Thailand-parallel Universe

[Lancelot]

The longer I stay here, the less I understand the Thais.

A few months ago I went to Pattaya Immigration for an re-entry permit. As always I was "dressed for success" wearing a long sleeve white shirt, dress slacks and lace up shoes. When my mumber was up, I presented my self before the immigration officer. I gave him my pass port and with a polite smile greeted him with a "Sawasdee krap." He looked down his nose at me and said for everyone to hear "You no talking. I talking, you no talk!" and gave me the "I'm the boss" look. I shruged to acknowledge his power and we had no further problems.

A few nights ago I stopped at the Nikon Court (hotel above?) bar at the corner of Soi Buakao and Soi Linkee, opposite 7-11. I got myself a Large Leo from the cooler (self service only) and asked the cashier if she could cash a B 1,000 note. In an instant she became irate and yelled "you have small money, I see you have, you pay small money now!" I shrugged and said "just asking" and gave her a B50 note. I don't remember ever having a problem in there before, so maybe it was PMS, I looked like her ex boyfriend or she ia be-atch in general, but she sure unloaded on me.

On the other hand...

There is a little Thai mom and pop restaurant near my condo on Third Rd and they treat me like I am some kind of celebrity. They can't do enough for me and I get to practice my Thai with the other customers. The food is good and the cook beams when I compliment her on her excellent cooking. If its raining, they loan me an umbrella. When I walk in, they insist that I set in a choice seat near a fan, which is directed solely on me.

My landlord is a chinese-thai and he too can't do enough for me. I travel a lot and sometimes I return to my room as many as six or seven days past my rent due date. I always tell him about my travel plans and offer to pay in advance, but he he usually refuses. "Mai pen rai, no problem. I like you too much, you can go every time, pay when you back."

I know Pattaya is not the real Thailand, its just located in the country, but the huge difference in service attitudes blows my mind. It probably makes some difference that I deal with the owners at my condo and local restaurant as opposed to a surly employee at Nikon Court, but still what a difference in behavior. Strange that when I make the extra effort to get along, it goes to hel_l in a handbasket, but when I make no special effort, I'm very well received.

I like it here but I'm not sure I understand everything I know about it

Edited August 19, 2008 by Lancelot

[roygsd]

The longer I stay here, the less I understand the Thais.

A few months ago I went to Pattaya Immigration for an re-entry permit. As always I was "dressed for success" wearing a long sleeve white shirt, dress slacks and lace up shoes. When my mumber was up, I presented my self before the immigration officer. I gave him my pass port and with a polite smile greeted him with a "Sawasdee krap." He looked down his nose at me and said for everyone to hear "You no talking. I talking, you no talk!" and gave me the "I'm the boss" look. I shruged to acknowledge his power and we had no further problems.

A few nights ago I stopped at the Nikon Court (hotel above?) bar at the corner of Soi Buakao and Soi Linkee, opposite 7-11. I got myself a Large Leo from the cooler (self service only) and asked the cashier if she could cash a B 1,000 note. In an instant she became irate and yelled "you have small money, I see you have, you pay small money now!" I shrugged and said "just asking" and gave her a B50 note. I don't remember ever having a problem in there before, so maybe it was PMS, I looked like her ex boyfriend or she ia be-atch in general, but she sure unloaded on me.

On the other hand...

There is a little Thai mom and pop restaurant near my condo on Third Rd and they treat me like I am some kind of celebrity. They can't do enough for me and I get to practice my Thai with the other customers. The food is good and the cook beams when I compliment her on her excellent cooking. If its raining, they loan me an umbrella. When I walk in, they insist that I set in a choice seat near a fan, which is directed solely on me.

My landlord is a chinese-thai and he too can't do enough for me. I travel a lot and sometimes I return to my room as many as six or seven days past my rent due date. I always tell him about my travel plans and offer to pay in advance, but he he usually refuses. "Mai pen rai, no problem. I like you too much, you can go every time, pay when you back."

I know Pattaya is not the real Thailand, its just located in the country, but the huge difference in service attitudes blows my mind. It probably makes some difference that I deal with the owners at my condo and local restaurant as opposed to a surly employee at Nikon Court, but still what a difference in behavior. Strange that when I make the extra effort to get along, it goes to hel_l in a handbasket, but when I make no special effort, I'm very well received.

I like it here but I'm not sure I understand everything I know about it

Which is exactly why I choose to live in the uk at present!

Last time I was in los we stayed for 8 months travelling about a bit and we leased an apartment in Bkk fo 6 months as our base, that was two months too long as far as I was concerned, near the six month mark the thai way was getting up my nose and I need to be doing something rather than visiting people and places.

Shopping and drinking Martell ( preferably Remy isnt my favourite ) and coke day in day out gets a bit boring after a while,

ad whilst my wife would love to live in los the fact that farangs are restricted from most enterprises puts me right off the idea for now at least!

I feel sorry for those guys that buy bars in Pataya and sit at the bar night after night bored and often pissed out of their skulls until such time as their finances or g/f -wives run out, not all end up like that I know but that isnt my idea of life.

Mind you I have experienced the same sort of differences in attitude as you discribe in the uk as well so I think the problem is that after a while in disneyland you get bored when the reality sinks in.

roy gsd

[12DrinkMore]

I like it here but I'm not sure I understand everything I know about it

Maybe it's your preconception that Thais should be always friendly and smiling. I have had good and bad experiences all over the world in dealing we people, the Thais are just people as well.

Edited August 19, 2008 by 12DrinkMore

[AmeriThai]

I think you've already indirectly answered your own question when you added "On the other hand..." pointing out positive experiences. I think you can chalk off the cranky incidents to just being 'one of those days' or coincidence. Sometimes people are in a good mood, sometimes they aren't. You don't know what sort of things they may have been through before you encountered them. Maybe they'd already interacted with a number of losers or any number of other incidents or reasons that left them in a bad mood just prior to when you met them.

Now, if you'd said everyone you encountered were all in a bad mood, then you might wonder if you'd stepped into the Twilight Zone, or if the problem was you. Then too, sometimes there are some people who tend to fly off the handle no matter what you say or do. People are only human, and not always in top form. Sounds like you handled it well by biting your tongue to diffuse the situation, let it go, and move on.

[alantheembalmer]

Real people...Real world...

[lifeisrandom]

thais who work in service industry might lash out at you because they are being evicted or their boyfriend moved out or a number of other reasons. service industry people are poor people and they always have some problem. plus, serving farang all day would get tiresome dont you think?

[Jingthing]

Getting a reentry permit is like buying a phone top up card. Everyone who pays is approved. Why stress and dress up for that one?

I think your good treatment at the Mom and Pop resto is typical. Just curious, How do you tip there?

Edited August 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[G54]

Treatment at a small local store is often courteous. Many times they remember what you asked for last time and will offer the same again

PMT? (PMS) can affect many but does that condone you lambasting people for having a bad day?

You want to offer a 1,000 Baht note for a single Leo Beer? Maybe they think it is you taking the p*ss?

As for "bad attitude service" do we not get that the world over? So why blame the Thai people for having an off day?

IMHO I believe we have enough problems here without b*tching about such small problems.

[Jingthing]

I pay with 1000 baht all the time at my local 7/11 usually with a purchase of 100 to 200 baht. Not once has a clerk batted an eyebrow in protest. The truth is we often need to use 7/11s to break out 1000s. That is what ATMs spit out.

[RakJungTorlae]

The longer I stay here, the less I understand the Thais.

A few months ago I went to Pattaya Immigration for an re-entry permit. As always I was "dressed for success" wearing a long sleeve white shirt, dress slacks and lace up shoes. When my mumber was up, I presented my self before the immigration officer. I gave him my pass port and with a polite smile greeted him with a "Sawasdee krap." He looked down his nose at me and said for everyone to hear "You no talking. I talking, you no talk!" and gave me the "I'm the boss" look. I shruged to acknowledge his power and we had no further problems.

A few nights ago I stopped at the Nikon Court (hotel above?) bar at the corner of Soi Buakao and Soi Linkee, opposite 7-11. I got myself a Large Leo from the cooler (self service only) and asked the cashier if she could cash a B 1,000 note. In an instant she became irate and yelled "you have small money, I see you have, you pay small money now!" I shrugged and said "just asking" and gave her a B50 note. I don't remember ever having a problem in there before, so maybe it was PMS, I looked like her ex boyfriend or she ia be-atch in general, but she sure unloaded on me.

On the other hand...

There is a little Thai mom and pop restaurant near my condo on Third Rd and they treat me like I am some kind of celebrity. They can't do enough for me and I get to practice my Thai with the other customers. The food is good and the cook beams when I compliment her on her excellent cooking. If its raining, they loan me an umbrella. When I walk in, they insist that I set in a choice seat near a fan, which is directed solely on me.

My landlord is a chinese-thai and he too can't do enough for me. I travel a lot and sometimes I return to my room as many as six or seven days past my rent due date. I always tell him about my travel plans and offer to pay in advance, but he he usually refuses. "Mai pen rai, no problem. I like you too much, you can go every time, pay when you back."

I know Pattaya is not the real Thailand, its just located in the country, but the huge difference in service attitudes blows my mind. It probably makes some difference that I deal with the owners at my condo and local restaurant as opposed to a surly employee at Nikon Court, but still what a difference in behavior. Strange that when I make the extra effort to get along, it goes to hel_l in a handbasket, but when I make no special effort, I'm very well received.

I like it here but I'm not sure I understand everything I know about it

Well you just answered your own question didn’t you? (Location)! The further you get way form the Sex-pat hangout the more likable you become. Yup its that simple.

[GungaDin]

I lived north of JJ Market, not many Farangs, and vendors couldn't do enough for me, esp the food vendors.

Just live away from the action.

[kiakaha]

One of the essential tools for surviving in thailand and maintaining ones zen is a really decent $hit filter...mine is on a permanent setting of maximum.

[vagabond48]

I pay with 1000 baht all the time at my local 7/11 usually with a purchase of 100 to 200 baht. Not once has a clerk batted an eyebrow in protest. The truth is we often need to use 7/11s to break out 1000s. That is what ATMs spit out.

I usually take my 1000 baht bills to the local SCB walk up branch and break it down to 500 baht bills but if I want a local vendor to change a large bill, I ask "ok?" with a

[kmart]

Ever notice that someone else could be having a bad day? It doesn't have to be personally directed at you specifically. Despite being a megalomaniac...

[Samuian]

I think the OP is radically fine tuned, most don't even perceive what he perceived, may ebe his examples weren't too convincing choice, but I know what he intended to air...

There are parallel worlds out there, even parallel people, see Mr.Toxic and his entourage are the living proof of it!

I would even dare to go as far as there are multi layered people and "Thai-land's" out there!

Edited August 20, 2008 by Samuian

[bina]

boy u must have lived in a bubble all over the world; try a jerusalem bus driver any day and see what happens!!!

on the other hand.... get a mom and pop store to change a large bill for a candy bar, no problem.... so its not the country, its the person and their day.... wasnt it in the states that a postal worker had a bad day and shot up his coworkers or something?? ...

have a good day, now, sir

bina

israel

[Samuian]

boy u must have lived in a bubble all over the world; try a jerusalem bus driver any day and see what happens!!!

on the other hand.... get a mom and pop store to change a large bill for a candy bar, no problem.... so its not the country, its the person and their day.... wasnt it in the states that a postal worker had a bad day and shot up his coworkers or something?? ...

have a good day, now, sir

bina

israel

With the only exception that this is NOT an Israel or Indian, neither a Mexican Forum!

Here just one of the famed examples:

"Former TAT Governor Denies Ever Being TAT Governor

Former TAT Governor Juthamas Siriwan threatens to sue anyone who claims she was the TAT Governor"

I have been living in quite a lot of countries in various cultures- I can nensure everyone it's quite a special place and the habitants are no exception!

[Lancelot]

Getting a reentry permit is like buying a phone top up card. Everyone who pays is approved. Why stress and dress up for that one?

I think your good treatment at the Mom and Pop resto is typical. Just curious, How do you tip there?

I was just trying to be polite and sho respect to the bureaucrats down at Immigration. It usually works

I don't tip at my local restaurant; no body does.

QUOTE (bina @ 2008-08-20 11:57:39)

boy u must have lived in a bubble all over the world; try a jerusalem bus driver any day and see what happens!!!

on the other hand.... get a mom and pop store to change a large bill for a candy bar, no problem.... so its not the country, its the person and their day.... wasn't it in the states that a postal worker had a bad day and shot up his coworkers or something?? ...

have a good day, now, sir

bina

israel

Bina, can you please be specific and point out where I said that I've "lived in a bubble" and have implied that the rest of the world is perfect?

So if it's not the person's "day", then it is your belief that its OK to behave badly?

Interesting logic

Regards,

Lance

[PhilHarries]

Three separate incidents.

First with a public servant. Take a step back and look at some of the people this guy has to deal with. It's inevitable that somedays he gets the hump. Think about how you'd feel in his position dealing with some of the dross that are lounging around his country making it look untidy. Also he knows that you have to deal with the office if you wish to stay in Thailand so there's no pressure to be pleasant.

Second with a checkout girl. She also may have been having a bad day but she should realise that her's is not the only 7-11 nor source of beer in town and it is in her interests to care for customers. If it were me I'd have calmly slid the 1000 back in the wallet, put the wallet back in my pocket and the beer back in the fridge. Then I would have said something like "Now I no pay, I win you lose" and walked out.

Third with local restaurant. Pretty normal behaviour from a business who recognises regular trade and wishes to retain that trade because it is good for business. They realise that a friendly approach, a few smiles, a bit of mai bpen rai regarding rent payment goes a long way.

Three examples of human nature. First doesn't need to care so doesn't care, if you don't go back there you have to go someplace else, no skin off his nose. Second should care but, as it's probably not her business, doesn't care as customers are easy come easy go and in an hours time she is off home. The third does care as it is their own business and they realise that they are not the only restaurant in town and need to work to build up trade or go bust.

Pretty much encapsulates human nature anywhere you go.

[HS Mauberley]

So, in short, sometimes you're treated well and sometimes badly, which, of course, happens in not other countries but Thailand.

They're crazy people those Thais.

[Bagwan]

A few nights ago I stopped at the Nikon Court (hotel above?) bar at the corner of Soi Buakao and Soi Linkee, opposite 7-11. I got myself a Large Leo from the cooler (self service only) and asked the cashier if she could cash a B 1,000 note. In an instant she became irate and yelled "you have small money, I see you have, you pay small money now!" I shrugged and said "just asking" and gave her a B50 note. I don't remember ever having a problem in there before, so maybe it was PMS, I looked like her ex boyfriend or she ia be-atch in general, but she sure unloaded on me.

Cue returning the beer to the cold cabinet and telling the irate bitch you are sorry that you bothered her. You are entitled to have a bad day too.

If you look like her ex-boyfriend no wonder she was numpty.

[Lancelot]

Second with a checkout girl. She also may have been having a bad day but she should realise that her's is not the only 7-11 nor source of beer in town and it is in her interests to care for customers. If it were me I'd have calmly slid the 1000 back in the wallet, put the wallet back in my pocket and the beer back in the fridge. Then I would have said something like "Now I no pay, I win you lose" and walked out.

Hi Phil, points taken.

Just to clarify, it wasn't 7-11, it was Nikon Court beer bar opposite a 7-11. In my opinion the 7-11 staff are better trained and seem to be extra polite.

The cashier/check out girl had already opened the bottle of beer so I sorta felt obliged to buy. Some owners make staff pay for losses so even though she was rude, I paid up and walked away.

Maybe its just me, but I think many thais are a bit edgy these days. Maybe a combination of poor economic times, prolonged political instability and maybe a sense of things will not improve anytime soon. I notice them being a bit sharp with each other as well...

[Mattchu9999]

Interesting, the examples you gave we're of bad service from employees and great service from owner operators..... hmmm kinda that way all around the world

[Naam]

A few months ago I went to Pattaya Immigration for an re-entry permit. As always I was "dressed for success" wearing a long sleeve white shirt, dress slacks and lace up shoes.

no jacket and no tie?

[bina]

the whole quetion isnt thai related except for the word thai in the title: customer service and how people deal with others may be somewhat of a nation/ethnic accent to it, but for the most part, it has more to do with city/country employer/employee owner/worker relationships...

i never ran in to blatantly rude poeple in thailand except for those that looked down on my dark issaan husband - and grovelled towards me when seeing 'tourist' written obviously as a farang, all over me... like, ignoring him but talking to me (store keepers in bangkok seeing money before their eyes)...

even i, in all my years of working with tourists and their children local and foreign, and now working with people and their animals in present job, have been known to have a rude day or so. and i am considered a 'mai pben rai' type personality around here, smiley, pleasant, efficient, and cool. but i can be smiley and personal to return customers and rarely, nasty to nasty customers; just less so then most around here.

maybe the 'southern hospitality' type personality of the thai has gotten 'hard' and 'new yorkerish' with the new generations more citified types, and less and less of the 'muu baan isaan country worker with straw in his hair come to work in the big city' types...

the society in general is getting harder and catching up with the west...

bina

[Samuian]

Maybe its just me, but I think many thais are a bit edgy these days. ......... I notice them being a bit sharp with each other as well...

It's like the guy who was ousted, framed and send away from his beloved country, he never did anything wrong either!

they went a long way... to get to "if you may get the blame, find someone you can blame it on to, never ever let your ego down to admit a mistake!"

It's ingrained in this society!

I just love "honest lie", I simply love it, it speaks for everything that is bend and I encountered here!

And above all I love that quite a few expats even try to compete with their Thai counterparts and manage to condone this kind of ego centered behavior!

Especially with drawing parallels to other countries, has nothing to do that this is "there and there the same!"... it's wrong where ever, however, whoever!

I see it everyday.... again and again, if it is brought into the open, first there is rejection, but it can be changed, it's attitude, none else, people can be nice, it DOESN'T hurt a wee bit!

Edited August 20, 2008 by Samuian

[PhilHarries]

I see it everyday.... again and again, if it is brought into the open, first there is rejection, but it can be changed, it's attitude, none else, people can be nice, it DOESN'T hurt a wee bit!

Whilst I agree with you that attitude can be changed IMO human nature cannot, we can only take so much before something snaps. The only question is how much of what we can take and what snaps.

The immigration officer may have just dealt with an unshaven, beer and armpits reeking slob bawling into his mobile whilst shoving his passport and other documents over in an untidy, crumpled heap. Next customer tried to be nice and civil and he snapped.

Maybe the girl in the shop had just had five customers in a row handing over 1000 Baht notes for small purchases. The OP was the sixth and she snapped.

How many of us have never snapped at a family member or colleague only to think later "what an ar5ehole I was"?

But I also agree with bina that society worldwide is getting harder, unfortunately adopting the worst side of western culture. I guess this is the attitude you refer to and, while you are correct in that it doesn't cost nor hurt to be nice, attitude is perceived to be cool.

[barky]

One of the essential tools for surviving in thailand and maintaining ones zen is a really decent $hit filter...mine is on a permanent setting of maximum.

I couldn't have said this better myself. I try hard to ignore everything that is not directly related to me. Minimum eye contact works well, for example.

[Lancelot]

A few months ago I went to Pattaya Immigration for an re-entry permit. As always I was "dressed for success" wearing a long sleeve white shirt, dress slacks and lace up shoes.

no jacket and no tie?

Actually I did wear a jacket and tie.

I also wore a mask identical to the one in your avitar

[Lancelot]

the whole quetion isnt thai related except for the word thai in the title: customer service and how people deal with others may be somewhat of a nation/ethnic accent to it, but for the most part, it has more to do with city/country employer/employee owner/worker relationships...

Well Bina, you certainly were not specific in answering my question so as they say, up to you