you are using, allows you to look for business but not to participate. The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

/edit/ Just to expand on this, if you are coming to Thailand regularly, then actively visiting suppliers, and being part of the decision making process {i.e. Quality control, design, shipping requirements} then I think a case could be made for a WP requirement. Since you are using a B2 visa you are, like many, taking advantage of the un-joined up government machine. The visa is issued, presumably, by application of a Thai entity. Presently no cross-check is made to see if an accompanying WP has been issued, and in most cases the Embassy {or Consulate} will reissue without concern {it's not their bailiwick}.//

Regards

/edit PS This is no way a criticism of you or your company but an observation as to how the WP process {doesn't} function//

I will just move the $1,200,000+ monthly business to Malaysia and Indonesia with the rest of our production.

They would have to be crazy to make it so difficult for companies do business in Thailand. The factory does not employ me and they do not pay me, so who would be the sponsor? But I am getting OT now.

I,m confused. Your previous post stated you worked FOR an import company?

Now it can be your decision to move the factory production? At what cost?

[RickFarang]

Gotta remind you guys of the problems many gem buyers experienced a few years ago, when they were picked up for working without a permit. Or a few years prior to that, when a attendee at a professional conference was arrested and deported for working without a permit.

If you are not in strict conformance with the laws, you are open to prosecution should the winds change.

[sohn]

Spot on.

And one thing more, people just love to tell tales about you in Thailand.

zero trust.

[seppl04]

You're not going to like this but on the basis of the description you've given then I think, under Thai law, you do need a WP. A B2 visa, which I'll assume you are using, allows you to look for business but not to participate. The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

/edit/ Just to expand on this, if you are coming to Thailand regularly, then actively visiting suppliers, and being part of the decision making process {i.e. Quality control, design, shipping requirements} then I think a case could be made for a WP requirement. Since you are using a B2 visa you are, like many, taking advantage of the un-joined up government machine. The visa is issued, presumably, by application of a Thai entity. Presently no cross-check is made to see if an accompanying WP has been issued, and in most cases the Embassy {or Consulate} will reissue without concern {it's not their bailiwick}.//

Regards

/edit PS This is no way a criticism of you or your company but an observation as to how the WP process {doesn't} function//

For the first year I just came in on a visa waiver. Always checked business for the reason for the trip. They never said anything about needing a visa. I decided to get the visa because from what I read, I needed the visa. If they want to bust me for "working" in Thailand because I come in to check on the status of things and to look at new products and approve changes in packaging, then I will just move the $1,200,000+ monthly business to Malaysia and Indonesia with the rest of our production.

They would have to be crazy to make it so difficult for companies do business in Thailand. The factory does not employ me and they do not pay me, so who would be the sponsor? But I am getting OT now.

in fact they are crazy and they give a sh*** whether you move your biz or not

alas if it was so much better in Malaysia or Indonesia you would have gone there in the first place

[Prakanong]

You're not going to like this but on the basis of the description you've given then I think, under Thai law, you do need a WP. A B2 visa, which I'll assume you are using, allows you to look for business but not to participate. The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

/edit/ Just to expand on this, if you are coming to Thailand regularly, then actively visiting suppliers, and being part of the decision making process {i.e. Quality control, design, shipping requirements} then I think a case could be made for a WP requirement. Since you are using a B2 visa you are, like many, taking advantage of the un-joined up government machine. The visa is issued, presumably, by application of a Thai entity. Presently no cross-check is made to see if an accompanying WP has been issued, and in most cases the Embassy {or Consulate} will reissue without concern {it's not their bailiwick}.//

Regards

/edit PS This is no way a criticism of you or your company but an observation as to how the WP process {doesn't} function//

For the first year I just came in on a visa waiver. Always checked business for the reason for the trip. They never said anything about needing a visa. I decided to get the visa because from what I read, I needed the visa. If they want to bust me for "working" in Thailand because I come in to check on the status of things and to look at new products and approve changes in packaging, then I will just move the $1,200,000+ monthly business to Malaysia and Indonesia with the rest of our production.

They would have to be crazy to make it so difficult for companies do business in Thailand. The factory does not employ me and they do not pay me, so who would be the sponsor? But I am getting OT now.

When there was a box for business many of my colleagues travelling to thailand for meetings, training and conferences plus some cross monitoring work checked that box and no questions were ever asked.

As the singapore Thai Embassy only gives out single entry Biz Visa's nobody bothers - technically we should have one and technically we should also have a short term WP too for conferences if we speak or if we train people - nobody bothers.

I know quite a few other people at major MNC's in exactly the same position.

[Prakanong]

Gotta remind you guys of the problems many gem buyers experienced a few years ago, when they were picked up for working without a permit. Or a few years prior to that, when a attendee at a professional conference was arrested and deported for working without a permit.

If you are not in strict conformance with the laws, you are open to prosecution should the winds change.

Technically yes but can you imagine the conference business Thailand would lose if suddenly major speakers or KOL's at conferences were prosecuted or refused entry?

There are some major medical conferences coming up soon - I know for a fact some speakers will only be going on tourist visa's

I could say more but had better not!

I think everyone just plays the game. There was a quite famous case a few years back though when some people were refused visa's but given the person involved in the conference it can not be discussed

[jstumbo]

I,m confused. Your previous post stated you worked FOR an import company?

Now it can be your decision to move the factory production? At what cost?

Wood flooring importing into the US. We use factories in China, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, VietNam, and Sri Lanka that either produce a part of the flooring, or the finished product. We don't own the factories, just give them the specifications and purchase the product. I am the Director of Manufacturing. I am directly responsible for deciding which orders are sent to which factories. I can very easily without any cost to us (actually saving money because Thailand is the most expensive factories, but better quality), decide that I will not send any more orders to a factory in Thailand. Actually I am in the process of doing that with the Chinese factories because they have too many problems and I am tired of fighting with them. I actually find the factories in Thailand much easier to work with than the factories in China. The factories in China are always trying to cut corners to save a little money and not meet the specifications. I have people that work for me in the other countries, but not Thailand because I like to come to Thailand and deal with it in person because I like it there.

Those from the US may have heard of a couple of our customers; Lowes and The Home Depot. We produce flooring for other companies under their brand names, we also produce our brand which is carried in smaller retail outlets all over the US. We do architectural jobs also. Just finished a shipment of 4000m2 of flooring for some condo's and we are now having a Thai factory start on a 30,000m2 order for a large building project on the US east coast.

Edited October 4, 2007 by jstumbo

[Sunny Valentine]

The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

And thats the point. The Working regulations for foreigners here are such that (apart from possibly a few retired people on Holiday) nobody can fully comply with the regulations. Answering business Emails, phone calls to the company back home, updating your business homepage, working out while on holiday in Thailand (being a Sports pro), discussing possible future business with fellow tourists met by chance, advising your broker to buy or sell stocks, writing business plans, whatever you do here is often related to your business back home, and must be considered working, according to the definition and the regulations here.

But it does not end here: I seriously doubt that any WP holder here is not in permanent violations of his job description, or at least is regularly violating the work location regulations set up for him in his WP book, by attending business meetings at other companies, visiting other companies production sites, attending business lunches at restaurants, and on and on.

The regulations here in Thailand are such that IMHO NOBODY can adhere to them 100%, only partially, to a certain degree.

Where to draw the line? Who decides which of these violations are negligible, and which constitute a serious breach of regulations, resulting in fines and possible deportation?

The authorities? Labor office? (It has been reported here before a few times that people who planned or were doing "working over the Internet" have been contacting the Labor Office to be told somehow unofficially that thats ok). Common sense? (In Thailand?) The tourist or WP holder? thaivisa.com Elders or moderators?

I think there is a major problem here in Thailand, which also manifests itself in several other cases: The laws here are unclear and vague to such an extent that you cannot fully follow them.

Sunny

[mikethevigoman]

Hi,

If a whant to start to do business over internet from my homepage and sell stuff from Thailand to England, can a do this legal without a workpermit ?

Thanks 4 Replys.

keep it to yourself and if you do wel tell no one !..most people that have been caught here working illegally have been informed on by someone,.

[mikethevigoman]

well have outher planes now ., moving to South Korea insteed .., to hoot here . . take care guys!

On your own plane ?

Edited October 4, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[LivinLOS]

I,m confused. Your previous post stated you worked FOR an import company?

Now it can be your decision to move the factory production? At what cost?

Wood flooring importing into the US. We use factories in China, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, VietNam, and Sri Lanka that either produce a part of the flooring, or the finished product. We don't own the factories, just give them the specifications and purchase the product. I am the Director of Manufacturing. I am directly responsible for deciding which orders are sent to which factories. I can very easily without any cost to us (actually saving money because Thailand is the most expensive factories, but better quality), decide that I will not send any more orders to a factory in Thailand. Actually I am in the process of doing that with the Chinese factories because they have too many problems and I am tired of fighting with them. I actually find the factories in Thailand much easier to work with than the factories in China. The factories in China are always trying to cut corners to save a little money and not meet the specifications. I have people that work for me in the other countries, but not Thailand because I like to come to Thailand and deal with it in person because I like it there.

Those from the US may have heard of a couple of our customers; Lowes and The Home Depot. We produce flooring for other companies under their brand names, we also produce our brand which is carried in smaller retail outlets all over the US. We do architectural jobs also. Just finished a shipment of 4000m2 of flooring for some condo's and we are now having a Thai factory start on a 30,000m2 order for a large building project on the US east coast.

Almost without a doubt you are violating Thai law doing what you are doing in country without a WP..

But as others are pointing out, the law is written in a clearly ridiculous way.. And you would have a very hard time aquiring a WP without a lot of financial commitment. So almost everyone (including convention visitors) just break the laws. Thats fine until it isnt.

[rodcourt49]

You're not going to like this but on the basis of the description you've given then I think, under Thai law, you do need a WP. A B2 visa, which I'll assume you are using, allows you to look for business but not to participate. The regulations on WPs are intentionally wide ranging, indeed, only half in jest, they can be read to say answering your business emails on vacation would require one.

/edit/ Just to expand on this, if you are coming to Thailand regularly, then actively visiting suppliers, and being part of the decision making process {i.e. Quality control, design, shipping requirements} then I think a case could be made for a WP requirement. Since you are using a B2 visa you are, like many, taking advantage of the un-joined up government machine. The visa is issued, presumably, by application of a Thai entity. Presently no cross-check is made to see if an accompanying WP has been issued, and in most cases the Embassy {or Consulate} will reissue without concern {it's not their bailiwick}.//

Regards

/edit PS This is no way a criticism of you or your company but an observation as to how the WP process {doesn't} function//

I will just move the $1,200,000+ monthly business to Malaysia and Indonesia with the rest of our production.

They would have to be crazy to make it so difficult for companies do business in Thailand. The factory does not employ me and they do not pay me, so who would be the sponsor? But I am getting OT now.

I,m confused. Your previous post stated you worked FOR an import company?

Now it can be your decision to move the factory production? At what cost?

Why mention the BIG amount of gross income per month..big noting I expect !

[jstumbo]

in fact they are crazy and they give a sh*** whether you move your biz or not

alas if it was so much better in Malaysia or Indonesia you would have gone there in the first place

We already do business in many countries. One factory in Malaysia, two in Indonesia, one in Vietnam, one in Sri Lanka, two in Thailand, one in Kosovo, and two in China.

Another idea, if they are so strick on what is considered work and needing a WP, then what about the guys that supervise and check the quality when someone is buillding them a house? Would that be considered working when they check the progress of the house, when they check the quality of the house? If you look at the quality of a condo before you buy it, is that working?

[fire and ice]

And thats the point. The Working regulations for foreigners here are such that (apart from possibly a few retired people on Holiday) nobody can fully comply with the regulations. Answering business Emails, phone calls to the company back home, updating your business homepage, working out while on holiday in Thailand (being a Sports pro), discussing possible future business with fellow tourists met by chance, advising your broker to buy or sell stocks, writing business plans, whatever you do here is often related to your business back home, and must be considered working, according to the definition and the regulations here.

But it does not end here: I seriously doubt that any WP holder here is not in permanent violations of his job description, or at least is regularly violating the work location regulations set up for him in his WP book, by attending business meetings at other companies, visiting other companies production sites, attending business lunches at restaurants, and on and on.

The regulations here in Thailand are such that IMHO NOBODY can adhere to them 100%, only partially, to a certain degree.

Where to draw the line? Who decides which of these violations are negligible, and which constitute a serious breach of regulations, resulting in fines and possible deportation?

The authorities? Labor office? (It has been reported here before a few times that people who planned or were doing "working over the Internet" have been contacting the Labor Office to be told somehow unofficially that thats ok). Common sense? (In Thailand?) The tourist or WP holder? thaivisa.com Elders or moderators?

I think there is a major problem here in Thailand, which also manifests itself in several other cases: The laws here are unclear and vague to such an extent that you cannot fully follow them.

Sunny

If this is correct, then what possible purpose does a (temporary) business visa serve? Under what circumstances can it be required without a work permit? Or is there no purpose for one?

[llothar]

Export is not an Internet Business.

Having a website competition to thaivisa and living on ads might be one.

Or in my case i develop software that is sold over the internet. Everything is in Europe just sitting here and working (without client contacts). This seems to be legal in the same way as it is legal for an book writer to work on his manuscript in the holiday.

[Sunny Valentine]

Export is not an Internet Business.

Having a website competition to thaivisa and living on ads might be one.

Or in my case i develop software that is sold over the internet. Everything is in Europe just sitting here and working (without client contacts). This seems to be legal in the same way as it is legal for an book writer to work on his manuscript in the holiday.

It probably won't be prosecuted, but I can't see why this should be legal, according to the Thai law.

Sunny