Total Novice Needs Help

[Richard W]

I bet this posting has been made a few times, so you can all have a laugh at my expense, OK the background.

I'm 46 and separated after 24 years married. Kids grown up. Rent house in UK in beautiful yorkshire village and have ok job as systems analyst.

Went to Pattaya for 2 week holiday and returned 2 days ago. Met 31 year old Thai bar girl and spent entire 2 weeks with her. Had to pay bar fines but she never asked for money from me. Either she genuinely feels something for me or she is a very good actor. In 24 hours since returning she has called me 6 times in tears. My 18 year old son literally had to drag me onto the plane at Bangkok. I feel like the secure framework within which I lived my life in the UK has been destroyed.

I am totally ignorant of whats involved in bringing her to the UK apart from advice given to me in pattaya that while she is a bar girl she will have trouble getting a visa to come to the uk. Really I dont even know whats involved in either her coming here or me going there. I can scrape a few £000 together but am not wealthy.

What are my options? What are the rules?

I don't think you have many options.

A. If you want to be with her in the UK, you'll ultimately have to marry her.

1. You'll have to get her out of the bar (and preferably out of Pattaya), which probably means you'll have to support her. Cynics will point out that many bargirls each have many men 'supporting' them for that reason. However, she won't get a visa if the embassy find out she's still working as a bargirl - barmaid might even be dodgy given her past.

2. Get writing to her, and you should both keep your correspondence for the visa application. E-mail is acceptable. Remember that your e-mails will probably be read by the Entry Clearance Officer. Also, they may be hacked into by other people - reportedly 123456 is a very common password! If you have to write in Thai, the spell checker with Word is quite good - and should be even better if you cheat and leave spaces between words.

(I still think it's much nicer to curl up with a letter.)

Some couples resort to translators for their e-mails!

3. I would recommend a further visit in a few months time, and if you still love her and think she will at least respect you, apply for a fiancee visa to bring her to the UK. The interview should be 3 months after the application - I think you can negotiate a time so that you can be there for the interview. That should help.

4. Look for further advice and details at www.thailand-uk.com. Read what they have to say about cheap telephone services.

5. Bear in mind that even if you do marry and live in the UK, she may dump you:

(a) When she has her indefinite leave to remain.

( When she's passed her English exams and got British Nationality.

( When her children leave home.

B. Just keep her as a mistress in Thailand. Possible, but troublesome.

C. Just be a regular client of hers. Of course, you'll lose her if someone else snaps her up.

D. Relocate to Thailand. Could you do your current tasks from Thailand?

With options A and B you'll want to know that she's faithful. Having her at the end of a landline in Thailand will give you confidence. What has she told you about children? Did you check for stretchmarks? I've heard that bargirls are told to deny having any children - the thought of possible step-children does put punters off.

Do you know what drove her to work in the bar?

Don't squander your money - you'll be shelling out left, right and centre to people unconnected with your girl. You can easily spend £4,000 before you get her to the UK - air fares, support, legal fees, visa fees, surveys/immigration inspections on your accommodation, internet cafés for your girl - and that's assuming you don't have to upgrade your accommodation. Also, worry will probably eat into your earning capacity.

[kayo]

we should tell him what to do  he's getting married after two weeks  and he's 46  cmon  i'm 35 and i know not to get married after 2 wks  for god's sake his son even is smarter than him and he's 18  pulling him unto the airplane to go home!!!!!

Yeah, your son maybe smarter than you, but ultimatly you´ve gotta do what you´ve gotta do.

Your writing about her is heartfelt and genuine, and who´s gonna deny a man that.

Unfortunatly, I agree with just about every post about the pitfalls, particularly re b.g.´s (but by the civvies are no different really).

However, the only truly genuine romantic loving relationships I´ve come across are the ones where the girl has been taken back to whichever country the ferengi comes from, for several year... where she is immersed in the local culture, language and the rest of it (and not exclusively in the local thai society in that country) One couple I know lived back in europe for 6 years and now come here six months and go back six months. I see them every year and they are more and more lovely every year.

OH Mucho Importanto: From what I´ve heard, the easiest way to get a Thai Girl to England is actually through Sweden... Sounds funny, and I´m not sure how the applications go, but dig around a little.

The way it works, is onec she is in Sweden, she can technicall travel any Schengen Country, (i think theres 12 or 15 schengen countries) with little hassle or problem.

Again, I only know what I hear, but the thai girl who told me that has done it three times in the past year and a half to visit her guy in Cambridge.

Hope it helps, be careful (about your heart) and Chok Dii.

[Shrek]

I bet this posting has been made a few times, so you can all have a laugh at my expense,  OK the background.

I'm 46 and separated after 24 years married. Kids grown up. Rent house in UK in beautiful yorkshire village and have ok job as systems analyst.

Went to Pattaya for 2 week holiday and returned 2 days ago. Met 31 year old Thai bar girl and spent entire 2 weeks with her. Had to pay bar fines but she never asked for money from me. Either she genuinely feels something for me or she is a very good actor. In 24 hours since returning she has called me 6 times in tears. My 18 year old son literally had to drag me onto the plane at Bangkok. I feel like the secure framework within which I lived my life in the UK has been destroyed.

I am totally ignorant of whats involved in bringing her to the UK apart from advice given to me in pattaya that while she is a bar girl she will have trouble getting a visa to come to the uk. Really I dont even know whats involved in either her coming here or me going there. I can scrape a few £000 together but am not wealthy.

What are my options? What are the rules?

I don't think you have many options.

A. If you want to be with her in the UK, you'll ultimately have to marry her.

1. You'll have to get her out of the bar (and preferably out of Pattaya), which probably means you'll have to support her. Cynics will point out that many bargirls each have many men 'supporting' them for that reason. However, she won't get a visa if the embassy find out she's still working as a bargirl - barmaid might even be dodgy given her past.

2. Get writing to her, and you should both keep your correspondence for the visa application. E-mail is acceptable. Remember that your e-mails will probably be read by the Entry Clearance Officer. Also, they may be hacked into by other people - reportedly 123456 is a very common password! If you have to write in Thai, the spell checker with Word is quite good - and should be even better if you cheat and leave spaces between words.

(I still think it's much nicer to curl up with a letter.)

Some couples resort to translators for their e-mails!

3. I would recommend a further visit in a few months time, and if you still love her and think she will at least respect you, apply for a fiancee visa to bring her to the UK. The interview should be 3 months after the application - I think you can negotiate a time so that you can be there for the interview. That should help.

4. Look for further advice and details at www.thailand-uk.com. Read what they have to say about cheap telephone services.

5. Bear in mind that even if you do marry and live in the UK, she may dump you:

(a) When she has her indefinite leave to remain.

( When she's passed her English exams and got British Nationality.

( When her children leave home.

B. Just keep her as a mistress in Thailand. Possible, but troublesome.

C. Just be a regular client of hers. Of course, you'll lose her if someone else snaps her up.

D. Relocate to Thailand. Could you do your current tasks from Thailand?

With options A and B you'll want to know that she's faithful. Having her at the end of a landline in Thailand will give you confidence. What has she told you about children? Did you check for stretchmarks? I've heard that bargirls are told to deny having any children - the thought of possible step-children does put punters off.

Do you know what drove her to work in the bar?

Don't squander your money - you'll be shelling out left, right and centre to people unconnected with your girl. You can easily spend £4,000 before you get her to the UK - air fares, support, legal fees, visa fees, surveys/immigration inspections on your accommodation, internet cafés for your girl - and that's assuming you don't have to upgrade your accommodation. Also, worry will probably eat into your earning capacity.

Thanks for your help.

Whats a fiance visa ?

Do ALL visas for her to come here mean her getting out of the bar scene?

She has stretchmarks but dunno the whole story.

I intend to go back 2 or 3 times more what then if we are still keen

Dunno about working there I work in IT as a business/systems analyst and would move tomorrow but havenet a clue where to start

I feel totally helpless and cannot sleep at night

Been back 10 days now we have spoken every night

[Richard W]

Whats a fiance visa ?

It's the visa that allows someone to come here, marry and settle without having to return to their home country. One can stay in the UK for up to 6 months on a fiancé(e) visa before the marriage. WARNING: You have to give a couple of weeks notice before marrying in England, and its not much different in Scotland.

Tourist visas will be refused if the Entry Clearance Officer thinks there is an intention to marry and settle (or otherwise not return to Thailand), though in theory visits for the purpose of marriage are (were?) permitted.

Do ALL visas for her to come here mean her getting out of the bar scene?

Yes. Or at least, they mean getting out of prostitution. But that's what you want, isn't it? The longer she works as a prostitute, the more likely she is to contract HIV, hepatitis etc, or for that matter be killed directly by a client. Besides which, if she is new to the scene, the sooner she gets out the better, for it will corrode her personality.

[rainman]

I feel totally helpless and cannot sleep at night

You're how old? Sorry to be so up front with you, but you need someone to knock some sense into your head, seriously. Being in love and everything is alright, but no need to forget the world around you. If you can't handle 10 days on your own without her, you're never going to get through the visa/marriage process.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Think about Rainman's advice my man. It is sound and practical. There's no fool like an old fool. Stretch marks remain indicative of having child/ren.

[kayo]

I feel totally helpless and cannot sleep at night

You're how old? Sorry to be so up front with you, but you need someone to knock some sense into your head, seriously. Being in love and everything is alright, but no need to forget the world around you. If you can't handle 10 days on your own without her, you're never going to get through the visa/marriage process.

dr_Pat_Pong Posted on Wed 2004-09-29, 08:16:50

  Think about Rainman's advice my man. It is sound and practical. There's no fool like an old fool. Stretch marks remain indicative of having child/ren. 

I´ve got to second Dr. Pat Pong´s comment there euh... Shrek.

Rainman´s advise is sound, however up front it may seem.

If you´re having problems sleeping at night, perhaps a question worth asking is this: "Do you believe you love her or is it possible you love how she makes you feel?"

[simey]

OH Mucho Importanto: From what I´ve heard, the easiest way to get a Thai Girl to England is actually through Sweden... Sounds funny, and I´m not sure how the applications go, but dig around a little.

The way it works, is onec she is in Sweden, she can technicall travel any Schengen Country, (i think theres 12 or 15 schengen countries) with little hassle or problem.

The UK is not in the Schengen agreement, so getting into Sweden would still not get her into the UK. As a non-EU passport holder you are required to register when you live in an EU country other than for tourist purposes.

[fisherd3]

It is true thai lady seems to constantly say the right thing but as they hardly speak any english you can bet your bottom dollar that if they say something well they have had a lot of practice saying it, and if this is the case why are they still available?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is true thai lady seems to constantly say the right thing but as they hardly speak any english you can bet your bottom dollar that if they say something well they have had a lot of practice saying it, and if this is the case why are they still available?

That was an intellectual contribution to the forum.

[daveh]

It is true thai lady seems to constantly say the right thing but as they hardly speak any english you can bet your bottom dollar that if they say something well they have had a lot of practice saying it, and if this is the case why are they still available?

I think alot of people who want to be in love tend to fill the gap of missing information with positive aspects about their ideal mate. I think this happens on the internet as well as with bar girls. I knows guys that fell in love on the internet because the girls they were talking to were saying "all the right things". But in actuality, in an internet relationship only a very small percentage of communication is made between the couple, the missing information due to lack of communication is simply a fantasy.

I believe the same is true for non-native English speakers. While he contends that she must love him or be a really good actress, how would he know if she were a good actress? If a native English speaker did and said the same things as she did, would he still feel the same way?

I think this is just another case of a lonely man finding someone who appears to be receptive of his love. And a girl who also is looking for love, but her criteria motives for love may be different than any woman he has dealt with in the past.

I remember a BG friend of mine telling me she was working in Pattaya to "find a farang boyfriend that can take care of me". That was her goal, and it really didn't matter who that guy was. She did find some guy that supported her... for a while. Then one day he called her from England and told her he could no longer send her money. So, of course, she went back to work in the bar. While at the bar, she saw him walking down the street with two women.

At the time that I met her, she was very sweet. But now, she is a bit more jaded. I'm not surprised that there are BGs who get support from many men who love them, but continue to work in the bars. They know, it will most likely not last.

At 31, I think his girl has probably been through this cycle many times. He should keep this in mind when proceeding. There may be a point in time in which she'll change. When she'll start to be herself, instead of being the woman she thinks you want her to be. I think this will happen when she feels you are being genuine with her.

"I love you", "I miss you", "I want to be with you", "I want you to visit me in <insert country here>", "I can't stop thinking about you", ... She's heard it all. For her, after only ten days, it's a script. But as I said, at some point, he wil hit new territory for her. At that point, she will only be able to be herself.

Good luck

[bkk_mike]

I think we should lay off on the 2 week thing... - Personally I met my wife in London and knew her for well over a year before we got married, but she worked in a restaurant, and I worked in an office, so we only ever really got to see each other on her one day off a week. On that basis, his 2 weeks is more like 3 months of dating someone in the normal manner.

[ngeean]

Shrek

I lived and worked in Bangkok for nearly 10 years. I love Thailand and the people, but there is a clear distincition between bar girls and the rest of the population.

So many foreigners have come to Thailand and experiened what you are describing.

The facts our these girls (be they good or bad) are from very poor backgrounds and winning the affection of a farang and being removed from the fated occupation of a prostitute is what they call "Winning the Jackpot".

She currently does not love you and you could not possible love her. I am sure she is nice and beautiful but the odds of her wanting more to leave her current state of affairs are much higher than her truly being enamoured by you.

Don't do something you will regret. Come back to Thailand and stay a few months. Go out with some non-bar girl type women and then see what you think:-)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I think that ole Shrek has either topped himself or calmed down. No more from him for over two weeks.

[sonthaya]

Now we have heard all the negative points about getting married to a BG, but they are not all the same, I have now been married to one for 12 happy years, it's my 6th marrige and the best of them all, sure beats being married to a farang woman who wants to control your life.

[billd766]

Now we have heard all the negative points about getting married to a BG, but they are not all the same, I have now been married to one for 12 happy years, it's my 6th marrige and the best of them all, sure beats being married to a farang woman who wants to control your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sonthaya, I agree with you 100%.

Shrek I waslucky in that I met my wife in a bar over 11 years ago when I was here working for a couple of months. I was 49 and she was 28 and like you I cried when I went away never expecting to come back. I called her every mont or so and if anyone was coming this way I would get them to take stuff for her.

I came back a year later and was working here for nearly 4 years when I divorced my farang wife of 22 years. My son was 19 then.

I did not mary my girl until 2000 as it took me that long to get a divorce which cost me my house car etc. When I left my UK marriage all I owned fitted into my hired estate car and my former wife wanted all the salary that I earned working for a company.

I went contracting and married my Thai lady and it was the second best thing I did in my life, (divorce was the first). We have been married now for 4 1/2 years and we have our own house with 5 acres of land up country and now have a 3 month old baby boy.

I was out of work for a year while she was up here supervising the house building and I admit I went crazy and strayed for a while. Eventually I came to my senses and came back and I think and hope that she has forgiven me.

I personally know of 5 good marriages from the bar where I first met her and still drink in when I am in Bangkok.

The main point of this saga is that you must give your relationship time.

Listen to all the doomsayers and all the good reports but think carefully on this point.

It is YOUR LIFE, no one elses. Only you can make your mind up.

Perhaps your girl is good, perhaps she is not.

Only YOU can make that decision.

Be patient and take all the time you need.

I hope that you get lucky, I did.

If you are not remember experience is earned the hard way.

[kayo]

I wonder what happened to our Shrek??

[Jockstar]

Kayo. Why are you dragging up old threads? Old threads should stay that way. IMHO

[davidjtayler]

Im now very, very intrigued ... how did the story end ...? What happened to Shrek ...?!

[Jockstar]

What happened to Shrek ...?!

Watch the movie.

[Mossfinn]

Kayo. Why are you dragging up old threads? Old threads should stay that way. IMHO

You're probably right Jockstar, but I found it intriguing seeing the people who posted replies all the way back then.

Also how different the advice was then, to how it is now, very much in the main, subjective rather than what you get now, objective.

Moss

[Old Croc]

Kayo. Why are you dragging up old threads? Old threads should stay that way. IMHO

You're probably right Jockstar, but I found it intriguing seeing the people who posted replies all the way back then.

Also how different the advice was then, to how it is now, very much in the main, subjective rather than what you get now, objective.

Moss

Even Kayos answers back then made some sense.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Kayo. Why are you dragging up old threads? Old threads should stay that way. IMHO

He's got nothing better to do.