30 Farang Murders A Year

[Theyreallrubbish]

"Thailand is an increasingly popular destination for British travellers with more than 850,000 of them making a visit there every year.

Sadly, in 2006 our consular team provided assistance to 252 families who had suffered the death of a family member in Thailand. In the majority of those cases the death was from natural causes, but three of those who died were, tragically, murdered."

Found this interesting snippet in a Hansard debate in June 2007 about the Kirsty Jones murder in Chiang Mai. (BTW I feel terrible for the family that her murderer has still not been found) http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/c.../70621-0019.htm

There are about 8.5 million farang tourists a year so presuming Brits aren't being murdered or dying at a higher rate than other nationalities then that would imply that about 30 farangs are murdered every year and 2500 die from "natural" causes.

This seems rather high to me. The UK has about 600 murders a year across of population of 60 million. So the murder rate is 1 in 100,000 per annum. The average stay of a tourist is about 5 days so the murder rate if it was the same as the UK would be (5/365) * 8.5 = 0.1164

So about 1 brit every 9 years should be murdered. Instead there's a murder rate of 3 a year, meaning a murder rate 26 TIMES higher! (also assuming that all of the other 249 deaths were genuinely of natural causes).

I think Thailand can definitely be classified as a dangerous country for Brits compared to staying in their home country.

This is just some back of envelope figuring with the UK murder rate and average duration of stay for Brit tourists coming from my memory. If anyone has more accurate figures please update the equations.

Another thing to consider is that murder in the UK is overwhelmingly a domestic event with the risk of being murdered by a stranger almost negligible. It would be a reasonable assumption that tourists are not being murdered by their spouses while on holiday and are being murdered by strangers they meet or run into while on holiday which increases the risk factor for being murdered by a stranger many many times compared to staying in the UK.

Anybody any thoughts?

[jumnien]

I suggest Brits also avoid Los Angeles, which until recently would outpace the whole of England for yearly murders. Now, the yearly total is down to about 400.

[funfun]

do you have nightmares after watching crime watch?

[Theyreallrubbish]

I suggest Brits also avoid Los Angeles, which until recently would outpace the whole of England for yearly murders. Now, the yearly total is down to about 400.

Yes, but that's mostly gang related murder. What's the murder rate of Brit tourists to the city? I can't remember any stories of murders of British tourists in Los Angeles. I remember one from Miami which got huge media attention several years ago, but remember nothing similar from Los Angeles

I just googled "British tourist murder los angeles" and there were no stories of British tourists being murdered in Los Angeles.

I googled the same replacing los angeles with Thailand and the first page was all stories of different murders of British tourists in Thailand!

[Theyreallrubbish]

do you have nightmares after watching crime watch?

Not at all. I just saw some numbers, played with them and found the result fascinating.

I know what Thailand is and am aware its not really that safe. To have numerical guide to how less safe it is is interesting to me. Maybe not to anyone else. Maybe I'm just weird by being fascinated by numbers and facts.

I also think its interesting that Thailand is constantly portrayed as being safe when its quite clearly much more dangerous than the home countries of farang tourists and probably more dangerous than many other tourist destinations.

Great bit of PR by the Tourism Authority of Thailand to plant the idea in every one's head its safe. I think we should give them more credit than we do!

[howtoescape]

The average stay of a tourist is about 5 days so the murder rate if it was the same as the UK would be (5/365) * 8.5 = 0.1164

I dont know too many Brits that holiday for 5 days, this figure must be wrong.

[Heng]

Could be worse.

[Theyreallrubbish]

The average stay of a tourist is about 5 days so the murder rate if it was the same as the UK would be (5/365) * 8.5 = 0.1164

I dont know too many Brits that holiday for 5 days, this figure must be wrong.

http://www2.tat.or.th/stat/web/static_index.php

You're correct. Its 8.62 for international visitors.

This changes the murder rate to (8.62/365) * 8.5 = 0.201

So the murder rate is only 15 TIMES higher.

That's assuming of course that the all other 249 deaths are genuinely natural causes.

[scotwumman]

As a regular visitor to Thailand wont call it the land of smiles because it isnt any more why should they smile if

they are unhappy with their lot.

UK news tonight two teenagers already murdered in England. Peace please, they could have been yours or

mine, the victims or the perpetrators, think about your children in 2008. Happy new year you and yours.

[yorkman]

Anecdotely, just judging by the frequency of reports of farangs murdering others in Thailand, it would be interesting to run the numbers as to how this compares with their homeland.

[mikethevigoman]

Could be worse.

could be 3 a year !

[jumnien]

I suggest Brits also avoid Los Angeles, which until recently would outpace the whole of England for yearly murders. Now, the yearly total is down to about 400.

Yes, but that's mostly gang related murder. What's the murder rate of Brit tourists to the city? I can't remember any stories of murders of British tourists in Los Angeles. I remember one from Miami which got huge media attention several years ago, but remember nothing similar from Los Angeles

I just googled "British tourist murder los angeles" and there were no stories of British tourists being murdered in Los Angeles.

I googled the same replacing los angeles with Thailand and the first page was all stories of different murders of British tourists in Thailand!

There are many british tourists who are bored to death in Los Angeles, perhaps not so many murdered.

[grantbkk]

The OP has cause for concern. He has just scratched the surface when it comes to violent tourist crime and crime where the victims are farang. I wish Thai Visa could become a clearinghouse for all violent crime against tourist and foreigners living in the Kingdom. Absolutely on one has a handle on what is happening in the capital or the provinces. Years ago Prime Minister Thaksin told the media not to report suicides involving non-Thais as it would negatively effect tourism. I suspect that many of the farangs that shoot themselves twice in the head may actually be murder victims no matter what the police say. The term "Pattaya Plunge" was coined years ago and again I suspect many of the victims received assistance getting off of the buildings. The suicide death of the farang found hanging from a billboard in Bangkok with his hands tied behind his back with a plastic bag over his head seems suspicious to me. I'm fairly sure the number of deaths on both sides of the conflict in the deep south is at least double of the numbers being reported to the public. In my view this is a very dangerous place and precautions should be taken by just like Los Angeles, Detroit, Houston, New Orleans, London, Berlin, Rio, Madrid, Paris, etc. I know people that live here think Bangkok is one of the safest cities in the world. The fact that only high profile crime is reported in the English language (except in the Pattaya City News) is evidence to me that crime is going underreported.

[jumnien]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

[Theyreallrubbish]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

[jumnien]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

There's 3, gotta fourth?

What I mean to say is that most of us who have been here more than a decade feel Thailand is a relatively safe place compared to our home countries. Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world. If you want trouble and some connection with an underworld, it is definetly here.

Edited January 6, 2008 by sunrise07

[Theyreallrubbish]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

There's 3, gotta fourth?

What I mean to say is that most of us who have been here more than a decade feel Thailand is a relatively safe place compared to our home countries. Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world. If you want trouble and some connection with an underworld, it is definetly here.

Katherine Horton - raped and murdered by two Thai fishermen

James Edward Hall - 57 year old man beaten to death by 3 Thais in order to rob him of his money

Adam Lloyd - shot by the same Thai policeman who shot his girlfriend dead

There's another 3 for you. All from just the first page of google

[jumnien]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

There's 3, gotta fourth?

What I mean to say is that most of us who have been here more than a decade feel Thailand is a relatively safe place compared to our home countries. Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world. If you want trouble and some connection with an underworld, it is definetly here.

Katherine Horton - raped and murdered by two Thai fishermen

James Edward Hall - 57 year old man beaten to death by 3 Thais in order to rob him of his money

Adam Lloyd - shot by the same Thai policeman who shot his girlfriend dead

There's another 3 for you. All from just the first page of google

Well, Google is God is quite the new movement. Anyway, we feel comfortable with the safety of ourselves and our families and friends who come visit us in Thailand. If others don't, I'm not demanding they come against their intuition or knowledge. I would highly recommend not riding a motorcycle and if you do, wear a helmet.

Edited January 6, 2008 by sunrise07

[Theyreallrubbish]

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t060118a.html

This report states that in the 15 months between August 2004 and January 2006 9 British people were murdered. Which puts the murder rate even higher than the 3 murdered in 2006 (post-tsunami year)

It also states that even before the rape and murder of Katherine Horton the British Foreign Office was warning British tourists about safety in Thailand and that two weeks after the Katherine Horton rape and murder another British woman was raped

[Theyreallrubbish]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

There's 3, gotta fourth?

What I mean to say is that most of us who have been here more than a decade feel Thailand is a relatively safe place compared to our home countries. Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world. If you want trouble and some connection with an underworld, it is definetly here.

Katherine Horton - raped and murdered by two Thai fishermen

James Edward Hall - 57 year old man beaten to death by 3 Thais in order to rob him of his money

Adam Lloyd - shot by the same Thai policeman who shot his girlfriend dead

There's another 3 for you. All from just the first page of google

Well, Google is God is quite the new movement. Anyway, we feel comfortable with the safety of ourselves and our families and friends who come visit us in Thailand. If others don't, I'm not demanding they come against their intuition or knowledge.

Do you know what Google is and how it works?

Here's a hint, none of the articles on the Google search page were actually written by Google.

[jumnien]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

There's 3, gotta fourth?

What I mean to say is that most of us who have been here more than a decade feel Thailand is a relatively safe place compared to our home countries. Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world. If you want trouble and some connection with an underworld, it is definetly here.

Katherine Horton - raped and murdered by two Thai fishermen

James Edward Hall - 57 year old man beaten to death by 3 Thais in order to rob him of his money

Adam Lloyd - shot by the same Thai policeman who shot his girlfriend dead

There's another 3 for you. All from just the first page of google

Well, Google is God is quite the new movement. Anyway, we feel comfortable with the safety of ourselves and our families and friends who come visit us in Thailand. If others don't, I'm not demanding they come against their intuition or knowledge.

Do you know what Google is and how it works?

Here's a hint, none of the articles on the Google search page were actually written by Google.

Really, that's quite fascinating. Thanks for enlightening me. I thought Google was the guy's name and he just sat in Google headquarters and made all that stuff up.

[Theyreallrubbish]

The bottom line is that the number of tourists killed in which the crime is not connected to alcohol bingeing, drugs and prostitution is extremely low here.

Like Kristy Jones? Like the woman killed in Kanchanaburi by the police man? Like the Australian woman shot in the neck?

There's 3, gotta fourth?

What I mean to say is that most of us who have been here more than a decade feel Thailand is a relatively safe place compared to our home countries. Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world. If you want trouble and some connection with an underworld, it is definetly here.

Katherine Horton - raped and murdered by two Thai fishermen

James Edward Hall - 57 year old man beaten to death by 3 Thais in order to rob him of his money

Adam Lloyd - shot by the same Thai policeman who shot his girlfriend dead

There's another 3 for you. All from just the first page of google

Well, Google is God is quite the new movement. Anyway, we feel comfortable with the safety of ourselves and our families and friends who come visit us in Thailand. If others don't, I'm not demanding they come against their intuition or knowledge.

Do you know what Google is and how it works?

Here's a hint, none of the articles on the Google search page were actually written by Google.

Really, that's quite fascinating. Thanks for enlightening me. I thought Google was the guy's name and he just sat in Google headquarters and made all that stuff up.

Well you're the one who thinks Google might be a God.

Would it be more convincing if I told you that Yahoo or Alta Vista also links to articles?

BTW I found your comment that anyone murdered in Thailand was due to alcohol binging, drugs or prostitution reprehensible to the memories and families of those poor people who were murdered. The implication that they deserved it was disgusting.

[Tony Clifton]

The roads kill way more.

[Cyberstar]

Although I haven't counted I'd say quite a substantial part of the farangs murdered in Thailand aren't 8 day tourists but rather long term residents ... lot's are business related and lots actually are domestic /relative events.

OP's statitics are totally worthless, with respect to how dangerous is to short term tourists, without taking long term residents into account@!

[girlx]

Many ladies also find Thailand a safer vacation destination than most places in the world.

I for one do not, in fact the longer I stay here the more dangerous this country seems.

However I am more scared riding in speeding taxis than I am of being randomly murdered.

[mellow1]

The roads kill way more.

That will ease everyone's mind.

[DamianMavis]

Unbelievable but not surprising that people STILL want to live with their head in the sand and ignore facts about the safety issues in Thailand. And you have to keep in mind that alot of events dont make the news, and many events (murders) are written up as suicides or natural causes (like heart attacks). One particularly ridiculous news story was about the 2 falangs that were found dead almost on top of eachother in their hotel room..... the police decided that it was quite obviously a simultaneous heart attack due to over drinking.... this was actually how it was reported in news papers.

Why would you criticise a search engine and infer that it is not a believable source of information?! Like I said, unbelievable.

Damian

[jckei]

so presuming Brits aren't being murdered or dying at a higher rate than other nationalities.....

I dont want to bash brits, but im pretty sure the average brit on holiday in Thailand got a higher probability to get murderd than other nationalities.

[Sunderland]

Don't forget about the Welsh Jungle Explorer in Pattaya whose later death back in his homeland could be blamed on his evil captors.

Beware of dangerous som tam vendors with machetes too.

And another stat for you ... som tam sold in London is 26 times more expensive than a similar portion sold in Mahasarakham

But you can't google that fact!!

[OlRedEyes]

Unbelievable but not surprising that people STILL want to live with their head in the sand and ignore facts about the safety issues in Thailand.

Damian

The old rose-coloured-glasses syndrome. Desperately clinging to the fantasy.

For tourists Thailand is one of the most dangerous destinations. Most expats at least know the dangers.

Edited January 6, 2008 by OlRedEyes