30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[magisterludi]

Ok, this might help stopping people from working without a proper visa and work permit, so it's a good move I guess.

People who suffer most are those that LIVE here without having a work permit or a Thai wife and are not over 50 with a sufficient income to get a non-OR visa. I used to be one of those unfortunate people, who had enough monthly income to live here, but it would have been not enough if I had to to open up a fake company, pay insurance etc for 4 fake staff and pay fake income tax just to get a 1 year visa... However, if your are one of those people, and consider going the route of a "fake" company, it costs you about 6,500 baht a month... in the same time, you might end up actually working and have some extra cash

TOURISTS however will NOT have a problem, IF they plan ahead.

You can get a 90 day visa at any Thai embassy (60 day single entry + 30 day extension at any immigration office IN Thailand)

I know in the UK you can even get 90+90+90 visa, I don't know about outer countries, but a friend of mine just spent 9 months here with a visa like that.

Good luck to us all... let's see what they come up next to let us know we are not welcome unless we are old or filthy rich.

6,500 per month sounds a bit low, especially if you consider half-year audit, end of year audit, monthly tax returns, vat filling, social security for each employee (750 for you and 750 for he employee I believe), etc. In any case, you don't need fake income (at least for the first couple of years), as Thai authorities won't expect a new company to make any income on their first day of operations If you speak, read and write Thai, and know all the right people...maybe you can do it for 6,500 per month, but I think it's a bit of a stretch.

[anotheruser]

30-days border runs now only 15 days

BANGKOK: -- In order to limit the amount of foreigners using "back-to-back" border runs, Thai Immigration has issued a new regulation regarding the 30 days tourist exemption.

Effective immediately, travellers without visa will get only 15 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neigboring country.

Passengers arriving via an international airport will obtain a 30 days stay, and for them there is no change.

Travellers with Malaysian passports will obtain a 30 days stay.

This police order number 778/2551 is today confirmed by Royal Thai Police, Immigration Bureau, in Bangkok.

-- thaivisa.com 2008-12-04

Attached: Royal Thai Police order (Thai language)

RTP778_2551.pdf

Mark my words, I can feel it coming sooner or later. It will only be a matter of time before the people who do their back to back three month Non O visas to places such as Laos, Malaysia, Singapore etc, will be told that they will no longer be allowed to do even this.

I think it will be a case of showing funds in order to get the one year multi entry one only. Maybe eventually they'll also make us go home to our own prospective countries to apply for our Non O and perhaps tourist visas, like they've already done with almost every nation on the continent of Africa.

Not sure about that. Seems like every time a law changes in Thailand they make things a bit more miserable but leave enough wiggle room as for it to not be that decisive. Gogo bars are bad so we close at midnight and can't sell booze between 2-5 PM. Long stay visa runners are bad they must go every 15 days. Things become more tedious but they make no real effort to just put their foot down and end the game. It just becomes a cat and mouse game. If they really wanted undesirables to leave they would close the gogo bars and stop the visa charade.

They wouldn't even need to tighten the visa laws like they have if they just used a bit of discretion at the borders. Just because you are eligible for a VOA or visa waiver doesn't mean they have to grant it. It is nobodies right to enter a foreign country it is always up to the official on duty at the time to decide. So far i have never seen anybody even questioned.

The latest law just means you need to be affluent enough to afford a airplane ticket twice a month. This may change the game from visa buses to visa planes. As long as people are guaranteed their 15 days and have no worry of being rejected at the border people will still do it.

[bangkok blue]

This will possibly cause short term problems for farrang here awaiting W.P and papers to get an official Non B or O visa, luckily I'm ok for now. From what I gather it's just the boarder hop visa runs that this effects. But if I end my employment here I may go to Laos and get another double entry tourist visa (6mths) as before you get 60days, then go immigration to get a 30day extension. Will this still be the case??? Or after your initial 60days on a tourist visa you will just get 15days??? anyone know?

[insideleft]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

I am an American that crossed from France to the UK. I get 6 months automatically. I didn't aply for any visa nor am I a resident of the EU. You may have other points but your argument about the UK border policy just isn't true

My main point was how your country treats Thai's trying to enter.

Nit-picking a mistaken point of mine has not provided any suggestion of how your country treats Thai applicants and if the Thai's treat your applications, or arrivals without papers differently to your government.

etr

[anotheruser]

"My main point was how your country treats Thai's trying to enter.

Nit-picking a mistaken point of mine has not provided any suggestion of how your country treats Thai applicants and if the Thai's treat your applications, or arrivals without papers differently to your government."

Wasn't nit picking at all. You had clearly misrepresented the conditions of entering the Uk and I merely corrected you.

[ubonjoe]

PLEASE, can someone kindly tell us

1) How this new rule will effect my husband?

No effect at all it does not apply to a tourist visa or any type of visa.

It is only for those arriving without a visa.

Edited December 4, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

This will possibly cause short term problems for farrang here awaiting W.P and papers to get an official Non B or O visa, luckily I'm ok for now. From what I gather it's just the boarder hop visa runs that this effects. But if I end my employment here I may go to Laos and get another double entry tourist visa (6mths) as before you get 60days, then go immigration to get a 30day extension. Will this still be the case??? Or after your initial 60days on a tourist visa you will just get 15days??? anyone know?

The new rule only applies to visa exempt entries, not to visas.

[Dap]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Absolooootly! Visa's are easily acquired through the proper channels. It's really no problem to stay in this country if you just take the time to do it properly. If someone simply intends to "visit", 15 days would seem adequate, and if another 15 days (or more) would complete that same visit, well then, do a border run. Would seem a small price to continue one's adventures in LOS

[Jingthing]

Really? Then tell me how a 37 year old who's been here for 12 years with enough money to live on, most cash is in in a thai bank can get the right visa, not married, no intention of doing so either and no business???

Please elaborate.

If the Thai authorities agree with you that you have "enough money" every month to live on, then you will be able to get the relavant Non-Immigrant visa..!!

We are all guests and should abide by local laws.

If you don't like the local laws.........

........the airport is now open again!!

Huh? They will get an O visa based on what reason? If under 50, having money is not a qualifier. I moved over here more or less at age 48 and did the tourist visas mixed with 30 day runs for a few years. I guess I was a riff raff farang by the snobby definitions of some here. Then I magically turned 50 (shit happens). Suddenly 'respectable"? I don't think so. This is definitely a cold bucket of ice water to early retirees with money. That said, I would have been able to cope. If its true you get 30 days from an air trip even from Malaysia, so you fly to Malaysia. Yes you can get tourist visas there also, but they tend to turn the spigot on and off depending on the current fashion and the state of your passport stamps. Now I have heard you Brits have at least one consulate that will issue long O visas based on stating that you fancy a plate of green curry; however not all countries have consulates that are so liberal.

As with any government policy in ANY land, there are unintended consequences. Yes, they will harass and chase away some people they want gone, they will stimulate air travel, raise visa fees but they will also chase away people that in the long run they benefit from, and also send lots of money to their Asean neighbors that would have stayed in Thailand. Good neighbors, the Thais.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Jingthing

[anotheruser]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Absolooootly! Visa's are easily acquired through the proper channels. It's really no problem to stay in this country if you just take the time to do it properly. If someone simply intends to "visit", 15 days would seem adequate, and if another 15 days (or more) would complete that same visit, well then, do a border run. Would seem a small price to continue one's adventures in LOS

I can't agree there. If they put people at immigration desks with half a brain and scrutinized arriving visitors more thoroughly these sort of laws would not be needed. A backpacker going from Phuket to Chiang Mai could pass a month reasonably with out coming near a border.

[hansnl]

30-days border runs now only 15 days

BANGKOK: -- In order to limit the amount of foreigners using "back-to-back" border runs, Thai Immigration has issued a new regulation regarding the 30 days tourist exemption.

Effective immediately, travellers without visa will get only 15 days of stay if they are arriving via a land border checkpoint from a neigboring country.

Passengers arriving via an international airport will obtain a 30 days stay, and for them there is no change.

Travellers with Malaysian passports will obtain a 30 days stay.

This police order number 778/2551 is today confirmed by Royal Thai Police, Immigration Bureau, in Bangkok.

-- thaivisa.com 2008-12-04

Attached: Royal Thai Police order (Thai language)

RTP778_2551.pdf

After the decline in bookings, the decline of the economy, the decline of the political standing, the decline on the opinions about Thailand of lots of people outside Thailand, the decline of the ideas and feelings about the friendliness of the Thai people, this is exactly what Thailand needs.

Poor Thai people.

Me, I just rented an apartment in Manilla, no problem, permission to stay for 10 years easily available if 10,000 US Dollar in an account in PH when the permission is asked for. After that, use the money. Re-entry permits? What? No 10,000 Dollar? Permission to stay for one year, easy renewable.

If it gets any worse, Byebye!

So sorry.

[easybullet3]

tourism trade is down so the government needs a way to keep the money rolling in.

getting all those monthly visa runners to do it every 15 days is clearly inpractical for the visa-run people.

so, making them fly to a foreign thai embassy will mean you have to get a 1000 baht 60 day tourist visa. (thus bringing in a bit more cash from the people that are already here).

so, now everyone is best off doing the 3 month visa runs with the 60 day tourist visa and 1 month extension at bangkok immigration office.

this is a really anoying rule for people that dont work in thailand who have their own money. (but of course, if they have their own money, then a holiday every 3 months isnt such a bad thing!!)

i can see this crippling many english teachers who cant afford the flights.

i guess for them, the best way is to take the bus out of thailand and fly back!!

[fudoshinanzan]

Hmm... I think I'll definitely apply for the 1 year multiple O visa when I'm in the UK.

Been getting the single entry O from Penang for quite a while now (no luck with getting 1 year, not sure why). Extended each of the last 3 by a further 60 days at immig. in Bangkok (I know! Aren't you only supposed to be able to do it once?) so I haven't been stressing it.

Even though this change doesn't affect me, it would seem a good time to have a longer term visa on me in case things do change.

p.s. Re Thais going to my country, for Thais married to UK citizens it's straightforward going to the UK. Just need enough money (yourself, between you, or solely from your sponsor(s)), somewhere to stay (house or hotel) and to be in a genuine relationship. Seems fair enough. If you can't cover any of those 3 why on earth would you even think of trying to apply?

[cblunt]

I always have the correct visa but if I do come in on a 30 days stamp, I normally don't stay longer then one week and use Thailand only for shopping and to buy cheap tickets.

There was I time when I used Thailand as a hub to buy cheap tickets when I was planning a long-haul flight somewhere. I stopped doing that after they began more strictly enforcing the rule about needing an onward or return ticket on arrival, so now I fly via another country instead. I think Thailand has lost out as a result of that because I visit far less often now.

Chris

[imaneggspurt]

Has anyone mentioned the border run minibus companies,?, oh dear, looks like they will be out of work soon,.

[hansnl]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

[NinjaGladiator]

Slightly confusing, it states all land border crossing, yet the purpose is to stop the back-to-back expat trying to be a long stay tourist. Here in Udon we have many back-packer entering Thailand over land from Vientienne and expecting to stay for 30 days, I'm reading that they will now only receive 15 days - wot a spanner to be thrown into the works.

Anyway look at it another way, airports have just reopened and they need passengers urgently, wot a way to do it. Now go book a ticket you back-to-backers, and show Swampi is back in business.

I've never seen such a drastic move come in to force at such short notice so this has to be their motive.

[lingyai]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

I am an American that crossed from France to the UK. I get 6 months automatically. I didn't aply for any visa nor am I a resident of the EU. You may have other points but your argument about the UK border policy just isn't true

Exactly,

apples and oranges comparison. Is it harder to get in to the US but really if you get in you can stay a while. The Thai people I know who are not rich (but not super poor) have got visa to come here and stayed 3 months, no border runs.

Then there are the those farang in TH that have some kind of self righteous complex and are filled with hatred they need to take it out on those who don't have a work permit.

What makes you so angry?

Most people doing border runs don't work but do spend their money everyday in real places, mom and pop shops, haircut places, food stalls etc, not some multi national hotel.

Ask the Thai people at these places if they want the farang to leave?

and the very few who do work illegally are usually teachers. But I guess you don't want poorer Thei kids to be able to speak with native speakers?

As for paying taxes, whenever you buy things you are paying taxes.

Most farang will take very little from the gov't, they don't have kids in govt school, don't use govt hospitals, don't use social services. How exactly are these people a drain on society?

But I guess if having some kinda of boogie man to hate gets you off...'

[george]

I've never seen such a drastic move come in to force at such short notice so this has to be their motive.

This Police order was issued on 25 November, but thaivisa was the first to announce it in English.

[Who, me ?]

I don't think it's a great loss for Thailand - big spenders generally don't do visa runs but get proper long term multiple-reentry tourist or non-o visas in their home countries.

How wrong you are. Big Spenders usually only come here for a couple of weeks and spend up big in 5 star hotels. A lot of which filters off overseas. Visa runners spend their money at local hole in the walls and support the local economy at grass roots levels.

I disagree with you totally, without your due respect, I think Phil Conners has got the point

[BeauKarl]

Has anyone mentioned the border run minibus companies,?, oh dear, looks like they will be out of work soon,.

On the contrary, they'll be driving people every 2 weeks now instead of 30 days cos the 90 days rule doesn't count anymore.

This new law/rule is useless, they do it mainly to get the 'bad' farangs out but that won't help because the 90 day rule is scrapped.

They won't get any extra money out of it that's worth all the changes because the 90 day rule is scrapped.

the big winners are the visa companies doing the runs.

[MacWalen]

The new rule will also affect people waiting for the paperwork from the Ministry of Education, it takes about 3-4 weeks in Bangkok so till recently those who applied right after their visa run were able to obtain the paperwork without the need to leave the country, now it compliactes things as they might have to make another visa run, or apply right after they arrive in the country to make sure they have at least 4 weeks left.

Staying in Thailand on an ED visa is a very good option for those interested in learning Thai. All you need is one extension at the local immigration office every 90 days. You can study at our school for years. No visa runs at all. I can assure you that you can trust our school, 8th year in business, we will not run away with your money like Areeya 'school' in Phuket. Come the the party on the 12th of December, Larrys Dive, Sukhumvit soi 22, starting at 8pm till very late. You will be able to talk to hundreds of students.

Mac

Walen School of Thai

[lornahalliday]

Hi

I will arrive from uk and understand that I will get 30 day visa.I intend to stay just 10 days then go to cambodia/vietnam.I will fly back to Thailand from Ho Chi Minh ,so will I get another 30 days or just 15?

As I read it ,it looks as if because I am arriving back by air I will get 30 days ,but want to be sure.

[Lite Beer]

Hi

I will arrive from uk and understand that I will get 30 day visa.I intend to stay just 10 days then go to cambodia/vietnam.I will fly back to Thailand from Ho Chi Minh ,so will I get another 30 days or just 15?

As I read it ,it looks as if because I am arriving back by air I will get 30 days ,but want to be sure.

Yes. 30 days.

[sabaijai]

I don't think it's a great loss for Thailand - big spenders generally don't do visa runs but get proper long term multiple-reentry tourist or non-o visas in their home countries.

How wrong you are. Big Spenders usually only come here for a couple of weeks and spend up big in 5 star hotels. A lot of which filters off overseas. Visa runners spend their money at local hole in the walls and support the local economy at grass roots levels.

Even if some of the money filters off overseas, what is left is still much more than the amount most visa runners have to spend. You are also missing the fact that big 5 star hotels employ a lot of Thai staff, they also attract people who will be more likely to purchase expensive tours etc.. Much more beneficial to the economy than visa runners.

Do you have any statistics to back your claim? Most tourism studies identify the backpacker (low budget, long-term) market as generating more net tourism revenue for Thailand than any other broad sector of the market. I don't think the law was changed for economic reasons.

[tartempion]

Egypt: 1 yrs visa 30 dollars

Kenya: 1yrs visa 100 dolars

Vietnam: you can see in january the big changes

Brasil: 6 month visa 90 dollars

....ecc want more?

Vietnam 1 month visa 62 euro, one week, two embassy visits to get the stamp,they won't see me back there.

Vientiane, 120kms drive, wish to go there once a month to buy my Ricard, 1300B for a stamp, too much for just one bottle of Ricard, won't see me neither there also.

Now Thailand on it's way to drop the 30 days exemption, let them all get tourists visas, see neighboring countries!

Next step is to get rid of the lousy low life farangs, brilliant minds at work

[anotheruser]

Has anyone mentioned the border run minibus companies,?, oh dear, looks like they will be out of work soon,.

On the contrary, they'll be driving people every 2 weeks now instead of 30 days cos the 90 days rule doesn't count anymore.

This new law/rule is useless, they do it mainly to get the 'bad' farangs out but that won't help because the 90 day rule is scrapped.

They won't get any extra money out of it that's worth all the changes because the 90 day rule is scrapped.

the big winners are the visa companies doing the runs.

You are exactly right. They don't need any new law to remove undesirables. If they really wanted to do that they would have done it long ago. This just extracts more money and keeps them shuffling around.

I don't intend to stay a lengthy amount of time in Thailand but if I ever do I have the need to go through I won't be worrying about over staying the 15 days. 500 Baht a day is totally fine by me I wouldn't worry about complying with this law. They should enforce the 90 in and out law and blacklist people that overstay by months at a time. If I intended to live in Thailand I would over stay maybe 6 months at a time pay my 20K and go right back in. This assumes I wanted to live there in the first place and could not acquire a visa for whatever reason. I have never tried as it has never interested me enough.

[spidercat]

If Immigration has networked computers, why is there a need for Visa runs? Just report to Immigration, pay for a visa renewal and keep the money in Thailand

exactly my thoughts

The answer is simple, a tourst isn't supposed to stay in Thailand for ever, just for a short time. If you want to stay longer you need a non-immigrant visa, which you can extend in Thailand.

I was here last year on a non 'o' visa, I had crossed borders and aquired the 90 day entry on two occasions. I was due to leave Thailand in May but my wife was expecting so I canceled my departure to await the birth. My daughter was born at about 4:00am on the day my visa expired, I went to the local immigration office once they opened hoping to get a 30 day extension, which would have been sufficient for me. Even after explaining the situation and showing them photos of the baby, they would only give me 7 days leaving me to do another visa run, a 250km round trip the following week. Three weeks later I returned to UK. Thanks immigration!!

[topsecret]

Extraordinary. They obviously do not want foriegners here for any length of time, only long enough to drop their cash and piss off back home. It begs the question as to whether they really deserve to have us come visit their extraordinary country at all.

Not true Freddy. They had to do away with the '3 stamps in 180 days rule' as many legitimate tourists were getting caught out. This new 15 day rule is to stop the 'Cheap Charlie' falangs who use the Cambodia border for 'FREE' 30 day visa runs. I've never understood why anyone still does this when a trip back home to get a 12 month multiple B visa would not cost a great deal more (and a lot less hassle) than 12 boring visa runs per year to the charming town of Poipet.

If you're not prepared to pay for the appropriate visa to stay in Thailand, or you don't have the savvy on how to obtain a sponsor for one, then good riddance!

[Geekfreaklover]

The new rule will also affect people waiting for the paperwork from the Ministry of Education, it takes about 3-4 weeks in Bangkok so till recently those who applied right after their visa run were able to obtain the paperwork without the need to leave the country, now it compliactes things as they might have to make another visa run, or apply right after they arrive in the country to make sure they have at least 4 weeks left.

Staying in Thailand on an ED visa is a very good option for those interested in learning Thai. All you need is one extension at the local immigration office every 90 days. You can study at our school for years. No visa runs at all. I can assure you that you can trust our school, 8th year in business, we will not run away with your money like Areeya 'school' in Phuket. Come the the party on the 12th of December, Larrys Dive, Sukhumvit soi 22, starting at 8pm till very late. You will be able to talk to hundreds of students.

Mac

Walen School of Thai

Good subtle advertising.

But on a serious note - the ed visa must be a good serious option for many of the "riff raff" without visa farangs? - Are there any financial requirements other than the induction fee?