A Friends Response To The Immigration Request In Pattaya

[Sunbelt Asia]

A friend sent me and gave me permission to post it on Thaivisa. How many other people have this feeling in Pattaya? My understanding, only Pattaya is enforcing this regulation.

Yet another Thai government outrage!

I read with no small interest the front-page article in an English language newspaper locally distributed that the Thailand Immigration offices will now be requiring those foreigners living permanently in Thailand and renewing their one-year visas to supply complete credit card information for at least one valid credit card. I visited my local office and was told this is true by the information clerk.

As one who has experienced five cases of credit and ATM card fraud, and ALL of them relating to Thailand but never the U.S., Canada, Brazil, Mexico, or St. Croix where I have also used those cards, I assiduously avoid credit card usage here. When I relocated for what I thought was a permanent basis to Thailand I canceled all but one card. Some had credit lines as high as $25,000 USD. I have used the remaining card only once here in three years and that with strict documentation so any fraud could be easily traced. Like most expatriates I find that cash transactions or intra-bank transfers afford the most secure means of avoiding credit card fraud.

For the Thailand Immigration Department to now require full credit card information for a visa in a land where card fraud and government corruption is rampant is a complete outrage! I know of nowhere else where this is a requirement. It is sufficient to require proof of income, and even THERE the Thai government is wantonly discriminatory in it’s practice; various nationalities have varying income requirements as if living here would cost varying amounts according to one’s race or country of origin. To open the floodgates to a tide of credit card fraud is insane! The card-issuing companies will be canceling in droves when informed, and where will that leave the Thailand supporting individual seeking visa renewal? The credit card suppliers use readily available credit background checks and income verification before issuing a card, and they do so without exposure to the kind of abuse this measure will invite. These means are also available to the Thai authorities and should be employed. A simple example of the extreme nature of the credit card problem here is that this country is so corrupt many exporters will not even accept credit card orders from Thailand!

Over a period of several years I have invested many millions of baht supporting my Thai wife and sons, building a lovely home, and contributing daily to the well being of the local and general Thai economy by my expenditures here in the expectation of a fulfilling retirement. I absolutely refuse to submit to this moronic indignity, injustice, and potential nightmare! The Thai authorities have pushed the envelope TOO far. I would and will sooner sell the house, give the family back what they brought to me (the shirts on their backs), and relocate to a country where the government at least has their collective heads outside their collective colons!

Paul

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Whats your thoughts?

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[sriracha john]

Also here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=150126&hl=

Pattaya Immigration New Visa Rules Changes

[Naam]

Whats your thoughts?

don't fight it, think of alternatives.

-ask your bank to issue an additional card with a limit of 10 dollars,

-submit a card which has not been activated,

-open an account and get an ATMcard. after that withdraw everything except the minimum need to keep the account active.

[sonicdragon]

Remove the CVV number from the back of the card as suggested by someone in the thread quoted above

[astral]

-ask your bank to issue an additional card with a limit of 10 dollars,

Impractical.

My bank will not send cards to Thailand.

[tropo]

A friend sent me and gave me permission to post it on Thaivisa. How many other people have this feeling in Pattaya? My understanding, only Pattaya is enforcing this regulation.

. I would and will sooner sell the house, give the family back what they brought to me (the shirts on their backs), and relocate to a country where the government at least has their collective heads outside their collective colons!

Paul

-------------------------------------------

Whats your thoughts?

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

This guy is a bit extreme. He'd leave his family first.

It's quite easy to monitor activity on a credit card online and report anything unusual.

Some people worry far too much.

[andy1308]

As pointed out in the other thread it's probably breaking the terms and conditions of the issuing company to provide the ATM and/or credit card information that is apparently being sought here. Someone should bring this to the attention of Visa or Mastercard and see what they have to say. I don't think they'll be entirely happy.

[tropo]

-ask your bank to issue an additional card with a limit of 10 dollars,

Impractical.

My bank will not send cards to Thailand.

I get a friend back at home to send mine.

[ZZZ]

As the purpose of immigration asking for this information is just to have some further proof that the applicant have the means to live in Thailand it should be enough to get your bank to write a letter that you have a credit/ATM card.

I see no reason that they should need to have a copy of the card information, a letter from the bank that you have a card should fulfill the purpose of this request.

[Daffy D]

This is a wind-up right?

Having a credit card is NO proof of financial security; in fact most of the credit card holders I knew in a former life were well into their credit limit. So instead of the card being a proof of affluence it was an easy way to get into debt, which is what the credit card companies really want anyway.

I don’t have a credit card anymore, I found that in LOS they were not necessary and as they expired I did not bother to renew them.

Been living happily for years without them, something less to worry about.

D.D.

:-)

[fritiof]

No sane person would give away hes/hers credit card information, and as said before, its a violation against the credit card companys Terms of use.

It´s not filling its purpose either because you don´t really prove that you have money by having a valid ATM card, only that you have a credit card connected to a account.

This cannot be inforced, the idiotic officer who thought it up should perhaps reconcider.

[pontious]

I agree it is a stupid, annoying rule, but if you are asked for it to renew your extension you will have too.

You just have to make sure the copy you give ( if asked ) leaves you open to least exposure.

ATM cards seem the best bet.

Sunbelt - you started the topic - as experts in this field - do we have any choice?

I think it can be enforced - if they say no card no extension what choice do you have?

Edited November 7, 2007 by pontious

[kash]

Credit card frauds who cares? It happen me twice a year as I travel extensively, just sending an email to my bank and they credit my account with whatever is not authorized by me, and thats how the visa/mc/ae system works, why worry about something that is dumbproof? And if you are really paranoid, use a debet card, 110% dumbproof.

[Maestro]

...do we have any choice?

As I see it, the question is this: what avenue of appeal does an applicant for extension of stay have when an immigration officer blatantly and grossly abuses his authority?

--

Maestro

[JR Texas]

...do we have any choice?

As I see it, the question is this: what avenue of appeal does an applicant for extension of stay have when an immigration officer blatantly and grossly abuses his authority?

--

Maestro

Even though most people know I often say negative things about Thailand, what I am about to say is totally true. Several years ago an immigration official in Pattaya asked for my credit card information along with my foreign bank statement (not local bank statement) as proof of my income. They made a copy of my card, front and back. They made a copy of my bank statement showing enough money to make a crook salivate.

A few weeks later, I was contacted by Morgan Stanley.......they asked me if I was in Europe.......I told them "no." They said some person was using my card to purchase all kinds of things. It became clear to me what had happened: Some corrupt immigration official gave/sold the information to a another person who used the information to make a fake card.....who then sold it to another person who used it to buy things.

BEWARE OF THIS SCAM.

Luckily, I am now in China and free from abusive, rude, and corrupt immigration officials. Maybe it is time for the expat community to stop "bending over" and taking the abuse that Thailand is dishing out.

[Manchester]

Whats your thoughts?

don't fight it, think of alternatives.

-ask your bank to issue an additional card with a limit of 10 dollars,

-submit a card which has not been activated,

-open an account and get an ATMcard. after that withdraw everything except the minimum need to keep the account active.

Excellent advice.

I am personally not ( YET ) affected by this due to my work etc but i have emailed the Brit Embassy to complain. I think nationals of other countries should also complain to their respective embassies.

I believe this is a clear abuse of finacial information.

[fritiof]

Credit card frauds who cares? It happen me twice a year as I travel extensively, just sending an email to my bank and they credit my account with whatever is not authorized by me, and thats how the visa/mc/ae system works, why worry about something that is dumbproof? And if you are really paranoid, use a debet card, 110% dumbproof.

But if you giva away this informatoin together with your signature, you are giving your permission for the reciver to use your credit card. Its not a fraud if you willingli (spelling?) gave away this information.

[Felt 35]

My credit card conditions/contract say its irresponsible to give any information included credit card number and pin even to the Police and the company who issue the card.

If founded that information from the card have leaked through the cardholder to any third part that again have misused the card. The cardholder will be responsible for a minimum fee of US 200, - and a maximum fee of US 1500, -

I happily follow the example in the OP; instead of give my credit card information to anyone.

Seems that the slang walking ATM`s suddenly come to its right!!

[luumak]

The punch line is the farang that will dutifully comply, along the the litany of other daily and everchanging qualifications.

Thailand, known to have hugely corrupt political institutions, military, police and as we all know - Immigration (whether its a scam bus ride or B10 for 'overtime', Immigration 'fixing' your visa).

I have to laugh, what else will you fools put up with, it is quite obvious that the Thai govt is driving us out. They are quite happy with dodgy two week tourists from even more dodgy countries (a guy in pajamas from Muscat checked in to my GH today).

How many Thai's have 200K per annum? How many Thai's have a CREDIT card?

I have two friends thinking about O visas that have no credit cards. Are they disqualified?

I can only hope this is true, best laugh all week.

Never get my 800K, never get my credit cards numbers.

EDIT: When there is found to be theft on the card, how much assiatnce do you think you will get from the Thai Gov't/ Immigration - Oh, I am sooo laughing

Edited November 7, 2007 by luumak

[luumak]

Something else I thought of, if they start making credit queries on your accounts if can impact your credit as well. This is a disaster and it goes to show the level of incompetence.

Thailand really needs to cut the corruption and nepotism and get some sensible, educated, stable people in charge of its institutions.

What is really amazing is the number of critical policy changes that have been pushed through while there is essentially no government in power. I think it safe to assume that both the miltary and Immigration are not friends of the foreigner.

[jingjingna]

So what is the 'real' point behind this absurd 'new' regulation? Why is it limited to Pattaya only? Sunbelt where are you?

[ignoramus]

There have been several good points made about to avoid problems. Naam, I think it was, suggested using a non-activated card. Great idea. This I would imagine renders the usefullness/importance to the ungodly of those magic last 3 digits (CVV? numbers) null and void. Mind you, if one wants to actually use a credit card for something or other then one would need a second - usable - card.

The Pattaya rule is course 100% crap. I posted earlier about this, and would AGAIN

[Jingthing]

Perhaps some people with good relations with the officers in Jomtien could explain that it is an affront to our Western sensibilities to ask for credit card copies; it is just not POLITE. Sure, the officers would not like to come off as impolite?

[ignoramus]

oops, what did I do? Anyway....I noted previously that certain ungodly types travel the world with an mightily impressive stock of BLANK cards, just waiting for the innocent types who are silly enough to bandy their personal details about with gay abandon. (Apologies to the younger souls among you - "gay abandon" is a very old phrase meaning "in a crazy sort of way" - fewer letters though).

Just this week in dear old Sydney someone was caught - AGAIN - with a stash of said cards.

Paul of Sunbelt is spot on to be outraged. It's a preposterous situation, not to say a risible situation. As someone said, lopburi3 I think, Pattaya is but a hop skip and jump from BKK, me old mateys. Pull your fingers out and take a trip, yes?

I also mentioned previously that certain resourceful gentlemen fiddle with the ATM's here in Sydney, enabling clever retrieval of vital details, which leads to....yes, you guessed it....fraud. Check the ATM first, but ALSO cover your pinkies when keying in the PIN. (+ don't record the PIN, except maybe on your ankle.)

As some smart person also previously said, somewhere here, if the mugs in Pattaya want to photocopy the BACK of your card, blank out those magic 3 digits. Except for the crooks, the jokers wouldn't notice (if someone says 'why have U covered 'those digits Sir?' -- say 'so you won't rob me blind old son'). Say it in Thai though.

But, to ditto repeato, almost ad nauseum, the trip to the big smoke is a kind of heavy-traffic-delight, ain't it....I mean really...there's so much to see...and breathe.

God bless and good luck.

[gzu88bv]

Is Sunbelt respectively the OP testing the mood of Falangs? I just cannot believe this crap !!! Provide hard copies off the front and the back of a credit card just for a visa is absolutely insane.

This reminds me of the Nigeria gangs, well, I think it is even worse than that.

[britmaveric]

Order a prepaid one - throw 10quid on it and be done with it.

[Chang_paarp]

There are other immigration offices, some even within 50km of Pattaya. I would love to have the audacity when asked why not going to Pattaya to reply:

"Their fees are too high."

In a clear firm voice.

However a better answer would be "The queue is too long, too many tourists cannot wait all day. I have a business to run."

[Lite Beer]

There are other immigration offices, some even within 50km of Pattaya. I would love to have the audacity when asked why not going to Pattaya to reply:

"Their fees are too high."

In a clear firm voice.

However a better answer would be "The queue is too long, too many tourists cannot wait all day. I have a business to run."

Coward.

[JimmyTheMook]

When I applied here in Pattaya for a one year extension of my Non "o" based on marriage a copy of my ATM card was requested, was pretty shocked they actually wanted this.

[mikethevigoman]

Whats your thoughts?

don't fight it, think of alternatives.

-ask your bank to issue an additional card with a limit of 10 dollars,

-submit a card which has not been activated,

-open an account and get an ATMcard. after that withdraw everything except the minimum need to keep the account active.

Or do as i do and keep it maxed to the hilt ! they wouldnt get a penny off mine