Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Dupont]

Double standards again.

Reisig! Ugly, minging fat, bald, sad looser of a sex tourist anybody!

Would have been if it was a tatooed Mr Reisig with a string of Thai girlfriends, regardless of what he looked like.

Come on, its equal opportunities now, lets apply the same standards to everybody who sleeps with Thais.

[Journalist]

So the moral of this story is then.....

'If you see a Policeman in Thailand.....and he is carrying a weapon, ........get it off him, so he can't decide to shoot you with it'

Better safe than sorry.

I saw just this on Thai Tv Cops show. Bangkoks finest were pulling over motorists. A cop sat at a table on the road side had his gun taken by the man waiting for him to write out a ticket. He emptied the gun at the three police and missed even from that range.

How easy is it to wrench a gun out of someone's holster? Is the cover just held down by a press stud?

I do often feel some atavistic urge.....

[geriatrickid]

A quick check of Canadian newspapers (Calgary Herald, National Post, Globe & Mail) indicate that the events aren't a top news item. When the female canadian - Iranian journalist mysteriously died in police custody in Iran, it was plastered all over the newspapers for months. This story rates a small article on page 3 of the local calgary paper. Turned on the streaming radio call in shows and the topics were Afghanistan (2 more soldiers killed), and the lady that sued her drug dealer and won. The beating yesterday by Indian police of 2 kids that snatched the purse of a Canadian MP is a big item as is an article on alleged police conduct in a local murder investigation.

No public statement either from Canadian Foreign Affairs on the incident and they are usually pretty quick to issue a press release on these types of incidents.

Ok, so if it's not a big news item and the canadian press has no problem with criticizing police conduct, then what does that suggest? Either the Canadian press is asleep,or does not see this as newsworthy. Maybe we are imputing nefarious evil motives to something that's as simple as a bunch of drunks making multiple errors of judgement.

[femi fan]

It's quite normal farang bahavior to talk about how life should be in thailand. They spend inordinate amounts of time pontificating about this and that bad thing about thai way of life. And how it's so much better back home.

Life just is. That is the lesson here. No thai policeman is going to randomly shoot his gun at a farang. And it really does not matter one inch whether we think he should not have been able to shoot at these farangs. He did shoot, it's happened before, and it will happen again. But it's extremely unlikely it will happen randomly to a farang.

Sensible people who go to another country take steps to fit in to acceptable degrees with local customs and thinking. Those that don't, fine, but expect any karma that is then visited upon you.

It is always of amazement to me how people can rail on so much about a country they have moved to, yet continue to stay in their own cesspool that they feel they live in.

[sriracha john]

A quick check of Canadian newspapers (Calgary Herald, National Post, Globe & Mail) indicate that the events aren't a top news item. When the female canadian - Iranian journalist mysteriously died in police custody in Iran, it was plastered all over the newspapers for months. This story rates a small article on page 3 of the local calgary paper. Turned on the streaming radio call in shows and the topics were Afghanistan (2 more soldiers killed), and the lady that sued her drug dealer and won. The beating yesterday by Indian police of 2 kids that snatched the purse of a Canadian MP is a big item as is an article on alleged police conduct in a local murder investigation.

No public statement either from Canadian Foreign Affairs on the incident and they are usually pretty quick to issue a press release on these types of incidents.

Ok, so if it's not a big news item and the canadian press has no problem with criticizing police conduct, then what does that suggest? Either the Canadian press is asleep,or does not see this as newsworthy. Maybe we are imputing nefarious evil motives to something that's as simple as a bunch of drunks making multiple errors of judgement.

Google news search results - Reisig:

all 222 news articles »

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ie=U...;ncl=1125915289

Edited January 10, 2008 by sriracha john

[brahmburgers]

I have been in this country for several years and along with my Thai wife have noticed that it's slowly turning to <deleted>.

I don't give a toss what people think, this crime should be punished.

If the justice system (what a contradiction in terms) doesn't have the balls to do something, then why don't some of the the senior cops who are losing trucks loads of face over this, just give a shoot to kill order over this pathetic excuse for a human being, and nail the Thai cops arse with a few round to the head.

As for all the 'if ya don't like it them leave gang', don't break into a sweat, we ARE leaving.

What complete and utter cr_ap this situation is.

We are out of here as fast as we can organize it.

Burnie.

I hear ya Burnie. I feel stuck here. I've invested 15 years of my life and all of my money in a country that apparently doesn't want honestly want me here. In spite of running a very successful tour business and paying my staff several times what they would make elsewhere, I'm constantly reminded that I'm a 'farang', a term which I hate be called. I pay a ton of taxes, yet the tax folks still want more from time to time. I do everything 'by the book', so why am I targeted? Hmm, let me guess.

I would leave tomorrow if I could, but alas, until I can recoup my life's savings, I'm stuck.

I do hope that this latest episode of outright murder at the hands of a cop affects tourism. Thailand isn't the Land of Smiles in my eyes. It's dangerous and the future doesn't look very bright.

both the girl and the Thai guy, Fuen, are at great risk of being snuffed out. They should be given police.... um armed guard protection a.s.a.p.

Fuen is more likely to be buyable by police, perhaps Bt200k baht would get him to adjust his story. The girl will probably not be as easy to buy off. You can be sure offers have been made by police or a proxy.

Curious that top gov't authoriies get all worked up about some things (spaghetti straps on pretty girls, not leaving a car when stopped for an hour waiting for VIP's to whiz by) .....but authorities are out to lunch on serious matters such as the recent murder/maiming in Pai. I think all cops in Thailand should be docked a week's pay - as a fund to help ease the suffering of the 2 farang and their families. After all it was one of their own who did the dastardly act.

Hit 'em in the wallet - that will get their attention.

[Galong]

It's quite normal farang bahavior to talk about how life should be in thailand. They spend inordinate amounts of time pontificating about this and that bad thing about thai way of life. And how it's so much better back home.

It is always of amazement to me how people can rail on so much about a country they have moved to, yet continue to stay in their own cesspool that they feel they live in.

I strongly disagree with what you're assuming here. For me and I'm pretty sure many others, we'd like a level playing field (just like Thais expect when they move to my country), government policies that aren't based on race/nationality and a modicum of law enforcement that doesn't allow cops or anyone else to get away with murder.

I don't recall too many posters talking about how much better it is back home. We talk about some aspects of 'back home' being better, but we don't make such general sweeping statements... from what I've read.

If you don't like debates such as the one on this thread, you can skip it and read some that fall within your definition of acceptable farang behavior.

[JimsKnight]

From statement above, police handguns do not have safety catch (603) it must be a revolver, as semi auto handguns do have safety locks on them. I have not seen all weapons of the world, but the many I have looked at do have a safety. 3 accidental shots from a revolver is hard to believe under any conditions.

Some semi-auto's also don't have safety catches, some rely on a 'grip-safety' plate (when a person is gripping the gun it is 'live') so that if you drop it there is no chance of it going off, in a struggle though it's not as 'useful' for preventing accidental discharge(s).

[selftaopath]

The fact the he was a cop and has been trained to use a weapon makes hs case worse.

Raises an interesting question. Just how much firearms training to the Thai police receive? I'm no expert but I believe that in the west as much, if not more, training is given on how not to use the weapon than how to use it. I am also certain that any firearms training program will strongly advocate that the weapon is dismantled and locked safely away before hitting the bottle.

Bear in mind that there is no standard police side arm. The first bribes received by a new policeman go to pay for his own gun as no one wants to use the ancient government issue .38s which they believe are dangerous as well as of course being a loss of face to be seen with one. Thus they all have different weapons ranging from tiny Saturday night special .32 revolvers to Desert Eagles .55 semi automatic cannons. Obviously they have to buy their own ammunition for this varied arsenal and after perhaps a very basic course shooting practice is on their own time. So I think you can imagine how much weapon training they get. Finally it is illegal for them to carry a gun off duty and out of uniform, unless they belong to a plain clothes unit and have a license to carry a concealed weapon. Not many of these are issued and they have to be renewed annually. To put it into perspective consider the number of occasions that Thai police open fire on crowed streets, often hitting passers by.

Finally it is illegal for them to carry a gun off duty ..... LOL oh thanks for that statement. I found it very Humorous. Illegal????? LOL oh my - precious indeed. Humn? Thailand and legal issures is certainly an intersting thought.

[abdulrahman]

A lot of outrage and flapping about the two Canadians involved in this incident. And a general feeling that Uthai(the Thai cop) should be hung by the balls!

There is another thread about 3 Thai police being murdered. Is this not worthy of an equal amount of outrage or are the lives of the 3 Thai police not as important as the Canadians?

Hmm, TVer's talk about Thai people being ethnocentric, take a look in the mirror.

The two cases are hardly comparable.No farang involvement and a quick retribution for the killer of the three police.Bail ? and probably no prosecution for the police killer.And the mud slinging of the 2 Canadians already started!

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

From statement above, police handguns do not have safety catch (603) it must be a revolver, as semi auto handguns do have safety locks on them. I have not seen all weapons of the world, but the many I have looked at do have a safety. 3 accidental shots from a revolver is hard to believe under any conditions.

Some semi-auto's also don't have safety catches, some rely on a 'grip-safety' plate (when a person is gripping the gun it is 'live') so that if you drop it there is no chance of it going off, in a struggle though it's not as 'useful' for preventing accidental discharge(s).

The point I was making in my original post regarding revolver or semi-auto is that the claim that there is no safety device on the gun makes it more likely to be a revolver ( a response to which from slapout is above. Accidently multiple shots from a revolver are darn near impossible unless its a Webley Fosberry which I doubt you would ever find in Thailand much less likely as sidearm carried by a police officer.

Edited January 10, 2008 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[Claymore]

"Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker"

If the above article is to be believed in all of its detail of accounting the struggle, then the couple behaved in a very reckless manner that significantly and spectacularly contributed to the outcome of events. There also seems to be some intentional grey area in Reisig's accounting of events, "playfighting" etc. The article seems to overwhelmingly absolve the policeman of guilt, according to witnesses.

Obviously, this case needs reliable forensics, but that's not going to tell us everything. It is also very easy to medically prove if she is pregnant or not, but would be a violation of her privacy to force that issue. It would definitely help to ascertain her credibility, though.

*added: And last but not least, we all need to be conscientious of the source of these articles. Who is Owen Williams/showbiz spy - an independent journalist? From where? I think as these news stories surface, the source - which is always important - will be more so now.

** As for myself, I'll stick with Drummond.

Exactly who is Owen Williams. The article attributed seems to be the same as as the latest post on the Andrew Drummond website

[girlx]

well, i don't know the victims personally, but i just received a letter from a friend of mine who is the "best mate" (in her words) of the girl carly, and is also the ex girlfriend of the thai guy feun.... i have to say this girl is a friend of mine despite her many flaws, and if her friends (the victims) are anything like her i can see how something like this might come about. she is one of those hippie types who calls "daddy" whenever she needs money and if she doesn't get it, finds some way to scam everyone around her for whatever they are worth. she is a serious alcoholic and managed to piss off everyone in the village i live in until they were ready to run her out- i had to help her with money to leave. as much as i like her, she is an example of just the kind of tourist thailand can do without, definitely trouble.... i would hate it if someone judged me based on my friendship with her, so it may mean nothing, but i can imagine that the circle she ran with in pai were not the most respectable of people.

still, that does not justify the cop's reaction. seems to me like a case of scum meeting scum.

[Journalist]

British coppers didn't get into much trouble for shooting that Brazilian man on the underground.

[Prakanong]

well, i don't know the victims personally, but i just received a letter from a friend of mine who is the "best mate" (in her words) of the girl carly, and is also the ex girlfriend of the thai guy feun.... i have to say this girl is a friend of mine despite her many flaws, and if her friends (the victims) are anything like her i can see how something like this might come about. she is one of those hippie types who calls "daddy" whenever she needs money and if she doesn't get it, finds some way to scam everyone around her for whatever they are worth. she is a serious alcoholic and managed to piss off everyone in the village i live in until they were ready to run her out- i had to help her with money to leave. as much as i like her, she is an example of just the kind of tourist thailand can do without, definitely trouble.... i would hate it if someone judged me based on my friendship with her, so it may mean nothing, but i can imagine that the circle she ran with in pai were not the most respectable of people.

still, that does not justify the cop's reaction. seems to me like a case of scum meeting scum.

Thanks for the addition to the total of info we have

PS: do you think you have changed from your first postings on Thorntree? I think you have changed a lot and now do not see Thailand or certain types of traveller there with the rose tinted glassed you did 4 or 5 years ago??

[Prakanong]

British coppers didn't get into much trouble for shooting that Brazilian man on the underground.

That old chestnut again - it was dealt with pages ago.

If you can not differentiate in the circumstances then nothing I can say will change your mind.

[Prakanong]

British coppers didn't get into much trouble for shooting that Brazilian man on the underground.

That old chestnut again - it was dealt with pages ago.

If you can not differentiate in the circumstances then nothing I can say will change your mind.

Please forgive me for not fully absorbing the full volume of codswallop being spouted by our jury of exports.

What are we exporting?

Maybe we should train the Thai plod's - Reisig would not be alive if it was a British copper doing the shooting!

[Arkady]

So the moral of this story is then.....

'If you see a Policeman in Thailand.....and he is carrying a weapon, ........get it off him, so he can't decide to shoot you with it'

Better safe than sorry.

I saw just this on Thai Tv Cops show. Bangkoks finest were pulling over motorists. A cop sat at a table on the road side had his gun taken by the man waiting for him to write out a ticket. He emptied the gun at the three police and missed even from that range.

How easy is it to wrench a gun out of someone's holster? Is the cover just held down by a press stud?

I do often feel some atavistic urge.....

In Pattaya one of two Russians came up behind a policeman who was standing in a queue waiting for a bank to open, pulled his gun out of its holster and shot him dead and then used the gun to rob the bank. Remember that one? It's quite easy to get a gun out of a press stud holster, as they are designed for a quick draw, unlike the old style flap holsters. Incidentally I don't recall the two Russians getting bail and they didn't look two healthy in their press photos after a few days in the Pattaya lock up.

[Claymore]

More Rashomon...

Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker

Canadian Carly Reisig, who witnessed her best friend being shot to death by a Thai policeman before being shot herself, last night denied being a troublemaker.

But she admitted that she had been involved in heated rows in the past in the picturesque hill tribe village of Pai near the Burma border - and had herself struck a Thai policeman.

Reisig, 24, who has stars tattooed in her left eyelid, said that two months prior to the arrival of Leo del Pinto, also 24, from Calgary, she had intervened after a scuffle broke out in a bar involving an Israeli tourist and a former Thai boyfriend called ‘Nui’.

“The Israeli guy hit my Thai boyfriend and I tried to break it up but I couldn’t. Then the police came and took them outside and they circled around Nui and were pushing him, so I got involved.

“I went in there and hit one of the cops. I was very drunk that night. The cops took us both to the police station and made us give urine samples. The test came out clear and they let us both go.”

On another occasion she said she was involved in a fight at a regular party at a nearby arts market called Pittalew with her current boyfriend Rattaporn Varawadee nicknamed Fuen.

“We had our first fight. We were sitting on the bench together, and then I started crying and walked off. I was walking around crying but neither of us touched anyone else.”

Ms Reisig adamantly stuck to her claim that Police Sergeant Major Uthai Dechawiwat was the one who struck the first blow early last Sunday morning as she was walking from the Be-Bop bar in Pai to the Bamboo Bar.

“Things are a bit foggy. I can’t quite remember what happened before the incident, But I can remember everything very clearly from the time that man hit me in the face.

“Leo and I were always messing around and play fighting noisily. We might have even been yelling at each other, play-fighting - but not in anger, it was just our way of kidding around, having fun. We never fought in anger. But even if we were fighting, we weren’t hurting anybody else. It didn’t give anyone the right to shoot us.

“I don’t feel at all responsible for the shooting. The guy who did this was crazy.”

Last night as the sunset on Pai, a former by-water which has been taken over in the last 3 years by a massive backpacker invasion, two Thai witnesses said they insisted it was Carly not the policeman who started the fight.

Kanasphuchit Sankam, the owner of a karaoke bar who was eating at the noodles at the time said: “I watched the couple come up, punching each other and yelling.

“It didn’t look like they were pretending, it looked like a real fight, they were shouting loudly and punching each other, but I don’t know what the fight was about.

“They even knocked over one of the motorbikes that was parked on the bridge. I watched Uthai go over to try and stop the fight.

He said ‘Stop, I am police’ and held out his hand in front of him, with his other hand ready to draw his gun. They pushed him over and he got his gun out.

“The girl started crying loudly and he told her to calm down and go and sit down. The policeman then started walking away from the scene, but the girl got up and hit him.

“Leo then joined her in hitting him and they all fell onto the ground. I couldn’t see them anymore because of the parked cars, but I then heard three shots go off. If the girl had not provoked him, nothing would have happened.”

A similar story in almost identical words was told by Saijai Gawin the owner of the noodle shop.

The Thai police investigator Lt-Colonel Sombat Panya has already given a reason for the couple fighting. He said Leo Del Pinto, who recently arrived in Thailand, found out that Reisig had become pregnant with a Thai man known as Fuen.

Associated Press has quoted Sombat Panya as saying that the foetus ‘was unharmed’ - although Ms Reisig denies being pregnant.

As in the case of British backpackers Vanessa Arscott,23, and Adam Lloyd who were gunned down by a Thai policeman in Kanchanaburi by the River Kwai in Thailand in 2004 it seems unlikely that Ms Reisig will be able to produce any witnesses in Thailand to prove her side of the story.

Her current Thai boyfriend, while claiming the shootings had no justification, is reluctant to say any more. Ms Reisig’s willingness to go out with local Thai men will not have helped her image in a society which regards western women as ‘easy’.

Four years ago in Kanchanaburi, western Thailand, Briton Adam Lloyd was gunned down by Police Sergeant Somchai Wisetsingh and then got into his Volvo car and ran down Vanessa dragging her body under the car along the riverside road.

He then got out and as she clung to an electric pylon shot her in the head, neck and chest.

In the ensuing furor stories were put out that Vanessa had slept with Wisetsingh and had returned to the town to see him again.

There were several witnesses to the shooting. They would not go to court but were able to tell the victim’s parents exactly what happened. Each one said they were scared to give evidence against the local police.

In the case of the death of John Leo del Pinto it seems the only reliable evidence may be forensic, and hope of a satisfactory conclusion for the young man’s family may be down to close monitoring of the case by the media, Canadian government and lawyers.

The grouping of the shots is vital. But there already appears to be an answer as to why the gun fired. “Police told me that their guns do not have safety catches,” a local reporter said last night.

- By Owen Williams, Jan 09 2008 © Copyright 2008

www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/01/10/canadian-backpacker-admits-she-had-hit-thai-policeman/

Same but seem to be subtle differences

[Scott]

Sadly, what seems to have resulted in this entire mess is that fact that laws weren't upheld in the first place. If the policeman had prior problems, he should have been suspended, given desk duty or other responsibilities not involving firearms. If she was such a problematic person and had struck a police officer before, she should have been arrested and spent some time in the local clink for assaulting a police officer--and then probably turned over to immigration for deportation (if serious violations occurred). Likewise, if her boyfriend was arrested for drugs, why is he out and about? Shouldn't he be serving time in jail as well.

The situation now is that you have, if we can believe what is reported, a cumulative situation of misbehavior on several of the suspects parts and one dead and one wounded. Very, very sad.

In a lot of places--including developing countries, these situations are dealt with in a more serious manner. This helps prevent them from escalating.

Now, it's one huge mess with one dead and several character assassinations going on. Very difficult to find the truth in the matter now.

[girlx]

do you think you have changed from your first postings on Thorntree? I think you have changed a lot and now do not see Thailand or certain types of traveller there with the rose tinted glassed you did 4 or 5 years ago??

definitely. and i will be the first to admit i feel pretty jaded about thai culture at this time- i have learned that a lot of thai values and ideas seriously clash with my own. also i feel like the concept of 'face' and the attitude against and presumptions around foreigners makes this country much more dangerous than i ever thought before. i also have realized that a lot of the foreigners that thailand attracts really are either utter scum or hopelessly naive... but, i am not ignorant enough to paint all thai people or all visiting foreigners with the same brush. and i do not expect thai people to conform to western ideals on their own turf. i think i just look at things more realistically now, and that can be depressing. at this point it is my problem and i probably need to relocate. where i have chosen to live is paradisical on the surface, but has a very dark undercurrent that is becoming more obvious the longer i stay.

[kat]

Thai officer says Canadian was shot in scuffle

CALGARY - A Thai police officer accused of murdering a Calgary man says the fatal shots were fired as the officer fell during a struggle with Leo Del Pinto.

On Wednesday, Sgt. Maj. Uthai Dechawiwat told the Calgary Herald that Del Pinto and his friend, Carly Reisig, hit and pushed the officer after he was asked to intervene in a fight they were having early Sunday morning in the northern Thai town of Pai.

He said the pair pushed him into a motorcycle and, as the off-duty officer fell, his gun came loose from his holster.

He said he and Del Pinto struggled for the gun and, as he wrenched it from the Calgary man's hands, the officer fell backwards and the three shots that killed Del Pinto and wounded Reisig were fired.

- Calgary Herald

Wow. As he lost his footing and fell backwards, the three shots that fired into Pinto's head, chest, and an inch from Reisig's heart were "accidentally" fired in a free fall. Sounds fairly outlandish to me.

[kat]

Sadly, what seems to have resulted in this entire mess is that fact that laws weren't upheld in the first place. If the policeman had prior problems, he should have been suspended, given desk duty or other responsibilities not involving firearms. If she was such a problematic person and had struck a police officer before, she should have been arrested and spent some time in the local clink for assaulting a police officer--and then probably turned over to immigration for deportation (if serious violations occurred). Likewise, if her boyfriend was arrested for drugs, why is he out and about? Shouldn't he be serving time in jail as well.

The situation now is that you have, if we can believe what is reported, a cumulative situation of misbehavior on several of the suspects parts and one dead and one wounded. Very, very sad.

In a lot of places--including developing countries, these situations are dealt with in a more serious manner. This helps prevent them from escalating.

Now, it's one huge mess with one dead and several character assassinations going on. Very difficult to find the truth in the matter now.

Agree with you 100 percent and was thinking the same today. They should have done themselves a favor and deported her as soon as she struck the first cop.

[siamesekitty]

More Rashomon...

Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker

.

.

Ms Reisig adamantly stuck to her claim that Police Sergeant Major Uthai Dechawiwat was the one who struck the first blow early last Sunday morning as she was walking from the Be-Bop bar in Pai to the Bamboo Bar.

“Things are a bit foggy. I can’t quite remember what happened before the incident, But I can remember everything very clearly from the time that man hit me in the face."

.

.

.

Does anybody else find this sentence interesting? Just a note.

Edited January 10, 2008 by siamesekitty

[Journalist]

^If you're half-blotto, being punched in the gob does sober you up fast.

[mikethevigoman]

More Rashomon...

Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker

.

.

Ms Reisig adamantly stuck to her claim that Police Sergeant Major Uthai Dechawiwat was the one who struck the first blow early last Sunday morning as she was walking from the Be-Bop bar in Pai to the Bamboo Bar.

“Things are a bit foggy. I can’t quite remember what happened before the incident, But I can remember everything very clearly from the time that man hit me in the face."

.

.

.

Does anybody else find this sentence interesting? Just a note.

Her sympthaty is slowly going down hill id say,.

[JungleJim]

More Rashomon...

Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker

.

.

Ms Reisig adamantly stuck to her claim that Police Sergeant Major Uthai Dechawiwat was the one who struck the first blow early last Sunday morning as she was walking from the Be-Bop bar in Pai to the Bamboo Bar.

“Things are a bit foggy. I can’t quite remember what happened before the incident, But I can remember everything very clearly from the time that man hit me in the face."

.

.

.

Does anybody else find this sentence interesting? Just a note.

I think it says it all. She discredits her own version of events with this statement. Seems like that punch could have sobered her up. In her own words she does not remember what happened prior to that and is therefore an unreliable witness as to who started the fight.

[kat]

More Rashomon...

Girl who witnessed friend being shot by Thai policeman denies being a troublemaker

.

.

Ms Reisig adamantly stuck to her claim that Police Sergeant Major Uthai Dechawiwat was the one who struck the first blow early last Sunday morning as she was walking from the Be-Bop bar in Pai to the Bamboo Bar.

“Things are a bit foggy. I can’t quite remember what happened before the incident, But I can remember everything very clearly from the time that man hit me in the face."

.

.

.

Does anybody else find this sentence interesting? Just a note.

Yeah, for sure. I was alluding to this earlier about her keeping shades of grey, along with her "playfighting."

[Arkady]

Re the gun. Can't see in the picture whether it is a revolver or a semi auto. The statement that the police weapons don't have safety catches seems misleading, since a casual stroll down any street in Thailand will reveal that all have different types of handgun that they buy themselves, some of which have safeties and some not. But the statement implies that it was a revolver and standard model .38 revolvers are the cheapest hand guns in Thailand and the choice of less well to do cops (police and military can buy them tax free and that works out similar to the US retail price). As others have pointed out, it would be hard to get off three shots in quick succession with a revolver without a very deliberate effort for each because of the pressure required on the trigger to pull back the hammer. Old school law enforcers in the US like revolvers because of the difficulty of accidental discharges and the fact that officers have to shoot their six shots carefully and deliberately rather than spraying 15 shots in quick succession from a 9mm semi auto. On the other hand nearly all the semi autos used by Western law enforcers have safeties and double trigger pressures which also require deliberate pressure to fire successive shots similar to a revolver but slightly less so. Older style semi autos like Colt .45s and Browning Hi Power 9mms (still used I believe by the British Army) have a single pressure hair trigger mechanism which is designed for getting off shots in quick succession. I haven't seen many of these single pressure semi autos on police hips. This is probably not because they consider them more dangerous but more likely because they are considered old fashioned and a cop who is willing to spend the extra on a semi auto is more likely to want a more cool looking modern design like a Glock or a Sig Sauer which is likely to be a double pressure model. Anyway, since we will probably never be told what kind of gun was used in the shooting my conjecture is that it was highly likely to have been either a revolver or a double pressure semi auto, both of which would require a deliberate decision and effort to get off three shots in quick succession. I hardly ever see any detailed evidence reported relating to ballistics or hand gun types in Thai murder cases - probably because of the tradition of relying on confessions rather than forensic evidence and the primitive state of forensic pathology in Thailand. Where the prosecution does produce such evidence it often gets discounted by the judges anyway e.g. the case of the MP Hangthong Patraprasit whose death was finally judged to be suicide by the supreme court, despite the fact that, as a right hander, he had apparently used his left hand to shoot himself through the left temple using a .38 revolver owned by a business associate of his brother's loaded with a round that fired rat pellets rather a bullet (hardly a suicide's first choice) while his own 9mm semi auto was in the glove compartment of his car outside.

Back to the Pai case. Carly's background is now making her look a less reliable witness based on independent farang sources and her story already had an inconsistency about whether Uthai had got the gun from his motorbike or from his person. On the other hand it also doesn't look as if the killing of Del Pinto with two shots and the chest shot to Reisig were purely self defence on the part of Uthai to save his own life. My guess is that the regional police commander gave the order to charge Uthai with premeditated murder and attempted murder because the victims were farangs and this would stave off pressure from Bangkok and the Canadian government. Then it is up to police, prosecutors and the courts to engineer an acquittal which at the moment looks as if it should not be too difficult.

[kat]

Well, right now I am interested in collecting the dubious explanations from both sides, as well as any other evidence we can get. Based on just what we have now, it seems the cop was definitely in the wrong to shoot them in what appears to be an execution style attempt, but if they hit and rushed an armed cop, they contributed to the fatal outcome. I'm not sure, but I think forensics may be able to tell us likely scenarios of how del Pinto was shot.

*Arkady, I didn't see your post until after I posted. Do you or anyone else know how far forensics can get in judging how Del Pinto was shot once he is back in Canada?

Edited January 10, 2008 by kat