Wat Phra Dhammakaya

[tycann]

I'm sorry to rant, but I'm at my wit's end with what Dhammakaya is doing to Buddhism in Thailand. I beg you that if you are now, or considering partaking in this cult, to stop and give yourself a good slap in the face. Dhammakaya is essentially Scientology, but it's actually managed to disguise itself as part and parcel of a legitimate religious tradition. Apparently, even the leading candidate to become the next Sangharaja is in their back pocket.

I've taken steps today to piss a lot of people off in a formal letter I've written on this subject , and might find myself alienated from some of my peers, but I just can' t stand the Buddhadhamma becoming a sales pitch. Arch-capitalist furor has already razed most of what is pure in this world, and while orthodox Buddhism in Thailand is no exception to this, I just can't see the blatant disrespect of the Dhammakaya CEOs and nutcases totally destroy the Dhamma in this land.

[bankei]

I agree completely

[Neeranam]

There's a sect of Buddhism called Dhammakaya. Not sure if the spelling is right. Can anyone tell me more about it?

I believe it is for wealthy Thai followers.

[Plus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammakaya_Movement

[jamesc2000]

There's a sect of Buddhism called Dammagaya. Not sure if the spelling is right. Can anyone tell me more about it?

I believe it is for wealthy Thai followers.

There is a sect of Buddhism just for wealthy Thais? Why would you want to join that?

[Neeranam]

There's a sect of Buddhism called Dammagaya. Not sure if the spelling is right. Can anyone tell me more about it?

I believe it is for wealthy Thai followers.

There is a sect of Buddhism just for wealthy Thais? Why would you want to join that?

I don't, but seems many do.

[seonai]

In my experience Neer, the Dammakaya are a well dodgy bunch (to be said with a real Scottish accent!) They have odd beliefs and use a strange form of meditation using a visualised cristal ballwhich is taken inside the body. Lots of land deals and other scams associated with them too. And lots of dosh.

[Neeranam]

They have their own tv channel too which I get on cable - always the same monk - quite funny but not really monklike if you know what I mean.

[seonai]

Yes they play that TV channel at all their centres in a sort of indoctrinating fashion and when they meditate en mass at the big temple near Bangkok Airport they sit in a Hitleresque way in a triangle all perfect and ordered. I used to run a Buddhist discussion group in Bkk abd nothing good was ever said about them. Several top Thai ministers are members.

[chownah]

Sitting in an ordered fashion is "Hitleresque"?

[seonai]

not exactly but the formation reminds one of Hitlers rallies

[chownah]

Seonai,

I really don't understand...can you explain?

Chownah

[kratindaeng]

Dhammakaya, isnt it a whitening cream used in Thai soap operas?

[seonai]

Hi Chow, It wasn't actally my terminology, I stole it from one of the members of my Buddhist Group. They likened the way Hitler supporters all raised their hand in 'Hail Hitler' to the way the Dhammakaya followers follow the religion. I agreed with him. Does that sort it out?

[chownah]

Hi Chow, It wasn't actally my terminology, I stole it from one of the members of my Buddhist Group. They likened the way Hitler supporters all raised their hand in 'Hail Hitler' to the way the Dhammakaya followers follow the religion. I agreed with him. Does that sort it out?

Good enough I guess, Thanks, Chownah

[robitusson]

In Tibetan Buddhism the Dharmakaya is the beginingless body of primordial truth. I've heard a lot of Westerners querie if this is analogous with the concept of God.

I'd never heard about the sect until I read this thread to be honest.

Edited July 30, 2007 by robitusson

[sabaijai]

In Tibetan Buddhism the Dharmakaya is the beginingless body of primordial truth. I've heard a lot of Westerners querie if this is analogous with the concept of God.

I'd never heard about the sect until I read this thread to be honest.

It has a very similar connotation in Thai Buddhism. The Dhammakaya school believes that the Dhammakaya - acquired through their style of meditation (on a crystal ball) - is the primordial truth (from what I can tell reading their religious literature at least).

[Stephen Cleary]

Some of the nonsense that Dhammakaya used to teach their disciples in the past is unbeliveable.

Disciples were (Perhaps still are) taught Luang Pu Wat Paknam was a truly miracle monk who had supernatural powers. Many of these miracles made newspaper headlines for weeks on end. It was taught that during WWII the allied powers had plans to test out their atomic bomb on Bangkok! It was only through intensive meditation by Dhammkaya monks that Japan was bombed instead!

Not only that, there were headline reports of Dhammakaya nuns floating in the sky the same time as bombed rained down. Quite miraculously none of those bombed fell on Dhammakaya. The source of such reports? Dhammakaya and their followers.

[AmeriThai]

Has anyone at TV been to this mega wat located somewhat north of the Don Meung Airport? It appears the sheer size of the entire compound is enormous: about 4 square kilometers. I understand its been somewhat controversial from its lavish hi-tech architectural design.

There had also been some issues over money involving fraud, embezzlement and corruption. However, it seems to continue attracting a large number of people, mostly younger (middle-class and up) urban residents who are financially comfortable, so I’m guessing the money problem has been somewhat resolved. It claims to have over a million members worldwide.

Although the design of the Memorial Hall building is said to incorporate Buddhist symbolism, the flak was that it’s too lavish, gawdy, and unlike the traditional design of wats in Thailand. I’m guessing those opposed to the design are probably those who are older and more conservative with preference to the age old design traditions. Frankly, it seems to resemble a large UFO. However the argument in support is that the style was to bring it more in line with modern architectural design. Interestingly, the golden part of the roof contains around 300,000 golden Buddha images with another 700,000 yet to be installed.

The wat also seems to have a small international outreach program building schools, providing humanity assistance to the poor, and teaching meditation techniques. It also provides financial aid and supplies to schools and temples in Southern Thailand.

Regardless of some of the questionable aspects, the entire compound appears to be an extremely impressive work of modern architecture that‘s completely unlike the styling of any Thai wats. I've been out that direction many times, but have never seen it or even knew about it. I’d be interested in hearing your impressions.

Photo Collections

http://www.twip.org/image-southeast-asia-t...13577-7472.html

http://www.dhammakaya.or.th/visitorzone/de..._page_01_en.php

Official Website

http://www.dhammakaya.or.th/

Articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Phra_Dhammakaya

http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazin...628/monks1.html

http://www.seapabkk.org/fellowships/2002/yasmin.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/428838.stm

http://web.abo.fi/comprel/temenos/temeno32/horn.htm

[Brucenkhamen]

It's generally considered to be a cult.

[AmeriThai]

I understand it's not exactly conventional, and seems to crop up with scandal from time to time maybe a little too often. But I was referring more to the design style in comparison to traditional wats. On the one hand, overall it's been given a pretty remarkable design, although the UFO-style Memorial Hall looks rather odd. But perhaps not so much more than the Elephant Plaza or the Robot Building in BKK. But I do wonder how others view it. Do they see it as a waste of money (since it cost a fortune to build)? Do they see it as an ugly monstrosity that's completely out of place? Or do they see it as an impressive piece of architecture? Regardless, I'm looking at it more from the general design rather than its practice.

As a side note, as far as wats go, I'm a little more partial to the traditional designs simply because they seem to be more representative of Thailand to me. Is the design of Wat Phra Dhammakaya regarded as controversial? Or is it just the difference in practice and related scandals? Or all?

Cult or not, it does seem to attract a large number of people. What exactly is it that makes it considered to be a cult? I know very little about it apart from what the few things I've read. I had no idea it was there until I saw a photo with a description of a "Strange UFO Building in Thailand".

[camerata]

If you do a site search on "dhammakaya" you'll find quite a few topics covering the sect. It's considered (by many) a cult because it is centred on the monk Luang Por Sodh who, it is claimed, re-discovered the Buddha's one true way to nirvana, that had been lost for 2,000 years. The sect has just cast its fourth solid gold statue of LP Sodh. It's regarded by some as heretical because some of its teachings aren't in the Pali Canon.

I'm biased in that I like traditional Asian temple architecture, but I think you have to evaluate the UFO-style temple in terms of efficiency. The sect likes to hold events with tens of thousands of followers all sitting in perfect rows like at a Kim Jong-Il rally, and the architecture is ideal for that. The sect's Buddha images look like a cross between a spaceman and an Oscar statue, which I don't find appealing either. Perhaps the idea is to attract a younger crowd.

[rockyysdt]

It sounds like monk Luang Por Sodh's ego has taken a hold.

[camerata]

It sounds like monk Luang Por Sodh's ego has taken a hold.

He didn't create the sect. He died before it was created. It's not clear why the sect thinks his meditation system is the one true way to nirvana.

[AmeriThai]

Thank you Camerata. Like you, I'm rather partial to the traditional style of architecture of Thai wats. They are a distinct representation of Thailand that have similar features, and yet each one with their own unique variations. To me, while the modern design style of Wat Phra Dhammakaya is impressive, the design looks more suitable for a business convention center.

I did a short search of it, but primarily looking for photos, which I posted as well as a couple of links. I also discovered a few scandals associated with it, which included spending huge sums money on lavish and expensive personal items, such as jewelry, etc., to which the abbot publicly acknowledged as possible but also considered as unimportant. I would think that alone would cause a great deal of disenchantment among people. But evidently not as a seemingly large number of people continue to attend.

I'm not certain about the UFO-shaped Memorial Hall being designed to efficiently accomodate large numbers of followers. At least not inside, although it looks rather large. Most of the photos I've seen show the followers seated outdoors in a semi-circular arrangement.

I hadn't noticed the Buddha image you mentioned, but after a search, I'm guessing this must be what you're talking about.

Thank you also for the pointer. Perhaps this explains a bit better about the controversial difference from the mainstream.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general644.html

Having read this view, it appears that the Dhammakaya movement seems to incorporate capitalism into its structure. I can see what you mean with your comparison to "a Kim Jong-Il rally", although I'm not sure about that comparison. Perhaps more like a Sun Myung Moon rally?

I did find a statue of the monk Luang Por Sodh, not a gold one, but life-like color statue. It's well made, but looks a bit of eerie to me.

Edited October 28, 2008 by AmeriThai

[camerata]

Here's the gold statue:

And here's the Kim Jong-Il style rally:

Since we're talking aesthetics, I think the reason I don't like the Buddha rupas is that they look too modern, are too stylized, coloured orange and lack detail. Some of the smaller ones are completely transparent (I assume they are perspex or glass) to represent the rupa visualized by meditators in their abdomen.

[khaowong1]

I spent two weeks in a meditation class at Wat Luang Por Sodh Dhammakaya in Rajburi in 2007. It was pretty strange. They were very adamant about Luang Por Sodh's meditation techniques. They claimed this style was the only way to reach nirvana. It was way too detailed for me.

[AmeriThai]

Here's the gold statue:

Since we're talking aesthetics, I think the reason I don't like the Buddha rupas is that they look too modern, are too stylized, coloured orange and lack detail. Some of the smaller ones are completely transparent (I assume they are perspex or glass) to represent the rupa visualized by meditators in their abdomen.

All Buddha images are stylized in one way or another, but I agree that the one I posted looks a bit too sleek or modern, I suppose to fit in with the overall architectural design. Somehow, that seems to put the importance of the architecture above the Buddha. But I don't mean to suggest that the style of the Buddha must always be the same. There have been many different styles over the centuries. I tend to appreciate the styling of the Chinnarat Buddha at Phitsanulok. Still, as you say, it's a matter of personal preference.

Here's the image of Luang Phor Sodh I mentioned. It was said to have been made of carbon fiber glass. It reminds me of what's claimed to be a perfectly preserved mummified monk at a wat (next to a klong) I saw a couple of years ago. I can't remember the name of the wat though. It's not the one at Koh Samui.

Edited October 29, 2008 by AmeriThai

[khaowong1]

Here's the gold statue:

Since we're talking aesthetics, I think the reason I don't like the Buddha rupas is that they look too modern, are too stylized, coloured orange and lack detail. Some of the smaller ones are completely transparent (I assume they are perspex or glass) to represent the rupa visualized by meditators in their abdomen.

All Buddha images are stylized in one way or another, but I agree that the one I posted looks a bit too sleek or modern, I suppose to fit in with the overall architectural design. Somehow, that seems to put the importance of the architecture above the Buddha. But I don't mean to suggest that the style of the Buddha must always be the same. There have been many different styles over the centuries. I tend to appreciate the styling of the Chinnarat Buddha at Phitsanulok. Still, as you say, it's a matter of personal preference.

Here's the image of Luang Phor Sodh I mentioned. It was said to have been made of carbon fiber glass. It reminds me of what's claimed to be a perfectly preserved mummified monk at a wat (next to a klong) I saw a couple of years ago. I can't remember the name of the wat though. It's not the one at Koh Samui.

They have those mummified monks everywhere any more. Maybe the one you were thinking of is at Wat Phua U Dom on Klong 12 North of Don Muang. I like the one they have of Luang Por Luesie Lingdam and Wat Thazung in Uthai Thani.

[AmeriThai]

They have those mummified monks everywhere any more. Maybe the one you were thinking of is at Wat Phua U Dom on Klong 12 North of Don Muang. I like the one they have of Luang Por Luesie Lingdam and Wat Thazung in Uthai Thani.

Never been to any of the wats you mentioned. The wat I went to was along a canal not too far from the Damnoen Saduak Floating Market. Our son-in-law took us to visit several of the wats in the area. Here are a couple of pics. The mummy is laying in the glass coffin back by the wall. In front is a realistic statue of the monk, similar to the statue of Luang Phor Sodh.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/416/wat06ur0.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5986/wat07xu6.jpg