How Safe Are The Banks?

[SirPaul]

In the UK, money deposited in banks is currently gauranteed to £50,000

The idea behind this is so that we do not experience a repeat of what happened with "Northern Rock". Here, customers of the bank were queueing all night to get their money out. This action affected the share price of the bank to the point where it was suspended and the government were forced to Nationalise it. It was the slow response from the government that everybody criticised as the general opinion was that it should not have got to the stage where there was a "run on the bank".

Does anyone know if depositers money is gauranteed in Thailand. What banks are considered safe and what banks are considered a bit iffy?

I feel it is best to have more than one account.

[SirPaul]

Well with 6 people reading this in only 10 minutes, you can only assume there is a general interest in the question of this thread, but no one knows the answer...

[bendix]

Or maybe they don't particularly care.

I don't think many expats here keep too much cash in Thai banks. I certainly have no savings here and just use my two accounts to process salary etc.

If they collapsed, I'd be annoyed, but not seriously inconvenienced.

Having said that I would imagine the risks of the larger Thai Banks collapsing are next to zero. I personally feel that despite the obvious impact of the crisis on things like tourism etc, Thailand's traditional insularity and isolationism (that very thing most of us find frustrating) will actually help mitigate most of the damage.

In my limited understanding, while THai's obviously do take out mortgages for houses, it's to nowhere the level or recklessness which has caused this mess in the US and Europe. The borrowing culture is different. Many people are paying for these expensive condos in cash and sitting on them, even if the prices are falling. It's a different attitude to wealth acquisition.

Frankly, I wouldnt worry about it.

[churchill]

I am considering depositing in Anglo Irish IOM - 7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw upto 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov

[zorro1]

I am considering depositing in Anglo Irish IOM - 7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw upto 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov

Are you Irish? is there a tax to pay on withdrawal as a non citizen? I'm just curious

[churchill]

check it out http://angloirishbank.co.im/Personal_Savin...count/index.htm

[chiang mai]

Read the "Stash the Cash" thread for chapter and verse on all of this.

[champee]

Key Features of the Deposit Protection Act

The key features of the Deposit Protection Act which has been approved the Nation Ligislation on 19 December 2007 and announced in the Government Gazette on February 13, 2008 could be summarized as follows :

1. The Deposit Protection Agency is a juristic person separate from the Bank of Thailand, managed by the Deposit Protection Board. The Agency is responsible for making compensation to depositors and managing a failed financial institution.

2. Membership of the Deposit Protection Agency is compulsory for commercial banks, foreign bank branches, finance companies and credit foncier companies. The members will pay premiums to the Agency at the rate not exceeding 1% of its average amount of insured deposits. The rate may be set as a flat rate or differential rate according to type or performance of the member.

3. The maximum coverage is 1 million baht per depositor per institution. The amount of deposit exceeds this coverage is to be recovered from assets of the failed institution through the process of liquidation.

The authority plans to gradually reduce coverage from full guarantee to the target amount within 4 years. The first year of the establishment of the Agency the full coverage will be remained, and each year afterwards the coverage will be reduced to 100 million, 50 million, 10 million and finanlly 1 million baht.

4. The Deposit Protection Agency will act as a liquidator of a failed financial institution, reimburse for the compensation made and also make payment to other creditors according to thier shares.

[keestha]

In my limited understanding, while THai's obviously do take out mortgages for houses, it's to nowhere the level or recklessness which has caused this mess in the US and Europe. The borrowing culture is different.

Could be, but bank loans gone bad was one of the major reasons of the 1997 Asian financial crisis, which started in Thailand.

[SirPaul]

In my limited understanding, while THai's obviously do take out mortgages for houses, it's to nowhere the level or recklessness which has caused this mess in the US and Europe. The borrowing culture is different.

Could be, but bank loans gone bad was one of the major reasons of the 1997 Asian financial crisis, which started in Thailand.

The common mistake here is to think that a bank only has dealings in its own country. When the first news of the credit crunch came-out last August 2007, I thought the problem was only in the US and would not affect the UK. I soon learnt that the UK banks had a large stake in the USA.

So, how much overseas investment is done by the big Thai banks? The temptation to do this when things were good was very strong as the returns that could be made by the bankers were significant. It is this overseas investment that turns into subprime debt, and leaves banks in debt for billions. This is where the crisis is.

So the question here is how much overseas activity has been going on by Thailand's big banks?

[stuandchris]

American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.

I will leave it up to you what to do about that.

[lannarebirth]

American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.

I will leave it up to you what to do about that.

I have seen nothing on this. Got a link?

[SirPaul]

American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.

I will leave it up to you what to do about that.

I have seen nothing on this. Got a link?

some people are saying that Thai banks are in a good position as they practice a policy of not being involved on a global scale, other people are saying they are dependant on foreign investment.

[Naam]

American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.

I will leave it up to you what to do about that.

I have seen nothing on this. Got a link?

do you expect a link on rubbish?

[LaoPo]

I am considering depositing in Anglo Irish IOM - 7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw upto 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov

.....You MUST be joking..right ?

Don't you follow the news ? Have you been on a 6 months hunting trip for the Last-one-and-Only-Mysterious Great Thai Ape in the jungle up north without mobile, internet and drum contacts in the outer world ???; maybe on a 7 months submarine voyage under the Arctic ?

:D

...I see......you ARE joking ! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

I didn't notice this was the Jokes Thread as I almost fell of my chair laughing about the other joke from the chap who said ""American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.""

It's good to have a good laugh after a long day.

LaoPo

[PCA]

All this mess accelerated thanks to Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke, the biggest mistake ever made since I play markets. And this could only be topped by the rest of the world jumping into that plan right away. What should have been done is to let the faulty banks go down including their shareholders. Alan Greenspan though the far worse crook would have handled that shit differently pretty sure but on the other hand that would just have postponed the unavoidable. Anyway here we are going to write a masterpiece of financial history with probably horrible consequences, letting the recent stock markets meltdown seem like a walk through the park.

I dont talk for myself in this regard as such easy and fast money made by the skilled is probably as rare as finding a suitcase full with money in a taxi.

As well do I see myself and others in this business getting emotional and hoepefully this is seed for a change.

Edited October 9, 2008 by PCA

[Gary A]

There are two certain things in our short lives. They are that you are going to pay taxes and that you are going to die. You have the option of not worrying about things you have no control over or worrying yourself into an early death.

[thaihome]

...So the question here is how much overseas activity has been going on by Thailand's big banks?

Thai Bank Losses Minor

TH

[churchill]

I am considering depositing in Anglo Irish IOM - 7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw upto 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov

.....You MUST be joking..right ?

Don't you follow the news ? Have you been on a 6 months hunting trip for the Last-one-and-Only-Mysterious Great Thai Ape in the jungle up north without mobile, internet and drum contacts in the outer world ???; maybe on a 7 months submarine voyage under the Arctic ?

:D

...I see......you ARE joking ! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

I didn't notice this was the Jokes Thread as I almost fell of my chair laughing about the other joke from the chap who said ""American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.""

It's good to have a good laugh after a long day.

LaoPo

No I wasn't joking - IOM have also offered a 50,000 guarantee on accounts . I was also considering Nationwide BS or Alliance and Leicester but am not an expert and in these difficult times it would be helpful for people to offer better alternatives rather than thinking we are all idiots just because we have not got the finacial knowledge you think you have . PS Most of my funds are in gold and general and have been for the last 3 years - so maybe not so stupid - but I want to find a safe location for some cash .without any tie ins Any helpful suggestions welcome .

Edited October 10, 2008 by churchill

[SirPaul]

All this mess accelerated thanks to Mr. Paulson and Mr. Bernanke, the biggest mistake ever made since I play markets. And this could only be topped by the rest of the world jumping into that plan right away. What should have been done is to let the faulty banks go down including their shareholders. Alan Greenspan though the far worse crook would have handled that shit differently pretty sure but on the other hand that would just have postponed the unavoidable. Anyway here we are going to write a masterpiece of financial history with probably horrible consequences, letting the recent stock markets meltdown seem like a walk through the park.

I dont talk for myself in this regard as such easy and fast money made by the skilled is probably as rare as finding a suitcase full with money in a taxi.

As well do I see myself and others in this business getting emotional and hoepefully this is seed for a change.

The government responses so far around the world have all been reactionary rather than useful. Basically, they act too late. There is little faith at the moment that the market can sort itself out, well this is what our governments beleive.

Tha banks seem OK, and there are no horror stories so far. But have the thai government or any authority, made any efforts to gaurantee savers deposits. If not, there could ba a sudden run on the banks which would be disasterous for the banks.

[yeti]

What banks are considered safe and what banks are considered a bit iffy?

1997 lesson is that Siam Commercial Bank is probably the safest: main shareholder is the Crown Property Bureau and Thai government will do whatever it takes to bail it out if it is in trouble (like they did in 97).

Worst bank is probably Thai Military Bank as they were already in trouble before the financial crisis (but most military personnel have their money there, si I doubt it'd go down anyway).

[LaoPo]

I am considering depositing in Anglo Irish IOM - 7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw upto 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov

.....You MUST be joking..right ?

Don't you follow the news ? Have you been on a 6 months hunting trip for the Last-one-and-Only-Mysterious Great Thai Ape in the jungle up north without mobile, internet and drum contacts in the outer world ???; maybe on a 7 months submarine voyage under the Arctic ?

:D

...I see......you ARE joking ! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

I didn't notice this was the Jokes Thread as I almost fell of my chair laughing about the other joke from the chap who said ""American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.""

It's good to have a good laugh after a long day.

LaoPo

No I wasn't joking - IOM have also offered a 50,000 guarantee on accounts . I was also considering Nationwide BS or Alliance and Leicester but am not an expert and in these difficult times it would be helpful for people to offer better alternatives rather than thinking we are all idiots just because we have not got the finacial knowledge you think you have . PS Most of my funds are in gold and general and have been for the last 3 years - so maybe not so stupid - but I want to find a safe location for some cash .without any tie ins Any helpful suggestions welcome .

I hope you understood I was ironic.

BUT, in these times it's absolutely absurd that ANY bank/Goverment offers "7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw up to 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov".

A(ny) client wanting to stash his money into such a Bank, EVEN with a Guarantee from the Irish Government, should think twice, especially with the ongoing debacle with the Banks in Iceland, the world wide Banking crisis and collapse of LARGE Banks as well.

The danger lies in the enormous inflow of Billions into Ireland and there is NO WAY the Irish Government is able to fulfill it's obligations anymore if your bank collapses and all those Billions have disappeared. Now, don't tell ME that that is a no-go possibility.

Maybe, just maybe, the -GREEDY- investors will get (a part of) their money back but it will take a long time, IF they get their money back.

It's unbelievable some people still don't get it and go ahead putting their hard earned cash into dodgy investment schemes -guaranteed or not- , blinded as they are with percentage of 7,21%.......

Note: keep in mind that a country like Ireland has a relatively small GDP with just 4 Million people....that's a lot more than the 300,000 people from Iceland but still a minor country and they will NOT BE ABLE to handle a disaster if a multi Billion €/$/GBP Bank collapses.

In that case Ireland has to knock on the doors of the UK and Europe.

It will be a long time before one gets his money back, if at all.

LaoPo

Edited October 12, 2008 by LaoPo

[chiang mai]

I am considering depositing in Anglo Irish IOM - 7.21% for 1 year with an option to withdraw upto 20% with no penalty - Funds guaranteed by Irish Gov

.....You MUST be joking..right ?

Don't you follow the news ? Have you been on a 6 months hunting trip for the Last-one-and-Only-Mysterious Great Thai Ape in the jungle up north without mobile, internet and drum contacts in the outer world ???; maybe on a 7 months submarine voyage under the Arctic ?

:D

...I see......you ARE joking ! Sorry for my misunderstanding.

I didn't notice this was the Jokes Thread as I almost fell of my chair laughing about the other joke from the chap who said ""American banks have just stated that they will no longer guarentee Asain bank debts.""

It's good to have a good laugh after a long day.

LaoPo

No I wasn't joking - IOM have also offered a 50,000 guarantee on accounts . I was also considering Nationwide BS or Alliance and Leicester but am not an expert and in these difficult times it would be helpful for people to offer better alternatives rather than thinking we are all idiots just because we have not got the finacial knowledge you think you have . PS Most of my funds are in gold and general and have been for the last 3 years - so maybe not so stupid - but I want to find a safe location for some cash .without any tie ins Any helpful suggestions welcome .

I think that Nationwide IOM is a perfectly sensible choice for Brits wanting a decent rate of return on GBP. Perhaps best to consider a ceiling of £50k which is fully covered off but having said that, I have double that amount on a one year fix - it's not exactly an outrageous gamble.

[LaoPo]

I think that

1. Nationwide IOM is a perfectly sensible choice for Brits wanting a decent rate of return on GBP.

Perhaps best to

2. consider a ceiling of £50k which is fully covered off but having said that, I have double that amount on a one year fix - it's not exactly an outrageous gamble.

Our posts crossed, and in case you didn't read my answer, here's the link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Safe-Banks-t...62#entry2270362

I help you hoping but your thinking is wishful thinking.

One could ask him/herself the question WHERE and HOW*** does this bank makes MORE than 7,21%... Where do they invest MY money and reach at LEAST 7,5 - 7,7% in order to make a small profit ?

Maybe you should ask some of our financial whiz-Gentlemen here on TV, like Naam, Lannarebirth and even our American friend, Uncle VegasVic and a few others, WHERE they are able to make 7,21% at this very moment, which money -as an extra bonus- is guaranteed by a Government.

I have the answer for you: they would probably invest a large part of their money for such a return, guaranteed and backed by a reliable Government.

It would be nice quiet time with nights full of comfortable sleep and dreams not having to worry about your money anymore....

Note:

*** found it for you:

How come I get the creeps if I read this ?:

http://www.iniom.com/financial_sec.asp

The 2007 annual report from the owners/parents of Irish Nationwide (IOM), "Irish Nationwide Building Society"

"The Society's current credit rating status from Moody's is ''Baa1/P2'' deposit rating and a ''C-'' financial strength rating.

The Society's current credit rating status from Fitch is long term ''BBB+'' and short term ''F1+''."

Not exactly a Triple AAA status, is it ?

My conclusions:

1. with the present collapse of the Mortgage Industry, also in the UK, the SHARP declining house prices, the worldwide Banking crisis and the uncertainty in the economy I think it's a scandal that a Bank, owned by a Mortgage Parent (Irish Nationwide Building Society)**** is still offering such high percentages because it is IMPOSSIBLE to reach such yields.

It's about time some people warn the Irish Government because here's another debacle on the horizon.

2. WHY is the Bank registered on the Island of Man and the Mother/Parent registered in Dublin/Ireland (and THUS the assets and reserves are in Ireland, not on Man) ? What are the reasons for that ?

**** They (The mortgage parent) have € 16 Billion in assets (underlying value of houses, they granted mortgages for)......and € 1,5 Billion in total reserves.

BUT:

1. I can't find any of such numbers or Annual Reports from the bank itself; WHY NOT ?

2. How much would those assets be worth NOW (and not December 31, 2007...) ? and WHO would buy those assets, in case of a collapse of their daughter: Irish Nationwide (IOM) ?

3. IF Irish Nationwide (IOM) on the Island of Man collapses, is the Mother/Parent bound to pay out the clients of IOM and will there be enough money ? (NO: since they have just € 1,5 Billion in reserves)

I wish you luck !

But, maybe you feel better after reading this and my worries are not funded at all....:

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/your-money/savi...fe-savings.aspx

QUESTION: does anyone know how much money has been invested already in Irish Nationwide (IOM) Bank ? How many € Billion ?

LaoPo

[imaneggspurt]

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=10077807

[whatsoever]

Or maybe they don't particularly care.

I don't think many expats here keep too much cash in Thai banks. I certainly have no savings here and just use my two accounts to process salary etc.

If they collapsed, I'd be annoyed, but not seriously inconvenienced.

Having said that I would imagine the risks of the larger Thai Banks collapsing are next to zero. I personally feel that despite the obvious impact of the crisis on things like tourism etc, Thailand's traditional insularity and isolationism (that very thing most of us find frustrating) will actually help mitigate most of the damage.

In my limited understanding, while THai's obviously do take out mortgages for houses, it's to nowhere the level or recklessness which has caused this mess in the US and Europe. The borrowing culture is different. Many people are paying for these expensive condos in cash and sitting on them, even if the prices are falling. It's a different attitude to wealth acquisition.

Frankly, I wouldnt worry about it.

I hope those reading you post know what absoulute nonsense you espouse. I know many foreigners who have considerable funds in both baht and currency accounts with Thai banks. Further, one just has to look around to see the overkill in the property and general constuction market - all financed by banks that will be left with a bunch of white elephants when the wheel comes off.

[zorro1]

I see on CNN all Australian banks accounts now guaranteed by the government. Easy for them to do oz banking system very safe anyway an extremely unlikely they would have gone down

[LaoPo]

My conclusions:

1. with the present collapse of the Mortgage Industry, also in the UK, the SHARP declining house prices,

LaoPo

U.K. Sept. house prices off 12.4% on year

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/uk-h...3-ED3757C13A7A}

LaoPo

[churchill]

I think that

1. Nationwide IOM is a perfectly sensible choice for Brits wanting a decent rate of return on GBP.

Perhaps best to

2. consider a ceiling of £50k which is fully covered off but having said that, I have double that amount on a one year fix - it's not exactly an outrageous gamble.

Our posts crossed, and in case you didn't read my answer, here's the link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Safe-Banks-t...62#entry2270362

I help you hoping but your thinking is wishful thinking.

One could ask him/herself the question WHERE and HOW*** does this bank makes MORE than 7,21%... Where do they invest MY money and reach at LEAST 7,5 - 7,7% in order to make a small profit ?

Maybe you should ask some of our financial whiz-Gentlemen here on TV, like Naam, Lannarebirth and even our American friend, Uncle VegasVic and a few others, WHERE they are able to make 7,21% at this very moment, which money -as an extra bonus- is guaranteed by a Government.

I have the answer for you: they would probably invest a large part of their money for such a return, guaranteed and backed by a reliable Government.

It would be nice quiet time with nights full of comfortable sleep and dreams not having to worry about your money anymore....

Note:

*** found it for you:

How come I get the creeps if I read this ?:

http://www.iniom.com/financial_sec.asp

The 2007 annual report from the owners/parents of Irish Nationwide (IOM), "Irish Nationwide Building Society"

"The Society's current credit rating status from Moody's is ''Baa1/P2'' deposit rating and a ''C-'' financial strength rating.

The Society's current credit rating status from Fitch is long term ''BBB+'' and short term ''F1+''."

Not exactly a Triple AAA status, is it ?

My conclusions:

1. with the present collapse of the Mortgage Industry, also in the UK, the SHARP declining house prices, the worldwide Banking crisis and the uncertainty in the economy I think it's a scandal that a Bank, owned by a Mortgage Parent (Irish Nationwide Building Society)**** is still offering such high percentages because it is IMPOSSIBLE to reach such yields.

It's about time some people warn the Irish Government because here's another debacle on the horizon.

2. WHY is the Bank registered on the Island of Man and the Mother/Parent registered in Dublin/Ireland (and THUS the assets and reserves are in Ireland, not on Man) ? What are the reasons for that ?

**** They (The mortgage parent) have € 16 Billion in assets (underlying value of houses, they granted mortgages for)......and € 1,5 Billion in total reserves.

BUT:

1. I can't find any of such numbers or Annual Reports from the bank itself; WHY NOT ?

2. How much would those assets be worth NOW (and not December 31, 2007...) ? and WHO would buy those assets, in case of a collapse of their daughter: Irish Nationwide (IOM) ?

3. IF Irish Nationwide (IOM) on the Island of Man collapses, is the Mother/Parent bound to pay out the clients of IOM and will there be enough money ? (NO: since they have just € 1,5 Billion in reserves)

I wish you luck !

But, maybe you feel better after reading this and my worries are not funded at all....:

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/your-money/savi...fe-savings.aspx

QUESTION: does anyone know how much money has been invested already in Irish Nationwide (IOM) Bank ? How many € Billion ?

LaoPo

I agree with your view on the Irish Guarantee , which if it came to it would not help very much . So will probably deposit with Nationwide IOM , which I don't think is in way connected to Irish Nationwide IOM ?

[LaoPo]

I agree with your view on the Irish Guarantee , which if it came to it would not help very much . So will probably deposit with Nationwide IOM , which I don't think is in way connected to Irish Nationwide IOM ?

...wrong....they have the SAME Parent: Irish Nationwide Building Society

"Nationwide International Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nationwide Building Society."

http://www.nil.co.im/home_files/about.htm

But, I have to admit it's VERY confusing which "NATIONWIDE" is appearing in WHICH News articles and/or television.

There's also the British NATIONWIDE (maybe you mean this one) which has a subsidiary on IOM:

http://www.nationwideinternational.com/

Very confusing indeed.

LaoPo