Customs Duty Stamp - Page 18

[LivinLOS]

This thread is in relation to the current customs busts happening on Phuket and the issues thats throwing up to people who believed thier bikes were legal.

See http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Heads-Up-Tee...et-t220013.html

I thought I was pretty well up on Thai bike books, I have handled many myself and even admit that in the past I have used a recycled book on a bike. This page 18 stamp is totally new info to me. I have never looked for it before, didnt know it was needed, etc etc. Even now I am hearing its not needed on bikes over 11 years old, yet my bike from 91 (I think) has one.

So does your bike have one ??

What age is the bike ??

Was it bought main dealer ??

If we can at least find out what this stamp is, maybe its possible to clear up IF its even legally due, and how to back pay it for those that need it.

[LivinLOS]

This is the page from my book..

Bike is a 91 Bandit 4. In my GF's name.

My GF says its about tax, but while her English is conversational, technical translations like this she struggles to do them word for word.. Maybe someone with 100% Thai reading skills could help clear it up.

[Meridian007]

My stamp looks similar to yours. I don't know exactly what it says, but I know it has to do with the annual tax payed on a license plate. As I understand it, when you go to pay your taxes they stamp your book and give you a new sticker for your bike. Therefore, if your sticker is still valid, the stamp in your book should be too. This is similar to what we do in Canada, but with just the sticker.

Oh ya, the bike is a `93 Steed 600, I bought it privately through mocyc.com. I only looked for bikes on there with a real green book, I didn't have any problems transferring it to my name here in Bangkok so i assume it's legit.

[LivinLOS]

Firstly I think this is different to and separate from your annual 'road tax' payment.. I could be wrong but thats what I am being told.

Secondly, the assumption that your book is fine, is exactly the problem thats now happening.. Customs are telling all kinds of people, who have a legit book, put in thier name, and whose book has previously passed all DMV checks. That there is customs due on the bike, and that it must have that stamp (many do not) !!! See the thread I link, they have impounded many big bikes based on not having that. I am trying to work out who is supposed to have it as one guy says his lawyer claims its only for 11 year and younger, but mine is a 91 and has it ?!?!

From what I am being told they are saying that many times the DMV 'forgets' to move the stamp over from one book to another when the book is full or it changes changwat, but that its still your problem and you need to produce the origional first book the bike was issued at registration or import (who has that !!) to show the stamp in it from then !!

[HDRIDER]

Hi

It is NOT the same stamp you get every year, it have to be a special tax stamp, i will get the real one tomorrow or Monday and show it here.

LOS i think what you see in the one i posted it has to be that line, not 100% but will find out. most books have stamp on page 18 BUT it has to be the right stamp.

[HDRIDER]

HI

LOS you should put "dont know" as well

[LivinLOS]

Rather than edit the poll.. Lets change it to 'Do you have this stamp on page 18' then.. Using what I posted as a template.. If you have one, it it the same as what I have put up (except dates of reg and bike year etc)...

If its not.. Photo it and post.. Lets see what selection people have..

[BigBikeBKK]

If we can at least find out what this stamp is, maybe its possible to clear up IF its even legally due, and how to back pay it for those that need it.

This is getting silly. Why not ask your lawyer?

[LivinLOS]

Well because

1) I dont have a lawyer

2) Until a few days ago I was under the complete understanding all was cool.

3) My bike is probably one of the lowest value larger cc bikes on the road.

Also from what I am hearing, they simply dont care, they have the bikes and even with lawyers they are simply inventing new things you need.. Missing a stamp = pay full whack.. Got a stamp = pay less but still pay.. Not got a stamp on a bike that shouldnt have a stamp = produce origional 1st issued 2 decades old book, simply as they 'suspect' it might be a forgery !!

As yet I have not heard of anyone in any circumstance getting thier bike back free.. Are we really to believe EVERY bike so far is illegal ??

This is the intent of the thread.. To work out what people do or dont have on this page, until a day or two ago I have NEVER looked in the back of a bike book.. This is new.. And to be totally honest I dont see how legally someone else registering a bike 18 years ago, requires me now to pay backdated customs duty that was someone elses fee. It had a plate, that plate and book passed the DMV, it was LEGAL.

Do new main dealer (Kwaker 250) bikes have anything there ?? If so whats it say..

[Meridian007]

Wow, I just read that other thread. It's definitely another police/government scam. Does it seem to mainly be farang bikes that are impounded?

I was talking to a co-worker a few days ago about possessions in Thailand, he used to work as a lawyer for a property management and real estate firm here, and he made it very clear to me that you can't really own anything here unless you have citizenship. Yes, they will sell you anything, and they will give you reassurances and documentation to back it up, but it doesn't mean squat if someone in power decides they want something.

My bike is legal but I know it could be taken at any point with my having no legal recourse in the way we do in our home countries. If you aren't a citizen, you just don't have those rights. I realise this and as such will not buy anything too expensive here until I can acquire citizenship. (I don't want to seem negative, but from what I've seen during my time here, the "word" of the law is up to interpretation or can be ignored if enough power is shown. It's just a fact of life one has to accept to live here for any long period of time.)

I wish you luck with this, but I really think you need to get a good Thai lawyer. Your chances of getting anything resolved in what you consider a fair, legal way are almost nil on your own. Your only other real option is to pay the extortion fees to get your bike back.

Are there many of you in this "sting" that feel you have legal books? If so you should join together to get a lawyer. It will cut down the costs, but either way, there will be costs, and that sucks. I'm always afraid to take my bike in for service because of stories like this, even though it's "legal"...

To keep this with the topic, here are pics of my old book and my new book. (they gave me a new book when I transferred ownership, I guess I'm one of those lucky few who has the original, they kept the old book but I scanned it before I brought the bike in)

Hopefully this will help, so you can see what stamps are on an original book from `93, as well as using the fact that no-one has their original book if you've been given a new one the "DMV" keeps the old one. Good Luck!

Old Book:

New Book:

Edited November 2, 2008 by Meridian007

[basjke]

The stamp on page 18 is the affirmation that it has passed all the tests and verifications necessary for legally importing the bike.I can not read Thai but I can compare the dates and numbers on this page with the documents I recieved during the process of importing my bike and can see for example that particular dates and numbers matches with the invitation government sent for the emission test and customs documents.

For years people on this forum advocated that recycled books are no problem because they can pay the tax every year so why pay 60 to 80.000 baht for a legal registration.Now they find out that it starts biting them in the ar_se and start whining.

The reason that everything went smooth for so many years is that the government wasn't computerized and everyone closed an eye for some tea money.Now times start changing.Corruption has started to be driven out.Those people who accepted money previously get scared because they know they're watching them from higher up.This is one of the reasons that,as I said in another topic,that if you receive the license plate from your imported bike the government still keeps the green book for another month.Just to check out that everything went the legal way and all taxes were paid in full.

I have ordered a few imported bikes during the 15 years I live here and always used and trusted Roadmachine in Pattaya to handle the imports.He always warned about some other shops and told me why they were cheaper then him but never could show me hard evidence as he said it would work against him if he did.

Anyway all the shops he mentioned before are the ones that recently show up on this forum as having problems.

So next time you buy a imported bike have a look at for example the royal thai customs website and do some research on the thai forums so you know how expensive it is to import a bike legally in thailand.And when somebody tells you they can do it much cheaper,just smile and keep walking.

[ajahnlau]

This is the page from my book..

Bike is a 91 Bandit 4. In my GF's name.

My GF says its about tax, but while her English is conversational, technical translations like this she struggles to do them word for word.. Maybe someone with 100% Thai reading skills could help clear it up.

My 92 HD has same,same on page 18.

[LivinLOS]

The stamp on page 18 is the affirmation that it has passed all the tests and verifications necessary for legally importing the bike.I can not read Thai but I can compare the dates and numbers on this page with the documents I recieved during the process of importing my bike and can see for example that particular dates and numbers matches with the invitation government sent for the emission test and customs documents.

For years people on this forum advocated that recycled books are no problem because they can pay the tax every year so why pay 60 to 80.000 baht for a legal registration.Now they find out that it starts biting them in the ar_se and start whining.

The reason that everything went smooth for so many years is that the government wasn't computerized and everyone closed an eye for some tea money.Now times start changing.Corruption has started to be driven out.Those people who accepted money previously get scared because they know they're watching them from higher up.This is one of the reasons that,as I said in another topic,that if you receive the license plate from your imported bike the government still keeps the green book for another month.Just to check out that everything went the legal way and all taxes were paid in full.

I have ordered a few imported bikes during the 15 years I live here and always used and trusted Roadmachine in Pattaya to handle the imports.He always warned about some other shops and told me why they were cheaper then him but never could show me hard evidence as he said it would work against him if he did.

Anyway all the shops he mentioned before are the ones that recently show up on this forum as having problems.

So next time you buy a imported bike have a look at for example the royal thai customs website and do some research on the thai forums so you know how expensive it is to import a bike legally in thailand.And when somebody tells you they can do it much cheaper,just smile and keep walking.

I hate to bust your bubble.. But in this case many of the recycled books guys are in a better position than the legit books guys..

What I understand the position to currently be is that they are now saying, that if the bike was imported as parts, and paid the reduced taxation on parts.. That when it was legally registered back whenever, they now want the difference between the parts import prices and the 'full bike import' price... Many of the recycled books came from full import bikes or bent books were not registered as being assembled from parts. Hence they may have an advantage (this is based on what I am being told by those caught up in this)..

The legal guys are getting caught up in this, maybe moreso !! This isnt just a grey book thing..

[LivinLOS]

This is the page from my book..

Bike is a 91 Bandit 4. In my GF's name.

My GF says its about tax, but while her English is conversational, technical translations like this she struggles to do them word for word.. Maybe someone with 100% Thai reading skills could help clear it up.

My 92 HD has same,same on page 18.

And I assume you feel the book is legit and your 100% legal ?? Like my book ??

Because now the story I am hearing is they want MORE tax, based on the difference between parts import and full bike import..

As per the Teera thread in the Phuket forum.. My stamps has been translated as..

July, 2551: Registration discontinued and (the vehicle) is registered. The original registration is ก - 3359 ภก.

The vehicle is declared for use in Phuket in the domicile dwelling number 73/18, Village 1, Subdistrict Katu, Katu District, Phuket (Province)

This vehicle is a motorcycle built from used parts.

Sales Tax has been paid as shown on payment receipt number 36662 ลว on 30 January 2534 (1991)

Amount paid is 4,290 baht.

So I am being told (and this isnt yet verified) the "This vehicle is a motorcycle built from used parts." is the problem and the customs wants the back tax for a full bike import.

Others directly caught up in this or more connected can chime in here ??

[Richard-BKK]

No books I have show "built from used parts" or something similar, I have a serious amount of green books at home. And one bike we have, a Royal Enfield, which we bend the law a bit to get it in the country still doesn't say anything about "build from parts" used or new.... ?

[LivinLOS]

So far they seem to be playing catch 22..

If theres no stamp at all.. They say there was no taxes paid.. and its up to you to prove that the bike was legit with the production of the first ever book (kind of impossible).. When my mate found out that the age range didnt apply to his bike they then demanded the origional book to 'make sure it wasnt a forgery' !!

If there is a stamp (and it says what mine says, bike made from parts) they want the tax difference between parts and straight import.

No one is getting thier bike back for free (so far !!).. Based on what I have been told, I am not exactly in there asking or making myself known !!

[LivinLOS]

To keep this with the topic, here are pics of my old book and my new book. (they gave me a new book when I transferred ownership, I guess I'm one of those lucky few who has the original, they kept the old book but I scanned it before I brought the bike in)

Hopefully this will help, so you can see what stamps are on an original book from `93, as well as using the fact that no-one has their original book if you've been given a new one the "DMV" keeps the old one. Good Luck!

Old Book:

New Book:

Clear proof that the DMV is too lazy to move full details over from one book to another.

[thaicbr]

OR That every other DMV you don't need it and this is just the thing that you need.

[BigBikeBKK]

I've bought 3 new Thai built Kawasakis in Thailand now and none have had anything marked on page 18.

I don't know anything about this page 18 but if I had to guess I'd say this page 18 tax notation is only required for bikes imported as parts and reassembled since they are taxed differently than bikes imported whole. Just a guess mind you!

I can also say that when I sold my Ninjette in Chiang Mai the DMV there processed the transfer immediately and there was no mention of any problem regarding the blank page 18.

I think I'm selling the ER6n to a fellow in Khon Kaen on Monday so we'll see once again if the blank page 18 causes any problems. I'm not anticipating it will. Seems like a Phuket-only issue IMHO.

Ride On!

Tony

[LivinLOS]

My understanding is page 18 is where they record the excise tax payment and when its paid etc. As per the scan I posted.

I would expect that selling a ninja or a ER6 or any other legit main dealer puchased bike that all goes well (I mean it has to right) but just am baffled as the customs are adamant that 'no stamp here' = money to be paid. How that can be said at the same time as legit bikes have no stamp is the obvious TiT logic !!

[Richard-BKK]

What is Thai build, Kawasaki motorcycles you buy in Thailand are not Thai build. Even if they are manufactured in a factory in Thailand. Kawasaki (Thailand) is currently declaring motorcycles being manufactured in Thailand which technically are not. Kawasaki needs to declare to the Thai authorities which zones, machines and facilities are used to produce bounded warehouse production, this machines, machinery or facilities cannot be used to manufacture domestic production...

Some rumors are growing that somehow the Kawasaki factory did missed up and parts which where intended for export where used for domestic production. Also, some people say that Kawasaki is using machinery which they not have... double... Angry tongs say that other manufacturers are pointing this out to the authorities...

The downside for the Thai Kawasaki riders is that, IF THIS IS REAL, the end user is by law end responsible for the import tax, and without any sales contract involving this the buyer has nothing to protect him...

[JonnyF]

I don't believe for a minute that Thai built Kawazaki's will fall victim to this crackdown on big bikes.

IMO the crackdown is at least partially designed to protect and encourage the big 4 to manufacture in Thailand by making them the only logical choice, not to penalize them.

There's nothing to stop them screwing the Kawasaki buyers, I just don't think it will happen. Obviously in Thailand anything is possible but highly doubtful in this case.

[imaneggspurt]

The stamp on page 18 is the affirmation that it has passed all the tests and verifications necessary for legally importing the bike.I can not read Thai but I can compare the dates and numbers on this page with the documents I recieved during the process of importing my bike and can see for example that particular dates and numbers matches with the invitation government sent for the emission test and customs documents.

For years people on this forum advocated that recycled books are no problem because they can pay the tax every year so why pay 60 to 80.000 baht for a legal registration.Now they find out that it starts biting them in the ar_se and start whining.

The reason that everything went smooth for so many years is that the government wasn't computerized and everyone closed an eye for some tea money.Now times start changing.Corruption has started to be driven out.Those people who accepted money previously get scared because they know they're watching them from higher up.This is one of the reasons that,as I said in another topic,that if you receive the license plate from your imported bike the government still keeps the green book for another month.Just to check out that everything went the legal way and all taxes were paid in full.

I have ordered a few imported bikes during the 15 years I live here and always used and trusted Roadmachine in Pattaya to handle the imports.He always warned about some other shops and told me why they were cheaper then him but never could show me hard evidence as he said it would work against him if he did.

Anyway all the shops he mentioned before are the ones that recently show up on this forum as having problems.

So next time you buy a imported bike have a look at for example the royal thai customs website and do some research on the thai forums so you know how expensive it is to import a bike legally in thailand.And when somebody tells you they can do it much cheaper,just smile and keep walking.

I hate to bust your bubble.. But in this case many of the recycled books guys are in a better position than the legit books guys..

What I understand the position to currently be is that they are now saying, that if the bike was imported as parts, and paid the reduced taxation on parts.. That when it was legally registered back whenever, they now want the difference between the parts import prices and the 'full bike import' price... Many of the recycled books came from full import bikes or bent books were not registered as being assembled from parts. Hence they may have an advantage (this is based on what I am being told by those caught up in this)..

The legal guys are getting caught up in this, maybe moreso !! This isnt just a grey book thing..

That would make sense, ive got 2 "grey" book bikes, i have never had any problem, in fact ive never been asked to see either book, ( only at the borders ) and my bikes dont sit in the drive, i go to cambodia on one 4 times a year,.

[LivinLOS]

The downside for the Thai Kawasaki riders is that, IF THIS IS REAL, the end user is by law end responsible for the import tax, and without any sales contract involving this the buyer has nothing to protect him...

I dont for one second think Kwaker would ruin their name by having this as the headline news on all the bike info sites..

A deal would be struck.

[Richard-BKK]

To be honest I not belief the rumors also, still I know for some fact that the Kawasaki plant missed up the import, export and domestic sales in numbers. And we all sure that this will not effect the end user, the Thai law says different... So lets hope that Kawasaki can make some sort of deal with the custom office...

[BigBikeBKK]

To be honest I not belief the rumors also, still I know for some fact that the Kawasaki plant missed up the import, export and domestic sales in numbers. And we all sure that this will not effect the end user, the Thai law says different... So lets hope that Kawasaki can make some sort of deal with the custom office...

Of course, if you believe the nonsense that Richard tells you, then there wouldn't be any Kawasaki Big Bikes in Thailand...

Remember this classic quote?

" 2008-12-18 00:09:56

Post

#19

Super Member

Group: Advanced Members

Posts: 1,751

Joined: 2004-08-16

From: Bangkok

Member No.: 12,170

Sorry people,

Currently I believe that somebody in Kawasaki has revised its ideas about the motorcycle market in Thailand, Kawasaki will not introduce any larger models at this point, next revue is up in 6 months. "

Link: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2413167

Remember to always take everything Richard says with a big grain of salt

[katabeachbum]

What is Thai build, Kawasaki motorcycles you buy in Thailand are not Thai build. Even if they are manufactured in a factory in Thailand. Kawasaki (Thailand) is currently declaring motorcycles being manufactured in Thailand which technically are not. Kawasaki needs to declare to the Thai authorities which zones, machines and facilities are used to produce bounded warehouse production, this machines, machinery or facilities cannot be used to manufacture domestic production...

Some rumors are growing that somehow the Kawasaki factory did missed up and parts which where intended for export where used for domestic production. Also, some people say that Kawasaki is using machinery which they not have... double... Angry tongs say that other manufacturers are pointing this out to the authorities...

The downside for the Thai Kawasaki riders is that, IF THIS IS REAL, the end user is by law end responsible for the import tax, and without any sales contract involving this the buyer has nothing to protect him...

hehehehehe

The bikes are build in Thailand, and most of the parts are made in Thailand. Pick one bike apart and you will be amazed how fast they have set up a Thai supplyline for bike-parts. Not that difficult really, since major supplyers are already here for japs cars, like Nissin, Denso, Enkei.

[katabeachbum]

The big bikes in LOS which dont need tax info on page 18 seem to have a code in page 4, the bike info page

Unable to scan today, but its the 5th position possible to write something, thats after 1regdate, 2reg no, 3province, 4motosai: Containing info translated to me as "Build identical to picture" and the manufactorers or importer government authorisationcode (Kawasaki is no 12).

These are bikes manufactored in LOS or imported to LOS by government authorised importers who have had one of each model approved and then guarantees each bike of this model is identical (except for color).

This is how its done in most countries.

I hope Iv found it, if I m wrong please excuse me. Its just my own research in own books translated by my girlfriend. If I m wrong, I ll put some more energi into it.

Kawasaki has simplified this by calling both ER6-models EX650D, and then stated in book if its faired. This could also be the reason for Kawasaki to still make only a few models here, cause other 650s (Veron and the Racemachine) would need more approvals which takes money and time

Edited October 8, 2009 by katabeachbum

[basjke]

The big bikes in LOS which dont need tax info on page 18 seem to have a code in page 4, the bike info page

Of course they have a code somewhere in the book.Otherwise every car or bike bought in thailand should need tax info on page 18.Have you ever seen any new car bought at an official dealership in thailand having tax info printed on page 18?However those imported toyota hybrids you can buy in bangkok will all have that info printed.

Don't get it why that is so difficult to understand.

[katabeachbum]

The big bikes in LOS which dont need tax info on page 18 seem to have a code in page 4, the bike info page

Of course they have a code somewhere in the book.Otherwise every car or bike bought in thailand should need tax info on page 18.Have you ever seen any new car bought at an official dealership in thailand having tax info printed on page 18?However those imported toyota hybrids you can buy in bangkok will all have that info printed.

Don't get it why that is so difficult to understand.

Its never been difficult to understand. Its just been difficult to find it, since I dont read Thai and havent had that many books to compare