Abhisit Vejjajiva Elected New Prime Minister Of Thailand

[jdinasia]

There actually seem to be many people wishing Thailand ill right now .. hoping that the government fails etc. I can only think that none of those people have any real ties to Thailand

[MyphuketLife]

I hope the new PM well. Thailand needs a good leader, I hope he turns out to be just that.

[baht&sold]

^...And Baht and Sold will be continuing his tradition of welcoming all waifs and strays at his house for Christmas lunch

I'd prob even try to help you if I could and if you needed it (especially if at Christmas and alone).

Myphuketlife, the answers you seek are inherent, good luck, sincerely.

Edit/ self-moderated response

Edited December 17, 2008 by baht&sold

[permanent_disorder]

I stress that the following is purely anecdotal, but it does nevertheless form part of the picture. I have friends in Hong Kong and Kuala Lumpur with whom I chat online regularly; in the past weeks, four of them have asked me if I am "OK". They are graduates, generally well-informed and probably travel more than the average HK/KL people - yet their perception of the situation here from what they see/read is that it's just not safe to be in Thailand right now. It's untrue, of course - but that's the perception. One works for a major KL-based engineering company and stayed with me for a week in mid-November. After he returned to KL, he commented to me that he "got out just in time" - his company has suspended all travel for its employees to Thailand. As of last night, that travel ban is still in place. Do I think it's justified? No - but that's the perception they have.

it's not only the airport closure, the crisis going on much longer.

to lazy to add any statitics, but the asian visitors to thailand come in hugh numbers, and dropped in hugh numbers. tourist from china, korea, japan. and they are often forgotten, because they cross seldom their way with western tourists, are 3 hours earlier on the breakfast buffets, do more organized roundtrips, do more temple visits than beach bar party. got carried to others rip off souvenir and touri trash shops, play on other golf greens and don't get only double charged like the poor falang. and remember the pre coup PAD protests, full of hate against singapore. GET OUT singapore. a xenophobic mob, that aroused in other asians much bigger concerns as in westen eyes. PAD mob protest in front of the embassy and did their burn burn the effigy show. that was reason for the first travel warnings. the coup and tanks in the street, didn't help so much either. than this year protests again and travel warnings again in june, july. border scuffle with cambodia, the phuket airport , the besiege of the government house and the bloody night 2nd september, that scared our asian friends finally off. before the airport action lot of damage for the tourism industry was done already.

[MyphuketLife]

There actually seem to be many people wishing Thailand ill right now .. hoping that the government fails etc. I can only think that none of those people have any real ties to Thailand

I don't think anyone is wishing Thailand ill, I think you are misunderstanding posts. Just because some one says MR. T should go does not mean they wish Thailand ill

The same can be said for people that say what just happened was nothing more than a silent coupe. Or even those that say the newest of PM's should go. I don't think they are wishing the country ill, I think they have an opinion on the current politics happing in Thailand.

[jdinasia]

Yes I am sure you are correct ....

A party that committed electoral fraud was disbanded and the courts acted (way too slowly) on the EC's charges and that means a 'coupe' (sic)

The party that got the most votes in the last elections forms a government and that means a 'coupe' ... etc

Edited December 17, 2008 by jdinasia

[MyphuketLife]

Yes I am sure you are correct ....

A party that committed electoral fraud was disbanded and the courts acted (way too slowly) on the EC's charges and that means a 'coupe' (sic)

The party that got the most votes in the last elections forms a government and that means a 'coupe' ... etc

Buying the vote of people is just as bad as buying the vote of MPs

But agian you are reading into the post, I did not say it was a silent coupe did I?

Edited December 17, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[MyphuketLife]

^...And Baht and Sold will be continuing his tradition of welcoming all waifs and strays at his house for Christmas lunch

I'd prob even try to help you if I could and if you needed it (especially if at Christmas and alone).

Myphuketlife, the answers you seek are inherent, good luck, sincerely.

Edit/ self-moderated response

Thats what I thought..... You say doomsayers, in a few posts/responses.... Yet you can not provide one instance of said doomday speak on this thread....

[Plus]

The whole PAD debacle is entirely of the govt making - they should have tried to govern the country rather than mess with judiciary and consitution to save Thaksin's ass.

Back in January they have been warned many many times not to provoke political confrontation.

When they first raised Const amendments in March PAD had shown up, as predicted. Still the govt didn't give up on the idea and PAD was forced to up the ante by staging "live in" rally from May on. The govt still didn't give up, so it lost Govt House in August.

After Samak lost his post Somchai had a chance to back off and negotiate, but chose to order a brutal police crackdown on Oct 7.

He promised to step down if found responsible, but didn't follow up. Instead the govt tried to sneak const amendment in secret and PAD had no other options but physically block the parliament from holding the amendment session.

When PAD went to the airport to greet Somchai I bet they didn't have any plans to hold it and were surprised how it turned out. Excited Chamlong said that if he'd known how successful airport takeove would have been, he'd have done long ago.

The govt still didn't give in, Somchai fled to Chiang Mai instead of dropping Thaksin agenda. The courts were forced to act instead and on Friday, the third day of airport blocade, it was clear that PPP would face the music. It was high time for the govt to negotiate with PAD and free the airport, the govt had nothing to lose but the face.

They have weighed their options carefully - save the face or free the airport? Face came first.

The government is solely responsible before the public for starting the war with PAD and losing it so badly, and not doing anything to protect people affected by it.

The govt was not elected to fight this war, it didn't have a public mandate for it, they had been warned that consequences would be disastrous for the country, and they still went ahead and not only started it, but led it all the way to the dead end, dead end not only for themselves but for the country as well.

[TAWP]

There actually seem to be many people wishing Thailand ill right now .. hoping that the government fails etc. I can only think that none of those people have any real ties to Thailand

I don't think anyone is wishing Thailand ill, I think you are misunderstanding posts. Just because some one says MR. T should go does not mean they wish Thailand ill

The same can be said for people that say what just happened was nothing more than a silent coupe. Or even those that say the newest of PM's should go. I don't think they are wishing the country ill, I think they have an opinion on the current politics happing in Thailand.

Yes I am sure you are correct ....

A party that committed electoral fraud was disbanded and the courts acted (way too slowly) on the EC's charges and that means a 'coupe' (sic)

The party that got the most votes in the last elections forms a government and that means a 'coupe' ... etc

Buying the vote of people is just as bad as buying the vote of MPs

But agian you are reading into the post, I did not say it was a silent coupe did I?

No, you have never said that you think it was a silent coup, only that 'people' think so...and you just report it(?).

Other posters in your camp however HAVE said that it was a silent coup. Do you denounce their opinions?

[FatherF]

The whole PAD debacle is entirely of the govt making - they should have tried to govern the country rather than mess with judiciary and consitution to save Thaksin's ass.

Back in January they have been warned many many times not to provoke political confrontation.

When they first raised Const amendments in March PAD had shown up, as predicted. Still the govt didn't give up on the idea and PAD was forced to up the ante by staging "live in" rally from May on. The govt still didn't give up, so it lost Govt House in August.

After Samak lost his post Somchai had a chance to back off and negotiate, but chose to order a brutal police crackdown on Oct 7.

He promised to step down if found responsible, but didn't follow up. Instead the govt tried to sneak const amendment in secret and PAD had no other options but physically block the parliament from holding the amendment session.

When PAD went to the airport to greet Somchai I bet they didn't have any plans to hold it and were surprised how it turned out. Excited Chamlong said that if he'd known how successful airport takeove would have been, he'd have done long ago.

The govt still didn't give in, Somchai fled to Chiang Mai instead of dropping Thaksin agenda. The courts were forced to act instead and on Friday, the third day of airport blocade, it was clear that PPP would face the music. It was high time for the govt to negotiate with PAD and free the airport, the govt had nothing to lose but the face.

They have weighed their options carefully - save the face or free the airport? Face came first.

The government is solely responsible before the public for starting the war with PAD and losing it so badly, and not doing anything to protect people affected by it.

The govt was not elected to fight this war, it didn't have a public mandate for it, they had been warned that consequences would be disastrous for the country, and they still went ahead and not only started it, but led it all the way to the dead end, dead end not only for themselves but for the country as well.

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes, however, the chose to blatently flout the law with their actions regarding swampy etc. Why would any government listen to what amounts to no more than a bunch of would be activists, who (allegedly) do not even have a political wing?

They could have shown their decent via the ballot box! (It's called democracy!)

FF

[MyphuketLife]

There actually seem to be many people wishing Thailand ill right now .. hoping that the government fails etc. I can only think that none of those people have any real ties to Thailand

I don't think anyone is wishing Thailand ill, I think you are misunderstanding posts. Just because some one says MR. T should go does not mean they wish Thailand ill

The same can be said for people that say what just happened was nothing more than a silent coupe. Or even those that say the newest of PM's should go. I don't think they are wishing the country ill, I think they have an opinion on the current politics happing in Thailand.

Yes I am sure you are correct ....

A party that committed electoral fraud was disbanded and the courts acted (way too slowly) on the EC's charges and that means a 'coupe' (sic)

The party that got the most votes in the last elections forms a government and that means a 'coupe' ... etc

Buying the vote of people is just as bad as buying the vote of MPs

But agian you are reading into the post, I did not say it was a silent coupe did I?

No, you have never said that you think it was a silent coup, only that 'people' think so...and you just report it(?).

Other posters in your camp however HAVE said that it was a silent coup. Do you denounce their opinions?

I don't report it, I made a commit about others saying it.

I don't have a camp I don't believe in the PAD actions, nor the RED actions. All of my comments have been related to actions.

If Mr.T, Abhisist, or Some other person is PM is not my concern. I am talking about actions in all my posts.

Both sides have done wrong, but some fail to see that.

Do I denounce some ones opinion as to it being a silent coupe no I sure don't as I am inclined to agree

Edited December 17, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[MyphuketLife]

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes, however, the chose to blatently flout the law with their actions regarding swampy etc. Why would any government listen to what amounts to no more than a bunch of would be activists, who (allegedly) do not even have a political wing?

They could have shown their decent via the ballot box! (It's called democracy!)

FF

exactly. But one error in the post above they did create a political party, they just did not use it because they knew that they would not win the vote.... so taking seaports, airports, train, and all the other illegal actions they did was the only way for them to win, and the mere threat of doing so again is all they need to steer things their way in the future.

[jdinasia]

hmmm should I BOLD your name?

nah ....

What is distasteful about opposition forming a government?

So, I should think that Richard Lloyd Parry is somebody special? Based in Japan and quoting Giles with piles?

The OPINION piece you quote, besides being poorly constructed, is not all that accurate. But when you quote the extremists and the "cyber community" why worry about being accurate?

[TAWP]

Do I denounce some ones opinion as to it being a silent coupe no I sure don't as I am inclined to agree

So if you agree then it's your opinion as well. So attributing the quote to others and pulling a 'I didn't say it'-defence becomes fairly silly.

Now instead, with facts, point out why it was a silent coup and not following due process.

Make us all understand.

Edited December 17, 2008 by TAWP

[FatherF]

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes, however, the chose to blatently flout the law with their actions regarding swampy etc. Why would any government listen to what amounts to no more than a bunch of would be activists, who (allegedly) do not even have a political wing?

They could have shown their decent via the ballot box! (It's called democracy!)

FF

exactly. But one error in the post above they did create a political party, they just did not use it because they knew that they would not win the vote.... so taking seaports, airports, train, and all the other illegal actions they did was the only way for them to win, and the mere threat of doing so again is all they need to steer things their way in the future.

It is a shame then, that the same amount of organization, logistics, effort etc could not be put to better use via the Legal channels, instead of the more dictorial & illegal role they have adopted.

FF

[MyphuketLife]

No, you have never said that you think it was a silent coup, only that 'people' think so...and you just report it(?).

Other posters in your camp however HAVE said that it was a silent coup. Do you denounce their opinions?

Questions:

Is it ok to take 4 airports?

Is it ok to take the seaport?

Is it ok to shut down train service?

Is it ok to shoot at TV vans?

Is it ok to overtake a TV station?

Is it ok to throw bombs at people?

Is it ok to throw rocks at cars?

Is it ok to block the government voting?

Is it ok to kidnap police?

Is it ok to buy votes?

Is it ok to seek the advice of a guy that was banned from politics?

I simple yes / no would suffice not the they would have would not have depending on XYZ.... just yes no to the actions above.

[MyphuketLife]

Do I denounce some ones opinion as to it being a silent coupe no I sure don't as I am inclined to agree

So if you agree then it's your opinion as well. So attributing the quote to others and pulling a 'I didn't say it'-defence becomes fairly silly.

Now instead, with facts, point out why it was a silent coup and not following due process.

Make us all understand.

Inclined to agree and agreeing are two different things. I can see how one can think that it was a silent coupe given the fact the new guy is in power as direct result of the PAD's illegal action of closing swampy (something the police and army did not stop, or show signs they would ever stop the occupation of the airport)

[siam4ever]

Sounds like we've got a few farang that read too many newspapers and worse yet, believe what they read. You need to get out more, seek the divine, commune with nature, feel the gentle breeze against your skin and well, enjoy!

[TAWP]

No, you have never said that you think it was a silent coup, only that 'people' think so...and you just report it(?).

Other posters in your camp however HAVE said that it was a silent coup. Do you denounce their opinions?

Questions:

Is it ok to take 4 airports?

Is it ok to take the seaport?

Is it ok to shut down train service?

Is it ok to shoot at TV vans?

Is it ok to overtake a TV station?

Is it ok to throw bombs at people?

Is it ok to throw rocks at cars?

Is it ok to block the government voting?

Is it ok to kidnap police?

Is it ok to buy votes?

Is it ok to seek the advice of a guy that was banned from politics?

I simple yes / no would suffice not the they would have would not have depending on XYZ.... just yes no to the actions above.

If I reply to your posts, will you reply to mine that was posted BEFORE yours? Or are you going to continue to avoid all hard questions by posting trite counter-questions that is besides the point.

Really feel no need to answer them unless you first confirm that you will indeed respond to the questions posed to you.

[jdinasia]

No, you have never said that you think it was a silent coup, only that 'people' think so...and you just report it(?).

Other posters in your camp however HAVE said that it was a silent coup. Do you denounce their opinions?

Questions:

Is it ok to take 4 airports? (under some circumstances)

Is it ok to take the seaport? (ask in the UK -- hasn't happened here)

Is it ok to shut down train service? (yes-- strikes happen)

Is it ok to shoot at TV vans? (no)

Is it ok to overtake a TV station? (yes)

Is it ok to throw bombs at people? (no)

Is it ok to throw rocks at cars? (no)

Is it ok to block the government voting? (yes)

Is it ok to kidnap police? (ask some place that it happened)

Is it ok to buy votes? (no)

Is it ok to seek the advice of a guy that was banned from politics? (define advice -- and on what topic)

I simple yes / no would suffice not the they would have would not have depending on XYZ.... just yes no to the actions above.

ummmm

You are not being very honest in your arguments (I didn't say it ... but ..)

Do you think everything is black and white?

[TAWP]

Do I denounce some ones opinion as to it being a silent coupe no I sure don't as I am inclined to agree

So if you agree then it's your opinion as well. So attributing the quote to others and pulling a 'I didn't say it'-defence becomes fairly silly.

Now instead, with facts, point out why it was a silent coup and not following due process.

Make us all understand.

Inclined to agree and agreeing are two different things. I can see how one can think that it was a silent coupe given the fact the new guy is in power as direct result of the PAD's illegal action of closing swampy (something the police and army did not stop, or show signs they would ever stop the occupation of the airport)

You could argue that but you would be factually wrong!

We are where we are due to PPP being dissolved and Newin's faction separating himself from Thaksin for various reasons (someone that started happening months ago when he got the cold shoulder first and then was called upon to be supportive anyway).

[MyphuketLife]

If I reply to your posts, will you reply to mine that was posted BEFORE yours? Or are you going to continue to avoid all hard questions by posting trite counter-questions that is besides the point.

Really feel no need to answer them unless you first confirm that you will indeed respond to the questions posed to you.

look up two posts...

[Plus]

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes...

Not at all. They demanded the government following the laws and doing what is was consitutionally obliged to do - it's the right, and in fact the duty, of every responsible citizen.

You don't need to be win elections to demand that government upholds the rule of law.

If you mean "new politics" proposal, then yes, you have a point, but PAD didn't take over airports to install new politics.

Their fight is against Thaksin and his proxies, new politics is just an idea of a system that would prevent such political confrontations from happening in the first place.

[tig28]

hmmm should I BOLD your name?

nah ....

What is distasteful about opposition forming a government?

So, I should think that Richard Lloyd Parry is somebody special? Based in Japan and quoting Giles with piles?

The OPINION piece you quote, besides being poorly constructed, is not all that accurate. But when you quote the extremists and the "cyber community" why worry about being accurate?

Hi JD

Nah.... I wouldn't if I were you. Could it be that you don't hold these peoples opinions in high regard ------ weeeelllll ...... that is a supprise !! Perhaps that's why I suggested that you might consider that anothers opinion may be just as valid as your own. Oh ..... foolish --- foolish me. As you so eloquently phrased it.....

"nah ..."

[jdinasia]

If I reply to your posts, will you reply to mine that was posted BEFORE yours? Or are you going to continue to avoid all hard questions by posting trite counter-questions that is besides the point.

Really feel no need to answer them unless you first confirm that you will indeed respond to the questions posed to you.

look up two posts...

you didn't answer --- you just avoided answering .. again

Explain to us all how this was a silent 'coupe' (sic)

[jdinasia]

hmmm should I BOLD your name?

nah ....

What is distasteful about opposition forming a government?

So, I should think that Richard Lloyd Parry is somebody special? Based in Japan and quoting Giles with piles?

The OPINION piece you quote, besides being poorly constructed, is not all that accurate. But when you quote the extremists and the "cyber community" why worry about being accurate?

Hi JD

Nah.... I wouldn't if I were you. Could it be that you don't hold these peoples opinions in high regard ------ weeeelllll ...... that is a supprise !! Perhaps that's why I suggested that you might consider that anothers opinion may be just as valid as your own. Oh ..... foolish --- foolish me. As you so eloquently phrased it.....

"nah ..."

Why would I consider some reporter based in Japan that is repeating silliness as 'just as valid' as my own? I don't know if he's even been to Thailand and I certainly know better than to think that someone reporting what is said by the pro-trt 'cyber community' has any clue as to what is happening in Thailand.

[TAWP]

If I reply to your posts, will you reply to mine that was posted BEFORE yours? Or are you going to continue to avoid all hard questions by posting trite counter-questions that is besides the point.

Really feel no need to answer them unless you first confirm that you will indeed respond to the questions posed to you.

look up two posts...

Err...2 posts above 'this' (your post here) is jdinasia's reply and his answers to those questions.

How about you do it?

[FatherF]

Whilst i think that your post is well constructed, it does not detract from the fact that the PAD are not a political party, if the PAD had the balls to create a political party, get voted in to power, then they could ligitimately press for changes...

Not at all. They demanded the government following the laws and doing what is was consitutionally obliged to do - it's the right, and in fact the duty, of every responsible citizen.

You don't need to be win elections to demand that government upholds the rule of law.

If you mean "new politics" proposal, then yes, you have a point, but PAD didn't take over airports to install new politics.

Their fight is against Thaksin and his proxies, new politics is just an idea of a system that would prevent such political confrontations from happening in the first place.

I agree with your sentiments, i just don't agree with the way the PAD went about it!

FF

[MyphuketLife]

Is it ok to take 4 airports? (under some circumstances)

Is it ok to take the seaport? (ask in the UK -- hasn't happened here)

Is it ok to shut down train service? (yes-- strikes happen)

Is it ok to shoot at TV vans? (no)

Is it ok to overtake a TV station? (yes)

Is it ok to throw bombs at people? (no)

Is it ok to throw rocks at cars? (no)

Is it ok to block the government voting? (yes)

Is it ok to kidnap police? (ask some place that it happened)

Is it ok to buy votes? (no)

Is it ok to seek the advice of a guy that was banned from politics? (define advice -- and on what topic)

You are not being very honest in your arguments (I didn't say it ... but ..)

Do you think everything is black and white?

Either its illegal or not.

Under what circumstances is taking an airport ok?

You think taking over a TV station to silent the voice of poeple that oppose your actions is ok? So any news station that reports good things about PAD or report negitave about the REDs, it would be within the RED's right to overtake those news stations?

The train service was shut down because the PAD wanted it, it was not a strike, the employees were not fighting wage, or healthcare, or anything job related, so you can not honestly say it was a strike and not PAD supporters.

Kidnapping of police did happen here: happened here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=132378

I don't know the advice that was asked, but one can assume that the two politians were not talking about what flowers to plant in the garden. (although roses are nice )