Stick Vs Automatic

[Thaiboxer]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

[think_too_mut]

To convince me, it has to be coupled like: I will believe manual is better only to those who drive it and + tell everyone that a TV without remote control is more fun to watch.

[junkofdavid2]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

Is manual really more durable, and does it really have lower maintenance costs?

Why?

Does that therefore also mean that manual is better when buying a second hand car?

[Thaiboxer]

Yes, manuals are more durable than automatics. Automatic transmissions have various clutch bands and hydraulic fluid which controls the shifting, not to mention the torque converter which separates the engine from the gearbox. Automatics can overheat, especially if pulling a load or trying to work your way out of snow. Manuals only suffer heat where the clutch disk touches the engine's flywheel...the actual gearbox takes very little abuse when the clutch slips. A second hand car is risky anywhere but one with an auto is more likely to need costly repairs down the road.

[Crossy]

Is manual really more durable, and does it really have lower maintenance costs?

Why?

Does that therefore also mean that manual is better when buying a second hand car?

A manual box is significantly simpler inside than an auto, particularly a modern auto with electronic control thrown into the mix.

A manual can make all sorts of horrible noises and still soldier on, noises from an auto will probably stop the car and open your pocket.

When it fails a manual box can usually be pulled apart by Somchai Motors on his kitchen table, an auto requires clean, if not clean-room, conditions to avoid contamination of a very delicate hydraulic system.

I've had three auto cars over the years, two (in the West) were no real problem, the last (which I have vowed will be my last ever auto) was in Thailand and was a nightmare money pit.

I much prefer driving a manual (with rear wheel drive of course), as a Brit manual boxes are still the norm at home, an auto is 'unusual' (although becoming less so), my new truck is a manual with a nice lumpy diesel.

Autos also sap your valuable engine power and tend to use more fuel.

The only advantage of an auto box is in traffic.

Edited October 20, 2007 by Crossy

[elkangorito]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

Couldn't agree with you more.

I've owned & driven manuals for nine out of ten vehicles. The tenth vehicle was an automatic. Here's what I think are the pros & cons for both;

Manual - pros.

1] More control over the vehicle, especially with assisted braking & rpm control. Much safer than an auto (if you know anything about driving).

2] Low maintenance costs - change the gearbox oil every few years. Treat the clutch nicely (don't "ride" it) & you may be unlucky enough to have to replace it once in ten or more years.

3] More economical than an auto - no "slipage" or "slack" between the engine output & the drive train.

4] Vehicle can still be easily driven even if, for any reason, the clutch fails (Syncromesh is a wonderful thing).

Manual - cons.

1] Arm gets a bit sore in heavy traffic.

Auto - pros.

1] Arm does not get sore in heavy traffic.

Auto - cons.

1] Relaxing to drive. No need to think. Can easily go to sleep.

2] Less control over the vehicle - very little assisted braking ability. Slow to react. Needs to be over-riden manually in order to achieve any real performance.

3] High maintenance costs - need to change the transmission fluid+filters every 6 months. This is only true for an old auto transmission. Most of the wonderful "new" auto transmissions are sealed "throw away" items...you can't even change the transmission fluid. Very expensive. Of course, the old rule applies - "Pay peanuts, get monkeys".

4] Less economical than a manual - at high speed (+80kph), some autos mechanically lock, effectively eliminating any engine/drive train slipage. At low speeds however, significant slipage & poor fuel economy.

5] If the auto transmission fails, you are "dead in the water".

Automatics should be banned.

[nidge]

Sorry to go against the grain, but i prefer automatics.

I drove manual cars for 17 years and yes they are more fun to drive, economical, easier to repair and offer more control.

But i now have an automatic and i love it because i no longer need to wring every last ounce of power from the engine. My driving style has become more relaxed and i have one thing less to worry about inside the car so i can put more attention towards what is going on outside the car. As for economy, perhaps it is more expensive to drive but comparing petrol prices between here and the uk i don't worry too much about that.

[PeaceBlondie]

Out of almost 20 cars, I generally preferred stick shift manual gearboxes, but several of my automatic cars had over 300 cubic inch V8's, so the power loss was insignificant. And those were in the days when Dave Smith at the local garage could rebuild one in two days with a hangover. My last automatic was a jewel, probably a four speed, in a compact car with 150 horsepower.

When I learned that Ferrari installs its Grand Prix-designed autmatic in its big V12 cars, I decided the power loss must no longer matter.

[toptuan]

Manual preference here. Over a period of 10 years, had a Toyota Camry and Toyota Forerunner, both normally automatics, but special-ordered to get the manual transmission. I also like the more feel of "direct connection" to the RPM and the better gas economy.

Exception:

If I was a city-only driver (big city), I might reconsider. Occasionally when I drove downtown in heavy traffic (in Seattle, built on 7 hills with stoplights at every block) it got a but "busy."

[Insight]

I prefer manual, however one thing I've found in Thailand is that manual cars seem to be associated with the cheaper end of the product line. I couldn't get a Mazda 3 2.0 sport with manual, so had to opt for the automatic (with semi-auto).

Only 4 gears and lacking a clutch - not that sporty really.

[Lormaak]

Manual 100%. Never used anything else in the UK. Just for the fact that I can tell the car what to do, it doesn't have to guess my intentions from how hard I slam the pedal. I appreciate things like appropriate downshifting before a corner or an overtaking manoeuver. Autos lag when you floor the pedal. As has been said, manuals are more fun especially when it comes to smoking tyres.

I reckon autos encourage sloppy habits: Driving go kart style, left foot-brake, right foot-accelerator (seen this a lot here). Also many other annoying habits like using a phone, fiddling with the radio, putting on make-up, and generally not paying attention to the task at hand.

However, I drive an auto here (don't know what I was thinking when I bought the thing). It's not all bad though. My main types of driving are journey to work in BKK traffic (in a manual: 1-2 changes all the way) and visits out of town (top gear highway cruising) so the auto serves me well. I certainly wouldn't want to rag a car around twisty country lanes here; I've seen far too many idiotic overtaking manoeuvers.

I do now use the phone and fiddle with the radio when driving, so I expect some of the expletives I've yelled in the past back at me. I'm gonna think hard about the next car I buy here, whereas in the UK it's gotta be a manual unless...

...What about a semi auto paddle shift? (If only they didn't cost a fortune and had minimal lag.)

[Thaiboxer]

I would imagine the semi-auto paddle shift (found on some "supercars") would probably be close or perhaps equal to the acceleration you'd get with a manual gearbox. With auto technology these days, the stick in some cases may not be the quickest off the line. However, the more complicated these things get, the harder/more expensive they are to repair.

My older brother is a salesman and drives all over South Florida for a living and has recently purchased an automatic Toyota Yaris. The little car gets about 40mpg on the highway and he simply couldn't be bothered to shift manually anymore with the frequent traffic jams he encounters. With the cost of labor in the States my older brother was lucky to secure a lifetime powertrain warranty on his vehicle which will save him a bundle in the long run.

[Insight]

The semi-auto on the Mazda is okay, but as mentioned, only 4 gears and - at times - not too responsive.

I sometimes forget I've left it in manual at the toll way, so therefore forget to shift up when moving off leaving it red-lining all over the place. It never seems to respond quickly to the first tap up afterwards.

Still, it's good having the option. Handy when quickly needing to drop it down one or two gears to overtake.

[otherstuff1957]

I've always preferred manual transmissions. Probably just because I grew up with them! We had a VW bug and van when I was just learning to drive.

[MikeRay]

In Thailand and especially BKK automatic. Thailand because I´m used to drive on the right side and BKK because of traffic jams / stop and go traffic.

When I was driving a high mileage a year with a lot of traffic jams/Stop and go I always preffered an automatic to stick shift. Don´t need it in these days and the gas consumption is lower with stickshift so I go for that.

[calibanjr.]

Not relevant to Thailand, really, but standards (manuals) are a MUST in the snow. There are situations where you have to be creative with the momentum back and forth with the car when it's stuck, and it's always advisable IMO to avoid braking and use gears to vary speeds in slippery conditions.

Also, when you get an old beater and/or a dodgy battery, the old running "jump start" is a manual specialty!

I'm pretty experienced driving old dodgy cars in the snowy realms, need a manual there. Here (Chiang Mai), I drive a manual (well, a Honda Wave125 really).

Edited October 20, 2007 by calibanjr.

[thai4u]

Auto .

if you just drive normal ; no mud,no snow or any other speciel condition , so automatic.

auto is little bit more expensuve to run but the comfort..ha...thats something that manual can never give..

auto needs more attention and care, take it to service and change oil and whatever need and thats all.

if you try to save few bahts here and there..go for manual.no question at all.

[mattias33]

No question automatic is more comfortable. But of course also a bit more limited when it comes to for instans island-driving with high hills and bad roads. Then again its up to the driver to consider every limitations of his/her vehicle.

Pricewise i would like to add the factor of the many drivers that dont realy know how to gear an engine. I stopped counting the times im sitting in a car thinking "hope the plan is to change gear before a cylinder blows", with drivers that either have serious hearingproblems or dont know anything about viscousity of oil, enginetemperatures, and so on. High rpms in high temperature climat sure is a enginekiller and a fuelconsumtion raiser. In those cases it might be cheaper with a automatic, at least in the long run.

[marquess]

I took my test in an auto having already had a Jag before hand, and have never driven a manual my only regret on the matter was that I couldn't own a Morris Traveller. Still doesn't putting an auto into neutral in traffic helps with fuel costs?

[mikethevigoman]

To convince me, it has to be coupled like: I will believe manual is better only to those who drive it and + tell everyone that a TV without remote control is more fun to watch.

I agree, ive only got 2 feet, i only want 2 pedals ! ,.how are you supposed to drive,eat and use a phone if you have to change gear ! bloody terrible,.i can think of a lot better things to do with my left hand rather than changing gear,.i hate manual,. period,

[mikethevigoman]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

Couldn't agree with you more.

I've owned & driven manuals for nine out of ten vehicles. The tenth vehicle was an automatic. Here's what I think are the pros & cons for both;

Manual - pros.

1] More control over the vehicle, especially with assisted braking & rpm control. Much safer than an auto (if you know anything about driving).

2] Low maintenance costs - change the gearbox oil every few years. Treat the clutch nicely (don't "ride" it) & you may be unlucky enough to have to replace it once in ten or more years.

3] More economical than an auto - no "slipage" or "slack" between the engine output & the drive train.

4] Vehicle can still be easily driven even if, for any reason, the clutch fails (Syncromesh is a wonderful thing).

Manual - cons.

1] Arm gets a bit sore in heavy traffic.

Auto - pros.

1] Arm does not get sore in heavy traffic.

Auto - cons.

1] Relaxing to drive. No need to think. Can easily go to sleep.

2] Less control over the vehicle - very little assisted braking ability. Slow to react. Needs to be over-riden manually in order to achieve any real performance.

3] High maintenance costs - need to change the transmission fluid+filters every 6 months. This is only true for an old auto transmission. Most of the wonderful "new" auto transmissions are sealed "throw away" items...you can't even change the transmission fluid. Very expensive. Of course, the old rule applies - "Pay peanuts, get monkeys".

4] Less economical than a manual - at high speed (+80kph), some autos mechanically lock, effectively eliminating any engine/drive train slipage. At low speeds however, significant slipage & poor fuel economy.

5] If the auto transmission fails, you are "dead in the water".

Automatics should be banned.

Manuals should be banned, how is a woman supposed to do her make up, put a belt on a kid steady the groceries areound corners whilst changing gear ! no its the manual that should be banned ! ps, Edited October 20, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

This is a good one, this wil be like smoking versus non smoking ! ill start off with, I HATE MANUALS,!

[mikethevigoman]

Hi Folks...with many new thaivisa members, I thought I'd do this little survey again:

Which type of transmission do you prefer to drive...stick shift or automatic and why?

For me, I prefer the stick shift. In addition to its longevity and lower maintenance costs, it's more fun to drive. You have more direct control over the RPM's and it makes you feel closer to the vehicle. I'm on my fifth vehicle; my first and fourth vehicles were automatics. It took me a while to get comfy with my second car since I went to college in a hilly part of my home state, but once I got the hang of it, I've always liked manual transmissions. My fourth vehicle was given to us, so I can't complain there. Even with the BKK traffic, I like the stick and simply sit there in neutral until traffic starts moving again.

Also, I drive an oldie which is rear wheel drive and those have the advantage of not having to worry about those CV joints/universal boots going bad.

Let's hear what you guys think

Is manual really more durable, and does it really have lower maintenance costs?

Why?

Does that therefore also mean that manual is better when buying a second hand car?

rubbish, i have been in the motor trade all my life, i can count on one hand the number of autos we had to rebuild, as for clutches we did hundreds,.the later autos are almost non problematic, manual gearboxes are more unreliable ,.ask nissan Edited October 20, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Mobi]

Been driving for 44 years.

God knows how many millions of miles I have driven and maybe hundreds of cars I have owned during that time - from pre war Standard 10's to BMW 7 series and just about everything in between.

I reckon I had my first automatic in a BMW 3 series convertible back in the early 90's and have never used a manual since.

Whether it is being stuck in London, Bangkok or Pattaya traffic, or cruising down the world's motorways, there is nothing more comfortable and relaxing than to have a powerful engine and an automatic gear box.

Right now I run a 3 litre Fortuner auto and a Jazz auto and a Nissan pick up manual. Even the little Jazz goes pretty good with it's auto gear box, and There's always the 7 speed techtronics if I need to accelerate out of trouble. But the pick-up manual is a real pain to drive.

My wife had never driven a manual gear car, and had to go and have special lessons before she could drive the pick-up

I guess manual gear boxes are great for you young Turks out there, but I'm betting that most of you will switch to auto as your hair lines recede, and you realise there's more to life than hugging a gear stick - like cuddling the girl next to you for starters.

[mikethevigoman]

Been driving for 44 years.

God knows how many millions of miles I have driven and maybe hundreds of cars I have owned during that time - from pre war Standard 10's to BMW 7 series and just about everything in between.

I reckon I had my first automatic in a BMW 3 series convertible back in the early 90's and have never used a manual since.

Whether it is being stuck in London, Bangkok or Pattaya traffic, or cruising down the world's motorways, there is nothing more comfortable and relaxing than to have a powerful engine and an automatic gear box.

Right now I run a 3 litre Fortuner auto and a Jazz auto and a Nissan pick up manual. Even the little Jazz goes pretty good with it's auto gear box, and There's always the 7 speed techtronics if I need to accelerate out of trouble. But the pick-up manual is a real pain to drive.

My wife had never driven a manual gear car, and had to go and have special lessons before she could drive the pick-up

I guess manual gear boxes are great for you young Turks out there, but I'm betting that most of you will switch to auto as your hair lines recede, and you realise there's more to life than hugging a gear stick - like cuddling the girl next to you for starters.

Well i nearly added your last line to my comments mobi ,.funny that,.but you are right,its just so tedious and to be honest it takes a lot more concentration to drive a manual, especially in traffic,.no, for me its can, but dont want to,.

[matter]

Been driving for 44 years.

God knows how many millions of miles I have driven and maybe hundreds of cars I have owned during that time - from pre war Standard 10's to BMW 7 series and just about everything in between.

I reckon I had my first automatic in a BMW 3 series convertible back in the early 90's and have never used a manual since.

Whether it is being stuck in London, Bangkok or Pattaya traffic, or cruising down the world's motorways, there is nothing more comfortable and relaxing than to have a powerful engine and an automatic gear box.

Right now I run a 3 litre Fortuner auto and a Jazz auto and a Nissan pick up manual. Even the little Jazz goes pretty good with it's auto gear box, and There's always the 7 speed techtronics if I need to accelerate out of trouble. But the pick-up manual is a real pain to drive.

My wife had never driven a manual gear car, and had to go and have special lessons before she could drive the pick-up

I guess manual gear boxes are great for you young Turks out there, but I'm betting that most of you will switch to auto as your hair lines recede, and you realise there's more to life than hugging a gear stick - like cuddling the girl next to you for starters.

Well i nearly added your last line to my comments mobi ,.funny that,.but you are right,its just so tedious and to be honest it takes a lot more concentration to drive a manual, especially in traffic,.no, for me its can, but dont want to,.

Foot to the floor Auto!!!

Why change gear yourself.... it just slows you down!!!!!

[mikethevigoman]

Been driving for 44 years.

God knows how many millions of miles I have driven and maybe hundreds of cars I have owned during that time - from pre war Standard 10's to BMW 7 series and just about everything in between.

I reckon I had my first automatic in a BMW 3 series convertible back in the early 90's and have never used a manual since.

Whether it is being stuck in London, Bangkok or Pattaya traffic, or cruising down the world's motorways, there is nothing more comfortable and relaxing than to have a powerful engine and an automatic gear box.

Right now I run a 3 litre Fortuner auto and a Jazz auto and a Nissan pick up manual. Even the little Jazz goes pretty good with it's auto gear box, and There's always the 7 speed techtronics if I need to accelerate out of trouble. But the pick-up manual is a real pain to drive.

My wife had never driven a manual gear car, and had to go and have special lessons before she could drive the pick-up

I guess manual gear boxes are great for you young Turks out there, but I'm betting that most of you will switch to auto as your hair lines recede, and you realise there's more to life than hugging a gear stick - like cuddling the girl next to you for starters.

Well i nearly added your last line to my comments mobi ,.funny that,.but you are right,its just so tedious and to be honest it takes a lot more concentration to drive a manual, especially in traffic,.no, for me its can, but dont want to,.

Foot to the floor Auto!!!

Why change gear yourself.... it just slows you down!!!!!

I dont know what happened ! i just went to change gear !

[asiaworld]

Vote both hands for MANUAL . But you should've seen me , when i started . It wasn't always like this ! i never went to driving schools, so i learned on the field, first years i HATED manuals (btw. i drove plenty of different cars by now,both manu&auto) .You shoul've seenme struggle .Anyways loved autos , until i actually mastered the art of DRIVING .. Also helped the fact, that the only 'accident' i had was on rental(drove plenty of them) AUTO ! Well nothing serious, just couldn't brake on time & helped the car in front of me ! Now if anything else is irrelevant, the general weakness of brakes on autos made me fully converted, so now, when i do drive Auto, i actually Have to Put More Effort,

due to the fact, that you are not fully in control of a vechicle ! Makes you relaxed, until you hit something/someone, or get hit by something, because it was oh so relaxing you wasn't concentrating .. Than there's beautiful art of using the manual gearbox for breaking ! ! i am the guy who whizzes past most of you on either town , or a highway, but when shit hits the fan i am sure, that my Manual will come to a screeching halt twice as fast,as any Auto possibly could, even with well adjusted handbrake, and i can vouch for it saved me a good many times, here in Thailand especially !

[lewishamilton]

I prefer a manual transmission because it gives me the most precise control over how the power is transferred from the engine to the wheels.

[dominique355]

There is an alternative to both, manual and automatic gear. Ferrari introduced it, I believe in 1989, in its Formula 1 car. The car has a "normal" gear box and a "normal" clutch. But the driver has no longer a clutch pedal nor a shift stick. Instead he has two paddles behind the steering wheel. Pulling the right one shifts up, pulling the left paddle shifts down.

The obvious advantages are that the driver has his hands on the steering wheel at all times. Important especially when heavily breaking and turning into a corner. Secondly, the shifting is much faster and more precise. The driving style, in particular the breaking changes. The driver breaks and when he has reached the speed and the point to turn in, he pulls the left paddle several times until he is in the right gear. That's done in a fraction of a second. Needless to say that all other teams quickly copied the system.

Now, we start seeing this system in many road cars. Combined with a system, where the gears are selected "automatically", when the corresponding program is selected, this gear changing system combines the best of two worlds: Manual when you like, automatic, say when in downtown traffic.

Volkswagen has developed the system one step further. They built two gearboxes, one for the rations 1,3 and 5 and another for the rations 2,4 and 6. The two gears are linked with two clutches. When you start, gearbox 1 is in first gear one and gearbox 2 in second gear. When you shift, you simply open the first clutch and close the second. Almost seamless shifting and blinding fast. AUDI offers the same gearbox for its 4-cylinder models. I drove the TT with this gearbox, it's sensational.

If I had the choice, that's the system I would choose.

I had a big AUDI with a V8 engine and an automatic transmission. It had also the shift paddles, but this merely selected the ratio of the automatic gearbox. Way to slow for sportive driving. I almost never used.

Another system is the CVT (continuous variation transmission), such as in the Honda Jazz. Fun when in manual mode with 7 ratios. The engine sound is kind of strange, because the engine speed is not what you expect. The engine keeps its speed while the gear ratio is continuously changing.