So if we are to pursue reintegration, Moss (and it seems support is growing for the idea), it may pay you (as prime mover) to PM George as to what material he would like from you/us in order to consider the matter. (He may well indicate that he is unlikely to support the proposal.)

Getting back to the matter at hand, it was Robski who was the prime mover in establishing OTB. It would be nice to hear from him, but he hasn't posted since 19 December

He is on a trek around SE Asia, last I heard in Pattaya, but I will contact him for his opinion.

George gave the final approval. I don't know what would be reqired to have the two reintegrated, but I dare say it would include the need for some fairly persuasive argument by a clear majority of Bedlam regulars.

I would like to hear from some more people, perhaps Old Croc, Jai Dee, Jangles, SBK, Scu, Sib, Boo, and all who contribute into Bedlam.

So waddya think, c'mon Jaidee we don't see a lot of you nowadays in here, throw us a comment.

Moss

Seconded. I think that input from the mod regulars here, as to their perspectives, would be particularly useful.

I'll vote against it now, simply because it's a waste of time if some regular contributors won't use it on principal.

The reason for my original support was that it offered an opportunity to discuss a serious topic without someone making a farce out of it.

So if that's what people want, so be it.

Is there some way of adding a poll here? Or does a new topic have to be started?

You're confusing me Moss. You want my opinion?

I thought I was the one guy you had a falling out with.

I'll vent my thoughts when I can sort out a way to say them without misbehaving.

I thought I was the one guy you had a falling out with.

Crickey, when did that happen?

Don't get me wrong folks, I still like the separate forum as I took on board Robski's point about some serious threads becoming a laugh TOO soon, ie when the op still wanted serious debate. That said, if they were joined together I wouldn't be that bothered.

Well, since you did ask for mod input, I have looked at the number of potential Bedlam inmates- which currently stands just shy of 800, minus the dead or the banned. Currently, the vote quorum stands at 15 votes, which is just shy of 2% of potential voters- and not all of those are for changing the forum. Considering that Admin will have to go through some effort to make this change, I find it odd that you would consider little reaction based on this (so far) very small response so frustrating...

A more relevant standard would be the number of actual posters and an even better benchmark would be the regular posters, an altogether difficult search to complete I would hazard a guess and so although it is a relevant gauge, it is useless in its import.

While Rob (who was the driving force behind the concept as far as we know) was advocating creating the sub forum, I can't recall anyone in opposition to the concept stating that they would never use Bedlam again if OTB was added in it's present form.

The sub was requested, it was evaluated, approved and created by George in compliance with the wishes of the members. Simply "making forums and sub-forums disappear" once they are indexed is not done at the snap of the fingers also.

But in closing, it's not the "moderators who have spoken"....it was the members. They were heard loud and clear and responded to in regards to their stated desire.

I read the original thread today and although there were dissenting posts, no one stated they would abstain from the sub-forum, something I am glad of, it would show petulance and that is counter productive.

But can I make myself clear, if I haven't up to now, I am pleased that a suggestion was aired and comments ensued, from that a new forum was born, I just think that amongst other things, it hasn't gone the way that perhaps it should, a cryptic sentence I understand, but very deliberate.

If it is difficult to undertake an assimilation, even if the consensus agreed and George was arsed to do so, I now vote against as it would possibly preclude any further input for change however valid, anyway it has only been going for a mere six months, it has ample time to evolve.

To your final line Buckwheat, I agree that it was not down to the Mods but it would have been good for their input, something they have now done and I reiterate, I would still vote for integration if simple, but if a pain, let it be.

I think the reasoning was that although bedlam allowed that already, it was a good way to have all the more serious discussions in one location, separate from the rest of bedlam where theres more banter and relaxation. sounds like a logical reason. and the forum owner responded to the wish of members.

on another note more relevant to your topic - perhaps I missed it, but why do you think there is a need for the 2 subforums to be combined?

The forum was initially devised because it was thought that threads were either morphed into the usual Bedlam infancy or dropped off the page too quickly, I will add that the more serious threads I started generally travelled well enough and they only dropped off because they had little interest, however I accept I gave tacit agreement.

But to answer your latter question Miggy, the impetus behind trying to reintegrate the forums was several fold and differing posters had contrasting views, I thought that there was a certain amount of

pseudo-intellectual bullying has been a problem, along with a certain amount of condescending clap trap,

to para phrase an earlier post, also to a certain degree a select few individuals thought it was a forum to let loose and not be carried out in a more calm atmosphere, although I like a 'frank exchange of views', alongside anybody else, I try not to be rude.

Whereas, when it was a single forum the mix was far better, anyway I have made my point over several threads.

The consensus shouts for the status quo and if it involves considerable change, I concede.

Perhaps the answer is to show more consideration for others point of view.

In the words of Robert Emmett, I have done.

Good Luck

Moss

Last week I was about to post regarding the ongoing nature of Outside the Box and its effect on Bedlam as a whole, but in particular the import it had had on Bedlam as a stand alone unit.

Naam has beaten me to it, but what it does show is that perhaps more than one has a similar opinion, Bedlam has been dumbed down to a level that far exceeds its previous incarnation, as Bedlam, not the VIP or whatever.

So it leads me to ask, has it degenerated, in my opinion of course, because of Outside the Box, or is it just a natural decline, as in any structural graphic, rise-plateau-fall, or will there be an injection of some other process that can bring about a new dawn.

no it has not Moss. a few days ago i didn't even know that Outside the Box existed and when i got the link i expected to find something as interesting as Bedlam was 2 years ago. it was a sad thing going through the first thread i clicked on which started with a simple statement and developed with the next posting into a variety of monologuish derogative statements smearing people and their religion. that applies to some other threads too. ridiculously the afore-mentioned posters all raved about personal experience whereas the mistakes they made revealed that they had no <deleted> idea except the ones bred in their brains.

what is left to discuss in other threads is hardly worth a mouseclick. all said of course in my [not so] humble opinion.

Since I've been invited to contribute my 2 cents worth....

I'd like to see OSTB gone, if only for the reason that I dislike having to switch between sub-forums to see who's posted what.

On a more serious note I prefer that even on the serious topics there is some humour sprinkled in with the discussion. If that's more likely to happen in a single Bedlam forum then I'm in favour of that. Humour does not prevent a serious discussion from being conducted.

Actually, I don't regard internet forums in general as being the best place to conduct deep and meaningful discussion...isn't that bars were invented for ?

To put it simply, the segmentation of Bedlam into separate serious and frivolous sub-forums doesn't add up.....the sum of each separate sub-forum does not add up to Bedlam when it was whole.

I won't deny that the relative seriousness of OSTB may give posters there greater intellectual satisfaction but at the expense of the dumbing down of the general Bedlam forum. Depending on what weighting may be applied between OSTB and Bedlam it might be found that the overall satisfaction of all Bedlam posters declined, hence my "sum doesn't equal the whole" viewpoint.

Of course, there's nothing to prevent so-called serious topics from being posted in the regular asylum. Those who would prefer a single Bedlam will probably do so, with all of the privileges attending such posts (including moving entirely off topic before the end of the first page). Yep, good idea!

Thats what appealed to em too, a serious discussion which got led horribly but amusingly off topic.. this is why I rarely visit here these days... bedders just lost a certain something when ostb started..

bedders just lost a certain something when ostb started..

You know, I agree

Why are you reopening this <deleted>?

I can't believe it's 9 months since my last "posts deleted" and "official warning issued".

I must be getting old.

Why are you reopening this <deleted>?

I can't believe it's 9 months since my last "posts deleted" and "official warning issued".

I must be getting old.

Would it have anything to do with your born again sobriety?

Why are you reopening this <deleted>?

Because I chose too

I understand you are acting cranky recently, but still no need to spread it across every thread

Well... pick on a feller youse two.

I've already admitted to getting old, do you want me to mellow as well?

I believe the Outside the box sub forum could be a place for people that are able to let go of all their conventional wisdom and be open to discuss a different reality. But very often these kind of discussions end up in religious believes and who is right or wrong.

I tried to start a discussion about forced abortion or freedom from the thread Harcourt started but it seems you are not interested.

So what is it that you like to discuss?

Although I am sometimes in a serious mood, when I log on to ThaiVisa it is usually to relax and forget the stresses of y day.

I basically contribute to Pattaya Forum and Bedlam - many fora I have never even tried to open.

Sometimes I will drift into 'Outside the Box' - usually on a rest-day - and try to be serious, but the rest of the time I treat this web-site as an alternative to going down the pub and enjoying the craic.

So i am fairly content with things the way they are, although I do not contribute to 'Last Words' or similar threads - albeit some of Cuban's puzzles have been interesting, if (to me) obscure.

Although I contribute to other web-sites similar to TV, this is my main 'home' when working in all those strange countries that seem to draw my into their strange gearts.

What he said.

Ditto = TLW.

While I haven't posted much of anything the last 2 years I started posting in Bedders since it was only 18 pages in length. Back in the days when dam_n near every thread was hijacked by the political contingent of posters. That kept a lot of members disinterested from visiting (not me, though, since I contributed as well . . . as it was fun to knock each other around a bit). Once that crowd diminished due to a few bans and drop outs the inmates took full control. It was truly riotous and insane, inane.

Serious threads were not too common, and as it is well documented most were hijacked after only a few posts by the Bedlam nutters, of which I was (and still am) a proud member. I lost track of how Bedders evolved after early 2007 and since rejoining these past few months I was rather pleased to see Outside the Box as a sub forum. While Bedders was (and still is) a fine amusement to enjoy yourself seriousness didn't take too well at that time. Many established members would pop in now and again and complain about the inanity.

And yet it was more than obvious that the inmates here were a clever bunch of rascals, bless 'em all, as it takes intelligence to be truly witty. We did have some good serious threads. Personally, I don't mind a line of demarcation between seriousness and fun. It shouldn't detract from the main forum. Bedders has always been what the denizens make it and it will always continue to evolve. It all works fine as long as there's no disruption in the supply of meds.

The need to pose this question in Bedders proper in order to get a decent range of responses speaks volumes and sort of answers the question.

^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, that.