Australian Aged Pension

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, opalred said:

yrs ago i went back to see daughter \was told have

to stay and  be a resident in oz to get card /ithough a bit rough /3generation born and payed taxes/ all life/i think is different to how you talk too/ cheers

And whether the Centrelink/Medicare office is well enough informed and what their personal attitudes are.

 

Maybe 10 years back I called Centrelink from LOS (well before I was aware of the 2 years re-build residency to get portability) and asked if it's possible for Australians living abroad to get the OAP,.

The abrupt very direct lady said 'of course not people who live abroad don't get anything and never will, what else do you expect'. 

[Seeall]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

I was born in OZ, worked abroad for 30+ years, during that time never used Medicare and lost the card.

Went to Centrelink/Medicare office, they said:

- Totally no problem, She completed a very simple form and I signed the form.

- No questions of discussion about being out of Oz/ how/where card was lost etc. She said 'we will get a search conducted for your old number and if we can find it Medicare will re-start it and give you a new card. If the number can't be found you get a new number'.

- I waited for a short time, the officer came and asked me to return to her desk.

- She immediately informed me 'a new card has been ordered, it will come by mail within about 7 days (came earlier), and here's a signed letter indicating you have full access to all Medicare entitlements, and your  new number, use this letter if needed in Australia until your new card comes.

- One week earlier I had applied for the OAP with no complications at all. No doubt the  Centrelink/Medicare could see that details.

In any event I don't see how OAP/Not OAP/in OZ has any affect on Medicare entitlements. But when you're out of OZ you can't use your Medicare card. 

- End...

 

 

I find it interesting u say when out of AUs cant use card......  Who anyone with a brain would think they could?

 

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Seeall said:

I find it interesting u say when out of AUs cant use card......  Who anyone with a brain would think they could?

 

Some countries do have reciprocal agreements about health care with Australia, however Thailand is not one of them

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

Why do you lose pension portability if already granted its portable. 

 

Indefinite Portability and Former Residents

 

from : Basic Rights Queensland

 

Question 

 

"I thought you could be paid Age Pension outside of Australia for as long as you like but Centrelink say that I won’t be able to be paid outside Australia at all if I leave again within two years."

 

Answer

 

"If Centrelink make a decision that you have ceased to “reside” in Australia, then once you have recommenced “residing” in Australia you will not be able to take your pension outside of Australia within the following 24 months of again becoming an Australian resident – this applies to Age Pension, Disability Support Pension, Wife Pension, Widow B Pension and Bereavement Allowance.

 

The legislation allows no discretion to grant portability of pensions during the first 24 months after having resumed “residing in Australia”. It is possible to have your payment suspended for short periods while you are outside Australia so that you do not have to reclaim on your return to Australia - your payments can simply resume once you return.

 

You should note that even if you return to Australia and “resume residing” after receiving Age Pension overseas for years, there is a risk that these provisions could prevent you from being paid outside Australia again. Centrelink may take the view that you have “resumed residing” in Australia and you would have to continue “residing” in Australia for 2 years before having indefinite portability of your payment.

 

However, if you can show that you only returned to Australia for a visit and never intended to permanently return then the rules would not apply to you."

 

Link :

BRQ-IndefinitePortabilityandFormerResidents-BRQ2016.pdf

Edited March 29, 2021 by LosLobo

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

Indefinite Portability and Former Residents

 

from : Basic Rights Queensland

 

Question 

 

"I thought you could be paid Age Pension outside of Australia for as long as you like but Centrelink say that I won’t be able to be paid outside Australia at all if I leave again within two years."

 

Answer

 

"If Centrelink make a decision that you have ceased to “reside” in Australia, then once you have recommenced “residing” in Australia you will not be able to take your pension outside of Australia within the following 24 months of again becoming an Australian resident – this applies to Age Pension, Disability Support Pension, Wife Pension, Widow B Pension and Bereavement Allowance.

 

The legislation allows no discretion to grant portability of pensions during the first 24 months after having resumed “residing in Australia”. It is possible to have your payment suspended for short periods while you are outside Australia so that you do not have to reclaim on your return to Australia - your payments can simply resume once you return.

 

You should note that even if you return to Australia and “resume residing” after receiving Age Pension overseas for years, there is a risk that these provisions could prevent you from being paid outside Australia again. Centrelink may take the view that you have “resumed residing” in Australia and you would have to continue “residing” in Australia for 2 years before having indefinite portability of your payment.

 

However, if you can show that you only returned to Australia for a visit and never intended to permanently return then the rules would not apply to you."

 

Link :

BRQ-IndefinitePortabilityandFormerResidents-BRQ2016.pdf

I would treat BRQ's advice carefully, is as much I would ignore it without confirmation from Centrelink. 

[LosLobo]

2 minutes ago, Artisi said:

I would treat BRQ's advice carefully, is as much I would ignore it without confirmation from Centrelink. 

This has been discussed on this forum before. This was the only reference I could quickly find.

I can give you Centrelink's overseas phone number if you like!

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Seeall said:

I find it interesting u say when out of AUs cant use card......  Who anyone with a brain would think they could?

 

Well thanks for clearing that up, much appreciated.

Edited March 29, 2021 by scorecard

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

And whether the Centrelink/Medicare office is well enough informed and what their personal attitudes are.

 

Maybe 10 years back I called Centrelink from LOS (well before I was aware of the 2 years re-build residency to get portability) and asked if it's possible for Australians living abroad to get the OAP,.

The abrupt very direct lady said 'of course not people who live abroad don't get anything and never will, what else do you expect'. 

I was told something similar when I visited Centrelink just prior to moving to Thailand. A female staff member said to me, you realise your pension will stop once you move overseas. I told her she didn't know what she was talking about and to check her facts. She apologized to me after making some online enquiries. Too many Centrelink employees giving too much false information.

[giddyup]

3 hours ago, LosLobo said:

You would only get free treatment under Medicare if you could prove that  you have permanently returned to Oz.

 

Then that would become a can of worms coz you would lose pension portability and would have to remain in Oz for two years to qualify again.

 

 

Medicare Card Legislation

Is a hospital going to check if you present a Medicare card? How would they know where you've been living?

[Artisi]

39 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

This has been discussed on this forum before. This was the only reference I could quickly find.

I can give you Centrelink's overseas phone number if you like!

What was discussed before, someone with portability who has lived overseas for a period receiving the OAP and returned for a period and then moved back overseas again, would be interested in seeing a link or two to that discussion - - what had been discused to death is the residency period in Aust prior to granting the OAP with portability allowing the pension to be paid overseas. 

 

As the OAP is portable either by being in Aus for 2 years prior to or 2 years after applying for and being granted the OAP, please point out the appropriate link on the Aust government site that supports that hypothesis, portability is cancelled on return to Australia. 

I'm always willing to learn something new, an ongoing task with pensions / centrelink. 

 

Thanks for the offer of the overseas number - it's not required as I have called it on many occasions - to discuss the pension and other points. 

[LosLobo]

45 minutes ago, Artisi said:

What was discussed before, someone with portability who has lived overseas for a period receiving the OAP and returned for a period and then moved back overseas again, would be interested in seeing a link or two to that discussion - - what had been discused to death is the residency period in Aust prior to granting the OAP with portability allowing the pension to be paid overseas. 

 

As the OAP is portable either by being in Aus for 2 years prior to or 2 years after applying for and being granted the OAP, please point out the appropriate link on the Aust government site that supports that hypothesis, portability is cancelled on return to Australia. 

I'm always willing to learn something new, an ongoing task with pensions / centrelink. 

 

Thanks for the offer of the overseas number - it's not required as I have called it on many occasions - to discuss the pension and other points. 

 

I agree confirmation documentation of this from Centrelink would be great but I think this is their creative interpretation of DSS legislation and as yet is not formalized.

 

It would be interesting to find out if any cases have gone to appeal yet!

 

The starting post of the thread I mentioned is below.

 

This breaks a lot of preconceived notions that portability is permanent.

 

On 6/25/2020 at 3:21 PM, AussieBob18 said:

Just found out something that I should share with others.  I have a contact at CLink and I have been advised that CLink has started cracking down hard on Aussies who travel overseas each year.  The website about who is entitled to get the pension reflects this in that the type of words and meanings associated with: 'Permanent and Australian and Resident' that have been 'fine tuned'.  What this means in practice is that if someone who lives in Australia travels overseas 'too much' they can be deemed to be 'not a permanent resident' when they travel overseas - and what that means is that they will lose their portability next time they return to live in Australia.  As unbelievable as it sounds, a person on the pension can be an Australian Resident and meet as the conditions, but if they travel overseas a lot they can be declared to be not a Permanent Resident - meaning that they are not permanently living in Australia.  

 

Examples: someone that spends 3-6+ months of each year staying in another country each year (the same one), can after a couple of years be declared to not be a permanent resident. Someone that travels extensively overseas each year for 3-6+ months at a time (different countries) after several years can be declared to not be a permanent resident.  

 

When I questioned if there was any hard and fast definitions, I was advised that (of course) there is none set.  They have started recently to impose these declarations on people, and as usual, the appeals processes will decide what the 'rules and precedents' are in each case.  In one case a couple that had been travelling overseas each year for 8 years, had their portability removed.  In another case a bloke that was spending 6 months of the year overseas in Europe (would not say where) and 6 months in Australia (family in both countries) had his portability removed.  I was advised that someone who goes overseas for a specific holiday with a start and end date (and advises CLink) will not have an issue - but if they do it every year and it is for 3+ months at a time - they can lose their portability.  Obviously, anyone that loses portability will regain it after staying in Australia for 2 years.  I was also advised that as long as the overseas trip is only for about 4-6 weeks at a time, then there will unlikely be an issue. It is after 6 weeks that pension payments when overseas reduce a little (energy supplement etc.), and this can be the trigger for a review. 

 

The driver behind all this of course is to reduce the ever growing costs of the pension, and the reality is that people who  travel overseas every year are easy targets for the Pollies to attack.   Why should we give welfare payments to people who are able to afford overseas holidays every year - that is the logic. There are limits on what they can do, particularly because under International Agreements Australia must pay pension 'welfare' to people who live overseas, who first received the pension when living in Australia and meet the requirements for portability.  Other than that, they can pretty much do whatever they want, because there is very little (if any) public support for those on the pension who travel overseas - each year or permanently.  

 

Anyone that was able to afford it and was going to maintain a premises in Australia and in Thailand, and was going to spend time each year in both locations, better think again. Clearly, the current harsh 'interpretations' of a permanent resident, means that someone has to choose between one and the other, otherwise one day they might find that their next trip backl overseas will have to be without the pension payments.  AND they will have to re-apply for the pension from scratch when they next return to Australia AND they will have to prove that they now intend to live 'permanently' in Australia AND they must not go overseas again for at least 2 years - unbelievable but true I am afraid.  

 

A couple had been travelling around Australia for over 14 months. CLink recently declared their house to no longer be their 'main residence' and it was therefore no longer exempt and the value was included in their Assets - their pension payments were severely reduced.  The matter is under appeal, but they will likely lose - the pension 'welfare' is not for people who live somewhere else while their million+ dollar house is lived in by their family members.  

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by LosLobo

[Artisi]

25 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

I agree confirmation documentation of this from Centrelink would be great but I think this is their creative interpretation of DSS legislation and as yet is not formalized.

 

It would be interesting to find out if any cases have gone to appeal yet!

 

The starting post of the thread I mentioned is below.

 

This breaks a lot of preconceived notions that portability is permanent.

 

 

Good read, but as you said it could mean anything and only time will tell. 

If the Aussie government had any brains, just a few more than what they currently, they would encourage more people to leave, massive cost saving exercise - no ongoing medical expenses, no subsidies for power, water, driver's license, cheap travel etc. etc. guess they might see a bit of a down turn in the economy, but wouldn't be much considering the lousy pension payment and the spending power of the pensioners. 

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, Seeall said:

I find it interesting u say when out of AUs cant use card......  Who anyone with a brain would think they could?

 

I made an error in my post above, my apology. I meant abroad in Thailand.

 

Australia does have reciprocal arrangements with some countries in regard to pensions, medical cards etc., but not Thailand.

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

I made an error in my post above, my apology. I meant abroad in Thailand.

 

Australia does have reciprocal arrangements with some countries in regard to pensions, medical cards etc., but not Thailand.

Why bother apologising to such a grose individual, I wouldn't waste 30 seconds of my time on it. 

[scorecard]

15 hours ago, Artisi said:

What was discussed before, someone with portability who has lived overseas for a period receiving the OAP and returned for a period and then moved back overseas again, would be interested in seeing a link or two to that discussion - - what had been discused to death is the residency period in Aust prior to granting the OAP with portability allowing the pension to be paid overseas. 

 

As the OAP is portable either by being in Aus for 2 years prior to or 2 years after applying for and being granted the OAP, please point out the appropriate link on the Aust government site that supports that hypothesis, portability is cancelled on return to Australia. 

I'm always willing to learn something new, an ongoing task with pensions / centrelink. 

 

Thanks for the offer of the overseas number - it's not required as I have called it on many occasions - to discuss the pension and other points. 

 

I assume you're talking about a toll free number from Thailand back to C'link in OZ (or perhaps that means the 'Older Australians' line/number).

 

If correct, can you please share the number, thanks.

Edited March 30, 2021 by scorecard

[opalred]

what would happen if you were in oz /went to a hospital for treatment  when asked for card say dont have one/they say you have to pay/cant pay as on a aged pension /

would they refuse treatment

i think i made a mistake/at 63age had accident broke bask /they put me on disabilty pension at 65 was  changed to aged pension/ should i have stayed on disablity pension?

now 76

[madmen]

52 minutes ago, opalred said:

what would happen if you were in oz /went to a hospital for treatment  when asked for card say dont have one/they say you have to pay/cant pay as on a aged pension /

would they refuse treatment

i think i made a mistake/at 63age had accident broke bask /they put me on disabilty pension at 65 was  changed to aged pension/ should i have stayed on disablity pension?

now 76

Makes no difference. I'm on disability pension and if I let the 5 year window lapse would be denied a Medicare card. 

 

However, you only have to say you intend on living in Australia permanently and you get the card within a few weeks 

 

[LosLobo]

5 minutes ago, madmen said:

However, you only have to say you intend on living in Australia permanently and you get the card within a few weeks 

 

You actually need documentation to prove that you are now a permanent resident.

 

How to enrol and get started in Medicare - If you’re an Australian citizen - Services Australia

 

You can prove you live in Australia by giving us either:

• 2 documents from Australia
• 1 document from Australia and 1 from where you last lived.

Documents from Australia	Documents from the other country
Proof of rental or lease agreement and gas or electricity account in the same name	Proof you sold your property
Proof of purchase of property and gas or electricity account in the same name	Proof you ended your lease
Proof of job	Proof you ended your job
Proof your child is enrolled in school, childcare or university	Proof you moved household goods or furniture
A statement from your bank	A statement showing you closed your bank account
Proof of health, property or contents insurance	Proof you cancelled health, property or contents insurance

Edited March 30, 2021 by LosLobo

[madmen]

12 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

You actually need documentation to prove that you are now a permanent resident.

 

How to enrol and get started in Medicare - If you’re an Australian citizen - Services Australia

Australians living overseas

If you move back to Australia after more than 5 years overseas, you can re-enrol in Medicare. You don’t need to visit a service centre.

What you need to provide

To re-enrol in Medicare you’ll need to give us both:

• a current passport for each person
• 2 documents proving you now live in Australia.

 

Not hard. And temporary card issued almost immediately. 

 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

Makes no difference. I'm on disability pension and if I let the 5 year window lapse would be denied a Medicare card. 

 

However, you only have to say you intend on living in Australia permanently and you get the card within a few weeks 

 

I have been in Thailand 11 years but have managed to keep my Medicare card current. As long as you have a mailing address (I use a friends) in Australia they will automatically send out a new card just before the old one expires.

[chalawaan]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:43 PM, giddyup said:

I have been in Thailand 11 years but have managed to keep my Medicare card current. As long as you have a mailing address (I use a friends) in Australia they will automatically send out a new card just before the old one expires.

You're not being flagged on the system for some reason, but I have been denied a new medicare card and NSW driving licence for a while now, they usually do know when you're permenantly out of the country and the databases are linked, hence all the new online passwords and so on that access all services from health to taxes, you've just been lucky up until now, because they didn't want to know when I showed up at centerlink in person to renew. about 5 years ago. I didnt tell them I was just visiting, but they knew I wasnt resident, you have to prove you've got substantial local ties -the usual utility bills in your name etc, or they will knock back. i have my two banks and aussie online based business all tied to a mates address, supposedly my crib, and a optus mobile, none of that convinced them. A bit hard when Border force is sharing your movements.

Edited June 1, 2021 by chalawaan

[scorecard]

On 3/30/2021 at 4:43 PM, giddyup said:

I have been in Thailand 11 years but have managed to keep my Medicare card current. As long as you have a mailing address (I use a friends) in Australia they will automatically send out a new card just before the old one expires.

A side point, my Medicare card expired 3 decades ago, I lost the card decades ago and I had no old documents with the old number.

 

 I returned to Oz, a few days later I asked at C'link about reinstating my Medicare no/getting a new one. The pleasant and professional C'link lady politely asked me to wait /have a coffee while she contacted another unit to try to find my old number (it seems for some reason they prefer to reinstate your old number rather then issue a new number).

 

Perhaps 30 minutes later she asked me to come back to her desk and she said 'they can't find your old number so I've started the process to get you a new number'. Five minutes later she gave me a 'temporary' letter with my new number and said please show this letter if you visit a doctor or hospital etc. She also indicated that a new plastic card would come in the mail, about 10 days. In reality it arrived about 5 days later.

 

Since used the new card/number a couple of times, no hassles whatever.

Edited June 2, 2021 by scorecard

[Nemises]

Below is an excerpt and link to a recent (2020) detailed report about the AU aged pension by YourLifeChoices*. Covers all aspects including receiving it overseas:

 

“It is possible to get the Age Pension for the whole time you’re overseas, whether you have left Australia on a temporary or permanent basis. If you remain outside Australia for longer than 26 weeks, your pension will be reduced to a proportional rate based on your ‘Australian working life residence’. This is the number of years you have resided in Australia since age 16 to Age Pension age. If you have lived in Australia for 35 years (420 months), then you are paid the full rate of Age Pension to which you are entitled.”

 

 

*YourLifeChoices is your link to Centrelink, clarifying and simplifying the often confusing regulations surrounding Age Pension eligibility. Providing regular updates on payment rates, changes in legislation and your rights and entitlements, YourLifeChoices checks the detail with Centrelink to ensure you are fully aware of the essential information related to your retirement.

 

 

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/articleimagehosting/Your-retirement-and-the–Age-Pension-2020.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this assists some TVF members. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Nemises

[giddyup]

Why does my aged pension keep fluctuating, usually downwards? My financial circumstances haven't changed, still have the same amount in my ANZ account in Australia, earning next to zero interest, so why has my pension been reduced, first my $5 and now another $4  a month? I know the amounts are only small, but why should it change at all?

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Why does my aged pension keep fluctuating, usually downwards? My financial circumstances haven't changed, still have the same amount in my ANZ account in Australia, earning next to zero interest, so why has my pension been reduced, first my $5 and now another $4  a month? I know the amounts are only small, but why should it change at all?

My pension never changes, only goes up twice a year in March and September.

I don't have any assets to declare in Australia, maybe that is the reason

[norbra]

Just now, ozfarang said:

My pension never changes, only goes up twice a year in March and September.

I don't have any assets to declare in Australia, maybe that is the reason

Is your oap paid into your ANZ account or are you having Centrelink to remit to a Thai account?

Mine is paid into my Australian bank account and has not changed month to month apart from increases

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, ozfarang said:

My pension never changes, only goes up twice a year in March and September.

I don't have any assets to declare in Australia, maybe that is the reason

 

2 minutes ago, norbra said:

Is your oap paid into your ANZ account or are you having Centrelink to remit to a Thai account?

Mine is paid into my Australian bank account and has not changed month to month apart from increases

Gets paid into my ANZ Aussie bank account.

[ozfarang]

3 minutes ago, norbra said:

Is your oap paid into your ANZ account or are you having Centrelink to remit to a Thai account?

Mine is paid into my Australian bank account and has not changed month to month apart from increases

Paid into my Commbank account in Australia

[Olmate]

Does.OP have mygov. account.? Should be able to query there.

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Why does my aged pension keep fluctuating, usually downwards? My financial circumstances haven't changed, still have the same amount in my ANZ account in Australia, earning next to zero interest, so why has my pension been reduced, first my $5 and now another $4  a month? I know the amounts are only small, but why should it change at all?

If you have assets in Australia such as shares, or a Thai bank account in baht, Centrelink will periodically adjust the pension to reflect current values. If the capital value of your shares goes up, your pension will be adjusted down accordingly. I'm not sure how often they do it, I think it is every 3 or 6 months.

I'm assuming you have a part pension, it should not be happening with a full pension.