I will indicate up-front that this topic is not intended to create discussion of moderation issues (contrary to forum rules), but only relates to the policy on banning posters. Just about all members of Bedlam will be aware of members who have been banned that they would like to see return to this forum with their old username and post count intact. I think that we would all appreciate that when a person has been banned, it was action that would not have been taken lightly and, in many cases, would probably have been preceded by warnings and periods of suspension.

My point is that banning is effectively a life sentence. It seems to me that the majority of people are capable of learning a lesson from a lengthy period of having been banned. Would it not be possible, for example, to set a period of ban after which the poster may apply by email for consideration of the ban being lifted? Perhaps a minimum period may be anything from 3 months up to 3 years (depending upon the seriousness of the matter or matters involved). I am not suggesting that this should be available for every upstart newby who comes to the forum with the pure intention of trolling or spamming. Perhaps only people with post counts of more than 500 (as per Bedlam eligibility) should be eligible for having a 'minimum sentence' imposed.

I appreciate that whilst this is not about moderation issues, it is a sensitive subject, and that is why I have placed it in Bedlam rather than one of the open forums. I would appreciate if some latitude could be granted to allowing the 'senior members' of TV discuss this issue within the parameters as stated above. If other Bedlam members do not share my views, then so be it, but I (for one) would like to see an avenue for some of the previously banned posters to be considered for an ultimate lifting of the ban.

E: Clarification

Here here...I agree wholeheartedly and with all my heart.

OK, I think it should be taken in consideration.

But I also think that those, who was try to come back on the forum with diffrent Name, E-mail and other different details, with or without success, should be banned forever.

But there is an other point which should be taken in consideration: The messages system!

In case a Member is suspended or bannend, the messaging system is directly closed and there isnt any access for that member to access the private messages which are stored on the system, the member also can't contact the Support and/or Admin's.

For a limited period of time, let say 2 weeks for example, the Messaging system should be accessible for that member so he can clear out hims stored Data and try to clarify him situation with Support and/or Admin's.

Cheers.

Banning of a member of the forum is a complex process and not one done lightly. Each member of the forum including Moderators and Admin have a points system. Members who are FORMALLY warned have a point added to their level and have their posting rights removed or are suspended for a period of time depending on the reason for the warning. Points can and are removed for good behaviour so it is a fair system.

What happens is that over a period of time members can accumulate sufficient warnings to become automatically banned from the forum. Some members are banned if the moderator /admin group believe that the person has broken the rules sufficiently to warrant immediate banning.

Under the forum rules any member who is banned cannot return to the forum. Additionally any member who is recognised as a banned member will be immediately banned.

CB

Yes, I appreciate what you are saying CB. What I am trying to do is to generate discussion to gauge whether there is significant support for my views. If there is overwhelming support, then I would have thought that it would be appropriate for Admins and Mods to consider amending the rules. Although this is not a democratic forum in terms of the members having voting rights as to rules, membership or management, if it can be demonstrated that there is a common view by mature members as to an issue with the rules, surely Admins/Mods can at least consider and discuss it? In any event, this is premature, because many more responses are needed to gain an understanding of members' views on the subject. Thanks, CB, for allowing the thread to proceed...

But there is an other point which should be taken in consideration: The messages system!

In case a Member is suspended or bannend, the messaging system is directly closed and there isnt any access for that member to access the private messages which are stored on the system, the member also can't contact the Support and/or Admin's.

For a limited period of time, let say 2 weeks for example, the Messaging system should be accessible for that member so he can clear out hims stored Data and try to clarify him situation with Support and/or Admin's.

Cheers.

It depends on whether the member is banned, suspended or has posting rights restricted. The system will allow the member to have access to PMs if he has his posting rights restricted - only prevents the member from posting into the open forum. If the member is suspended or banned then they lose their access to PMs.

Anyone who is banned or suspended has the right to appeal to Admin or to the moderators. All mods have an external email address which is their user_name"at"thaivisa.com eg crowboy"at"thaivisa.com.

CB

But there is an other point which should be taken in consideration: The messages system!

In case a Member is suspended or bannend, the messaging system is directly closed and there isnt any access for that member to access the private messages which are stored on the system, the member also can't contact the Support and/or Admin's.

For a limited period of time, let say 2 weeks for example, the Messaging system should be accessible for that member so he can clear out hims stored Data and try to clarify him situation with Support and/or Admin's.

Cheers.

It depends on whether the member is banned, suspended or has posting rights restricted. The system will allow the member to have access to PMs if he has his posting rights restricted - only prevents the member from posting into the open forum. If the member is suspended or banned then they lose their access to PMs.

Anyone who is banned or suspended has the right to appeal to Admin or to the moderators. All mods have an external email address which is their user_name"at"thaivisa.com eg crowboy"at"thaivisa.com.

CB

Thanks for that reply.

Unfortunate I don't agree fully.

In case of Suspension it is a time limited "cut" of access to the forum with any and all rights.

Let say someone is suspended but there is some proof in hims Messages folders that the suspension is done under wrong decission or circumstances. Now the member didn't has access for the time of suspension to hims messages folders and can't get the required document. May even some other very importand documents in the messages folder which are may arrived after the suspesion was taking place!

E-mails to the Support and/or Admin's didn't get an answer or it need to long time (72 h up!)!

That's where I didn't agree fully.

One other point is that there should be sure that Support, Admin's and Mod's must answer any Mail and/or PM from Members with are related to Forum Rules, the breach of Forum Rules or messages regarding disciplinary actions.

Hopefully this post didn't brak the Forum Rules?!

Cheers.

But there is an other point which should be taken in consideration: The messages system!

In case a Member is suspended or bannend, the messaging system is directly closed and there isnt any access for that member to access the private messages which are stored on the system, the member also can't contact the Support and/or Admin's.

For a limited period of time, let say 2 weeks for example, the Messaging system should be accessible for that member so he can clear out hims stored Data and try to clarify him situation with Support and/or Admin's.

Cheers.

It depends on whether the member is banned, suspended or has posting rights restricted. The system will allow the member to have access to PMs if he has his posting rights restricted - only prevents the member from posting into the open forum. If the member is suspended or banned then they lose their access to PMs.

Anyone who is banned or suspended has the right to appeal to Admin or to the moderators. All mods have an external email address which is their user_name"at"thaivisa.com eg crowboy"at"thaivisa.com.

CB

It always seems that most appellants to Admins are the worst offenders ( and I think I speak for the Admin group, we are always reluctant to over-rule a Mod decision. I'll ask whether those Mod suspended people could retain ( even limited ) PM rights. That is really a tech thingy. Will get back.

E-mails to the Support and/or Admin's didn't get an answer or it need to long time (72 h up!)!

An email to support[at]thaivisa.com will normally get a reply within 24hrs, this can be as little as 30mins during the day time.

Totster

But I also think that those, who was try to come back on the forum with diffrent Name, E-mail and other different details, with or without success, should be banned forever.

I think a clause like this would probably exclude everyone from a comeback.

Personally, I would love to see some of the great posters of the past back here again, but most have disappeared permanently or found homes elsewhere. However my great poster may be someone elses complete ratbag.

Also, the reasons for them departing may still exist. There may not be too many applying.

Even thieves, rapists and murderers get parole. and allowed back into society. But they must show remorse.

And yes, i'd like to see a few of the old faces back.

E-mails to the Support and/or Admin's didn't get an answer or it need to long time (72 h up!)!

An email to support[at]thaivisa.com will normally get a reply within 24hrs, this can be as little as 30mins during the day time.

Totster

Hhhhhmmmm ... I've sent one on the 2nd of January and I'm still waiting for an answer.

Nienke

E-mails to the Support and/or Admin's didn't get an answer or it need to long time (72 h up!)!

An email to support[at]thaivisa.com will normally get a reply within 24hrs, this can be as little as 30mins during the day time.

Totster

Hhhhhmmmm ... I've sent one on the 2nd of January and I'm still waiting for an answer.

Nienke

Nienke,

I have checked with support and no email from you has been received, I have sent you a PM

Totster

My 2 cents:

I'm not trying to be sycophantic, but I think the system in place is not too bad.

Offenders get warnings and suspensions and if they do not learn the lesson they evntually get the boot.

Being a member here is not a human right or basic need (otherwise you really have to get a life... ) so there is also no reason why there should be an appeal court where you have to submit the printouts of your PMs. Still, you can appeal by writing to the moderator in question and the admin team.

I would, however, allow the banned user the possibilty to delete all PMs from the system.

Nienke,

I have checked with support and no email from you has been received, I have sent you a PM

Totster

Thanks for your quick response, Totster.

So, that's another possibility when posts/mails remain unanswered; they get lost in cyberspace or maybe end up as spam?

I've resent the mail.

Nienke

apparently...so I have been told....I have a relatively high warning level....I have been of exemplary character lately, when can I expect my warninglevel dropped drastically to at least 30/50% ?

when can I expect my warninglevel dropped drastically to at least 30/50% ?

When Pig's fly Squigle, when Pig's fly

Actually, it's a good question. Do the warning levels ever subside, or do they remain the same?

Funny you should say that....I have seen a pig fly actually.

Also stated in a post above I think CB said good behaviour gets points deducted from warnings.

Hopefully the PM and warning levels issues have now been addressed. If other Bedlam members have a viewpont on the main issue - one way or the other - I am sure we would all be very pleased to read it. The mods have graciously given us the leeway to discuss this issue, so please post your views and any supporting reasons you may have.

I'm putting a "ditto" on raro's POV.

System is good - any long term members who "have a bad day" & get themselves into hot water get a fair bit of warning to amend their ways if the boot is coming.

Long term members who repeatedly abuse the system get the boot.

Pity really, because some of those members made the board very interesting, however IMO, they only have themselves to blame.

I'm putting a "ditto" on raro's POV.

System is good - any long term members who "have a bad day" & get themselves into hot water get a fair bit of warning to amend their ways if the boot is coming.

Long term members who repeatedly abuse the system get the boot.

Pity really, because some of those members made the board very interesting, however IMO, they only have themselves to blame.

"soundman" beers are most certainly on me with your post 100%. in Kan, as is for "raro" also.

A cat has 9 lives so do our members …………………………

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as for

“Actually, it's a good question. Do the warning levels ever subside, or do they remain the same?”

by “mrbojangles”

yes I think they do subside, but only for really good contributions to "ThaiVisaDotCom” and not for “good behaviour” as “MrSquigle” mentioned.

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So “Ping” I vote NO to have banned members back.

Sorry, but they posted and got banned. Rules are rules set by the forum owner/s, stick with them, O.K. bend them just a tad, if you wish, but at the end of the day “ThaiVisaDotCom” is free to use, but not to abuse.

Yours truly,

Kan Win

I always find the debate about old interesting yet banned members to be fascinating. Mainly because I see the posts that these people have made that got them banned. Usually it is for pretty heinous stuff. I think some of you would be quite shocked if you could see what some of the "favorites" posted and perhaps would not have quite so rosy a view point. As for time off for good behavior, well it would have to be longer than a month, wouldn't it?

I think it is a pretty emotive stand point and as the Croc says, one persons delight is another mans poison, if the warning systems are in place, you are either stupid or trolling or both in many cases, to recieve an outright ban.

Depending on the reason for the ban, I can see a view point that lends itself to parole, but that would be superceding the present suspension system, so why re-invent the wheel?

Obviously there will be times when something hits a raw nerve and the kettle starts to steam, this is where a temporary posting rights suspension comes into play, where all posts are checked first before being seen on the forum.

So with warnings, suspensions and post examinations before forum review in place, I think it is pretty much well handled, allowing back formerly banned members could set problems on precedent and in many cases just a matter of time before they start pushing the rules to the limit and then going off with a final bang.

So my vote goes for no parole, unless I get banned of course, but I have never been known to verbally attack anybody or go off on a rant

Moss

I've been warned a few times over a religion. Most of the warnings have come when I directly quote leaders of that religion or verses directly from their holy book. It seems a bit odd when I that I can be disparaging if the statement is taken directly from the religion itself. Its kinda like the two way street in the US when one race is vilified for using the "n" word and another race uses it freely. Either its bad or good the word or the religion

Well it seems the clear majority are against allowing banned posters to return. I have to admit to being surprised at the result, but at least - as far as I am concerned - the issue is now resolved (to the extent that there will be no need to put forward a suggestion for changing the rules).

Thanks to all for contributing.

So with warnings, suspensions and post examinations before forum review in place, I think it is pretty much well handled, allowing back formerly banned members could set problems on precedent and in many cases just a matter of time before they start pushing the rules to the limit and then going off with a final bang.

Yeah, but the policy of absolutely refusing to allow banned members back causes problems of its own - many high post count banned members will often "come back" to ThaiVisa as trolls or other alternative nicknames.

If a banned member really feels that he/she wants to come back and contribute properly, then all he/she has to do is just invent a new nickname and starts posting, but plays by the rules this time. But, if they feel so aggrieved with their banning that they want to cause trouble, then they will just add to ThaiVisa's troll population instead.

Some of these trolls, though, if they had some kind of legitimate route back into TV properly, may give up the trolling and come back as a normal poster instead. Similarly, if a member who creates a new Nickname and wants to be sensible this time gets found out, they will be booted out also, even if the new leaf they've turned over hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. This will only add to the resentment and make them more liekey to start trolling next time.

These issues could be solved by allowing banned members back in somehow.

I think they should have their own subforum. It would be tremendously entertaining.

you might have called it bedlam, had we not already used it here.

If a banned member really feels that he/she wants to come back and contribute properly, then all he/she has to do is just invent a new nickname and starts posting, but plays by the rules this time. But, if they feel so aggrieved with their banning that they want to cause trouble, then they will just add to ThaiVisa's troll population instead.

Some of these trolls, though, if they had some kind of legitimate route back into TV properly, may give up the trolling and come back as a normal poster instead. Similarly, if a member who creates a new Nickname and wants to be sensible this time gets found out, they will be booted out also, even if the new leaf they've turned over hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. This will only add to the resentment and make them more liekey to start trolling next time.

These issues could be solved by allowing banned members back in somehow.

I think it is safe to assume that a re-incarnated troll who behaves well in his second life will be unharmed as it is much too difficult to track who is who among 50,000+ members.

Once they start trolling again, the will appear sooner or later on the mod's radar and since the patterns of the individual trolls usually repeat, they become quite easy to spot.

If a banned member really feels that he/she wants to come back and contribute properly, then all he/she has to do is just invent a new nickname and starts posting, but plays by the rules this time. But, if they feel so aggrieved with their banning that they want to cause trouble, then they will just add to ThaiVisa's troll population instead.

Some of these trolls, though, if they had some kind of legitimate route back into TV properly, may give up the trolling and come back as a normal poster instead. Similarly, if a member who creates a new Nickname and wants to be sensible this time gets found out, they will be booted out also, even if the new leaf they've turned over hasn't actually done anything wrong yet. This will only add to the resentment and make them more liekey to start trolling next time.

These issues could be solved by allowing banned members back in somehow.

I think it is safe to assume that a re-incarnated troll who behaves well in his second life will be unharmed as it is much too difficult to track who is who among 50,000+ members.

Once they start trolling again, the will appear sooner or later on the mod's radar and since the patterns of the individual trolls usually repeat, they become quite easy to spot.

So with warnings, suspensions and post examinations before forum review in place, I think it is pretty much well handled, allowing back formerly banned members could set problems on precedent and in many cases just a matter of time before they start pushing the rules to the limit and then going off with a final bang.

Yeah, but the policy of absolutely refusing to allow banned members back causes problems of its own - many high post count banned members will often "come back" to ThaiVisa as trolls or other alternative nicknames.

You know and I know that they are here and will always be here, personally I cannot see the attraction of Trolling, hence is their underlying reason for doing it, for the sole amusement of who they can string along and for how long.

If a banned member really feels that he/she wants to come back and contribute properly, then all he/she has to do is just invent a new nickname and starts posting, but plays by the rules this time.

Why not follow them the first, instead of pushing the rules to the extreme?

But, if they feel so aggrieved with their banning that they want to cause trouble, then they will just add to ThaiVisa's troll population instead.

A Troll is a Troll, is a Troll, they exist for the sole reason to disrupt and dis-member, if you'll excuse the unintended pun, so they will increase the population any way.

This will only add to the resentment and make them more liekey to start trolling next time.

The resentment is already there, you have seen the posts as well as I have, they will start up multiple nicks and have one as a legitimate, controlled member, whilst the others will continue within their usual character.

These issues could be solved by allowing banned members back in somehow.

I thought about this, but I keep coming back to the reason they got banned in the first place, if you want to stay, don't get banned.

I actually understand what you are saying Dan, I just don't agree with it.

Moss