Police Fire Tear Gas At Protesters In Front Of Parliament

[jumnien]

which all sounds commendable... except when watching the footage, there are no pick-ups... nor any vehicles... in front of him when he says he was "aiming at a pick-up's tires."

There seems to be a video which shows a PAD truck ploughing into a line of police men. I can't find it on YouTube. Does anyone have more information about it?

Sondhi already explained that the PAD truck driver was merely trying to park and the evil police were disguised as a parking space; totally exonerates any PAD involvement.

[hammered]

Quite a reasonable if negative in outlook piece by Jonathan Head for the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7664064.stm

[catmac]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

In this instance you make a fair point though the evidence seems to be weighted that the problem was the substandard quality of tear gas grenades and poor crowd control/dispersal techniques.Let's see if an independent inquiry can establish the truth.My view is that the PAD all along has been eager to find victims or martyrs for propaganda purposes and this poor girl is being exploited for that reason.Actually this Horst Wessel attitude was something I noted some time ago, and is consistent with fascist street tactics.

Frankly the activities of street thugs (and I'm certainly not putting Khun Angkhana in this category) on whatever side is of marginal interest in the wider scheme of the current struggle.Only the most partisan would disagree that there has been bad behaviour on both sides.But let's not forget that the security forces were upholding the law and the PAD leadership and mob were breaking it.

Says it all, Younghusband.

I see that the smarmy old toad Sondhi is back on stage at Gov. Hse. On the front page of this morning's paper he has a small boy next to him covered in slogans which I doubt the lad could fully understand. Strange how these demagogues like to be surrounded by little children: that classic film of Hitler at his mountain retreat; Stalin (who liked to be called Uncle Joe"; the chilling video of a smirking Saddam with those child hostages, perhaps it's because only little kids can give them that total unquestioning approval?

On the same front page were 4 small sequential photos of first 2, then 3 PAD thugs beating a policeman who had fallen to the ground with sticks or metal bars. Violence is deplorable no matter who uses it, but I know h90 and others wouldn't agree with me there!

Edited October 11, 2008 by catmac

[Samuian]

Quite a reasonable if negative in outlook piece by Jonathan Head for the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7664064.stm

....reads more than an opinion by Mr.Head, than anything new.

[h90]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

In this instance you make a fair point though the evidence seems to be weighted that the problem was the substandard quality of tear gas grenades and poor crowd control/dispersal techniques.Let's see if an independent inquiry can establish the truth.My view is that the PAD all along has been eager to find victims or martyrs for propaganda purposes and this poor girl is being exploited for that reason.Actually this Horst Wessel attitude was something I noted some time ago, and is consistent with fascist street tactics.

Frankly the activities of street thugs (and I'm certainly not putting Khun Angkhana in this category) on whatever side is of marginal interest in the wider scheme of the current struggle.Only the most partisan would disagree that there has been bad behaviour on both sides.But let's not forget that the security forces were upholding the law and the PAD leadership and mob were breaking it.

She is dead, murdered by the government and police, that's a fact. Now bending the facts till the PAD are the bad one and the "SECURITY??? forces" are the good one is just awkward.

Sure you would prefer that PAD does not mention her. Actually calling it fascist to blame the police for murdering a peaceful girl tells it all....

[sriracha john]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.

says you...

If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

says you again...

I didn't express doubts over the report, only that I felt the headline was too definitive at this point compared to the content of the article

[sriracha john]

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The explosive power of a low-quality tear gas grenade was initially thought to have caused the death of Angkhana Radappanyawut, SNIP Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/111008_News/11Oct2008_news16.php

The problem of with the cut and pasting of news articles is that often the qualifiers are left out This cited sections can lead to misinterpretations on the part of readers. I believe that few people if any went to the full article. Those that did, would have read the only lines that were left out of your paste; "However, only comprehensive lab tests could tell whether the materials came from tear gas grenades or belonged to other explosive devices, she added.

I know that no definitive conclusion has been made or stated. The investigation is still underway. Everything reported is speculation. I hope that no one is reading the newspaper account as gospel.

While the blue text was not included in my post... the nearly equal line "However, further examinations are needed to be conducted on samples taken from her body before the results can be confirmed" was, which is why I wrote my red text in next to the headline...

Edited October 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.

says you...

If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

says you again...

I didn't express doubts over the report, only that I felt the headline was too definitive at this point compared to the content of the article

I'm afraid it is a fairly widely held view.No doubt some may consider I have also some room for improvement in this area.The danger is, regardless of political stance, if one doesn't see the other guy's point of view from time to time one ends up like the clownish h90 (or his equivalent on the Thaksinista side).

Slight confession:After making my earlier post I did remember your contribution on the Hippocratic oath discussion which I thought measured and civilised.

[sriracha john]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.

says you...

If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

says you again...

I didn't express doubts over the report, only that I felt the headline was too definitive at this point compared to the content of the article

I'm afraid it is a fairly widely held view.

says you thrice...

[younghusband]

Quite a reasonable if negative in outlook piece by Jonathan Head for the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7664064.stm

More of a summary though none the less useful for that.Few would disagree with the content.I'm not sure I would describe the piece as negative as opposed to ending on a rather puzzled note -i.e where do we go from here.

Incidentally I had a strange feeling when reading Jonathan's article.I suddenly realised that it's not often one reads a piece that is well informed,thoughtful and honest.I think this forum is suffering from a lack of honesty and both sides of the camp are to blame.

[Bangyai]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

In this instance you make a fair point though the evidence seems to be weighted that the problem was the substandard quality of tear gas grenades and poor crowd control/dispersal techniques.Let's see if an independent inquiry can establish the truth.My view is that the PAD all along has been eager to find victims or martyrs for propaganda purposes and this poor girl is being exploited for that reason.Actually this Horst Wessel attitude was something I noted some time ago, and is consistent with fascist street tactics.

Frankly the activities of street thugs (and I'm certainly not putting Khun Angkhana in this category) on whatever side is of marginal interest in the wider scheme of the current struggle.Only the most partisan would disagree that there has been bad behaviour on both sides.But let's not forget that the security forces were upholding the law and the PAD leadership and mob were breaking it.

She is dead, murdered by the government and police, that's a fact. Now bending the facts till the PAD are the bad one and the "SECURITY??? forces" are the good one is just awkward.

Sure you would prefer that PAD does not mention her. Actually calling it fascist to blame the police for murdering a peaceful girl tells it all....

H90, I know that English is not your first language but using sensationalist words does nothing for civilized debate. Murder implies intention and even premeditation. Killed would have been more correct. Personaly, having watched the videos of tear gas rounds exploding and some of the police firing these rounds horizontaly , it does seem quiet probable that they were to blame for her death. However, as Younghusband pointed out, the PAD were breaking the law and the police trying to uphold it. If the outrage being expressed over the tragic death of this young girl was sincere, then the PAD leadership would be equally outraged at the death of the DAAD protester shot by someone within the PAD lines.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Bangyai

[younghusband]

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The explosive power of a low-quality tear gas grenade was initially thought to have caused the death of Angkhana Radappanyawut, SNIP Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/111008_News/11Oct2008_news16.php

The problem of with the cut and pasting of news articles is that often the qualifiers are left out This cited sections can lead to misinterpretations on the part of readers. I believe that few people if any went to the full article. Those that did, would have read the only lines that were left out of your paste; "However, only comprehensive lab tests could tell whether the materials came from tear gas grenades or belonged to other explosive devices, she added.

I know that no definitive conclusion has been made or stated. The investigation is still underway. Everything reported is speculation. I hope that no one is reading the newspaper account as gospel.

While the blue text was not included in my post... the nearly equal line "However, further examinations are needed to be conducted on samples taken from her body before the results can be confirmed" was, which is why I wrote my red text in next to the headline...

Thanks for the clarification which refutes the cynical thought you tinkered with the article to remove a reference that allows the option an explosive device was being carried by the victim.

[hammered]

Quite a reasonable if negative in outlook piece by Jonathan Head for the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7664064.stm

More of a summary though none the less useful for that.Few would disagree with the content.I'm not sure I would describe the piece as negative as opposed to ending on a rather puzzled note -i.e where do we go from here.

Incidentally I had a strange feeling when reading Jonathan's article.I suddenly realised that it's not often one reads a piece that is well informed,thoughtful and honest.I think this forum is suffering from a lack of honesty and both sides of the camp are to blame.

It is the where do we go from here that leaves me feeling negative. I dont like unknowns.

I was just reading about the disgraceful behaviour of people at McCains rallies and it kind of reminds me of things on here at times.

[ace]

which all sounds commendable... except when watching the footage, there are no pick-ups... nor any vehicles... in front of him when he says he was "aiming at a pick-up's tires."

Which footage? You now the PAD used a truck to run over the police?

BTW protestor injuries were due to incorrect use of low quality tear gas grenades, nothing more.

[sriracha john]

PM remains in home as press wait to query about Gen Anupong's comments

The Prime Minister has remained in his residence this morning despite a throng of press members waiting to follow up on current events.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat has mostly remained within his residence at Beverly Hills Village on Chaeng Wattana Road with a large crowd of media gathering around the home. The press are waiting to gain the PM's response concerning Army Commander-in-Chief General Anupong Paochinda's remarks that Somchai should take responsibility for the police dispersal of the People's Alliance for Democracy in front of the Parliament building this past October 7th.

The PM has already postponed his visits to ASEAN nations without giving a reason.

- ThaiNews / 2008-10-11

Edited October 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[Samuian]

It is the where do we go from here that leaves me feeling negative. I dont like unknowns.

I have the impression that things are kept silent, but the lines are pretty much drawn out.

The hefty charges against the 9 PAD leaders are reduced to much smaller offences.

Have a look at Anupongs latest statement, has ever anybody heard from an army chief "the army has learned a lesson"?

Somchai is on his way to Prachuab Kiri Khan, to "inspect cloud seeding", accidentally HM the King happen to be at his Residence in this Province and Somchai may have an Audience with HM the King.

Chavalit wants the army to move in, army refuses, the army want him in return to take responsibility and clear what really happend Tuesday morning, Sondhi wishes the army could shortcut the burdensome path the PAD has chosen to go.

The dissolution of the PPP is near, Somchai in trouble, so their daughter and many others in the government.

It's a bumpy road ahead, let's see if the citizen of this country will get right this time, or will they have to have a "nanny-government" installed in order to get things going in to a more palatable direction?

If so, I think the pans are already in a drawer guess in who's?

It looks very much as if it is now very much left to the judiciary

Edited October 11, 2008 by Samuian

[lazeeboy]

i think he has probably run out of idea's and option ,this country needs a leader and quick....

[h90]

Angkhana Radappanyawut

Low quality grenade took Angkhana's life * at this juncture, the headline, IMO, should be prefaced with "It's possible that" *

The trouble is that you are so wedded to a particular viewpoint that your comments don't carry much weight I'm afraid.If you sometimes expressed doubts over reports that support your position you would be taken more seriously.

In this instance you make a fair point though the evidence seems to be weighted that the problem was the substandard quality of tear gas grenades and poor crowd control/dispersal techniques.Let's see if an independent inquiry can establish the truth.My view is that the PAD all along has been eager to find victims or martyrs for propaganda purposes and this poor girl is being exploited for that reason.Actually this Horst Wessel attitude was something I noted some time ago, and is consistent with fascist street tactics.

Frankly the activities of street thugs (and I'm certainly not putting Khun Angkhana in this category) on whatever side is of marginal interest in the wider scheme of the current struggle.Only the most partisan would disagree that there has been bad behaviour on both sides.But let's not forget that the security forces were upholding the law and the PAD leadership and mob were breaking it.

She is dead, murdered by the government and police, that's a fact. Now bending the facts till the PAD are the bad one and the "SECURITY??? forces" are the good one is just awkward.

Sure you would prefer that PAD does not mention her. Actually calling it fascist to blame the police for murdering a peaceful girl tells it all....

H90, I know that English is not your first language but using sensationalist words does nothing for civilized debate. Murder implies intention and even premeditation. Killed would have been more correct. Personaly, having watched the videos of tear gas rounds exploding and some of the police firing these rounds horizontaly , it does seem quiet probable that they were to blame for her death. However, as Younghusband pointed out, the PAD were breaking the law and the police trying to uphold it. If the outrage being expressed over the tragic death of this young girl was sincere, then the PAD leadership would be equally outraged at the death of the DAAD protester shot by someone within the PAD lines.

How do we call it? She died when the police accidentally throw ping-pong bombs into the peaceful demonstrators?

In fact the police just wanted to play table tennis with them to ease the tension.

For unknown reason the balls exploded. so just a accident.

At least better than "she carried an invisible bomb under her arm" or the bomb in his pocket blow away his food (but left the pocked unharmed).

No no sure no intention....just honest mistakes. No lies as well...just honest mistakes.

How can I dare to imply something bad to the police or PPP, as they have such a good record of being honest and peaceful.

[sriracha john]

which all sounds commendable... except when watching the footage, there are no pick-ups... nor any vehicles... in front of him when he says he was "aiming at a pick-up's tires."

Which footage?

here:

http://www.oknation.net/blog/tyty1789/2008/10/08/entry-1

You now the PAD used a truck to run over the police?

Has that incident (in a different location, btw) been definitively determined and adjudicated?

BTW protestor injuries were due to incorrect use of low quality tear gas grenades, nothing more.

Now I know that has NOT been definitively determined... younghusband, I'm sure, would verify that, as we've just been around and around about it.

Edited October 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[h90]

It is the where do we go from here that leaves me feeling negative. I dont like unknowns.

I have the impression that things are kept silent, but the lines are pretty much drawn out.

The hefty charges against the 9 PAD leaders are reduced to much smaller offences.

Have a look at Anupongs latest statement, has ever anybody heard from an army chief "the army has learned a lesson"?

Somchai is on his way to Prachuab Kiri Khan, to "inspect cloud seeding", accidentally HM the King happen to be at his Residence in this Province and Somchai may have an Audience with HM the King.

Chavalit wants the army to move in, army refuses, the army want him in return to take responsibility and clear what really happend Tuesday morning, Sondhi wishes the army could shortcut the burdensome path the PAD has chosen to go.

The dissolution of the PPP is near, Somchai in trouble, so their daughter and many others in the government.

It's a bumpy road ahead, let's see if the citizen of this country will get right this time, or will they have to have a "nanny-government" installed in order to get things going in to a more palatable direction?

If so, I think the pans are already in a drawer guess in who's?

It looks very much as if it is now very much left to the judiciary

They can still change the constitution and they may try.

Courts can take another few month with dissolving the parties and dissolving the parliament at the same time everything may move in a situation which is outside the constitution.

So that road is very bumpy and it is not sure where it leads to.

[Samuian]

At least better than "she carried an invisible bomb under her arm" or the bomb in his pocket blow away his food (but left the pocked unharmed).

No no sure no intention....just honest mistakes. No lies as well...just honest mistakes.

How can I dare to imply something bad to the police or PPP, as they have such a good record of being honest and peaceful.

it's getting ever quirkier, now Pornthip's group can't detect any traces of explosives... let's see waht she comes finally up with.

Poor girl and her relatives, suddenly ripped away from them, away from a life that merely had begun...!

besides in "THE NATION":

"While not explaining his decision to cancel his trip, Somchai did answer reporters' questions about whether he planned to dissolve Parliament or resign to end the political crisis, saying he would consider all opinions and demands.

"The country belongs to all of us, but let me see what I can do for the national interest," he said."

Source:

Well let's see what he meant with this exactly, may his self-exiled brother and Sister in law...?

Edited October 11, 2008 by Samuian

[h90]

At least better than "she carried an invisible bomb under her arm" or the bomb in his pocket blow away his food (but left the pocked unharmed).

No no sure no intention....just honest mistakes. No lies as well...just honest mistakes.

How can I dare to imply something bad to the police or PPP, as they have such a good record of being honest and peaceful.

it's getting ever quirkier, now Pornthip's group can't detect any traces of explosives... let's see waht she comes finally up with.

Poor girl and her relatives, suddenly ripped away from them, away from a life that merely had begun...!

besides in "THE NATION":

"While not explaining his decision to cancel his trip, Somchai did answer reporters' questions about whether he planned to dissolve Parliament or resign to end the political crisis, saying he would consider all opinions and demands.

"The country belongs to all of us, but let me see what I can do for the national interest," he said."

Source:

Well let's see what he meant with this exactly, may his self-exiled brother and Sister in law...?

over that case we should not forget the people who lost a leg or hand.

[h90]

At least better than "she carried an invisible bomb under her arm" or the bomb in his pocket blow away his food (but left the pocked unharmed).

No no sure no intention....just honest mistakes. No lies as well...just honest mistakes.

How can I dare to imply something bad to the police or PPP, as they have such a good record of being honest and peaceful.

it's getting ever quirkier, now Pornthip's group can't detect any traces of explosives... let's see waht she comes finally up with.

Poor girl and her relatives, suddenly ripped away from them, away from a life that merely had begun...!

besides in "THE NATION":

"While not explaining his decision to cancel his trip, Somchai did answer reporters' questions about whether he planned to dissolve Parliament or resign to end the political crisis, saying he would consider all opinions and demands.

"The country belongs to all of us, but let me see what I can do for the national interest," he said."

Source:

Well let's see what he meant with this exactly, may his self-exiled brother and Sister in law...?

All of us: "Me, my wife, my brother in law, his wife, our children, etc etc. That country belongs to all of us...."

It is always nice to see traditional families which honestly share between each other.

[Samuian]

..........edit..

"The country belongs to all of us, but let me see what I can do for the national interest," he said."

Well let's see what he meant with this exactly, may his self-exiled brother and Sister in law...?

..over that case we should not forget the people who lost a leg or hand.

...their life...!

[Rajah]

She died when the police accidentally throw ping-pong bombs into the peaceful demonstrators?

Very peaceful indeed.

[sbk]

Frivolous use of the report button is occurring in this and other PAD threads.

May I suggest that all parties posting in this thread read the forum rules closely and carefully before reporting everything and anything?

[Samuian]

She died when the police accidentally throw ping-pong bombs into the peaceful demonstrators?

Very peaceful indeed.

It doesn't proof anything and does certainly NOT condone the loss of life and limbs!

Was this reaction triggered by these circumstances?

What is the time of the picture taken?

[h90]

She died when the police accidentally throw ping-pong bombs into the peaceful demonstrators?

Very peaceful indeed.

It was peaceful before the police attacked them! I am a Pacifist, but if the Police bombed away my friends legs and arms and come to make the same with me, I would take the next club and strike BACK.

Show me any evidence where PAD started any violence.

[camerata]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

[Thai at Heart]

There's a good account of what happened on October 7th by a Western news photograher here. Plenty of photos too.

I recommend everyone to read this. It confirms and challenges many of the pieces of information we are getting from the domestic media.

Edited October 11, 2008 by Thai at Heart