There was a thread started in General about the lucky escape from the plane crash in the Hudson river that was closed, quite rightly, as it was not Thailand connected (amongst other reasons).

Well following this near disasterous event the following appeared in the UK Telegraph and I thought it worth posting for information and comment here in 47. We have many forum members who have flown aircraft and worked in the airline business so comments are most definately invited.

How to survive a plane crash

Following the New York plane crash in which 155 passengers and crew survived, Tim Jepson investigates the best ways to survive a plane crash, from choosing the right seat to avoiding smoke inhalation.

How to survive a plane crash? Well, you can be lucky, like the 155 passengers and crew of US Airways Flight 1549, the plane that crash-landed on New York's Hudson River yesterday, and enjoy a combination of luck, superlative flying and excellent staff training. Or you can take matters into your own hands.

Planes have always crashed. The first fatal accident occurred in 1908, just five years after the Wright brothers completed the earliest controlled, sustained and heavier-than-air flight. The pilot of the plane involved in the crash, in which one passenger died? Orville Wright himself.

But there are crashes and crashes. Some, patently, cannot be survived. Others, however – the vast majority, in fact – can be. A US government study found there were 568 plane crashes in the US between 1993 and 2000, involving a total of 53,487 passengers and crew. Of these, 51,207 – or over 90 per cent survived. Even on the 26 crashes deemed the worst, the study found that more than half the passengers and crew survived.

Contrary to popular statistical myth, however, air travel is not the safest form of transport – rail travel is safer in terms of accidents per journey and accidents per hour travelled (air travel wins only in accidents per mile travelled). But what is true, contrary to expectation, as the study reveals, is the survivability of most crashes. More to the point, the study found that a third of those who died – smoke and fire accounted for most deaths – would almost certainly have survived if they'd taken certain precautions.

So what are these precautions? Well, as you'd imagine, it's an imprecise science, heavy with claim and counter-claim, with some precautions rendered useless in certain crashes. But there are areas on which all agree. Here is a checklist that might just save your life.

HAVE A PLAN

This is the key. Time and again, having a notion of what you are going to do in the event of a crash or forced landing has been found to be fundamental to survival. First, really do listen to the safety announcement and read the safety card, and if you don't, then at the very least know exactly where to find the nearest exits. Actually count the number of rows from your seat to exits in front and behind you – the chances are you might be trying to find your way to an exit in pitch dark and/or thick smoke.

Bear in mind that – unforuntately – you may have several minutes' warning before impact, so use the time to go through any plan again.

THE SAFEST SEATS

Exits seats, usually, though when it comes to crashes, there's more anecdotal, fanciful and other information regarding the safest seats on a plane than almost any other. Boeing's website says that "one seat is as safe as another", as do www.airsafe.com and the United States' Federal Aviation Adminstration, among others.

Popular opinion, however, has it that rear seats are safer, though there's a vocal online minority that claims over-wing seats are best, because the plane is "stronger" at that point.

Crashes vary, and sometimes the only people to survive are those at the front; in other crashes survivors are over the wing. But in 2007, Popular Mechanics magazine looked at all crashes since 1971 for which seat survival data was available and found that those in rear seats (behind the wing's trailing edge) were indeed safer – survival rates were 69 per cent as opposed to 56 per cent over the wing and 49 per cent for those at the front of the plane.

BRACE

Like the safest seats, this is a contentious area. Internet conspiracy theorists claim the recommended brace positions (which themselves have varied over the years) are those guaranteed to break your neck and back most successfully – a deliberate ploy, they claim, to make your death quick and painless as possible and reduce insurance costs.

Others – less ludicrously – point out that one of the two recommended brace positions is impossible for anyone in economy seat, where the space in front of you is simply insufficient to adopt the suggested position. It's worth noting that some think the recommended brace positions don't make much sense, and that you should sit up straight and push against the seat in front of you.

In any event, you are trying to do three basic things by bracing. Get your torso as low as possible to reduce the jacknife effect at impact; stop yourself from flying forward and hitting the seat or other parts of the aircraft interior; and preventing injury to your legs and ankles that will hinder your escape from the aircraft.

PROTECTION

The last is pertinent: after the M1 Kegworth crash of 1989 (when 79 of the 126 people on board survived), many victims and survivors were found to have legs broken below the knee, the result of their legs flying into, or being forced against the seat structure in front of them.

Therefore hold your legs and/or place feet flat on the floor, preferably farther back than your knees, and place hand luggage under the seat in front of you to act as a cushion or check.

If you can, add additional protection for your head – a pillow, say. Be sure that you have removed any dentures, pencils or other sharp objects from around your person. Also be sure to hold the brace position until the plane has come to a standstill – often there will be additional impacts after the initial one.

SEATBELTS

One of the strangest findings of research into crashes and passenger behaviour is that over and over again people struggled with what you'd imagine would be the easiest of tasks – undoing their seatbelts. The reason is that in times of stress people revert to learned, normal behaviour and when it comes to seatbelts normal and instinctive means a car seatbelt. Following a crash, investigators found that many people scrabbled around to find the push-button release on their belts, as this is the release with which they were most familiar. Aircraft seatbelts unbuckle.

As for the belt itself, pull it as tight as possible. For every inch of slack you are increasing the potential G-forces to which you'll be subjected.

NEGATIVE PANIC

After a crash, speed is of the essence, as is calm. But a frequent stress reaction is what is known as "negative panic", whereby people remain seated and immobile, as if in a trance, stunned by events. The same can apply to aircraft crew, who, despite their rigorous training, may also be stunned and fail to react.

One of the keys to survival can be to listen to, and follow crews' instructions, but if they or your immediate neighbours appear to be in a trance, then you have to make your own moves and decisions. In a similar vein, stunned passengers were often found to have remained seated waiting for instructions that, for whatever reason, didn't come. Move.

SMOKE INHALATION

Fire is a main cause of death in most survivable crashes, but smoke is worse. Even a few breaths that draw in smoke can result in loss of consciousness. If possible wet a handkerchief, or other piece of material – the seatback headrest, for example – to cover your nose and mouth. If no water is available, use urine. This is a matter of life and death – it's no time to be fastidious.

LOW TO THE GROUND?

In a smoke-filled plane, some sources suggest you keep low to the floor as there's likely to be less smoke at floor level. Wrong. The chances are you'll simply be trampled, crushed or suffocated under luggage, falling bodies and the rush of other passengers. Keep your head down, mouth and nose covered but stay on two feet. Climb over seat backs if gangways are blocked.

HANDS-FREE

People do the most remarkable things after crashes, one of the strangest of which is trying to retrieve some, or all of their possessions. For goodness' sake – leave them. You don't have time, the possessions will slow you (and others) down, and you will need both hands free, whether it's to remove obstacles, hold a pad over your nose and mouth or fight off the flailing fists of others.

This said, don't push (you want get through any faster) or lash out yourself – you'll slow everything and everyone down and invite retaliation: and in a stressful fight-and-flight situation such as a crash, people find extraordinary strength – you could be knocked out or otherwise injured.

MOVE FAST

The "golden period" for escape lasts only up to about two minutes. Listen to flight attendants, get to an exit fast, check quickly that it is viable, inside and out, then get out and move as far from the plane as fast as possible. And whether you stop to help others? Well, that is up to you, and to the reserves of courage and fellow feeling you may or may not have. Who knows what we will do in extremis?

Using urine to wet the seat headrest is a good idea, as is prior preperation. Off to Thailand at the weekend, I'll report on the reaction of the crew !!!!

Using urine to wet the seat headrest is a good idea, as is prior preperation. Off to Thailand at the weekend, I'll report on the reaction of the crew !!!!

Yes, I did raise an eyebrow at that one but I suppose if the plane is going down you'll be p1ssing your self anyway so there will be no shortage of the necessary liquid.

Good stuff to explain to the wife why it is essential to have that tenth can of beer on the flight........" But darling if we are going down and I've not had enough to drink, how will I be able to piss on your headrest ? "

Strategy to survive a plane crash number one:

Have a really dam_n good pilot.

Or a parachute

There is a very crude joke about always sitting next to a very nice Jamaican lady as they always find the black box.......I for one will not reapeat it.

Oh good...

I read in one of the papers that the Airbus in the crash was 'designed to seal itself' if in a crash. Any airplane experts explain how that works please?

I read in one of the papers that the Airbus in the crash was 'designed to seal itself' if in a crash. Any airplane experts explain how that works please?

All the escape exits jam shut ????

Yes !!

That's it.............Same principle as a Thai Disco.

Ooooh, suiging, sometimes you just go too far. Even though that's what many of us were thinking!

Strategy to survive a plane crash number one:

Have a really dam_n good pilot.

A friend of mine once confided that he would never fly with an Arab airline. "If the plane is in bother I want a man up front fighting tooth and nail to get down in one piece. What I don't want is some nutter kneeling on a prayer mat beating his head on the floor."

The same guy advised me that if a country's name ends in 'stan it's a sh1t hole.

I wouldn't describe him as one of the greatest proponents of political correctness.

I would say that he often gave good advice.

I don't think any aircraft seals itself on a crash they're just designed to be airtight anyway otherwise they could not be pressurised. But it is lucky they didn't get the rear emergency doors open or it would have gone down to the river bed in double quick time.

I think the most sure fire way to survive a plane crash is not to be there when it happens.

The article omits the George Costanza survival principle; bolt for the nearest exit and don't care whose heads you have to trudge over to get to it.

But if (for a wee moment) I can be forgiven an 'outside the box' attack, I was under the impression that the first thing that went when planes hit bodies of water was the engines & wings, leaving (I would imagine) gaping holes. Aside from that, there are always risks of fire from various causes - a crash probably being up there amongst them (but electrical and other problems also being issues). So, I don't know about this self-sealing bit. This is not being confused with the fact that planes self-seal in flight, is it?

The article omits the George Costanza survival principle; bolt for the nearest exit and don't care whose heads you have to trudge over to get to it.

But if (for a wee moment) I can be forgiven an 'outside the box' attack, I was under the impression that the first thing that went when planes hit bodies of water was the engines & wings, leaving (I would imagine) gaping holes. Aside from that, there are always risks of fire from various causes - a crash probably being up there amongst them (but electrical and other problems also being issues). So, I don't know about this self-sealing bit. This is not being confused with the fact that planes self-seal in flight, is it?

Correct, planes are sealed air tight, exactly how "air tight" they are I don't know but they probably have small leaks here and there, in flight but usually rip great big holes in them when they ht the deck. But if you could land one, not a seaplane, on water without punching holes in it theoretically it would float for a good long time anyway. However hitting water at around 300mph is very similar to hitting the ground without the sparks.

As for your George Costanza (<deleted> is G. C.?) theory I think statistically speaking more people survive if they think only of them selves. Until, that is, the majority are thinking only of themselves and then the survival curve dips downward.

Yes, some planes are leakier than others... MY GC reference was to an episode of Seinfeld where, upon detection of smoke, he bolted out of an apartment packed with women and children, bowling a few over on the way. Everyone is familiar with every episode of Seinfeld, are they not?

I read in one of the papers that the Airbus in the crash was 'designed to seal itself' if in a crash. Any airplane experts explain how that works please?

To an extent there is some truth in this media statement but not 100% correct as would seem the case with all media coverage reports of anything aviation related that is not verified by a professional in the field before publication.

. The plane itself will not do anything. The pilots will select "Ditch Mode" which is a process that when selected will close all the "Holes" in the airplane ie Aircon. inlets, Pressurisation outflow valves. avionics cooling outflows etc.

This basically slows the ingest of water into the airplane not completely but buys some extra time (maybe 5min additional floatage but it is still valuable time). All commercial airliners will do this if they have time before ditching by either selecting each valve closed individually or in the A320 case above automatically by selecting the ditch mode.....

Job well done by both those guys tho - textbook - pretty sure that when the data is released it will be used as a training aid for pilot training/recurrent training as one of the VERY few successful ditching's of a modern commercial airliner.

The amazing part of the story is that the aircraft remained intact (aside from engines). Here's an interesting one from 1956:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,867172,00.html

I have no need for an anorak in the tropics.....

There is a very crude joke about always sitting next to a very nice Jamaican lady as they always find the black box.......I for one will not reapeat it.

Very good Suiging!

The amazing part of the story is that the aircraft remained intact (aside from engines). Here's an interesting one from 1956:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,867172,00.html

Indeed I heard the Hudson pilot not only saved everybody on board, but they even managed to tow the aircraft off for retrieval!

Well, to sum up, I think many men and this pilot would agree: Birds often cause us conflict.

Birds often cause us conflict.

Never a truer word said. BTW, how's your flock ? Still cooing doves I hope, and not turned into vultures.

I suppose that we all wonder how it is that bird strike doesn't cause more grief to the aviation industry. Two things come to mind:

1. There is a vid clip (probably on Utube, but not worth searching for) that shows a maintenance guy near one of the engines of a commercial jet. He gets sucked in and goes right through it... and survives. Believe it? Neither do I - how could it be true? But, it is portrayed as factual. (I think the clip was from the TV show 'Ripley's Believe It Or Not' or similar.) Of course, it would not have done a lot for the condition of the engine either.

2. On one of the Air Crash Investigation shows on the NatGeo channel, they were showing and explaining how jet engines are designed and built to be able to withstand bird strike. Yet the incident in question took out both engines. (Perhaps the handbook cautions pilots that bird strikes must be confined to sparrows and smaller...)

I understand that there is considerable airflow behind the fan blades that misses the engine - just flows round in empty space and out the back. But obviously some air goes through the engine to assist combustion. I would expect that most bitds that get through the blades will be sucked through the free sace.

But the problem is - getting through the blades. Big birds don't.

When the airplane gets to it's cfuising altitude it will be bird-strike free, as there ain't no birds up there.

This is a take-pff / landing problem and is troublesome at all airports except in Antarctica, 'cos penguins don't fly.

Chorus - Big birds don't fly (Four Seasons)

Yes, I haven't seen too many geese casually flap past at 38,000 feet, Humph!

I understand that there is considerable airflow behind the fan blades that misses the engine - just flows round in empty space and out the back. But obviously some air goes through the engine to assist combustion. I would expect that most bitds that get through the blades will be sucked through the free sace.

But the problem is - getting through the blades. Big birds don't.

When the airplane gets to it's cfuising altitude it will be bird-strike free, as there ain't no birds up there.

This is a take-pff / landing problem and is troublesome at all airports except in Antarctica, 'cos penguins don't fly.

Chorus - Big birds don't fly (Four Seasons)

what happened to your spell-checker?

1. There is a vid clip (probably on Utube, but not worth searching for) that shows a maintenance guy near one of the engines of a commercial jet. He gets sucked in and goes right through it... and survives. Believe it? Neither do I - how could it be true? But, it is portrayed as factual. (I think the clip was from the TV show 'Ripley's Believe It Or Not' or similar.) Of course, it would not have done a lot for the condition of the engine either.

It was a military jet on a carrier.

Thanks for pointing out the spell check facility Raro - I hadn't been aware of it. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be available when one uses 'fast reply'? (It could save me quite a lot of bother if it were.)

E: Thanks for posting the clip, Cuban - yes, that's the one.

With regard to the 'brace' position, I was under the impression that passengers are instructed to do this in the event of an accident NOT to help you survive but to protect your teeth as they are the easiest way to identify the bodies after a crash.

Have a nice trip

Dave

^They may have difficulty identifying a mouth full of knee cap.

I believe the preserving teeth for post mortum identification and other 'story' that the brace postion is designed to ensure death, thus avoid passenger survival with life long disabling injuries giving rise to law suits for medical care that the airlines would have to pay, are urban legends.

And I'm sure the image below may be photoshopped.