T.b.

[Mossfinn]

bina,

like I said, we will just have to agree to disagree.

In certain counties, but not all, the decision was made to cure, instead of preventative measures, because the overall cost was cheaper to treat TB instead of vaccinate.

I do agree though that it can give false positives, but remember that approx 30% of people in certain countries carry latent TB, which is not infectious, but on the other hand there is also cases of being positive and results show you are negative.

I passed every test they could take except a sputum culture, because I had a dry cough and couldn't produce one.

I guess someone is going to ask for a link regarding my assertion, I will search but as it was spoken by a specialist, I am not sure how I will find it.

Like I said bina, you have your source, I have mine, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

Moss

[Mossfinn]

Stopping the BCG programme

The spread of tuberculosis in the United Kingdom has changed greatly over the years since the BCG programme began. The annual risk of infection has declined from about 2% a year in 1950 to less than 1 per 1,000 today, and the disease has become restricted to segments of the population, in particular immigrant communities. The number of cases in people born in the United Kingdom reached an all time low in 2003.

Another Site

I guess there is nothing like being proved wrong, both these statements, appear to contradict me and agree with you bina, although I personally disagree with all the content, you certainly can catch TB by sitting next to someone, if they cough or sneeze, you can pick up the infection, although generally it is not that easy.

I am not saying that I give up my assertions, it is just a quick search appear to agree with you.

Moss

[seonai]

Moss can you give me a two sentence explaination about what you and Bina are disputing please

Update - my TB is so stubborn (probably because the buggers are in the cavity) that my own consultant doesn't know what to do with me so I am seeing an international expert next month for advice - with total agreement from my consultant. I feel a lot better but we are scared to stop the drugs in case it comes back. And if I am resistant Sheryl you're gonna see one very angry bunny emerging

As a matter of interest Sheryl, why can't the hospital tell if I have resistant bugs? All they ever said was that the cultures didn't grow...

[bina]

its ok,thanx...

btw, any medical info always has more then one 'expert' who can back up his/her side of it, and there are always exceptions to any treatment, procedure, disease course...

[Maestro]

There are a few companies working on new vaccines for the new strains so there may be hope on the horizon.

Does this mean that the TB vaccination I got some 40 years ago, at the age of about 9 years, does not protect me against new strains of TB?

--

Maestro

[Mossfinn]

although I personally disagree with all the content,

This should obviously read as, ' although I personally disagree with some of the content.

Moss can you give me a two sentence explaination about what you and Bina are disputing please

Just a disagreement why the BCG was stopped in schools, in the UK only in certain counties, although it would appear the programme is being cancelled throughout now.

I say it was budget cuts, it was decided to treat/cure instead of preventative measures.

bina states that it was because it was thought to be ineffective.

Whoops that's three sentences, it would appear after a quick search, would be in favour of bina's assertions to the detriment of mine, but I still don't totally agree, people can put any spin they want to prove their reasons, particularly if their is money involved.

As a matter of interest Sheryl, why can't the hospital tell if I have resistant bugs? All they ever said was that the cultures didn't grow...

What do you mean the cultures didn't grow? Have they got anything positive to validate that you still have TB?

I'll give you a call a little later for an update.

Take care

Moss

[Mossfinn]

There are a few companies working on new vaccines for the new strains so there may be hope on the horizon.

Does this mean that the TB vaccination I got some 40 years ago, at the age of about 9 years, does not protect me against new strains of TB?

--

Maestro

I thought the Vac only lasted approx 10 years, but this link says 15 years.

Imminization

Moss

Immunization

Edited December 30, 2007 by Mossfinn

[Boo]

I had BGC at school 20 years ago & a booster about 10 years ago when I started travelling, after Seonai & her son lived wiht me & husband on & off for a couple of months I had the test & was negative as was my husband. Was 6 weeks preggers at the time (unknowingly but baby came out fine even after scratch test & chest xray

My son was given one 5 months ago in preparation for our trip to thailand when he was 11 weeks. We live in Kent & beleive my neice is due to have her BGC in the next year. Wonder why some places don't do it & some do, just seems to me to be safer to vaccinate even if it might be unaffective for some?

[Mossfinn]

Imminization

Moss

Immunization

bina if you look through this link, it does state the Raison d'être for the U.S not pursuing the BCG, only a short statement, so not sure what it proves really.

a booster about 10 years ago when I started travelling,

I was under the impression and the above link states that boosters are unproven, but I guess different GP's have differing ideas.

Our Son also had the Jab, possibly because Thailand is considered high risk.

my neice is due to have her BGC in the next year. Wonder why some places don't do it & some do, just seems to me to be safer to vaccinate even if it might be unaffective for some?

No idea, I am doing some research on this now, if I find a reason I will let you know.

Moss

[seonai]

This is from 1999 but sheds some light on some aspects of what we are discussing. Chris Holme has become a friend of mine since all this and I have emailed him re the vaccine questions. Will keep you posted as will Moss.

Boo I am sooooooooo relieved that I didn't give TB to any of your lovely family and will never forget your kindness in looking after me when I was most ill

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/301704.stm

[seonai]

A 2002 update on the situation in UK

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2539707.stm

[moldy]

TB can be caught by anyone as it is a contagious (infectious) disease and germs tend to be equal oportunity organisms, ie, they don't discriminate between race, class, sexuality, etc.

It really depends on who you are around, and in Thailand that means you probably will come in to a significant number of carriers. It is a disease associated with poverty, but aren't they all.?

General health websites state that it may be connected with people whose immune system may be already compromised, or it may not. So that's a lot of good then!!!!

I believe 'military TB' ie, TB as a whole body illness is definitely connected with a weakened immune system.

Trouble is you see the nonsense in one statement, and it's difficult to trust further statements.

So we're just left with a dangerous infectious disease that anyone can get, but one which is wholly curable thankfully.

[Mossfinn]

So we're just left with a dangerous infectious disease that anyone can get, but one which is wholly curable thankfully.

Thanks for the post moldy, but as for the above statement, it should read, CAN be wholly curable, but in a lot of cases can leave permanent damage and if it is not caught in time or poorly treated, will kill.

Good Luck

Moss

[seonai]

Yes mouldy all those different assumptions about TB really annoy me and have caused me considerable problems since I got TB.

Diseases are not always related to poverty, as you rightly said they 'don't discriminate between race, class, sexuality, etc'.

TB is usually curable, not always and the cure depends on total complience with the drug regime and also depends on other factors with each individual

[Ijustwannateach]

When I lived in Japan, a TB check was required once a year for all teachers and students. I don't think they really do it here. Does anyone know what the public policy is? What if even one student or teacher was found with TB- would the public health ministry be called in, school wide checks on all students, employees, and their families, etc., etc.- because of the widespread potential for exposure?- well, this being Thailand, I don't really see it- Is that what would happen back home?

I'm just curious because a number of teachers *every* year get pretty sick with the flu or other coughing-prone illnesses, and how would you be sure it wasn't TB? Nobody's checking- pretty scary, really.

"S"

[Mossfinn]

Does anyone know what the public policy is?

Don't know about Thailand.

Is that what would happen back home?

Not sure where your Home is, however in the UK, if diagnosed with TB, the relevant authorities must be informed, it is classed as a communicable disease under RIDDOR and the TB specialist clinic informed.

Anybody who has been in close contact are advised to go for a check-up and the Family under the same roof will be told to have a check-up.

Moss

[the scouser]

My son was given one 5 months ago in preparation for our trip to thailand when he was 11 weeks. We live in Kent & beleive my neice is due to have her BGC in the next year. Wonder why some places don't do it & some do, just seems to me to be safer to vaccinate even if it might be unaffective for some?

In relation to our son in Merseyside, the paediatrician said that on cost grounds they no longer routinely give the BCG, but when a child will be travelling to countries which are perceived to be high risk (more than 40 cases per 100,000 of population?), of which Thailand is one, they still do give the BCG.

Don't know if that's a definitive answer, but it's what we were told.

Scouse.

[bina]

the reason it is associated with poverty is that in poor areas or slums, first, people live in crowded unsanitary conditions, and second, poor nutrition therefore lower or poor immune system, and three poor compliance often due to lack of explanation on part of doctors but also due to the fact that uneducated people dont tend to ask questions of doctors nor do they often fully understand the need to comply, four lack of funds or waste of funds available for medications , five sick people that live in rural areas for instance dont have a way to get to medical centers seven, poorer people are often unwilling or unable to go to a medical center wanting to save money or not realizing that they are indeed sick.... the list just goes on and on which is why so many communicable diseases are more common among poor eight, in slum areas when people worked from morning to night without proper nutrition and sleep and lack of vitamins, often also with weakened lungs due to work in industrial jobs w/o proper ventilation or protective equiptment, more susceptible.

in the states it was known as the artist's disease (la boheme comes to mind)...

not sicounting of course the health workers that are exposed and not properly screened in a worker health program....

plus tb from bovines thru milk (in the states, apparently not in thailand as we once discussed in the farming forum supposedly there isnt a problem with tb in bovines (cows) but im not sure if i remember correctly on that one)...

bina

[moldy]

Quite so. My posting was not right in toto. What I meant was that the prognosis for treatment is generally very positive providing one has access to treatment. I wanted to cut through a lot of the brown stuff that surrounds other issues to do with TB. The emphasis I think is on staying positive, plenty of rest and of course, taking the medication. Thankfully, it's an area of medicine that is unquestionably good in treatment options.

[seonai]

Just using myself as an example to hopefully help others in similar positions - I have already said that TB is not always straight forward. As Moss said, it can and does often leave permanent damage. I'll let Moss speak for himself but again I feel compelled to mention that because my TB was not noticed for up to a year I have irreversable lung damage and it has made me officially a disabled person.

TB has to be taken extremely seriously and followed up amongst anyone you have been in contact with.

Bina's points about poverty are totally valid but I personally don't enjoy the stigma this fact entails so prefer to go with the 'disease doesnt discriminate' line. But of course if there are large amounts of people living together in any circumstances the disease will be more easily spread, whether poor or not.

Can't remember if I said this before but a nurse I know who came back last year from working in Afganistan tols me that TB patients were not taking their drugs because the medicine increased their appetite (true) and they could not afford the food

Classic example of how diseases like TB spread

[moldy]

Just using myself as an example to hopefully help others in similar positions - I have already said that TB is not always straight forward. As Moss said, it can and does often leave permanent damage. I'll let Moss speak for himself but again I feel compelled to mention that because my TB was not noticed for up to a year I have irreversable lung damage and it has made me officially a disabled person.

TB has to be taken extremely seriously and followed up amongst anyone you have been in contact with.

Bina's points about poverty are totally valid but I personally don't enjoy the stigma this fact entails so prefer to go with the 'disease doesnt discriminate' line. But of course if there are large amounts of people living together in any circumstances the disease will be more easily spread, whether poor or not.

Can't remember if I said this before but a nurse I know who came back last year from working in Afganistan tols me that TB patients were not taking their drugs because the medicine increased their appetite (true) and they could not afford the food

Are you ok though ? Obviously we want you to get well and everybody is 100% behind you. Please post.

Classic example of how diseases like TB spread

Are you ok though ? Obviously we want you to get well and everybody is 100% behind you. Please post.

Classic example of how diseases like TB spread

[seonai]

Hi Moldy,

What do you mean? I am sort of okay, yes, as in I can walk very slowly and manage to get myself to a dinner in a cab. I have such limited capacity in my lungs that just standing at the bottom of about 10 steps makes me feel like I want to pee myself. The future is probably dodgy. If I come near anyone with a chest infection I'm stuffed and the cavities in my lungs mean I could face 'drowning' in my own blood at some stage.

I am only saying these things on this forum for a reality check. Most people with TB won't get this but some do...

Meantime I have a duty as a parent and then to raise awareness about this disease...

[bina]

if I said this before but a nurse I know who came back last year from working in Afganistan tols me that TB patients were not taking their drugs because the medicine increased their appetite (true) and they could not afford the food

as i said before, poor compliance due to cost (of meds, or supportive therapy or whatever).....

i suppose also that the wealthier people probably use private discreet medical services whereas most of us on the poor/poverty line use public or the equivalent of public medicine centers rather like abortion clinics. if u are wealthy, its private, if not, then its going to a committee getting a decision made and then u get the subsidy (thats here, for instance) as an example.

seonai, dont worry about stigmas, my very first boyfriend gave me a permanent STD which when i explained to later, potential partners, as i am a responsible partner when it comes to sex, weeded out a lot of guys so only the good, real ones stuck through!!!...like my husband. thats a plus-- someone willing to stick thru with u regardless of known diseases means that they will stick to u through thick and thin.....

but i'm not exactly mainstream as u all know by now anyway

)

bina

Edited January 2, 2008 by bina

[Mossfinn]

hi,

I don't see anything to concern about TB as multidrug therapy is very useful and very effective against TB also it totaly curable also you there must be close contact to spread them and by little precaution we can avoid this disease .

Very informed, well done Girdhar.

Moss ( sound of applause )

[seonai]

So is this an argument now about the fact that 'most' cases of TB are cureable but SOME are very stubborn? I am surprised at you Moss for applauding Girdhar for such a bland statement - either that or I am missing your (prolific) sarcasm dearest

I am trying to get the message across that TB is not always a straight line - for me the drugs have not worked three times. What do you say to that Gerdhar and what experience do you have of TB please? A little background information of how you knpow this would help stem my anger at this moment

And yes, mods are allowed to get angry when it's personal

[Mossfinn]

either that or I am missing your (prolific) sarcasm dearest

Yup, you missed that one

Don't get angry at the guy's who live under bridges

Good Luck

Moss

[seonai]

Okay Moss I am a total prat for not spotting your wonderful prose ... it's Girdi Girdi I have a beef with ... tripped up on a serious thread

[seonai]

Saw the big cheese in Liverpool and he said that the last years smear positive tests were all culture negative and that means that the last 10 months drug treatment was uneccessary. Doing two spits with cultures and bloods and if all well stopping treatment. Permanent lung damage and disability but no more drugs... 4-6 weeks before I know the results... wish me a little bit of luck...

Please all of you out there with a cough that lasts more than a few weeks, go to your Doctor and ask for a TB test. It is non invasive and easy. Have the test and don't end up like me

[seonai]

Notice that Girdhar has disappeared Moss ???????????????????

[Mossfinn]

All they ever said was that the cultures didn't grow...

What do you mean the cultures didn't grow? Have they got anything positive to validate that you still have TB?

Saw the big cheese in Liverpool and he said that the last years smear positive tests were all culture negative and that means that the last 10 months drug treatment was uneccessary. Doing two spits with cultures and bloods and if all well stopping treatment.

You are almost there now, if they haven't been able to grow any cultures over a 10 month period and these latest tests are negative, then hopefully you are home and dry.

Good Luck

Moss

Notice that Girdhar has disappeared Moss ???????????????????

There has been a lot of rain recently, the rivers rose and washed away his little home under the bridge,